I finally have some time at least a half hour so will get this longwinded
post sent to the list.

Many of you that know me personally know I make a large part of my living
from breeding birds. I have been a professional aviculturist for more years
then I care to mention. One of the things I learned many years ago was that
you never can really outguess what animals/birds like and just when you think
you have them figured out you don't!

For eons it seemed, bird breeders always built elaborate aviaries for their
birds and lavished heaps of room and other percieved needs on them in order
to get them to breed. It was an accepted norm that birds needed flight room
in order to be happy and feel free enough to breed in captivity. In the 60's
a man in South Florida decided to look at this aspect of aviculture and noted
that many prs of birds he was familiar with bred just fine in smaller and
more enclosed cages in fact many of the then bred parrots were confined to
smaller quarters. Those really were the dark ages back then, it all seems so
long ago now! In any event he began testing his theory about smaller
enclosures, etc., and began to have far more luck in breeding and keeping his
rare birds. After many years of gaining experience his method for rearing
birds has now become the "norm" with most folks and the old attitudes and
ideas are now a thing of the past!

About five or six years ago I spoke to a fellow in the eastern part of the
United States, who kept and professed to have amazing luck keeping
Chameleons. He had several rather unique ideas that seemed really off the
wall but I listened anyway. After telling me that he bred regularly in small
plastic cages he made from containers and old shower stalls I was sure the
guy was full of B.S.! Over time I would observe animals in the wild as well
as captivity and noticed that many many species of Chams just do not seem to
need or want a lot of space as we always thought they did. I would observe
wild fischeri and rudis in Tanzania staying in the same trees in the same
branches for weeks at a time. all their needs seemed to be right where they
were!
I began to put the pieces of this all together and decided to test my theory
starting around three years ago. I went to Walmart and purchased the 64 quart
sized storage bins. These are milky plastic sided containers with green/blue
heavy plastic lids used to store blankets and other materials in. I wanted to
use the same sized container for different test species to see what the
perameters would be.
I cut the end of each container out leaving a 2 inch edge for fastening 1/4
inch wire cloth to by riveting the edges under strips of plastic. Only one
end was cut out along with a three inch wide strip on top to allow airflow
and lighting to get into the container. I affixed climbing branches inside
each container as well as placed a potted vining plant in each for cover etc.
I originally made six containers and then placed one of each of the following
in them:
C deremensis male
C deremensis female
C jacksoni male
C jacksoni female
C. rudis female
C melleri full-grown male
C.pardalis male.

I later made up more containers and added two more pardalis as well as a side
striped and one Flap Necked Chameleon.

I kept the animals in these containers for a period of up to six months and
still have one old male deremensis still in its original container nearly
three years later! I know Steve and Chad have seen this animal here at the
house.

What I found out from this experiment is this. Chameleons do not need roomy
enclosures to live and thrive in fact they seem to calm down and feel right
at home in these containers. Only one animal seemed to not like the enclosure
at first and then later quieted down. I also have seen animals that seemed to
me to be very secure and not nearly as schitzy like you will often see in a
screened enclosure. Even the fully grown melleri did fine in what was pretty
cramped quarters and when I do this again I will definitely use a larger
enclosure for the larger species.

The advantages to me seem to outweigh any perceived disadvantages at this
time. This isn't for everybody no doubt but for us who keep multiple animals
and need controlled environments that the animals can be watered and fed
easily in, this solves a lot of caging problems. The containers are cheap and
you can construct one in a matter of half an hour or so.

I kept my little experiment pretty quiet at first till I was sure I was onto
something. Once I became convinced that Chameleons actually prefer more
enclosed defensible territories I began asking others to run the same
experiment and see what they found.
Two people decided to go along and I believe this group would like to hear
what they say about their experimenting with these containers also. Both Bill
Strand and Joaquin Alameda have worked with the concept and I know in Bills
case he has done a lot more experimenting with lighting and various vertical
and horizontal aspects of the cage system. When I saw Bills setup I was very
impressed by the quality of his caging as well as the animals were all in
perfect shape and seemed totally happy in what some would view as pretty
cramped quarters. I am not sure if Onelist allows attachments or not but Bill
has sent me pictures of his setups that others here might be interested in
seeing. Bill are your reading this and willing to pitch in here and describe
what you have found so far with this caging system? I welcome any comments.

Don