I have had very healthy happy discus for the past 4 months they have
been thriving and growing.  This morning I found one of them swimming
with its head tilted down, mouth moving rapidly, jerky fins and tail
movements almost like it was struggling to keep itself down in the
water.  Any advice?

Water parameters are all good.

Yes, it's the only cichlid endemic to India.  E. maculatus and E. suratensis are
found in Sri Lanka as well as India.

I collected the species at its type locality about 4 months ago.  It's
distribution appears to be very limited.  I collected it in Kumaradhara River
(called Netravathi River down river by the city of Mangalore).  If you are in
India to collect specimens, go to Mangalore.  In and around the Netravathi delta
in Mangalore, you will see a lot of E. suratensis and E. maculatus in brackish
water.  There are no E. canarensis in brackish water - only is very soft,
freshwater.  Get a car and drive 50 km inland towards Bangalore.  The type
locality is on the Mangalore-Bangalore highway.  Easy to get to - this concerns
me from an conservation perspective.  The village is called Uppinangudi.  There
is a newly consturcted bridge across the river in Uppinangudi.  It's tough to
get to the river at the bridge but if you stop about a mile before the bridge,
you can access the river and collect the all three species of Etroplus within a
half mile stretch.  E. canarensis were guarding eggs in the rocky areas of the
river in December.  I took a lot of digital images of females guarding eggs.  In
December while E. canrensis is guarding eggs, E. maculatus parents are guarding
1-2 month old juveniles and E. suratensis fingerlings are almost 2-3 months old.
Breeding seems to be staggered by a month.   April-May should be a good time to
observe juvenile E. canarensis - low water before the monsoons.  Even in the
type locality, the fish is not very common.

There a many west-flowing rivers to the south of Netravathi in north Kerala and
to the north in south Karnataka that could possibly have this species as well. 
I desperately hope that this species is distributed in those rivers as
well...because in another 20-30 years, the type locality will be urbanized by
the expanding city limits of Mangalore.  I spoke to Indian fisheries biologists
at the local unversity in Mangalore (scientists specializing in Etroplus) and
they had NO CLUE about E. canarensis in their backyard.  It's a shame.  They
better step up.  If I didnt have to get back to my work/responsibilities in
California, I would have spent a couple of weeks exploring the mid-sections of
neighboring rivers.  It's taken the rediscovery of this species to bring
attention to the ichyofauna of this area.  NO ONE had explored these areas for
almost 150 years since Francis DAY in the 1850s!!  I found what I belive is an
undescribed Garra sp. and an undescribed Danio sp. as well.

From my email communications with Indian hobbyists, the fish is occasionally
available in aquarium stores in Banagalore and Chennai.

Hope that helps.

Vin Kutty
Chatsworth, CA
kutty at earthlink dot net


-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Hanneman <primarypredator@...>
Sent: Apr 13, 2004 9:24 AM
To: cichlidexpeditions@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [cichlidexpeditions] Fwd: [American_Cichlid_Association] Indian
cichlids--esp. Etroplus canarensis (cross-post)

Anyone?


Begin forwarded message:

> From: "janthina" <janthina@...>
> Date: April 12, 2004 10:05:37 PM PDT
> To: American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [American_Cichlid_Association] Indian cichlids--esp. Etroplus
> canarensis (cross-post)
> Reply-To: American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com
>
> (Please excuse if you've seen this several times, i'm cross-posting
>  in an attempt to get the speediest replies.)
>
>  Hello--
>
>  I am trying to find information on south Indian cichlids,
>  particularly Etroplus canarensis, as i think it's the only endemic.
>  This info will help with a book currently in the works on the
>  wildlife (focusing on endemics and biodiversity) of the Western Ghats
>  of southwest India.
>
>  Is anyone keeping Indian cichlids in the U.S.? If so, would you be
>  willing to share info and/or allow us to possibly photograph your
>  fish? Even better, do you know where to collect these fish for on-
>  site photography (followed by immediate release) in India? I've heard
>  canarensis is found in a very small, hard-to-find locality. Or
>  perhaps you know of an aquarist in south India who is raising them?
>
>  I greatly appreciate any info you can pass along. Thanking you in
>  advance,
>
>  Cara
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>  ?  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
>  
>  ? 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  ? 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
Cichlids Rule!

Eric Hanneman PhD
Managing Editor
Buntbarsche Bulletin
American Cichlid Association

541-342-6968

(Please excuse if you've seen this several times, i'm cross-posting
in an attempt to get the speediest replies.)

Hello--

I am trying to find information on south Indian cichlids,
particularly Etroplus canarensis, as i think it's the only endemic.
This info will help with a book currently in the works on the
wildlife (focusing on endemics and biodiversity) of the Western Ghats
of southwest India.

Is anyone keeping Indian cichlids in the U.S.? If so, would you be
willing to share info and/or allow us to possibly photograph your
fish? Even better, do you know where to collect these fish for on-
site photography (followed by immediate release) in India? I've heard
canarensis is found in a very small, hard-to-find locality. Or
perhaps you know of an aquarist in south India who is raising them?

I greatly appreciate any info you can pass along. Thanking you in
advance,

Cara

Ethan,

An ichthyologist that specializes in systematics will
need to collect wild caught samples or look at
preserved specimens of both Placidochromis phenochilus
and the fish Ad considers Placidochromis sp.
"phenochilus" found in Tanzania.  If the
investigations yields differences beyond appearance
then the Tanzanian fish will be given a new species
name.  If not then the Tanzanian fish is color morph
of Placidochromis phenochilus.
To my knowledge, there is no scientist performing such
research.

Bob Randall
--- blackdiode <blackdiode@...> wrote:
> Curiosity and anticipation strike.
>
> What is the status of the Placidochromis phenochilus
> 'Tanzania?' I had a short correspondence with Ad
> Konings last year (via email) whom believed this
> splotchy variety was a separate species from the
> traditional P. phenochilus. I've been anticipating
> an
> actual rename and have seen nothing added via BIOSYS
> for this genus.
>
> If this is true the featured fish in BB 197 (April
> 2000) is actually of the yet-to-be-named
> species/subspecies.
>
> Any help in pointing me to data that would help
> would
> be equally appreciated.
>
> Ethan Marsh
> http://marshaquaria.com
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
>
>
>
American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

Curiosity and anticipation strike.

What is the status of the Placidochromis phenochilus
'Tanzania?' I had a short correspondence with Ad
Konings last year (via email) whom believed this
splotchy variety was a separate species from the
traditional P. phenochilus. I've been anticipating an
actual rename and have seen nothing added via BIOSYS
for this genus.

If this is true the featured fish in BB 197 (April
2000) is actually of the yet-to-be-named
species/subspecies.

Any help in pointing me to data that would help would
be equally appreciated.

Ethan Marsh
http://marshaquaria.com

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway
http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

Tired of boring yahoo clubs. Try this new forum called: World of
Aquaria. We have messenger service, pm, e-mail, post your pictures.
you can make post and polls like: What is the best species.
We are starting up a profile section that is available to members
only. So come join today and be a part of a new and growing forum.
We also have a fish and tank of the month contest. and are in need
of moderators.


http://s4.invisionfree.com/worldofaquaria

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/buildingfishrooms/
Come talk about your fishrooms!

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
American_Cichlid_Association group:

The cichlids from what geographic area
are your favorite/specialty?

   o African Rift Lakes
   o West African Rivers
   o South America - Amazon
   o South America - Other
   o North/Central America


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/surveys?id=480943

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Not really, I am starting to think that the R/O water is the issue.
Kathy

--- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, Bob R
<bobrfish@y...> wrote:
> Hi Kathy,
>
> Did the dead fish show any signs of trauma?
>
> Bob
>
> --- kajalene <kajalene@y...> wrote:
> > Hmm, We just started adding some of the RO Right.
> > On advice from a
> > discus breeder we were trying to get the hardness
> > down.  The tap is
> > about 7 ph, but hardness is more perfect for
> > africans. We started
> > with tap water and started the ro changes 25% once a
> > week to get it
> > down from 11-14 to 5 where it is now.  Seeing that
> > this tank has been
> > up for awhile.  We were just adding more fish little
> > by little by
> > this time it may be that its all ro water.........
> > Maybe a little to
> > concerned about perfect discus conditions.  Will try
> > to add some more
> > RO Right, only have done 2 spoonfuls at the last
> > change on Thursday.
> > Thanks for a great help.  Wasn't even thinking that
> > direction.
> > Kathy
> >
> >
> > --- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> > "morefishaca"
> > <morefish@c...> wrote:
> > > There is a possible clue to your problem in part
> > of your message.
> > > You say that you are doing water changes using RO
> > water.  Are you
> > > doing anything to re-constitute that RO water?
> > >
> > > RO water is "too pure" to sustain life.  If you
> > were to fill a tank
> > > with only RO water, the fish would not survive for
> > long.  Products
> > > such as "RO Right" (a Kent products I believe) are
> > sold to re-
> > > constitute the RO water by adding back minerals
> > and trace elements
> > to
> > > make the water "fish-friendly".
> > >
> > > It is not clear how much of your water has been
> > replaced by RO
> > water
> > > but it is a possible cause of some of your
> > problems and can be
> > > considered.  Some people who use RO water mix it
> > 50-50 with regular
> > > tap water to ensure the presence of minerals &
> > trace elements
> > whilst
> > > helping to lower the pH.
> > >
> > > Often, it is easier to acclimate your fish to the
> > water you have in
> > > your area than it is to attempt to change the
> > nature of the water.
> > > Efforts to lower pH often result in levels that
> > "bounce", causing
> > > stress to the fish.  It is better to have a
> > constant pH slightly
> > out
> > > of the preferred range than it is to have one that
> > keeps changing.
> > I
> > > don't know if this applies to your situation, but
> > I'm just throwing
> > > it out there.
> > >
> > > Good luck.
> > >
> > > Craig.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In
> > American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, Eric
> > Hanneman
> > > <primarypredator@c...> wrote:
> > > > Your water parameters seem ideal for discus, so
> > that cannot be
> > > hurting
> > > > them. I assume such a wide variety of fish came
> > from the retail
> > end
> > > of
> > > > the hobby. Unless they were quarantined somehow,
> > you may have
> > > > introduced a disease. Though the fish are small,
> > its seems quite
> > a
> > > few
> > > > for a 55. There is no need to keep your
> > temperature that high
> > > either,
> > > > as it reduces the amount of oxygen available.
> > > >
> > > > On Mar 8, 2004, at 7:50 AM, kajalene wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I am looking for some help on a problem I am
> > having with a soft
> > > water
> > > > >  tank. It is starting to make me crazy. I have
> > rarely lost
> > > africans in
> > > > >  any of my tanks and proud that they all
> > thrive and reproduce
> > (in
> > > fact
> > > > >  just got my first aul rubences fry). But this
> > new tank has me
> > > going.
> > > > >
> > > > >  I have set up in our office a 55 gallon tank.
> > The water is
> > > around 6.8
> > > > >  ph, 5 hardness, kept between 82.5 to 83.3
> > temp, no amonia, no
> > > > >  nitrites. We do water changes with ro water.
> > In it I had 6
> > > chocolate
> > > > >  gouramis, 5 young discus, 6 blue rams, some
> > corys, guppies, a
> > > betta
> > > > >  male and 3 females, a group of blue line
> > rasboras, two small
> > koi
> > > > >  angels, a couple of 1" haplos, a small gold
> > nugget pleco, a
> > small
> > > > >  ancistrus from one of my tanks, and a royal
> > pleco. All of
> > these
> > > fish
> > > > >  were on the very small side from 1/2 and inch
> > to 1 1/2 inch on
> > > the
> > > > >  plecos and haplos. We did very well for the
> > first 2 weeks but
> > we
> > > did
> > > > >  loose a couple of guppies. Then we started
> > loosing a fish or
> > two
> > > > >  every couple of days. We thought it might be
> > the larger of the
> > > koi
> > > > >  angle so we removed him. Amazing thing the
> > Discus are the
> > > healthiest
> > > > >  in the tank with no problems. Instead we are
> > loosing some of
> > the
> > > > >  gouramis, some of the guppies, some of the
> > rasboras, a female
> > > betta,
> > > > >  a haplo, some of the rams, the royal pleco,
> > and the ancistrus.
> > We
> > > > >  keep rechecking water parameters, no change.
> > We try to see if
> > > anyone
> > > > >  looks like they are aggressive and only have
> > seen the rams
> > going
> > > at
> > > > >  it with each other. The one angel still in
> > there pokes at the
> > > cories
> > > > >  once in a while but we aren't loosing any of
> > them.
> > > > >
> > > > >  At this point I am very frustrated. Its seems
> > the hardest fish
> > to
> > > > >  keep - the discus - are thriving with no
> > problems and the
> > easier
> > > guys
> > > > >  are going? ANY IDEAS OR HELP IS NEEDED.
> > Thanks!!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > >
> > > > >  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> > > > >  
> > > > >  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> > email to:
> > > > >
> >
> American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > > >  
> > > > >  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > the Yahoo!
> > > Terms of
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster
> http://search.yahoo.com

I'm desperately looking for this fish with no luck.  Could someone
please help me out?  I've tried just about outlet I can think of with
no luck.  I want to buy one of these guys really bad, can someone
help me?

Hi Kathy,

Did the dead fish show any signs of trauma?

Bob

--- kajalene <kajalene@...> wrote:
> Hmm, We just started adding some of the RO Right.
> On advice from a
> discus breeder we were trying to get the hardness
> down.  The tap is
> about 7 ph, but hardness is more perfect for
> africans. We started
> with tap water and started the ro changes 25% once a
> week to get it
> down from 11-14 to 5 where it is now.  Seeing that
> this tank has been
> up for awhile.  We were just adding more fish little
> by little by
> this time it may be that its all ro water.........
> Maybe a little to
> concerned about perfect discus conditions.  Will try
> to add some more
> RO Right, only have done 2 spoonfuls at the last
> change on Thursday.
> Thanks for a great help.  Wasn't even thinking that
> direction.
> Kathy
>
>
> --- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> "morefishaca"
> <morefish@c...> wrote:
> > There is a possible clue to your problem in part
> of your message.
> > You say that you are doing water changes using RO
> water.  Are you
> > doing anything to re-constitute that RO water?
> >
> > RO water is "too pure" to sustain life.  If you
> were to fill a tank
> > with only RO water, the fish would not survive for
> long.  Products
> > such as "RO Right" (a Kent products I believe) are
> sold to re-
> > constitute the RO water by adding back minerals
> and trace elements
> to
> > make the water "fish-friendly".
> >
> > It is not clear how much of your water has been
> replaced by RO
> water
> > but it is a possible cause of some of your
> problems and can be
> > considered.  Some people who use RO water mix it
> 50-50 with regular
> > tap water to ensure the presence of minerals &
> trace elements
> whilst
> > helping to lower the pH.
> >
> > Often, it is easier to acclimate your fish to the
> water you have in
> > your area than it is to attempt to change the
> nature of the water.
> > Efforts to lower pH often result in levels that
> "bounce", causing
> > stress to the fish.  It is better to have a
> constant pH slightly
> out
> > of the preferred range than it is to have one that
> keeps changing.
> I
> > don't know if this applies to your situation, but
> I'm just throwing
> > it out there.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > Craig.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In
> American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, Eric
> Hanneman
> > <primarypredator@c...> wrote:
> > > Your water parameters seem ideal for discus, so
> that cannot be
> > hurting
> > > them. I assume such a wide variety of fish came
> from the retail
> end
> > of
> > > the hobby. Unless they were quarantined somehow,
> you may have
> > > introduced a disease. Though the fish are small,
> its seems quite
> a
> > few
> > > for a 55. There is no need to keep your
> temperature that high
> > either,
> > > as it reduces the amount of oxygen available.
> > >
> > > On Mar 8, 2004, at 7:50 AM, kajalene wrote:
> > >
> > > > I am looking for some help on a problem I am
> having with a soft
> > water
> > > >  tank. It is starting to make me crazy. I have
> rarely lost
> > africans in
> > > >  any of my tanks and proud that they all
> thrive and reproduce
> (in
> > fact
> > > >  just got my first aul rubences fry). But this
> new tank has me
> > going.
> > > >
> > > >  I have set up in our office a 55 gallon tank.
> The water is
> > around 6.8
> > > >  ph, 5 hardness, kept between 82.5 to 83.3
> temp, no amonia, no
> > > >  nitrites. We do water changes with ro water.
> In it I had 6
> > chocolate
> > > >  gouramis, 5 young discus, 6 blue rams, some
> corys, guppies, a
> > betta
> > > >  male and 3 females, a group of blue line
> rasboras, two small
> koi
> > > >  angels, a couple of 1" haplos, a small gold
> nugget pleco, a
> small
> > > >  ancistrus from one of my tanks, and a royal
> pleco. All of
> these
> > fish
> > > >  were on the very small side from 1/2 and inch
> to 1 1/2 inch on
> > the
> > > >  plecos and haplos. We did very well for the
> first 2 weeks but
> we
> > did
> > > >  loose a couple of guppies. Then we started
> loosing a fish or
> two
> > > >  every couple of days. We thought it might be
> the larger of the
> > koi
> > > >  angle so we removed him. Amazing thing the
> Discus are the
> > healthiest
> > > >  in the tank with no problems. Instead we are
> loosing some of
> the
> > > >  gouramis, some of the guppies, some of the
> rasboras, a female
> > betta,
> > > >  a haplo, some of the rams, the royal pleco,
> and the ancistrus.
> We
> > > >  keep rechecking water parameters, no change.
> We try to see if
> > anyone
> > > >  looks like they are aggressive and only have
> seen the rams
> going
> > at
> > > >  it with each other. The one angel still in
> there pokes at the
> > cories
> > > >  once in a while but we aren't loosing any of
> them.
> > > >
> > > >  At this point I am very frustrated. Its seems
> the hardest fish
> to
> > > >  keep - the discus - are thriving with no
> problems and the
> easier
> > guys
> > > >  are going? ANY IDEAS OR HELP IS NEEDED.
> Thanks!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> > > >  
> > > >  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
> > > >
>
American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > > >  
> > > >  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> the Yahoo!
> > Terms of
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

Hmm, We just started adding some of the RO Right.  On advice from a
discus breeder we were trying to get the hardness down.  The tap is
about 7 ph, but hardness is more perfect for africans. We started
with tap water and started the ro changes 25% once a week to get it
down from 11-14 to 5 where it is now.  Seeing that this tank has been
up for awhile.  We were just adding more fish little by little by
this time it may be that its all ro water.........  Maybe a little to
concerned about perfect discus conditions.  Will try to add some more
RO Right, only have done 2 spoonfuls at the last change on Thursday.
Thanks for a great help.  Wasn't even thinking that direction.
Kathy


--- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, "morefishaca"
<morefish@c...> wrote:
> There is a possible clue to your problem in part of your message.
> You say that you are doing water changes using RO water.  Are you
> doing anything to re-constitute that RO water?
>
> RO water is "too pure" to sustain life.  If you were to fill a tank
> with only RO water, the fish would not survive for long.  Products
> such as "RO Right" (a Kent products I believe) are sold to re-
> constitute the RO water by adding back minerals and trace elements
to
> make the water "fish-friendly".
>
> It is not clear how much of your water has been replaced by RO
water
> but it is a possible cause of some of your problems and can be
> considered.  Some people who use RO water mix it 50-50 with regular
> tap water to ensure the presence of minerals & trace elements
whilst
> helping to lower the pH.
>
> Often, it is easier to acclimate your fish to the water you have in
> your area than it is to attempt to change the nature of the water.
> Efforts to lower pH often result in levels that "bounce", causing
> stress to the fish.  It is better to have a constant pH slightly
out
> of the preferred range than it is to have one that keeps changing.
I
> don't know if this applies to your situation, but I'm just throwing
> it out there.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Craig.
>
>
>
>
> --- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, Eric Hanneman
> <primarypredator@c...> wrote:
> > Your water parameters seem ideal for discus, so that cannot be
> hurting
> > them. I assume such a wide variety of fish came from the retail
end
> of
> > the hobby. Unless they were quarantined somehow, you may have
> > introduced a disease. Though the fish are small, its seems quite
a
> few
> > for a 55. There is no need to keep your temperature that high
> either,
> > as it reduces the amount of oxygen available.
> >
> > On Mar 8, 2004, at 7:50 AM, kajalene wrote:
> >
> > > I am looking for some help on a problem I am having with a soft
> water
> > >  tank. It is starting to make me crazy. I have rarely lost
> africans in
> > >  any of my tanks and proud that they all thrive and reproduce
(in
> fact
> > >  just got my first aul rubences fry). But this new tank has me
> going.
> > >
> > >  I have set up in our office a 55 gallon tank. The water is
> around 6.8
> > >  ph, 5 hardness, kept between 82.5 to 83.3 temp, no amonia, no
> > >  nitrites. We do water changes with ro water. In it I had 6
> chocolate
> > >  gouramis, 5 young discus, 6 blue rams, some corys, guppies, a
> betta
> > >  male and 3 females, a group of blue line rasboras, two small
koi
> > >  angels, a couple of 1" haplos, a small gold nugget pleco, a
small
> > >  ancistrus from one of my tanks, and a royal pleco. All of
these
> fish
> > >  were on the very small side from 1/2 and inch to 1 1/2 inch on
> the
> > >  plecos and haplos. We did very well for the first 2 weeks but
we
> did
> > >  loose a couple of guppies. Then we started loosing a fish or
two
> > >  every couple of days. We thought it might be the larger of the
> koi
> > >  angle so we removed him. Amazing thing the Discus are the
> healthiest
> > >  in the tank with no problems. Instead we are loosing some of
the
> > >  gouramis, some of the guppies, some of the rasboras, a female
> betta,
> > >  a haplo, some of the rams, the royal pleco, and the ancistrus.
We
> > >  keep rechecking water parameters, no change. We try to see if
> anyone
> > >  looks like they are aggressive and only have seen the rams
going
> at
> > >  it with each other. The one angel still in there pokes at the
> cories
> > >  once in a while but we aren't loosing any of them.
> > >
> > >  At this point I am very frustrated. Its seems the hardest fish
to
> > >  keep - the discus - are thriving with no problems and the
easier
> guys
> > >  are going? ANY IDEAS OR HELP IS NEEDED. Thanks!!
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> > >  
> > >  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >  
> > >  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of
> > > Service.
> > >
> > >
> > Cichlids Rule!
> >
> > Eric Hanneman
> > BB Managing Editor
> > 541-342-6968

There is a possible clue to your problem in part of your message.
You say that you are doing water changes using RO water.  Are you
doing anything to re-constitute that RO water?

RO water is "too pure" to sustain life.  If you were to fill a tank
with only RO water, the fish would not survive for long.  Products
such as "RO Right" (a Kent products I believe) are sold to re-
constitute the RO water by adding back minerals and trace elements to
make the water "fish-friendly".

It is not clear how much of your water has been replaced by RO water
but it is a possible cause of some of your problems and can be
considered.  Some people who use RO water mix it 50-50 with regular
tap water to ensure the presence of minerals & trace elements whilst
helping to lower the pH.

Often, it is easier to acclimate your fish to the water you have in
your area than it is to attempt to change the nature of the water.
Efforts to lower pH often result in levels that "bounce", causing
stress to the fish.  It is better to have a constant pH slightly out
of the preferred range than it is to have one that keeps changing.  I
don't know if this applies to your situation, but I'm just throwing
it out there.

Good luck.

Craig.




--- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, Eric Hanneman
<primarypredator@c...> wrote:
> Your water parameters seem ideal for discus, so that cannot be
hurting
> them. I assume such a wide variety of fish came from the retail end
of
> the hobby. Unless they were quarantined somehow, you may have
> introduced a disease. Though the fish are small, its seems quite a
few
> for a 55. There is no need to keep your temperature that high
either,
> as it reduces the amount of oxygen available.
>
> On Mar 8, 2004, at 7:50 AM, kajalene wrote:
>
> > I am looking for some help on a problem I am having with a soft
water
> >  tank. It is starting to make me crazy. I have rarely lost
africans in
> >  any of my tanks and proud that they all thrive and reproduce (in
fact
> >  just got my first aul rubences fry). But this new tank has me
going.
> >
> >  I have set up in our office a 55 gallon tank. The water is
around 6.8
> >  ph, 5 hardness, kept between 82.5 to 83.3 temp, no amonia, no
> >  nitrites. We do water changes with ro water. In it I had 6
chocolate
> >  gouramis, 5 young discus, 6 blue rams, some corys, guppies, a
betta
> >  male and 3 females, a group of blue line rasboras, two small koi
> >  angels, a couple of 1" haplos, a small gold nugget pleco, a small
> >  ancistrus from one of my tanks, and a royal pleco. All of these
fish
> >  were on the very small side from 1/2 and inch to 1 1/2 inch on
the
> >  plecos and haplos. We did very well for the first 2 weeks but we
did
> >  loose a couple of guppies. Then we started loosing a fish or two
> >  every couple of days. We thought it might be the larger of the
koi
> >  angle so we removed him. Amazing thing the Discus are the
healthiest
> >  in the tank with no problems. Instead we are loosing some of the
> >  gouramis, some of the guppies, some of the rasboras, a female
betta,
> >  a haplo, some of the rams, the royal pleco, and the ancistrus. We
> >  keep rechecking water parameters, no change. We try to see if
anyone
> >  looks like they are aggressive and only have seen the rams going
at
> >  it with each other. The one angel still in there pokes at the
cories
> >  once in a while but we aren't loosing any of them.
> >
> >  At this point I am very frustrated. Its seems the hardest fish to
> >  keep - the discus - are thriving with no problems and the easier
guys
> >  are going? ANY IDEAS OR HELP IS NEEDED. Thanks!!
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> >  
> >  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >  
> >  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
Terms of
> > Service.
> >
> >
> Cichlids Rule!
>
> Eric Hanneman
> BB Managing Editor
> 541-342-6968

Your water parameters seem ideal for discus, so that cannot be hurting
them. I assume such a wide variety of fish came from the retail end of
the hobby. Unless they were quarantined somehow, you may have
introduced a disease. Though the fish are small, its seems quite a few
for a 55. There is no need to keep your temperature that high either,
as it reduces the amount of oxygen available.

On Mar 8, 2004, at 7:50 AM, kajalene wrote:

> I am looking for some help on a problem I am having with a soft water
>  tank. It is starting to make me crazy. I have rarely lost africans in
>  any of my tanks and proud that they all thrive and reproduce (in fact
>  just got my first aul rubences fry). But this new tank has me going.
>
>  I have set up in our office a 55 gallon tank. The water is around 6.8
>  ph, 5 hardness, kept between 82.5 to 83.3 temp, no amonia, no
>  nitrites. We do water changes with ro water. In it I had 6 chocolate
>  gouramis, 5 young discus, 6 blue rams, some corys, guppies, a betta
>  male and 3 females, a group of blue line rasboras, two small koi
>  angels, a couple of 1" haplos, a small gold nugget pleco, a small
>  ancistrus from one of my tanks, and a royal pleco. All of these fish
>  were on the very small side from 1/2 and inch to 1 1/2 inch on the
>  plecos and haplos. We did very well for the first 2 weeks but we did
>  loose a couple of guppies. Then we started loosing a fish or two
>  every couple of days. We thought it might be the larger of the koi
>  angle so we removed him. Amazing thing the Discus are the healthiest
>  in the tank with no problems. Instead we are loosing some of the
>  gouramis, some of the guppies, some of the rasboras, a female betta,
>  a haplo, some of the rams, the royal pleco, and the ancistrus. We
>  keep rechecking water parameters, no change. We try to see if anyone
>  looks like they are aggressive and only have seen the rams going at
>  it with each other. The one angel still in there pokes at the cories
>  once in a while but we aren't loosing any of them.
>
>  At this point I am very frustrated. Its seems the hardest fish to
>  keep - the discus - are thriving with no problems and the easier guys
>  are going? ANY IDEAS OR HELP IS NEEDED. Thanks!!
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>  •  To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
>  
>  • 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
>  • 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.
>
>
Cichlids Rule!

Eric Hanneman
BB Managing Editor
541-342-6968

I am looking for some help on a problem I am having with a soft water
tank. It is starting to make me crazy. I have rarely lost africans in
any of my tanks and proud that they all thrive and reproduce (in fact
just got my first aul rubences fry). But this new tank has me going.

I have set up in our office a 55 gallon tank. The water is around 6.8
ph, 5 hardness, kept between 82.5 to 83.3 temp, no amonia, no
nitrites. We do water changes with ro water. In it I had 6 chocolate
gouramis, 5 young discus, 6 blue rams, some corys, guppies, a betta
male and 3 females, a group of blue line rasboras, two small koi
angels, a couple of 1" haplos, a small gold nugget pleco, a small
ancistrus from one of my tanks, and a royal pleco. All of these fish
were on the very small side from 1/2 and inch to 1 1/2 inch on the
plecos and haplos. We did very well for the first 2 weeks but we did
loose a couple of guppies. Then we started loosing a fish or two
every couple of days. We thought it might be the larger of the koi
angle so we removed him. Amazing thing the Discus are the healthiest
in the tank with no problems. Instead we are loosing some of the
gouramis, some of the guppies, some of the rasboras, a female betta,
a haplo, some of the rams, the royal pleco, and the ancistrus. We
keep rechecking water parameters, no change. We try to see if anyone
looks like they are aggressive and only have seen the rams going at
it with each other. The one angel still in there pokes at the cories
once in a while but we aren't loosing any of them.

At this point I am very frustrated. Its seems the hardest fish to
keep - the discus - are thriving with no problems and the easier guys
are going? ANY IDEAS OR HELP IS NEEDED. Thanks!!

Thanks everyone for their suggestions.  I think I am going to go
with a Apisto. cacatoudies pair.  I like the agasizzi's tail design
a lot, but I have heard good things about the cacatoudies toleration
of the harder water, etc that I am going to be dealing with here.  I
am not a member *yet* of the ACA proper (I am a new member of the
AGA though) and hopefully will join w/ my next paycheck.  Until
then, if anyone has a nice young group (4 or so) or proven breeding
pair of cacatuodies that have shown a hard water tolerance (again,
7.4-7.6ish pH, ~10 degrees of GH & KH)for not that much cash, drop
me a line.

Unfortunately, I am the sales associate at a local Petco who is
responsible for our fish orders, and our soft-water amazonian
cichlid availablility is nil.

--- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, "Seek and ye
shall find" <scitzofrek@y...> wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> I am about to set up a 20L planted tank which I'd like to also make
> a dwarf cichlid tank.  Local water here is ~7.4pH, 10 degrees GH
and
> KH.  I've done kribs in such a setup before and would like to try
> something a little different. Hopefully something easy to track
down
> and also relatively in expensive (less than $10 a fish would be
> nice).  Let me know some of the groups suggestions.
>
> Andy D.


Andy:

If you have a planted tank that is only 20L, I suggest that
Apistogramma species would be a suitable choice.  There are many
Apistogrammas available through ACA members and many would be
available for less than $10.  They are certainly small enough for
your tank.

First you may wish to read an article about Ick, see it here:
http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/ich.php
This post is to discuss further points from that article.

From a lay perspective there are a couple of reasons why Ick is
thought to lie dormant in a tank and fish develop resistance to Ick.

Here is a true scenerio. Fish are brought in and added to a tank.
Those fish develop Ick and the remaining fish in tank do not.
Alternatively, if a quarrantine tank is used the incoming fish in
tank develop Ick. The incoming fish did not have Ick prior to
changing tanks (KNOWN FACT). So where did Ick come from? Was Ick
dormant on incoming fish until they reached new quarters or was Ick
dormant in new quarters until fish arrived? Or what is explanation
for this observation?

Now consider the situation where new fish are not quarrantinied and
just added to tank. The new fish develop Ick but older fish in tank
do not or at least not immeadiately. By time new fish are in big
trouble, presumable the fish keeper is taking steps to prevent
remaining stock from death. Of course in a scientific study the
remaining fish would be allowed to die or survive to determine what
is really happening.

Lastly, it seems certain genus have a greater tendency to develop
Ick following a tank change than other genus. Anyone have ideas as
to why that is?

The real question I'm posing is whether they will take
frozen baby brine since I'm not in a position to hatch
brine right now.

Also these fish are not in a breeding tank and are
dominated by the afore mentioned tank mates which is
my primary reason for reming the fry and raizing them
myself. This was an entirely unexpected spawning.

These fish have been under the same set up for several
years which includes several moves since I am still a
renter.

I've been offered space at a professional breeders
facilities in case they are not eating well.

Thanks for everyone for the advice. I will try to pose
questions much clearer in the future.

Ethan Marsh

--- bobrfish <bobrfish@...> wrote:
> Ethan, yes the will be able to take BBS once yolk
> sac is absorbed.
>
> --- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> blackdiode
> <blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> > I will be spitting the fry into a grow out tank.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Ethan Marsh
> >
> > --- bobrfish <bobrfish@y...> wrote:
> > > If you are thinking of feeding fry inside mom's
> > > mouth with BBS, it
> > > is unlikely to work.
> > > Tried to feed fish BBS on two occasions where
> female
> > > dropped eggs,
> > > fry and went for BBS.  It was Eretmodus and
> > > Enantiopus.
> > > If that is not your question, please ask it
> again.
> > >
> > > --- In
> American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> > > blackdiode
> > > <blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> > > > I have an aquarium stocked with large plecos,
> > > > Placidochromis 'Tanzania,' Aulonocara
> 'Maisoni'
> > > and
> > > > Geophagus altifrons 'Manaus.'
> > > >
> > > > The G. altifrons decided that even though they
> are
> > > the
> > > > submissive cichlids in the tank they ought to
> > > start
> > > > spawning. Female is holding a clutch of eggs
> in
> > > her
> > > > mouth. My wife and I watched the two spawn for
> at
> > > > least an hour before we left and she is still
> > > holding.
> > > >
> > > > I know that the fry will have a better chance
> if I
> > > > have her spit them at five to six days but
> since I
> > > had
> > > > broken my ankle only a few days vefore this
> > > happened I
> > > > cannot walk around and set up anything.
> > > >
> > > > I can seriously barely move from one room to
> the
> > > next.
> > > >
> > > > I'm trying to find an easy way out of this
> right
> > > now.
> > > > So here is my question: does anyone know if
> the
> > > fry
> > > > will except baby frozen fry? I know this
> species
> > > are
> > > > big eaters. I have an opt out if I need to
> since
> > > the
> > > > gentlemen (Bob Allen) whom sold me my original
> > > fish
> > > > offered to raize the fry if I am unable to.
> > > >
> > > > A simple response from someone with experience
> > > would
> > > > be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > I listed the tank mates only to express my
> > > > astonishment that the pair had to keep
> retreating
> > > and
> > > > coming back to the stone to mate because they
> are
> > > by
> > > > far the most passive fish in the tank and
> simply
> > > > cannot defend themselves.
> > > >
> > > > Ethan Marsh
> > > > Provo, Utah
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
> > > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> > > want.
> > > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> want.
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
>
>
>
American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

Ethan, yes the will be able to take BBS once yolk sac is absorbed.

--- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, blackdiode
<blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> I will be spitting the fry into a grow out tank.
>
> Thank you,
> Ethan Marsh
>
> --- bobrfish <bobrfish@y...> wrote:
> > If you are thinking of feeding fry inside mom's
> > mouth with BBS, it
> > is unlikely to work.
> > Tried to feed fish BBS on two occasions where female
> > dropped eggs,
> > fry and went for BBS.  It was Eretmodus and
> > Enantiopus.
> > If that is not your question, please ask it again.
> >
> > --- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> > blackdiode
> > <blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> > > I have an aquarium stocked with large plecos,
> > > Placidochromis 'Tanzania,' Aulonocara 'Maisoni'
> > and
> > > Geophagus altifrons 'Manaus.'
> > >
> > > The G. altifrons decided that even though they are
> > the
> > > submissive cichlids in the tank they ought to
> > start
> > > spawning. Female is holding a clutch of eggs in
> > her
> > > mouth. My wife and I watched the two spawn for at
> > > least an hour before we left and she is still
> > holding.
> > >
> > > I know that the fry will have a better chance if I
> > > have her spit them at five to six days but since I
> > had
> > > broken my ankle only a few days vefore this
> > happened I
> > > cannot walk around and set up anything.
> > >
> > > I can seriously barely move from one room to the
> > next.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to find an easy way out of this right
> > now.
> > > So here is my question: does anyone know if the
> > fry
> > > will except baby frozen fry? I know this species
> > are
> > > big eaters. I have an opt out if I need to since
> > the
> > > gentlemen (Bob Allen) whom sold me my original
> > fish
> > > offered to raize the fry if I am unable to.
> > >
> > > A simple response from someone with experience
> > would
> > > be appreciated.
> > >
> > > I listed the tank mates only to express my
> > > astonishment that the pair had to keep retreating
> > and
> > > coming back to the stone to mate because they are
> > by
> > > far the most passive fish in the tank and simply
> > > cannot defend themselves.
> > >
> > > Ethan Marsh
> > > Provo, Utah
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> > want.
> > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> >
> >
> >
> American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

It that is the case, why not wait 18 days before
stripping.  By then the fry will be able to take BBS.
Probably sooner but allowing them to stick with mom
seems to be easier on all concerned come stripping
time.
Also catch her at night for best results.  She is
liable to spit the fry as soon as she is cornered by a
net during day.  Fry will be strewn all over the
breeding tank unless you are quick with a fine mesh
net.

--- blackdiode <blackdiode@...> wrote:
> I will be spitting the fry into a grow out tank.
>
> Thank you,
> Ethan Marsh
>
> --- bobrfish <bobrfish@...> wrote:
> > If you are thinking of feeding fry inside mom's
> > mouth with BBS, it
> > is unlikely to work.
> > Tried to feed fish BBS on two occasions where
> female
> > dropped eggs,
> > fry and went for BBS.  It was Eretmodus and
> > Enantiopus.
> > If that is not your question, please ask it again.
> >
> > --- In
> American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> > blackdiode
> > <blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> > > I have an aquarium stocked with large plecos,
> > > Placidochromis 'Tanzania,' Aulonocara 'Maisoni'
> > and
> > > Geophagus altifrons 'Manaus.'
> > >
> > > The G. altifrons decided that even though they
> are
> > the
> > > submissive cichlids in the tank they ought to
> > start
> > > spawning. Female is holding a clutch of eggs in
> > her
> > > mouth. My wife and I watched the two spawn for
> at
> > > least an hour before we left and she is still
> > holding.
> > >
> > > I know that the fry will have a better chance if
> I
> > > have her spit them at five to six days but since
> I
> > had
> > > broken my ankle only a few days vefore this
> > happened I
> > > cannot walk around and set up anything.
> > >
> > > I can seriously barely move from one room to the
> > next.
> > >
> > > I'm trying to find an easy way out of this right
> > now.
> > > So here is my question: does anyone know if the
> > fry
> > > will except baby frozen fry? I know this species
> > are
> > > big eaters. I have an opt out if I need to since
> > the
> > > gentlemen (Bob Allen) whom sold me my original
> > fish
> > > offered to raize the fry if I am unable to.
> > >
> > > A simple response from someone with experience
> > would
> > > be appreciated.
> > >
> > > I listed the tank mates only to express my
> > > astonishment that the pair had to keep
> retreating
> > and
> > > coming back to the stone to mate because they
> are
> > by
> > > far the most passive fish in the tank and simply
> > > cannot defend themselves.
> > >
> > > Ethan Marsh
> > > Provo, Utah
> > >
> > > __________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> > want.
> > > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
> >
> >
> >
>
American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

I will be spitting the fry into a grow out tank.

Thank you,
Ethan Marsh

--- bobrfish <bobrfish@...> wrote:
> If you are thinking of feeding fry inside mom's
> mouth with BBS, it
> is unlikely to work.
> Tried to feed fish BBS on two occasions where female
> dropped eggs,
> fry and went for BBS.  It was Eretmodus and
> Enantiopus.
> If that is not your question, please ask it again.
>
> --- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com,
> blackdiode
> <blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> > I have an aquarium stocked with large plecos,
> > Placidochromis 'Tanzania,' Aulonocara 'Maisoni'
> and
> > Geophagus altifrons 'Manaus.'
> >
> > The G. altifrons decided that even though they are
> the
> > submissive cichlids in the tank they ought to
> start
> > spawning. Female is holding a clutch of eggs in
> her
> > mouth. My wife and I watched the two spawn for at
> > least an hour before we left and she is still
> holding.
> >
> > I know that the fry will have a better chance if I
> > have her spit them at five to six days but since I
> had
> > broken my ankle only a few days vefore this
> happened I
> > cannot walk around and set up anything.
> >
> > I can seriously barely move from one room to the
> next.
> >
> > I'm trying to find an easy way out of this right
> now.
> > So here is my question: does anyone know if the
> fry
> > will except baby frozen fry? I know this species
> are
> > big eaters. I have an opt out if I need to since
> the
> > gentlemen (Bob Allen) whom sold me my original
> fish
> > offered to raize the fry if I am unable to.
> >
> > A simple response from someone with experience
> would
> > be appreciated.
> >
> > I listed the tank mates only to express my
> > astonishment that the pair had to keep retreating
> and
> > coming back to the stone to mate because they are
> by
> > far the most passive fish in the tank and simply
> > cannot defend themselves.
> >
> > Ethan Marsh
> > Provo, Utah
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you
> want.
> > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/American_Cichlid_Association/
>
>
>
American_Cichlid_Association-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

If you are thinking of feeding fry inside mom's mouth with BBS, it
is unlikely to work.
Tried to feed fish BBS on two occasions where female dropped eggs,
fry and went for BBS.  It was Eretmodus and Enantiopus.
If that is not your question, please ask it again.

--- In American_Cichlid_Association@yahoogroups.com, blackdiode
<blackdiode@y...> wrote:
> I have an aquarium stocked with large plecos,
> Placidochromis 'Tanzania,' Aulonocara 'Maisoni' and
> Geophagus altifrons 'Manaus.'
>
> The G. altifrons decided that even though they are the
> submissive cichlids in the tank they ought to start
> spawning. Female is holding a clutch of eggs in her
> mouth. My wife and I watched the two spawn for at
> least an hour before we left and she is still holding.
>
> I know that the fry will have a better chance if I
> have her spit them at five to six days but since I had
> broken my ankle only a few days vefore this happened I
> cannot walk around and set up anything.
>
> I can seriously barely move from one room to the next.
>
> I'm trying to find an easy way out of this right now.
> So here is my question: does anyone know if the fry
> will except baby frozen fry? I know this species are
> big eaters. I have an opt out if I need to since the
> gentlemen (Bob Allen) whom sold me my original fish
> offered to raize the fry if I am unable to.
>
> A simple response from someone with experience would
> be appreciated.
>
> I listed the tank mates only to express my
> astonishment that the pair had to keep retreating and
> coming back to the stone to mate because they are by
> far the most passive fish in the tank and simply
> cannot defend themselves.
>
> Ethan Marsh
> Provo, Utah
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

I have an aquarium stocked with large plecos,
Placidochromis 'Tanzania,' Aulonocara 'Maisoni' and
Geophagus altifrons 'Manaus.'

The G. altifrons decided that even though they are the
submissive cichlids in the tank they ought to start
spawning. Female is holding a clutch of eggs in her
mouth. My wife and I watched the two spawn for at
least an hour before we left and she is still holding.

I know that the fry will have a better chance if I
have her spit them at five to six days but since I had
broken my ankle only a few days vefore this happened I
cannot walk around and set up anything.

I can seriously barely move from one room to the next.

I'm trying to find an easy way out of this right now.
So here is my question: does anyone know if the fry
will except baby frozen fry? I know this species are
big eaters. I have an opt out if I need to since the
gentlemen (Bob Allen) whom sold me my original fish
offered to raize the fry if I am unable to.

A simple response from someone with experience would
be appreciated.

I listed the tank mates only to express my
astonishment that the pair had to keep retreating and
coming back to the stone to mate because they are by
far the most passive fish in the tank and simply
cannot defend themselves.

Ethan Marsh
Provo, Utah

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

I have a 125 gallon Tanganikian tank that works, but is not
optimal for raising the fry.

Perfecto 125 (72"x18"x22")
200# of lace rock for decor
2 Hydrosponge IV's for aeration and filtration
1 HOT Magnum for filtration and circulation
Some med sized brown gravel.
Lighting = 2x25W + 2x32W Normal Output Flourescent
ADULT FISH
8 N. Buescheri "Gold Zaire"
9 S. Petricola
18 T. Duboisi 'Maswa'
18 T. Moorii 'Bemba'
FRY
A bunch of N. Buescheri
A few T. Duboisi

The Lamps and Syno's love all the caves.  The tropheus love
all the algae that grows on the exposed rock.

The Tropheus breed all the time. I think the Lamps are
eating the fry, but I've gotten a few to make it.  The
Lamps breed fairly often, but the Syno's probably get their
fry.  Ths Synos could be breeding, but their fry don't have
a chance in that tank.

Man I can't wait to get my new breeder system setup in 2
weeks.  I'll be able to seperate out the breeders and raise
the fry.

I'll have 3 120's for breeder tanks and 6 20's for fry
tanks.  All predrilled and on a drip/drain system with
dosing pumps to meter the constant water changes.


--- bobrfish <bobrfish@...> wrote:
> Many have set up aquariums allowing this fish to breed in
> them.  What
> did you do that was successful?  Specifically, size of
> tank, decor,
> tank mates, feeding what on what schedule, water
> chemistry etc.
> Thanks for taking the time to give me a hand.
>
>


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

Hi Andy,

Perhaps my answer (post #3) to your question was not
what you were seeking.  All of the following fish can
be found for less than $10 each.  Maybe not at LFS but
if you place WANT add in Trading Post, you will get
responses.  Also if you belong to a local fish club,
you will be able to find these fish at a reasonable
price.
"Lamprologus" multifasiatus
"Lamprologus" similus
"Lamprologus" ocellatus
"Lamprologus" speciosus
"Lamprologus" brevis
"Lamprologus" signatus
"Lamprologus" caudopunctatus

Regards, Bob

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard - Read only the mail you want.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

Many have set up aquariums allowing this fish to breed in them.  What
did you do that was successful?  Specifically, size of tank, decor,
tank mates, feeding what on what schedule, water chemistry etc.
Thanks for taking the time to give me a hand.

Hi Andy,

Here is what an expert had to say:
Subject: Plants compatible with African Cichlids

  I have a small tank set up for Tanganyikan shell dwellers.
  I have found that Java Ferns attached to rocks work well, as do
several
Anubias that I plant in between rocks, where it's hard to dig them
out.

   E-mail from: Karen Randall, 02-May-1995


Others like to use potted plants for various reasons.  Since they are
plants, if your shellies dig them up (unlikely) then replant.  If
they eat them, they will regrow-right?

Bob

Greetings,

I am about to set up a 20L planted tank which I'd like to also make
a dwarf cichlid tank.  Local water here is ~7.4pH, 10 degrees GH and
KH.  I've done kribs in such a setup before and would like to try
something a little different. Hopefully something easy to track down
and also relatively in expensive (less than $10 a fish would be
nice).  Let me know some of the groups suggestions.

Andy D.

Anyone interested in Ptychochromis grandidieri.  Pay
shipping costs and will send fry to you.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html