Ellen:

The way is works out statistically is 25%. Once I was at a genetics seminar
(in the early 80s) with some longer time breeders than I am featuring
Michigan State University Vet School Genetics experts. An Aussie breeder
said that she had had several litters up to that the time that had no double
merles. The Dr. answered that she just hadn't had enough puppies. If you
have 100 puppies from merle to merle, 25% would be double merle. He just
stated that statistically it works out that way...if you do it on a punnet
square it turns out that way, but that doesn't mean that every litter is
going to divide that way every time. He said, you could do that cross over
and over and one whole litter might end up being double merle. While her
experience was producing few in several litters the next litter might mean
that she would have had a lot more. It's like bog breeding in general, it's
a crap shoot. Back in the 70s and early 80s a lot more merle to merle
breedings were done. Now it is more frowned upon for sure.

Ann
Ann B. DeChant
Sundew Australian Shepherds since 1976
ASCA Senior Breeder Judge
Perry, Michigan
----- Original Message -----
From: <AussieEdu@yahoogroups.com>
To: <AussieEdu@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 6:08 PM
Subject: [AussieEdu] Digest Number 343


> There are 3 messages in this issue.
>
> Topics in this digest:
>
> 1. Merle Gene ?
> From: "Ellen~ Kuhn's Aussies" <ekuhn@...>
> 2. Re: Merle Gene ?
> From: "Margi L. Floyd" <wetdogs@...>
> 3. Re: Merle Gene ?
> From: "Margi L. Floyd" <wetdogs@...>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:30:02 -0500
> From: "Ellen~ Kuhn's Aussies" <ekuhn@...>
> Subject: Merle Gene ?
>
> Hi All,
>
> I was having a conversation with someone about merle to merle
> breeding. You'll see their quote below.
>
> After reading the quote below here was something about it that
> didn't quite feel right. What am I missing here? Is what they are trying
> to say is no matter what two merles you use the offspring will always be
> homozygous? For some reason I thought there was an other possibility for
> a
> heterozygous to be produced?
>
> Is their definition of a homozygous merle correct as well?
>
> *Quote* --Merle to merle breeding results in the offspring being
> homozygous merles, homozygous merles usually have faded merling and lots
> of
> white, and genetic defects such as deafness, vision problems and eye
> defects
> from mild to severe.-- *End Quote*
>
>
>
> Ellen E. Kuhn
> ~Kuhn's Australian Shepherds~
> www.geocities.com/aussie_ud_oh/index.html
>
> He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
> You are his life, his love, his leader.
> He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart!
> You owe it to him to be worthy of that devotion!
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:06:20 -0800
> From: "Margi L. Floyd" <wetdogs@...>
> Subject: Re: Merle Gene ?
>
> No. Merle to merle _can _produce homozygous merles. But not always. Use
> the pundit squares. I've know of quite a few merle - merle crosses that
> had no mismarks, no whites, etc. But I have also known of merle-tri
> breedings that produce excessive white, body white, etc. Yes, there can
> be eye problems, deafness, etc. more often in merle/merle crosses in
> HOMOzygous merles but I believe that is seen normally in those with
> excessive white. I have had merle/merle crosses. One excessive
> (homozygous) white (almost all white) puppy. I would suggest they read
> CA's information on the ASCA website regarding color and merles. I have
> yet to see 'fading merling' - does that mean the color goes away??? Most
> of my merles either stay the same or get darker with age. Even those
> from the merle/merle cross.
>
> Margi Floyd
> Winslows Aussies
>
> Ellen~ Kuhn's Aussies wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I was having a conversation with someone about merle to merle
>>breeding. You'll see their quote below.
>>
>> After reading the quote below here was something about it that
>>didn't quite feel right. What am I missing here? Is what they are trying
>>to say is no matter what two merles you use the offspring will always be
>>homozygous? For some reason I thought there was an other possibility for
>>a
>>heterozygous to be produced?
>>
>> Is their definition of a homozygous merle correct as well?
>>
>> *Quote* --Merle to merle breeding results in the offspring being
>>homozygous merles, homozygous merles usually have faded merling and lots
>>of
>>white, and genetic defects such as deafness, vision problems and eye
>>defects
>>from mild to severe.-- *End Quote*
>>
>>
>>
>> Ellen E. Kuhn
>>~Kuhn's Australian Shepherds~
>>www.geocities.com/aussie_ud_oh/index.html
>>
>>He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
>>You are his life, his love, his leader.
>>He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart!
>>You owe it to him to be worthy of that devotion!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 09:08:49 -0800
> From: "Margi L. Floyd" <wetdogs@...>
> Subject: Re: Merle Gene ?
>
> Also, take a look at my m/m cross girls at www.winslowsaussies.com click
> on Courtney or Georgia (under Bred-By) Margi
>
> Ellen~ Kuhn's Aussies wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I was having a conversation with someone about merle to merle
>>breeding. You'll see their quote below.
>>
>> After reading the quote below here was something about it that
>>didn't quite feel right. What am I missing here? Is what they are trying
>>to say is no matter what two merles you use the offspring will always be
>>homozygous? For some reason I thought there was an other possibility for
>>a
>>heterozygous to be produced?
>>
>> Is their definition of a homozygous merle correct as well?
>>
>> *Quote* --Merle to merle breeding results in the offspring being
>>homozygous merles, homozygous merles usually have faded merling and lots
>>of
>>white, and genetic defects such as deafness, vision problems and eye
>>defects
>>from mild to severe.-- *End Quote*
>>
>>
>>
>> Ellen E. Kuhn
>>~Kuhn's Australian Shepherds~
>>www.geocities.com/aussie_ud_oh/index.html
>>
>>He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog.
>>You are his life, his love, his leader.
>>He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart!
>>You owe it to him to be worthy of that devotion!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ________________________________________________________________________
> ________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>