FoundationArabianHorses : Messages : 21959-21988 of 22013

#21984 From: "Claudia Provin" <provincmk@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:15 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Al-Khamsa lawmoss
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It is not what I was looking for, but it was interesting reading. I was disappointed, though because for some reason the drawins would not come up for me. THANKS!

Here is one fore you though I do not think it is the one you are thinking of.

http://www.bsprc.o-f.com/strain.htm

"Might point out that it was not what the strains were EXPECTED to look like but what an artist interpreted them to look like in Raswan's day, thus the basis for HIS theories of strain breeding."

Now, there's a "caveat" if I ever heard one! (g)

Claudia

http://www.bsprc.o-f.com/strain.htm

#21983 From: "Renaissance IV" <Renaissance@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 6:25 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Al-Khamsa shtika
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Here is one fore you though I do not think it is the one you are thinking of.

The person that wrote this asked if I would pass this on as well

"Might point out that it was not what the strains were EXPECTED to look like but what an artist interpreted them to look like in Raswan's day, thus the basis for HIS theories of strain breeding."

Marie

In one of the Al-Khamsa publications about 10-15 years ago there was an
articles on the types of horse from each of the strains. I believe I saw
two articles - or the two things were included in one article - there were
photos of living examples of the strains, and there were drawings of what
the strains were expected to look like. Can anyone give me a link so I can
go find those?

Claudia

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#21982 From: "Lauren" <larab2@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:46 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Al-Khamsa antiquityara...
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I have them in hard copy around here somewhere. I will look for them also.

----- Original Message -----

From: Claudia Provin

To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:10 AM

Subject: [AFAHA] Al-Khamsa

In one of the Al-Khamsa publications about 10-15 years ago there was an
articles on the types of horse from each of the strains. I believe I saw
two articles - or the two things were included in one article - there were
photos of living examples of the strains, and there were drawings of what
the strains were expected to look like. Can anyone give me a link so I can
go find those?

Claudia

#21981 From: "Claudia Provin" <provincmk@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:32 pm
Subject: trimming posts lawmoss
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I agree that posts need to be trimmed-----there's almost nothing more
aggravating than trying to read through "yards" of print.   The one thing I
DO find more aggravating is trying to delete posts written in HTML - I find
that if you don't highlight it "just so" - nothing will delete.  Perhaps we
could do more posting in "plain text"--that deletes very easily.  (I find
myself changing the format from HTML to plain text just so I can delete.)

Claudia

#21980 From: "Claudia Provin" <provincmk@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:10 pm
Subject: Al-Khamsa lawmoss
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In one of the Al-Khamsa publications about 10-15 years ago there was an
articles on the types of horse from each of the strains.  I believe I saw
two articles - or the two things were included in one article - there were
photos of living examples of the strains, and there were drawings of what
the strains were expected to look like.  Can anyone give me a link so I can
go find those?

Claudia

#21979 From: Vallrie Sweeney <absolutelyremarkable@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 3:20 am
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type absolutelyre...
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You have to love the throwbacks! I had a Sabreur daughter who never blended the ingrediants in the cooker the way you expected. Some times she produced herself, other

times if you could locate photos of every horse in the foals pedigree for say 4 generations you would find the horse that has suddenly reappeared.

I have a theory...the throwback, the copier, and the blender much will depend on the health of the mare during pregnancy, the feeding program, whether you are breeding along phenotype methods or if you are crossing back into the mares pedigree.

Crossing back on a pedigree ( linebreeding) you are concentrating the potential to reproduce not just that individual but the horses used in manufacture the desired product.

Think about this I have 2 linebred Nazeer bred mares. Nikki is so concentrated to this one particular sire that she is 29%....Now remember Nazeer was foaled in 1934 which was 75 years ago.

I have a stallion that is densely linebred 37% to Raffles which was crossed over on Ferzon/Mirage bred stock. Interesting to note that Raffles was foaled 1923 which is 86 years ago.

I think that the horses who came together to produce these stallions still have have an impact in today's produce. When I breed this mare to another stallion of similar background the percentage is still strong enough that Nazeer could be the resulting foals grandsire. It is making me strongly consider taking her to an Al Khamsa stallion.

I could count on hybrid vigor then if the types where the same.

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Cindy Caudle <cindyc@...> wrote:

From: Cindy Caudle <cindyc@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 6:16 PM
ï»¿
No matter how careful you plan no matter how careful you are matching up there is always the chance that an "oh my gads" will show up from the breeding

I leased 2 mares from a very very well know breeding program The mares were 3/4 sister in blood and very similar in looks their sire stamped his get and you could really tell they were his I wanted to breed them to an old stallion the went back to lines several generations back the mare owner thought it sounded like a good idea and agreed to send 2 mares 1 would breed both, keep the one I wanted and send the other back bred. The mares and stallion were similar in type and pedigree lines but not what I consider inbred

The resulting foal from the mare I kept always looked like he needed to grow into himself a bit but he drew attention and sold to another well know breeder who had a herd full of horses with similar pedigrees As the colt reached 2 it because very obvious the everything (and I really mean everything) that could have gone wrong with the breeding match had all the parts that should have matured and started to work together didn't they just never did he looked like the horse that had been put together by the committee everyone bring a piece wonderful disposition he was gelded and I think sold to a faimily for a gentle trail mount with out papers

I understand the other mare had a nice filly
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:23 PM

Subject: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type
I had a friend back in the 70's that dropped a small fortune to breed her mare to Napitok.

The mare was of good solid stock but the types were wrong. It was like mating a butterfly and a moth, both good looking creatures but they just do not mesh right.

Dharchanna was old foundation stock, she was a good quality broodmare with a level head on her. She was not a flashy mare but she was solid.

Napitok was completely different he was exotic in looks, a handsome horse. In my opinion Dharchanna her sire was Chanad a Hanad son and in my opinion she should have been taken to Pulque that foal would have been outstanding; but Kay had stars in her eyes for her friends at Zodiac Farms. The resulting foal was stamped strongly by Napitok but it was not blended right ( at least to me).

Anyway all Kay really cared about was that the foal be born a chestnut.

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:00 PM
ï»¿
Yes, it should always be about improving each generation, creating more perfect type and conformation. You are on the right track, using mares that suit your vision and breeding them to like stallions. It's more difficult when someone starts with a vision in their mind, but breeding stock that doesn't match it. They will spend more time and money trying to breed toward their goal from a lesser mare, than they would if they simply bought the right mare to begin with. Also would spare them from producing a couple of generations of horses that "aren't quite 'it' ", and having to decide what to do with those.
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
Thank you Dar!

That is the whole point isn't it to insure the genotype by only recognizing horses

that are pure in blood and in each generation selecting the desired phenotype.

I prefer to breed using the phenotype method. I want to use a mare that is strong in all the qualities I like and mate her to a stallion that matches those qualities. Plus he should be able to assist or correct those areas the mare needs help in. I don't care how good a mare is she will need all the help she can get to improve the next generation.

Both of my SE mares have been bred along pedigree lines they look so much alike that they are a matched pair. While they are not of the same parents they are close enough in bloodlines they could be sisters.

The Desert bred lines that they onced used at the EAO where sourced from the same area herds that the Davenport horses originated from. ( At least that is my understanding) .

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:52 AM
ï»¿
Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val
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#21978 From: Tim Graves <gtim75@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 2:56 am
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: Buna 5306 gtim75
Online Now
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Thanks Eva, I wasn't sure about who imported those first polish horses. Are those polish horses %100 EAF?

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Eva Dano <meranch@...> wrote:

From: Eva Dano <meranch@...>
Subject: [AFAHA] Re: Buna 5306
To: "Foundation" <FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 4:12 PM

> Thanks a lot Sue for the photo and info. on Buna, I was surprised to see
> his tail-female was polish. She must have been one of the Brown imports?

No, *Przepiorka was one of the Dickinson/Travelers Rest imports from Poland.
I can't off the top of my head think of any Polish horses imported by W.R.
Brown. He had some French imports and some Crabbet imports, and quite a few
davenports. You are probably thinking of the Babson Polish imports.

I believe that pic of Buna was one I scanned. There are several more on my
Fotki site: http://public.fotki.com/meranch/ They are indexed by reg #.

Eva Danø
Eva@...
http://www.meranch.com
(Check out my features on Skowronek and *Mirage)
(Also pictorial pedigrees of my horses and baby pix of Magic's first foal)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArabianBloodlinePreservation/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArabianAncestorsPics/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Versatile_Arabians/
http://public.fotki.com/meranch/

------------------------------------

EAF = 100% of lines trace to AHR nos. 1-2924. AF = 100% of lines trace to AHR nos. 1-16015. AFB = 75% of lines trace to AHR nos. 1-16015.Yahoo! Groups Links

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#21977 From: "Cindy Caudle" <cindyc@...>
Date: Thu Nov 12, 2009 12:16 am
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type cindyc@...
Send Email

ï»¿

No matter how careful you plan no matter how careful you are matching up there is always the chance that an "oh my gads" will show up from the breeding

I leased 2 mares from a very very well know breeding program The mares were 3/4 sister in blood and very similar in looks their sire stamped his get and you could really tell they were his I wanted to breed them to an old stallion the went back to lines several generations back the mare owner thought it sounded like a good idea and agreed to send 2 mares 1 would breed both, keep the one I wanted and send the other back bred. The mares and stallion were similar in type and pedigree lines but not what I consider inbred

The resulting foal from the mare I kept always looked like he needed to grow into himself a bit but he drew attention and sold to another well know breeder who had a herd full of horses with similar pedigrees As the colt reached 2 it because very obvious the everything (and I really mean everything) that could have gone wrong with the breeding match had all the parts that should have matured and started to work together didn't they just never did he looked like the horse that had been put together by the committee everyone bring a piece wonderful disposition he was gelded and I think sold to a faimily for a gentle trail mount with out papers

I understand the other mare had a nice filly

----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 1:23 PM

Subject: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type
I had a friend back in the 70's that dropped a small fortune to breed her mare to Napitok.

The mare was of good solid stock but the types were wrong. It was like mating a butterfly and a moth, both good looking creatures but they just do not mesh right.

Dharchanna was old foundation stock, she was a good quality broodmare with a level head on her. She was not a flashy mare but she was solid.

Napitok was completely different he was exotic in looks, a handsome horse. In my opinion Dharchanna her sire was Chanad a Hanad son and in my opinion she should have been taken to Pulque that foal would have been outstanding; but Kay had stars in her eyes for her friends at Zodiac Farms. The resulting foal was stamped strongly by Napitok but it was not blended right ( at least to me).

Anyway all Kay really cared about was that the foal be born a chestnut.

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@...> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:00 PM
ï»¿
Yes, it should always be about improving each generation, creating more perfect type and conformation. You are on the right track, using mares that suit your vision and breeding them to like stallions. It's more difficult when someone starts with a vision in their mind, but breeding stock that doesn't match it. They will spend more time and money trying to breed toward their goal from a lesser mare, than they would if they simply bought the right mare to begin with. Also would spare them from producing a couple of generations of horses that "aren't quite 'it' ", and having to decide what to do with those.
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
Thank you Dar!

That is the whole point isn't it to insure the genotype by only recognizing horses

that are pure in blood and in each generation selecting the desired phenotype.

I prefer to breed using the phenotype method. I want to use a mare that is strong in all the qualities I like and mate her to a stallion that matches those qualities. Plus he should be able to assist or correct those areas the mare needs help in. I don't care how good a mare is she will need all the help she can get to improve the next generation.

Both of my SE mares have been bred along pedigree lines they look so much alike that they are a matched pair. While they are not of the same parents they are close enough in bloodlines they could be sisters.

The Desert bred lines that they onced used at the EAO where sourced from the same area herds that the Davenport horses originated from. ( At least that is my understanding) .

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:52 AM
ï»¿
Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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#21976 From: suepstewart@...
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:51 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Perfection Was closer to asil suepstewrt
Offline
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AnitaW who needs a large fortune to get started. :D

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#21975 From: "Darcy Brown" <rockin@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:54 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type stable_minde...
Offline
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ï»¿

That would be like some QH people taking a race or pleasure type mare to a halter stallion, hoping to get a halter foal. It would be the first step in that direction, but not likely to get the end product in the first generation cross. Or, like another remark that I once read, don't breed a short stocky mare to a stretchy tall stallion hoping to get a tall stocky foal. You'll more likely get a short, lightly built foal. Yes, like to like for the best results.

----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 12:23 PM

Subject: [AFAHA] Breeding true to type
I had a friend back in the 70's that dropped a small fortune to breed her mare to Napitok.

The mare was of good solid stock but the types were wrong. It was like mating a butterfly and a moth, both good looking creatures but they just do not mesh right.

Dharchanna was old foundation stock, she was a good quality broodmare with a level head on her. She was not a flashy mare but she was solid.

Napitok was completely different he was exotic in looks, a handsome horse. In my opinion Dharchanna her sire was Chanad a Hanad son and in my opinion she should have been taken to Pulque that foal would have been outstanding; but Kay had stars in her eyes for her friends at Zodiac Farms. The resulting foal was stamped strongly by Napitok but it was not blended right ( at least to me).

Anyway all Kay really cared about was that the foal be born a chestnut.

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@...> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:00 PM
ï»¿
Yes, it should always be about improving each generation, creating more perfect type and conformation. You are on the right track, using mares that suit your vision and breeding them to like stallions. It's more difficult when someone starts with a vision in their mind, but breeding stock that doesn't match it. They will spend more time and money trying to breed toward their goal from a lesser mare, than they would if they simply bought the right mare to begin with. Also would spare them from producing a couple of generations of horses that "aren't quite 'it' ", and having to decide what to do with those.
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
Thank you Dar!

That is the whole point isn't it to insure the genotype by only recognizing horses

that are pure in blood and in each generation selecting the desired phenotype.

I prefer to breed using the phenotype method. I want to use a mare that is strong in all the qualities I like and mate her to a stallion that matches those qualities. Plus he should be able to assist or correct those areas the mare needs help in. I don't care how good a mare is she will need all the help she can get to improve the next generation.

Both of my SE mares have been bred along pedigree lines they look so much alike that they are a matched pair. While they are not of the same parents they are close enough in bloodlines they could be sisters.

The Desert bred lines that they onced used at the EAO where sourced from the same area herds that the Davenport horses originated from. ( At least that is my understanding) .

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:52 AM
ï»¿
Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val

#21974 From: ew <ewestfall@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:31 pm
Subject: [AFAHA] Perfection Was closer to asil ewestfallewe...
Offline
Send Email

I have always liked Mesaoud. Just think what one could accomplish if frozen
semen was available from him today. One could gather together a herd of
complimentary mares and using phenotype selection together with genetic testing
to breed the best to the best of succeeding generations and develop a really
exceptional breeding group.

AnitaW who needs a large fortune to get started. :D

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#21973 From: Vallrie Sweeney <absolutelyremarkable@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:23 pm
Subject: Breeding true to type absolutelyre...
Offline
Send Email

I had a friend back in the 70's that dropped a small fortune to breed her mare to Napitok.

The mare was of good solid stock but the types were wrong. It was like mating a butterfly and a moth, both good looking creatures but they just do not mesh right.

Dharchanna was old foundation stock, she was a good quality broodmare with a level head on her. She was not a flashy mare but she was solid.

Napitok was completely different he was exotic in looks, a handsome horse. In my opinion Dharchanna her sire was Chanad a Hanad son and in my opinion she should have been taken to Pulque that foal would have been outstanding; but Kay had stars in her eyes for her friends at Zodiac Farms. The resulting foal was stamped strongly by Napitok but it was not blended right ( at least to me).

Anyway all Kay really cared about was that the foal be born a chestnut.

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@...> wrote:

From: Darcy Brown <rockin@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:00 PM
ï»¿
Yes, it should always be about improving each generation, creating more perfect type and conformation. You are on the right track, using mares that suit your vision and breeding them to like stallions. It's more difficult when someone starts with a vision in their mind, but breeding stock that doesn't match it. They will spend more time and money trying to breed toward their goal from a lesser mare, than they would if they simply bought the right mare to begin with. Also would spare them from producing a couple of generations of horses that "aren't quite 'it' ", and having to decide what to do with those.
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
Thank you Dar!

That is the whole point isn't it to insure the genotype by only recognizing horses

that are pure in blood and in each generation selecting the desired phenotype.

I prefer to breed using the phenotype method. I want to use a mare that is strong in all the qualities I like and mate her to a stallion that matches those qualities. Plus he should be able to assist or correct those areas the mare needs help in. I don't care how good a mare is she will need all the help she can get to improve the next generation.

Both of my SE mares have been bred along pedigree lines they look so much alike that they are a matched pair. While they are not of the same parents they are close enough in bloodlines they could be sisters.

The Desert bred lines that they onced used at the EAO where sourced from the same area herds that the Davenport horses originated from. ( At least that is my understanding) .

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@molalla. net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:52 AM
ï»¿
Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val

#21972 From: "Darcy Brown" <rockin@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:00 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil stable_minde...
Offline
Send Email

ï»¿

Yes, it should always be about improving each generation, creating more perfect type and conformation. You are on the right track, using mares that suit your vision and breeding them to like stallions. It's more difficult when someone starts with a vision in their mind, but breeding stock that doesn't match it. They will spend more time and money trying to breed toward their goal from a lesser mare, than they would if they simply bought the right mare to begin with. Also would spare them from producing a couple of generations of horses that "aren't quite 'it' ", and having to decide what to do with those.

----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:44 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
Thank you Dar!

That is the whole point isn't it to insure the genotype by only recognizing horses

that are pure in blood and in each generation selecting the desired phenotype.

I prefer to breed using the phenotype method. I want to use a mare that is strong in all the qualities I like and mate her to a stallion that matches those qualities. Plus he should be able to assist or correct those areas the mare needs help in. I don't care how good a mare is she will need all the help she can get to improve the next generation.

Both of my SE mares have been bred along pedigree lines they look so much alike that they are a matched pair. While they are not of the same parents they are close enough in bloodlines they could be sisters.

The Desert bred lines that they onced used at the EAO where sourced from the same area herds that the Davenport horses originated from. ( At least that is my understanding).

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@...> wrote:
From: Darcy Brown <rockin@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:52 AM
ï»¿
Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val

#21971 From: Vallrie Sweeney <absolutelyremarkable@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:44 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil absolutelyre...
Offline
Send Email

Thank you Dar!

That is the whole point isn't it to insure the genotype by only recognizing horses

that are pure in blood and in each generation selecting the desired phenotype.

I prefer to breed using the phenotype method. I want to use a mare that is strong in all the qualities I like and mate her to a stallion that matches those qualities. Plus he should be able to assist or correct those areas the mare needs help in. I don't care how good a mare is she will need all the help she can get to improve the next generation.

Both of my SE mares have been bred along pedigree lines they look so much alike that they are a matched pair. While they are not of the same parents they are close enough in bloodlines they could be sisters.

The Desert bred lines that they onced used at the EAO where sourced from the same area herds that the Davenport horses originated from. ( At least that is my understanding).

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Darcy Brown <rockin@...> wrote:

From: Darcy Brown <rockin@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 10:52 AM
ï»¿
Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar
----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@ gtmc.net>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHo rses@yahoogroups .com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val

#21970 From: Vallrie Sweeney <absolutelyremarkable@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:21 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil absolutelyre...
Offline
Send Email

I need to write more clearly. I wished that Asil denoted both purity and phenotype.

Val

--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Tim Graves <gtim75@...> wrote:

From: Tim Graves <gtim75@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 8:40 AM
Asil has absoloutley nothing to do with type, it is a word used by the bedouins to describe purity without question. The Germans borrowed the word to use on there horses that had no questionable line in there pedigree. I have read and seen this word used for pure desert breeding for 30 years now. Gladys Brown Edwards was a great lady and a true friend to the arabian horse but was very wrong in this instance.--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:18 PM
No. The word Asil has nothing to do with type of any kind its only meaning is how pure in blood (no blood that is in question has ever been crossed in) the horse is.

Type, quality and how a horse moves is all together a different thing, but has nothing to do with the word Asil.

And you are right just because a name is in a pedigree that does not make the horse you are looking at a quality horse. But again it has nothing to do with using the term Asil.

Even with in the Asil horses there are good quality horses and no so good quality horses. You really should check out the link to the Daughters of the wind that Anita posted. It will help you under stand the word Asil. People from all over the world post there even Bedouin breeders of today who are still breeding Asil desert Arabians.

Marie
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2495 - Release Date: 11/10/09 13:56:00

#21969 From: "Darcy Brown" <rockin@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:52 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil stable_minde...
Offline
Send Email

ï»¿

Val,

I agree wholeheartedly with what you said here. I was involved in another breed that has in the past few years taken an interest in preserving their foundation lines. They tend to shun halter classes, thinking that it encouraged an artificial type. Hence, their horses, while having lovely foundation pedigrees, are often so off-type for their breed that to describe them as mediocre is being kind. One must consider the quality of type and conformation, among other things.

Dar

----- Original Message -----

From: Vallrie Sweeney

To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:43 AM

Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...> wrote:
From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val

#21968 From: "Darcy Brown" <rockin@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:47 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: Define Asil Arabian please stable_minde...
Offline
Send Email

Good morning, Eva -

Although I've not asked you for any information (yet :)! ), I wanted to
thank you for providing it to those of us on this list. I've learned a lot
from reading your posts. Every group should be so fortunate as to have an
educator like you among them.

Darci
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eva Dano" <meranch@...>
To: "Foundation" <FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:20 AM
Subject: [AFAHA] Re: Define Asil Arabian please


>> The "Asil" Club parallels Al Khamsa of the U.S.???
>
> Yes, that is essentially correct, though I am not aware that the Asil Club
> keep a list of all the acceptable foundation animals the way Al Khamsa
> does.
> Having such a list makes it easier to validate whether a given horse
> belongs
> in the group.  There are a few ancestors that ended up in my database as
> "presumed Asil, but not verified".
>
> Eva
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> EAF = 100% of lines trace to AHR nos. 1-2924.  AF = 100% of lines trace to
> AHR nos. 1-16015.  AFB = 75% of lines trace to AHR nos. 1-16015.Yahoo!
> Groups Links
>
>
>
>

#21967 From: "Eva Dano" <meranch@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:15 pm
Subject: Re: closer to asil meranch
Offline
Send Email

> Aren't they also the highest Percentage Abbas Pasha? maybe even "straight"
> Blunt? Or am I misremembering again. ;>

Hi Anita,

Yeah, definitely Straight Blunt.  And high percentage Abbas Pasha sounds
right, though I couldn't swear to "highest".

Eva

#21966 From: "Eva Dano" <meranch@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:20 pm
Subject: Re: Define Asil Arabian please meranch
Offline
Send Email

> The "Asil" Club parallels Al Khamsa of the U.S.???

Yes, that is essentially correct, though I am not aware that the Asil Club
keep a list of all the acceptable foundation animals the way Al Khamsa does.
Having such a list makes it easier to validate whether a given horse belongs
in the group.  There are a few ancestors that ended up in my database as
"presumed Asil, but not verified".

Eva

#21965 From: "Eva Dano" <meranch@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:12 pm
Subject: Re: Buna 5306 meranch
Offline
Send Email

> Thanks a lot Sue for the photo and info. on Buna, I was surprised to see
> his tail-female was polish. She must have been one of the Brown imports?

No, *Przepiorka was one of the Dickinson/Travelers Rest imports from Poland.
I can't off the top of my head think of any Polish horses imported by W.R.
Brown.  He had some French imports and some Crabbet imports, and quite a few
davenports.  You are probably thinking of the Babson Polish imports.

I believe that pic of Buna was one I scanned.  There are several more on my
Fotki site:  http://public.fotki.com/meranch/   They are indexed by reg #.

Eva Danø
  Eva@...
  http://www.meranch.com
  (Check out my features on Skowronek and *Mirage)
  (Also pictorial pedigrees of my horses and baby pix of Magic's first foal)
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArabianBloodlinePreservation/
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ArabianAncestorsPics/
  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Versatile_Arabians/
  http://public.fotki.com/meranch/

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (8)

#21964 From: Tim Graves <gtim75@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:40 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil gtim75
Online Now
Send Email

Asil has absoloutley nothing to do with type, it is a word used by the bedouins to describe purity without question. The Germans borrowed the word to use on there horses that had no questionable line in there pedigree. I have read and seen this word used for pure desert breeding for 30 years now. Gladys Brown Edwards was a great lady and a true friend to the arabian horse but was very wrong in this instance.--- On Wed, 11/11/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...> wrote:

From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 2:18 PM
No. The word Asil has nothing to do with type of any kind its only meaning is how pure in blood (no blood that is in question has ever been crossed in) the horse is.

Type, quality and how a horse moves is all together a different thing, but has nothing to do with the word Asil.

And you are right just because a name is in a pedigree that does not make the horse you are looking at a quality horse. But again it has nothing to do with using the term Asil.

Even with in the Asil horses there are good quality horses and no so good quality horses. You really should check out the link to the Daughters of the wind that Anita posted. It will help you under stand the word Asil. People from all over the world post there even Bedouin breeders of today who are still breeding Asil desert Arabians.

Marie
I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2495 - Release Date: 11/10/09 13:56:00

#21963 From: "Renaissance IV" <Renaissance@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:18 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil shtika
Offline
Send Email

No. The word Asil has nothing to do with type of any kind its only meaning is how pure in blood (no blood that is in question has ever been crossed in) the horse is.

Type, quality and how a horse moves is all together a different thing, but has nothing to do with the word Asil.

And you are right just because a name is in a pedigree that does not make the horse you are looking at a quality horse. But again it has nothing to do with using the term Asil.

Even with in the Asil horses there are good quality horses and no so good quality horses. You really should check out the link to the Daughters of the wind that Anita posted. It will help you under stand the word Asil. People from all over the world post there even Bedouin breeders of today who are still breeding Asil desert Arabians.

Marie

I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 9.0.704 / Virus Database: 270.14.60/2495 - Release Date: 11/10/09 13:56:00

#21962 From: Vallrie Sweeney <absolutelyremarkable@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:43 pm
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil absolutelyre...
Offline
Send Email

I am of the opinion that it has been a long time since names on a pedigree

is what it takes to insure quality. I have seen too many horses with

excellent pedigrees that did not make the grade in quality. If the term Asil

is left to just mean the bloodline then we are leaving too much out of the

equation to arrive at the correct answer.

Asil must also mean a strict type standard.

Val

--- On Tue, 11/10/09, Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...> wrote:

From: Renaissance IV <Renaissance@...>
Subject: Re: [AFAHA] Re: closer to asil
To: FoundationArabianHorses@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 10, 2009, 1:39 PM
No Asil (Pure) is not about type at all it is about how pure the blood lines are. In Arabic Asil or 'A means pure and original. (it also means the person who has good manners "gentle, generous and brave" and "soft cheeks".)

Our Davenport horses of today are Asil (pure) but also Jowad (a Arabian horse verified to be exclusively of the original and Asil (pure) desert Arabian). For a horse to be Jowad it must have a Arabic Hujaj (A written testimonials of purity by more than one person). Most if not all of the horses imported by Davenport had a Hujaj accompanying then as well as a few other American foundation horses.

Jowad is an old Bedouin word that was used before the time of the Prophet Mohammed to designate there pure verified Arabians.

Marie
Remember the paintings of Gladys Brown Edwards? According to

that article Asil is classic type.

It is an eye-opener if you thinkabout it that way. Abu Farwa, Kimfa, Hanad, Fadjur, Raffon, El Gato, all of these horses would have been pure Asil in type.

I saw Lawmoss in the late 80's he was Asil in type.

Val

NetPosse.com IDAHO Alert GA: Silver Longhorn 3H BP SL Trailer - Gwinnett Cnty - 10/30/09
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2009 SILVER LONGHORN 3-HORSE, SLANT LOAD, BUMPER PULL STOCK TRAILER

#21961 From: mickiebon <mickiebon@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 4:29 am
Subject: NetPosse.com IDAHO Alert - GA - Stolen Silver Longhorn Trailer & Tack - Gwinnett County - Oct. 30, 2009 mickie_bon
Offline
Send Email

Stolen Horse International Inc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stolen Horse International Inc.
NetPosse.com IDAHO Alert

GA Stolen Silver Longhorn Trailer November 10, 2009
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

More info:

http://netposse.com/stolenmissing/stolentrailer/TrailerGAstolenOct09.html

Lock on pasture gate was cut in half, lock on hitch was cut and trailer was taken. There were 3 Western saddles, headstalls, and other miscellaneous tack in the tack compartment. Please post flyers as instructed below and watch for these tack items at local sales and online auction sites!

Please go to the link above and:

- Print a flyer and post in your community
- If you attend auctions take them with you and post (Just in case he didn't get out on his own or if someone has him and doesn't know where he belongs.)

A stolen trailers and tack can be quickly taken across statelines. The trailer could be scrapped for metal or tack could be sold at pawn shops, online, etc.

Please pass this to your associations, list groups, council members, friends and ask them to do the same. Don't forget about public sites like craigslist, livedeal, twitter etc but remember to to link the info to NetPosse.com so people can print the flyer and read the updates.

Don't be a VICTIM! Learn how to protect your horses and property from theft at www.NetPosse.com.

Contact Information

stolenhorse@... www.netposse.com phone: 704-484-2165

Stolen Horse International, Inc.
NetPosse.com
PO Box 1341, Shelby, NC 28151

http://www.cafepress.com/mickiebon

Quick Links...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our Website

Products

Services

Michelle Gordon (aka mickiebon)

Picture This! by mickiebon - Art Photography

Stolen Horse International ( SHI /NetPosse) Volunteer

http://www.netposse.com

Indiana Horse Council - Equine Welfare Committee

http://www.indianahorsecouncil.org/Welfare/equine_welfare.htm

Equine Rescues post your Alerts, News, Info., etc... here: (Updated Indiana Hay For Sale lists & a free Basic Horse Care packet are also located on this group in the files section)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Equine_Rescue_Alerts_News_Info/

"Nobody got anywhere in the world by simply being content." -Louis L'Amour

NetPosse.com IDAHO Alert TX: Mini Donkey Colt inside STOLEN TRAILER w/Truck - Mesquite - Oct. 27, 2009

#21960 From: mickiebon <mickiebon@...>
Date: Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:54 am
Subject: NetPosse.com IDAHO Alert - TX - DONKEY RECOVERED! mickie_bon
Offline
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Stolen Horse International Inc.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Stolen Horse International Inc.
NetPosse.com IDAHO Alert

TX Stolen Mini Donkey - RECOVERED November 10, 2009
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SUNNY HAS BEEN RECOVERED AS OF NOVEMBER 9, 2009!

TRUCK has also been recovered, but TRAILER IS STILL MISSING ... more info at link below or: http://www.netposse.com/stolentrailers.htm

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NetPosse.com Donkey Truck & Trailer Stolen Mesquite Texas

More info:

http://www.netposse.com/stolenmissing/DonkeyTruckTrailerTXstolenOct09.html

We got Sunny back today! A man saw him running down a busy road in a neighboring town. He stopped and caught him and took him home and put him in his garage. He bought a big bag of oats, and fed him and said Sunny woofed it down like he had not eaten in days. The man who found him had a 5 year old daughter, and she fell in love with him, and petted him all day. The man then emailed us and Ed was there this morning, first thing. Sunny was so happy to see Ed, he wrapped himself around him.

... Sunny made a bee line for his mother, when he got home. He is a little wary now, but still very affectionate. The only thing that was bad, he has a raw place on his nose from them leaving the halter on for two weeks, and he is a little skinny. He now does NOT want the halter on. I think he was tied up somewhere for those two weeks. I sure wish I knew what he went thru.

The trailer is still missing, but with our great fortune and your help, maybe that will be found also. I am just so happy about Sunny though, and we can buy another trailer.

Angela

Please go to the link above and:

- Print a flyer and post in your community for this STOLEN TRAILER
- If you attend auctions take them with you and post (Just in case she didn't get out on his own or if someone has her and doesn't know where she belongs.)

Please pass this to your associations, list groups, council members, friends and ask them to do the same. Don't forget about public sites like craigslist, livedeal, twitter etc but remember to to link the info to NetPosse.com so people can print the flyer and read the updates.

Don't be a VICTIM! Learn how to protect your horses and property from theft at www.NetPosse.com.

Contact Information

stolenhorse@... www.netposse.com phone: 704-484-2165

Stolen Horse International, Inc.
NetPosse.com
PO Box 1341, Shelby, NC 28151

http://www.cafepress.com/mickiebon

Quick Links...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our Website

Products

Services

Michelle Gordon (aka mickiebon)

Picture This! by mickiebon - Art Photography

Stolen Horse International ( SHI /NetPosse) Volunteer

http://www.netposse.com

Indiana Horse Council - Equine Welfare Committee

http://www.indianahorsecouncil.org/Welfare/equine_welfare.htm

Equine Rescues post your Alerts, News, Info., etc... here: (Updated Indiana Hay For Sale lists & a free Basic Horse Care packet are also located on this group in the files section)

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Equine_Rescue_Alerts_News_Info/

"Nobody got anywhere in the world by simply being content." -Louis L'Amour