Chris thanks for the tips. I usually do fly Manzi in the evening right before
the sun goes down. I can change that and start flying Manzi mid-day. There is a
new park I went to with Rey, but Manzi didn't do that great. He flew within
visual distance of me for the first 45 minutes and then he flew out of sight. I
went after him and after 30 minutes he finally came down from a high tree.

Thanks for the input about hawks.

Think instead..... "NOT flying where hawks are seen to be flying!" or "Not
flying where you can't see a hawk flying!"

Find areas of "greater visibility"... areas where you can see hawks at a
greater distance and not be surprised by their appearance!!! This may not be
a treeless area.... but an area of greater visible safety. If your standing
under the only trees that around for a mile.... than you should be able to
see anything approaching these trees from any direction.... this would be a
nice spot.

Big open farm fields are often good.... provide the field lines or fence
lines have no trees that can allow hawks to sneak up on ya and watch ya from
a close spot to evaluate it's 'prey' or to make an ambush from!!!

Sometimes a busy city park can be great for flying our friends.... sometimes
they are a trap!!!

If raptor numbers and sightings are high....then look for places that are
NOT A TRAP!!!! Places that allow for retreat BEFORE a raptor is in range to
be considered a threat! Your bird can see a considerable distance.... DON'T
handicap this ability, take advantage of it and allow your bird a place to
see approaching danger BEFORE it's too late.

Dan (and The Bandit.... who can see transcontinental flights in the
stratosphere!!!)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: adele_deleon
   To: Freeflight@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 9:14 PM
   Subject: [Freeflight] Re: Juvenile Red Tail or Red Shouldered

    What is that? The only thing I can think of is not to fly outside.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Adult raptors are HIGHLY skilled! They look for mistakes by prey and they
look for what is known to be easy prey. They need ALOT during nesting
season, and like Curtis says... "They will hunt ALL day long!"

This is NOT a good time to be training a new young flyer outdoors!!!

An older experienced bird displays it's skills and abilities and MAY not be
considered much by mature adult raptors.... unless a mistake is made!!! This
is a risk we always have to consider.

But at this time of year.... many raptors are migrating.... and many of
these are first time migrators, the juveniles and immature that are VERY
unpredictable!!! These are the scary ones!!! AND.... many might consider
grounding flights during this time of year in certain locations!!!

Dan (and The Bandit)


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Curtis White
   To: Freeflight@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 10:45 PM
   Subject: Re: [Freeflight] Re: Juvenile Red Tail or Red Shouldered

   .....Personally if there were any time that I were going to ground my
birds it
   would probably be during nesting season as the raptors will hunt more
   aggressively then to make sure their babies are well fed. Also they will
   hunt all day long which doesn't really leave any safe times during the day
   to fly.

   Curtis

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

While it may be that juveniles and immatures are less skilled.... they are
CERTAINLY far more aggressive and less selective in their choice of targets!
I feel that this makes them especially dangerous for our companion flyers.

It's hard to avoid such encounters.... but we always make efforts to reduce
risks!!!

WATCH YOUR SURROUNDINGS more than Manzi!!! It's awesome to watch Manzi
fly... but your videos show that Manzi IS a VERY capable flyer and you
should be providing the extra eyes to help provide the safety that is more
necessary now than the guidance that was once needed of you. Manzi doesn't
seem to be inclined to leave sight of you, and seems to know when your
serious of a demanded recall and when your not. DO you have a good contact
call with Manzi??? A call that Manzi will call back to and vice versa???
This will allow you to know where Manzi is WITHOUT looking... or when your
looking beyond the area for possible dangers.

I think Manzi's a good flyer.... CERTAINLY more experienced now! So let
Manzi fly and have some fun WITHOUT your distraction.... then you can have
TWO sets of eyes watching for hawks and dogs and such. If danger is
threatening or impending, THEN request that 'serious recall' that I'm sure
Manzi will respond to immediately!!! If your distracted by worries of Manzi
flying from sight.... than you'll never see the dangers nearby that may be
serious. Your occasional contact calls to one another will let you know
where each other are... trust in these a bit more, they'll help ALOT!

Dan (and The Bandit.... who IS NOT ready for ANY such encounter!!!)

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Chris Biro
   To: Freeflight@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 8:38 PM
   Subject: Re: [Freeflight] Juvenile Red Tail or Red Shouldered




   On Nov 11, 2009, at 5:07 PM, adele_deleon wrote:

   > On the other hand, if they are juveniles, they might not be as good
   > at catching prey and maybe I shouldn't worry so much. Well, I can't
   > help but worry when a raptor gets within an arms distance of my
   > Grey. I know some people recommended finding a place without
   > raptors, but as previously stated, that is not possible. Maybe
   > instead I should find a large gym or auditorium for him to fly in.

   You want to avoid raptor encounters when ever possible. Though you are
   correct that a juvenile is likely to be less adept at catching prey so
   to some degree a juvenile may not be as much of a threat than a
   seasoned adult. BUT, some of those juvenile hawks will survive because
   they WILL catch prey. So don't think for a moment that a juvenile hawk
   is to be disregarded or considered low threat. Do what you can to
   avoid them.

   The good part of this though is that Manzi probably is learning a lot
   about hawk threats from each of these encounters. That is a major
   plus in dealing with future hawk attacks.

   Parrots: more than pets, friends for life.

   Chris Biro
   chris@...
   (206) 618-2610
   www.wingsatliberty.com






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 11, 2009, at 8:45 PM, Curtis White wrote:

> Personally if there were any time that I were going to ground my
> birds it
> would probably be during nesting season as the raptors will hunt more
> aggressively then to make sure their babies are well fed. Also they
> will
> hunt all day long which doesn't really leave any safe times during
> the day
> to fly.

Steve Layman and I have discussed this many times. He thinks that
during nesting season we are not at much of an increase of risk due to
the fact that nesting season is also when everything else, common prey
such as rabbits and squirrels for example, are also breeding. This
means more potential meals and easier targets are available.

Of course any hawk, with babies to feed or not, could consider having
a try at a punk rock colored bird wobbling around in the area.

Parrots: more than pets, friends for life.

Chris Biro
chris@...
(206) 618-2610
www.wingsatliberty.com

REMEMBER.... little steps! Don't PUSH IT!!

The Bandit (Nanday) loves the back of his head and neck, preened and
scritched. He might squawk a warning if he thinks your grabbing at him and
maybe even 'grab back', but once he realizes that it's not a grab, he's very
acceptable to such advances and usually lowers his head and stretches his
neck for ya.

This is more likely when their neck is thick with 'pins' and no one's around
to preen the hard to reach places. Especially it they find you to be a good
'preener'! His winter feather is fully in now, almost like thick fur, but he
likes preening attention anyway. When giving this attention, a move down the
side or jus under the wing, is sometimes accepted... sometimes met with a
reprimanding 'grab', just to remind you what is acceptable. YOU have to
understand this behavior and might have to accept a little reminding of what
is "OK" and what isn't at that time.... which may be different at another
time! Don't go beyond the boundaries that are acceptable to both of you,
until they are ready... and they'll let you know! Some birds jus don't like
being touched or petted there!!! And YOU will learn!!! (They will too!)

Being able to fly means, "I can go when I want!"... grabbing means "I CAN'T
ESCAPE!!!" A lot of birds will put up a fuss when grabbed or if they think
they're being grabbed... some will continue to struggle and raise daylights
with ya!!! It took a loooonnngg time before The Bandit "allowed" me to hold
him securely... he now feels protected in this manner of handling. He knows
he can't escape... but he also knows that no harm is intended either!!! It
also took a loooong time before we established... "DEAD BIRD!" (laying
quietly on his back, in a cradled hand), sometimes I'll ask for a 'wing
check' in this position and am allowed to stretch a wing out to check
feathering and such... and pretty soon we may have the "gentle toss" from
hand to hand as you may have seen Chris B demonstrate with some of his
birds.... like he says, "I takes a LOT of confidence in a bird to feel such
security in his friend!!!" The Bandit is an older rescue of unknown origin
and previous life circumstances... he's still a very nervous and skittish
bird and it's taken a great deal of time and patience for BOTH of us, to
acquire such confidence in one another.

Strange as it is... The Bandit isn't much for cuddling in clothes or
blankets yet (although we play tug-o-war with cloth of all sorts), this is
in great contrast to many of the other conures I've worked with that love to
crawl into shirts and under pillows and blankets much as Susan describes.

Ya got TWO very different and unique personalities that you'll have to
understand with some acceptance and great compassion.... and I gotta agree,
it MAY (or may not) have little to do with early breeder treatment. But
they're young! And they will GROW with YOU!!! And likely faster than you can
keep up with!!!

Step by step... bit by bit... and that clicker will surely help!!!!

Dan (and The Bandit)

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: susanhilliard
   To: Freeflight@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 2009 5:36 PM
   Subject: Re: [Freeflight] Arrow and Jumper (new conures)



   Hi Jillian,

   Welcome and congratulations on your new conures.

   Your account of their behavior in your home sounds pretty normal to
   me. I'll bet they will completely recover from their apprehension of
   hands. What the breeder did was not right and is one of the reasons
   Chris advises people to get their birds as young as they can manage to
   take care of them. There are many really good breeders out there but
   there are also some not so good ones too. If you searched for a fiery
   shouldered conure (please post a picture because I've never seen one)
   then you probably had to buy what you found without much choice. We
   have parrots from not-so-goods breeders too. They have all matured
   just fine. Just keep on making positive experiences with them and
   don't grab them. Start clicker training them and it will help a lot
   with being able to touch them. However, none of my conures like to be
   petted and scratched. They like to burrow down in the warm and dark
   of my clothes or under my hair; they like to ride on my shoulders; and
   they let me handle them however I need to (the over the back grab is
   not popular but is tolerated.) They like their beak rubbed a little.
   But yours may never like to be petted and it may have nothing to do
   with the breeder's treatment. Again, clicker training them is going
   to be your fastest way to get Arrow to allow you to touch her/him.
   Jumper may be more handleable at this stage simply due to the month
   age difference. It can make a big difference with such a youngster.
   Please do send us photos to the flightphoto list. Very cute names.

   Susan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 8:16 PM, Chris Biro <chrisbiro@...> wrote:
>
>
> >> CHRIS B. WROTE : So don't think for a moment that a juvenile hawk
>
> >> is to be disregarded or considered low threat. Do what you can to
> >> avoid them.
> >>
> >
> > What is that? The only thing I can think of is not to fly outside.
>
> If you are going to fly parrots outdoors successfully, you are going
> to have to learn to think more creatively than this.
>
> The first thing is simply look for places to fly that have less trees
> for hawks to use as cover. Farmers fields, baseball fields, school
> playgrounds, etc. Hawks can use the trees to block being seen as they
> to get close and come up to attack speed.
>
> Consider the time of day so that you are not flying near the fall of
> long shadows. Hawks can use the horizon and the sun to come in
> undetected.

Also hawks/falcons tend to hunt primarily in the morning just after it gets
light and the evening just before dark. During the day the tend to spend
more time snoozing or soaring and not so much hunting. This doesn't mean it
is 100% safe during the day, just more safe than mornings and evenings. Note
that during nesting season this changes, though, and they will hunt all day
long to keep their babies fed.

Personally if there were any time that I were going to ground my birds it
would probably be during nesting season as the raptors will hunt more
aggressively then to make sure their babies are well fed. Also they will
hunt all day long which doesn't really leave any safe times during the day
to fly.


Curtis


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Nov 11, 2009, at 7:14 PM, adele_deleon wrote:

>> CHRIS B. WROTE : So don't think for a moment that a juvenile hawk
>> is to be disregarded or considered low threat. Do what you can to
>> avoid them.
>>
>
> What is that? The only thing I can think of is not to fly outside.

If you are going to fly parrots outdoors successfully, you are going
to have to learn to think more creatively than this.

The first thing is simply look for places to fly that have less trees
for hawks to use as cover. Farmers fields, baseball fields, school
playgrounds, etc. Hawks can use the trees to block being seen as they
to get close and come up to attack speed.

Consider the time of day so that you are not flying near the fall of
long shadows. Hawks can use the horizon and the sun to come in
undetected.

We rarely fly our birds here in Washington except at events we are
hired for or the occasional venture to the park to work on young
flyers. I used to fly them here more but after discovering how
wonderful it is to fly in wide open places with little hawk threats
(Moab) we do most of our flying there.

We are only here in Washington again now because we are not yet set up
in Moab for winter. Here is where my aviary is so here is where we are
for winter. Come spring I'll build the new aviary in Moab and this one
will become our back up aviary. 80+ birds are not easy to find
temporary housing when crisis situations strike so I am very happy to
have this as our back up.

Keeping parrots is a lot like keeping horses, you really need the
right set up for what you want to do. Finding good flying locations is
part of this too.

Parrots: more than pets, friends for life.

Chris Biro
chris@...
(206) 618-2610
www.wingsatliberty.com

Permission to post from list owner. Thanks Chris!



Please pass around for more views.




The video HSUS doesn't want you to see is back on UTube - HURRAH!!!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTj1T31dOAM
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTj1T31dOAM&feature=player_embedded>
&feature=player_embedded





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> You want to avoid raptor encounters when ever possible. Though you are
> correct that a juvenile is likely to be less adept at catching prey so
> to some degree a juvenile may not be as much of a threat than a
> seasoned adult. BUT, some of those juvenile hawks will survive because
> they WILL catch prey. So don't think for a moment that a juvenile hawk
> is to be disregarded or considered low threat. Do what you can to
> avoid them.
>

What is that? The only thing I can think of is not to fly outside.


> The good part of this though is that  Manzi probably is learning a lot
> about hawk threats from each of these encounters.  That is a major
> plus in dealing with future hawk attacks.
>
> Parrots: more than pets, friends for life.
>
> Chris Biro
> chris@...
> (206) 618-2610
> www.wingsatliberty.com
>

On Nov 11, 2009, at 3:36 PM, susanhilliard wrote:

>  However, none of my conures like to be
> petted and scratched.  They like to burrow down in the warm and dark
> of my clothes or under my hair; they like to ride on my shoulders; and
> they let me handle them however I need to (the over the back grab is
> not popular but is tolerated.) They like their beak rubbed a little.
> But yours may never like to be petted and it may have nothing to do
> with the breeder's treatment.


Conures can learn to be very snuggly and affectionate birds. They are
naturally very social so it is not hard to create cuddly conures. We
have a flock of conures and they spend more time with each other than
with us so that complicates things a bit. But if we were to do more
training with them, they would learn to be snuggly too.

Parrots: more than pets, friends for life.

Chris Biro
chris@...
(206) 618-2610
www.wingsatliberty.com

On Nov 11, 2009, at 5:07 PM, adele_deleon wrote:

> On the other hand, if they are juveniles, they might not be as good
> at catching prey and maybe I shouldn't worry so much. Well, I can't
> help but worry when a raptor gets within an arms distance of my
> Grey. I know some people recommended finding a place without
> raptors, but as previously stated, that is not possible. Maybe
> instead I should find a large gym or auditorium for him to fly in.

You want to avoid raptor encounters when ever possible. Though you are
correct that a juvenile is likely to be less adept at catching prey so
to some degree a juvenile may not be as much of a threat than a
seasoned adult. BUT, some of those juvenile hawks will survive because
they WILL catch prey. So don't think for a moment that a juvenile hawk
is to be disregarded or considered low threat. Do what you can to
avoid them.

The good part of this though is that  Manzi probably is learning a lot
about hawk threats from each of these encounters.  That is a major
plus in dealing with future hawk attacks.

Parrots: more than pets, friends for life.

Chris Biro
chris@...
(206) 618-2610
www.wingsatliberty.com

Today a juvenile hawk went after him. A neighbor/bird watcher said it was either
a red tail or red shouldered, but he didn't get a close enough look. He was able
to see it was a juvenile. It got within an arms distance of Manzi. Manzi was
flying screaming very loud. The hawk was 3-4 times his size. It was huge
compared with the falcon that went after him. I'm not sure how I can find a
place without raptors. It seems they are all throughout my area even if I drive
for hours. I might have to keep Manzi grounded for a month or so. I am very
nervous about flying him with raptors chasing him. On the other hand, if they
are juveniles, they might not be as good at catching prey and maybe I shouldn't
worry so much. Well, I can't help but worry when a raptor gets within an arms
distance of my Grey. I know some people recommended finding a place without
raptors, but as previously stated, that is not possible. Maybe instead I should
find a large gym or auditorium for him to fly in.

Hi Jillian,

Welcome and congratulations on your new conures.

Your account of their behavior in your home sounds pretty normal to
me.  I'll bet they will completely recover from their apprehension of
hands.  What the breeder did was not right and is one of the reasons
Chris advises people to get their birds as young as they can manage to
take care of them.  There are many really good breeders out there but
there are also some not so good ones too. If you searched for a fiery
shouldered conure (please post a picture because I've never seen one)
then you probably had to buy what you found without much choice. We
have parrots from not-so-goods breeders too.  They have all matured
just fine.  Just keep on making positive experiences with them and
don't grab them.  Start clicker training them and it will help a lot
with being able to touch them.  However, none of my conures like to be
petted and scratched.  They like to burrow down in the warm and dark
of my clothes or under my hair; they like to ride on my shoulders; and
they let me handle them however I need to (the over the back grab is
not popular but is tolerated.) They like their beak rubbed a little.
But yours may never like to be petted and it may have nothing to do
with the breeder's treatment.  Again, clicker training them is going
to be your fastest way to get Arrow to allow you to touch her/him.
Jumper may be more handleable at this stage simply due to the month
age difference.  It can make a big difference with such a youngster.
Please do send us photos to the flightphoto list. Very cute names.

Susan


On Nov 11, 2009, at 2:43 PM, Jillian Schwab wrote:

> Hi Flyers,
>
> I just got 2 new birds: a 5 month old fiery shouldered conure
> (Arrow) and a
> 4 month old green cheeked conure (Jumper).  Both are unclipped, and
> we've
> had them for about a week.  We're having problems with Arrow.  When we
> picked them up from the breeder, he kept catching them by the tail
> when they
> flew around, and when Arrow bit him (really sharp beak on that one!)
> he
> actually flicked the bird in the face.  Needless to say, Arrow is very
> scared of hands.  It took 3 days for him to be brave enough to take
> seeds
> from our hands.  He will usually step up now (sometimes even when
> there's no
> seed involved), but he will not let us touch or pet him.  He nibbles
> gently
> on fingers, but is still really afraid of hands if they move too
> quickly or
> try to go around behind him.  Jumper was afraid to take seeds at
> first, but
> he's progressed a lot.  He took seeds from us after about 2 days and
> now
> will tolerate being petted and ALWAYS wants to be on my shoulder
> eating my
> hair.
>
> Okay, so it's still early for us to expect Arrow to have warmed up
> to us
> already (even though Jumper mostly has), but I just feel bad since
> it's
> because of his treatment as a baby, not just because he is a
> skittish bird.
> He's actually really curious about things that aren't hands.  We
> told the
> breeder that he shouldn't hit his birds since it makes them scared of
> people/hands, but he just said that "birds need to be more dominated
> than
> some other pets" to get them to behave.  I've never raised a bird,
> but am I
> wrong in thinking that a nicely treated handfed bird should LIKE
> hands?
> Anyone have advice on this?  I feel like I just paid someone $600 to
> hit
> his birds.
>
> In regards to their flying though, they're getting much better.
> Jumper is
> really light, so he hovers a lot, and Arrow is becoming a fast
> flyer.  When
> we first got them, they were very very slow, with their tails fanned
> out.  I
> don't think they had ever been in an enclosure big enough to allow
> flight,
> even though the breeder told me they had fully fledged.  They about
> know
> their names and will fly a few feet and back for seeds.  Their
> recall is
> good (even Arrow!) but only with seeds and only a few feet in
> distance.
> Arrow will stay on a hand long enough to get the seed, then he's off.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jill
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To access the database of previous freeflight email discussions go
> to http://www.freeflightlist.com
> A comprehensive documentation is still under construction, go to
http://www.flightedbirds.org/fbwikiYahoo
> ! Groups Links
>
>
>

Hi Flyers,

I just got 2 new birds: a 5 month old fiery shouldered conure (Arrow) and a
4 month old green cheeked conure (Jumper).  Both are unclipped, and we've
had them for about a week.  We're having problems with Arrow.  When we
picked them up from the breeder, he kept catching them by the tail when they
flew around, and when Arrow bit him (really sharp beak on that one!) he
actually flicked the bird in the face.  Needless to say, Arrow is very
scared of hands.  It took 3 days for him to be brave enough to take seeds
from our hands.  He will usually step up now (sometimes even when there's no
seed involved), but he will not let us touch or pet him.  He nibbles gently
on fingers, but is still really afraid of hands if they move too quickly or
try to go around behind him.  Jumper was afraid to take seeds at first, but
he's progressed a lot.  He took seeds from us after about 2 days and now
will tolerate being petted and ALWAYS wants to be on my shoulder eating my
hair.

Okay, so it's still early for us to expect Arrow to have warmed up to us
already (even though Jumper mostly has), but I just feel bad since it's
because of his treatment as a baby, not just because he is a skittish bird.
  He's actually really curious about things that aren't hands.  We told the
breeder that he shouldn't hit his birds since it makes them scared of
people/hands, but he just said that "birds need to be more dominated than
some other pets" to get them to behave.  I've never raised a bird, but am I
wrong in thinking that a nicely treated handfed bird should LIKE hands?
  Anyone have advice on this?  I feel like I just paid someone $600 to hit
his birds.

In regards to their flying though, they're getting much better.  Jumper is
really light, so he hovers a lot, and Arrow is becoming a fast flyer.  When
we first got them, they were very very slow, with their tails fanned out.  I
don't think they had ever been in an enclosure big enough to allow flight,
even though the breeder told me they had fully fledged.  They about know
their names and will fly a few feet and back for seeds.  Their recall is
good (even Arrow!) but only with seeds and only a few feet in distance.
  Arrow will stay on a hand long enough to get the seed, then he's off.

Thanks!

Jill


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excellent Adele!
Great job.
Manzi is a beautifull and very well behaved bird!
He doesn't seam to miss the lands, he is just having fun with you:)

Décio


On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Joe R_6789 <rrrr6789@...> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM, adele_deleon
<kaplan.adele@...<kaplan.adele%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> > Here is a video taken this past weekend of Manzi flying. I have a perch,
> but he is still afraid of it so we have not yet begun working with it. There
> were no more signs of the peregrine falcon so we went back out to fly after
> a few days. >
>
> Watch out, they'll almost certainly be back! I have a pair (now
> plus Jr!) of hawks that routinely hand out in a dead tree directly
> behind my house. They have a "route" and will be here for a day then
> gone for several days to a week and then they're back again. I've been
> watching them do this for years and they're very consistant about
> leaving but always returning within a short time.
>
> It was great seeing your bird free flying. I love to be able to do
> that but there are just too many predators in my area!
>
> >
> > ------------------------------------
>
> >
> > To access the database of previous freeflight email discussions go to
> http://www.freeflightlist.com
> > A comprehensive documentation is still under construction, go to
> http://www.flightedbirds.org/fbwikiYahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

it is hard to be absolutely certain without seeing the face but it looks to
me like a ferruginous hawk. The long barred tail, long broad wings and
feathered legs all point to it being a ferruginous hawk. They are a big
bird, just slightly smaller than a golden eagle. They are a Buteo so in the
same family as a red-tail hawk. Although I've never seen one that dark but
like red-tails I imagine they can have dark morphs as well.


Curtis

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:09 PM, adele_deleon <kaplan.adele@...> wrote:

>
>
> Which type of hawk is this? I couldn't figure it out. It was flying about 1
> mile from Manzi's normal flight zone.
> http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/adele28schatzi/DSC_0227.jpg
> http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/adele28schatzi/DSC_0226.jpg
>
> This is an attempt at embedding the photo.
> [IMG]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/adele28schatzi/DSC_0227.jpg
> [/IMG]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I never considered using a screen canopy before, what a good idea! I understand
people's warnings about using one, but I would not leave him out unattended, I
would use it primarily for flight training since our canopy is large enough for
him to fly in. Unfortunately it's a little chilly here in Connecticut at this
time of year so I'll have to wait to start until the spring.



Thank you!

Barbara (with Zephyr, a GCC)




To: Freeflight@yahoogroups.com
From: shawkeyr2@...
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 2009 18:43:35 -0600
Subject: Re: [Freeflight] Anyone in this group flying conures?





Yes Linda... I knew you would know exactly what I intended.

There are several ways to 'acclimate' our friends to the outdoors. The
worse, is allowing a clipped bird outside alone on a t-stand! I've seen it
often!!!
"Oh... he can't fly and won't go anywhere!" And I'm sure they may be right!
But we ALL know that a clipped bird CAN fly under certain circumstances!
This is usually a larger bird... and those who aren't accustomed will scream
bloody murder! Hey! It's scary! No overhead cover! I'm ALONE out here!!! And
the 'owner' is often indifferent with an attitude of "Hey! It's a BIG bird!
HE BITES!!! Nothing going to bother him!!! What concern is it of yours
anyway!!!"

The second worse... is leaving the smaller birds outside alone, in a small
cage! I have to admit... I've been guilty of this myself!!! Usually it's a
matter of convenience when I'm cleaning the larger main cages.... and I try
harder now to consider the bird more. I'm careful to ALWAYS place this
smaller cage with close overhead cover... either dense branches, a blanket,
even the roof overhang is often sufficient cover for a more secure feeling.
I keep them nearby so they can see me and we continuously talk back and
forth to provide some reassurance. It's still scary for an inexperienced
bird, and I no longer leave anyone unattended like this.

Some folks like the 'harness'! I've never had much luck with getting most of
the smaller birds accustomed to these, but they do provide a closer personal
contact with the bird while outside. Those who do accept the harness well,
seem to benefit greatly! But remember... the harness is not without some
serious risk! Think of it like a halter on a horse.... you will NEVER have
100% control over the animal or potential situations.... like hawks or dogs!
It's a TOOL, that I occasionally use, and I personally do not advocate it's
use to the inexperienced. I know others who do use them frequently
(Linda!!!), but they are experienced people who fully acknowledge the risks
involved and use them with great care.

A large well designed and built aviary is of course the best.... something
YOU can enter with your flighted friend, to provide the necessary personal
contact until they acquire familiarity and comfort with these new and
strange surroundings. Once they acquire a certain level of comfort... they
CAN be left unattended to enjoy the outdoors and gain experience with noisy
planes, rowdy squirrels, the rustling leaves and gusty breezes. Since these
are often large enough to accommodate you too, it's lots more fun to enjoy
the time together.

But the temporary screened canopy can be a great way to begin working with
inexperienced birds outside... especially the smaller birds. Even though
they have little space, they can help to improve recall in distracting
situations similar to those encountered in the open! Heck.... there's FOUR
SIDES of distractions!!! So a curtain or two can be helpful in reducing
distractions during those unnerving times. They're a great way to enjoy
coffee and treats together just as Linda's friends do. NO!!! YOU CAN NOT
leave them unattended in these!!!! They are NOT except proof! They are NOT
dog proof!!! They ARE NOT a secure and safe aviary!!! But they ARE a great
tool to use (with caution) as an intermediate step into the outdoors!!! With
a t-stand or table, they can be great for continued training in new
environments. Once training has progressed satisfactorily (which may take
quite some time), a curtain can be removed to "enlarge" the 'training arena'
to include nearby areas, flying to and from the cover of the canopy. 'Baby
steps' kinda learning and introduction to the outdoors.

Even if your flighted friend never becomes a proficient 'at-liberty' outdoor
flyer, the experience of outdoor work in a safe and controlled situation,
can greatly improve recovery of accidental and inadvertent excapes! AND
THESE DO HAPPEN!!! I've had it happen with quakers, green-cheeks, tiels,
sunnies, and others too! And I haven't 'lost' a bird yet with this kind of
added training and experience.

Some have become GREAT outdoor birds! Others are now 'safer' indoor flyers,
with occasional outdoor visits to the canopy or jus settin' in the 'lil cage
while the big ones gettin' cleaned.

And yes... even The Bandit, an unbanded recovered rescue of unknown age and
origin (heck... he might have been a feral bird for all I know), may someday
become a real outdoor flyer!!! Someday.... maybe.... we're still workin' on
it........ such older birds DEFINITELY seem more difficult to work with.

Dan (and The Bandit.... my toughest student and best feathered friend!!!)

----- Original Message -----
From: Linda Hodgens
To: Freeflight@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 9:01 AM
Subject: RE: [Freeflight] Anyone in this group flying conures?

....."I personally would never use one of the shade screen things - they
aren't big enough to teach recall better than in the house and they are
definitely not secure enough to trust as escape proof for any size
bird.".....

I think we were addressing just being outside with them to accustom them
to
the look and feel of the yard, etc. Sitting with them. I don't think it
would be a security problem when used properly. Netting on the side, etc.
No, they aren't escape proof, and I don't see a hawk really flying into
the
side of it. Every hawk attack I've ever had came from above. But then I
have trees galore here. Probably a different scenario. I can't imagine a
hawk flying into a netting and fighting with it, to get entangled to get
prey. Hmmm, just beyond my capability here.
A friend of mine travels RV'g all over the US. They use one. She reads a
book while her birds play on a table she sets in there. If they get into
trouble, she's right there and fixes it. Hers are recallable, but not 100%
so she uses the crutch of the tent. Since they are acclimatized to it and
all, it has worked great for years and years. As usual, everything is
risky
with birds.
Linda/FL

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 5:59 PM, adele_deleon <kaplan.adele@...> wrote:
> Here is a video taken this past weekend of Manzi flying. I have a perch, but
he is still afraid of it so we have not yet begun working with it. There were no
more signs of the peregrine falcon so we went back out to fly after a few days.
>

    Watch out, they'll almost certainly be back! I have a pair (now
plus Jr!) of hawks that routinely hand out in a dead tree directly
behind my house. They have a "route" and will be here for a day then
gone for several days to a week and then they're back again. I've been
watching them do this for years and they're very consistant about
leaving but always returning within a short time.

   It was great seeing your bird free flying. I love to be able to do
that but there are just too many predators in my area!



>
> ------------------------------------
>
> To access the database of previous freeflight email discussions go to
http://www.freeflightlist.com
> A comprehensive documentation is still under construction, go to
http://www.flightedbirds.org/fbwikiYahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

That was such fun to watch. Well done Manzi (oh and Adele too)
Dot

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks Valentin!
i think it's a nice sound track for freeflying birds:)

Décio
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 9:37 AM, Valentin <valentin_botev@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com <Freeflight%40yahoogroups.com>, Décio
> Lopes <deciolopes01@...> wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone know which song is that on the final of the video?!
> > Fabulous song it has everything to do with freeflying birds:)
> > I also want to use it:)
>
> Hi Decio, There you go !
>
> Nice Little Penguins - Flying
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX3v4D9CbcA
>
> Cheers
> Valentin
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com, Décio Lopes <deciolopes01@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone know which song is that on the final of the video?!
> Fabulous song it has everything to do with freeflying birds:)
> I also want to use it:)


Hi Decio, There you go !

Nice Little Penguins - Flying

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EX3v4D9CbcA

Cheers
Valentin

Congratulations Manzi and Adele, you have done a long journey together! It's so
nice to see how much fun Manzi has flying outdoors. Good training! Very nice
video! Thanks!

Isabel

--- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com, "adele_deleon" <kaplan.adele@...> wrote:
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcPvnWxUbI
>

Which type of hawk is this? I couldn't figure it out. It was flying about 1 mile
from Manzi's normal flight zone.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/adele28schatzi/DSC_0227.jpg
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/adele28schatzi/DSC_0226.jpg

This is an attempt at embedding the photo.
[IMG]http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w188/adele28schatzi/DSC_0227.jpg[/IMG]

Here is a video taken this past weekend of Manzi flying. I have a perch, but he
is still afraid of it so we have not yet begun working with it. There were no
more signs of the peregrine falcon so we went back out to fly after a few days.
There are crows that sometimes dive at Manzi, but he usually doesn't even react
(maybe he doesn't know they are diving at him).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcPvnWxUbI

Does anyone know which song is that on the final of the video?!
Fabulous song it has everything to do with freeflying birds:)
I also want to use it:)



On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Décio Lopes <deciolopes01@...> wrote:

> Excelent!
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, rbirdsreally4u <
> parrotadvice4u@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I like it a lot.
>>
>> regards Marcus
>>
>>
>> --- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com <Freeflight%40yahoogroups.com>, Curtis
>> White <soaro77@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Well I know it isn't a parrot but it still shows some excellent examples
>> of
>> > training a bird using positive reinforcement techniques. I expect many
>> of
>> > these same techniques could be applied to parrots as well. Pretty neat
>> > video.
>> >
>> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7B-JGowL4
>> >
>> >
>> > Curtis
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Excelent!

On Mon, Nov 9, 2009 at 2:23 PM, rbirdsreally4u <
parrotadvice4u@...> wrote:

>
>
> I like it a lot.
>
> regards Marcus
>
>
> --- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com <Freeflight%40yahoogroups.com>, Curtis
> White <soaro77@...> wrote:
> >
> > Well I know it isn't a parrot but it still shows some excellent examples
> of
> > training a bird using positive reinforcement techniques. I expect many of
> > these same techniques could be applied to parrots as well. Pretty neat
> > video.
> >
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7B-JGowL4
> >
> >
> > Curtis
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like it a lot.

regards Marcus

--- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com, Curtis White <soaro77@...> wrote:
>
> Well I know it isn't a parrot but it still shows some excellent examples of
> training a bird using positive reinforcement techniques. I expect many of
> these same techniques could be applied to parrots as well. Pretty neat
> video.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7B-JGowL4
>
>
> Curtis
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Very nice and instructive video! Thanks for sharing.

Isabel

--- In Freeflight@yahoogroups.com, Curtis White <soaro77@...> wrote:
>
> Well I know it isn't a parrot but it still shows some excellent examples of
> training a bird using positive reinforcement techniques. I expect many of
> these same techniques could be applied to parrots as well. Pretty neat
> video.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7B-JGowL4
>
>
> Curtis
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Nice video.  The aviaries in the background were interesting too. Does
anyone know - are they silos converted?
Susan


On Nov 7, 2009, at 6:08 PM, Curtis White wrote:

> Well I know it isn't a parrot but it still shows some excellent
> examples of
> training a bird using positive reinforcement techniques. I expect
> many of
> these same techniques could be applied to parrots as well. Pretty neat
> video.
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k7B-JGowL4
>
>
> Curtis