GPA101Genetics : Messages : 1629-1661 of 1661

Hello, Everyone!

I just wanted to let you know that, if you haven't checked my webstore lately (www.fairestfinches.com), you might want to do so since we dramatically slashed prices on most all products. We are doing everything we can to keep our business operating during this horrible economic time. So, at this point, we are offering most products at pennies above our cost in order to continue earning existing customer business and attract new customers. We would greatly appreciate it if you would pass the word to your bird friends regarding our low, low prices.

Thank you to all of our dedicated customers! We truly appreciate your business!!

:o) Michele

www.fairestfinches.com

#1660

From: "meadowlark_farms" <kristen.reeves@...>
Date: Fri Sep 25, 2009 12:02 pm
Subject: Bird Expo in Michigan - Oct 3rd

meadowlark_f...

Offline

Motor City Bird Breeders Club Presents...

BIRD EXPO
Saturday, October 3, 2009

10:00am � 5:00pm

Madison Place
876 Horace Brown Dr.
Madison Heights, MI 48071

$3.00 for adults
Children under 12 are free!

See the MCBB website for a map and more information!

http://www.motorcitybirdbreeders.com/EXPO/Fall2009ExpoInfo.html

#1659

From: "AceG" <acesrhigh32000@...>
Date: Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:20 pm
Subject: San Antonio, Texas Bird Mart

acesrhigh32000

Offline

San Antonio, Texas Bird Mart

Saturday, September 26, 2009 9 a.m. to 5 p.m.

Live Oak Civic Center

8101 Pat Booker Rd.

Live Oak, Texas

Should be a good mart with lots of varieties of birds.

#1655

From: "Michele" <mfaires@...>
Date: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:02 pm
Subject: Lady Gouldians For Sale

renfaires2

Offline

Hi, Everyone!

Just a short announcement to let you know that we have the following Lady Gouldians available:

1- Red head, Purple breast, Normal male - $80.00
1- Red head, White breast, Normal male - $80.00
1- Black head, Purple breast, Normal-blue male - $95.00
2- Red head, Purple breast, SF Yellow male ("dilute") - $95.00 each
1- Orange head, Purple breast, SF Yellow male - $95.00
1- Black head, White breast, SF Yellow male - $95.00
1- Black head, Purple breast, Blue male - $175.00

2- Red head, Purple breast, Normal female - $80.00 each
1- Black head, Purple breast, Normal female - $80.00
1- Black head, White breast, Normal female - $80.00

The following goulds should be available within the next couple of weeks:

1- Red head, Purple breast, Normal male - $80.00
2- Red head, Purple breast, DF Yellow male - $120.00 each

1- Black head, Purple breast, Normal female - $80.00
3- Black head, Purple breast, Yellow female - $110.00 each
1- Orange head, Purple breast, Yellow female - $110.00

All are late 2008 or early 2009 hatches that have finished their juvenile molt. At this time, we require hens be purchased with a male.

We are located in Springfield, IL. We offer shipping (at purchaser's expense) via Delta Cargo and are willing to drive a reasonable distance to deliver birds.

Please contact me privately at fairestfinches@... if interested. Thank you!

:o) Michele
www.fairestfinches.com
fairestfinches@...

#1654

From: "valmilazzo" <valmilazzo@...>
Date: Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:07 pm
Subject: Re: lilac-breasted male?

valmilazzo

Offline

Hi James - and Tiffany I will answer your question also...  I appreciate all
your expertise!  This bird is only about 7 months old and has recently completed
his juvenile molt. I am not the breeder but I know her pretty well. He was
raised in a large indoor aviary and fed gouldian mix seed, millet spray,
homemade nutrient-fortified egg food, vegetables and fresh greens. Lighting is
from windows and full spectrum fixtures. I just looked up "melanistic" and was
interested to learn more about that. Some of the birds I saw in photos were
beautiful, but apparently this is usually a temporary hormone problem, true? I
guess I will find out next year what Silvio's "true colors" are. Is it possible
to have an incomplete molt affecting only one area (breast)? Close-up, the
feathers there appear to be a mixture of white and lilac or blue, not the
juvenile gray. If he is a "dirty white breast", is that an undesirable trait to
continue through breeding?
Thanks again,
Valarie


--- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com, "James " <zabadak@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Valarie,
>
> From what I read I believe that you are not the breeder of this bird. Do you
> know how he was housed?
>
> From looking at him he could be slightly melanistic. This would account for
> the uneven colour, and the blue sheen, in his breast and I would expect it
> to moult out at his next moult. Apart from that he looks like what I would
> term a "bad white breast" This is a white breast that has retained some
> colour. I would not call him a lilac breast as I prefer, and believe the
> true lilac breast mutation should have a darker even colour as shown in the
> photo from Tiffany.
>
> There are many variations in breast colour (and indeed the lilac breast
> comes in several shades of colour but must be darker and more even than your
> boy) but not many "True" mutations. Only time will tell with your boy. I
> would not make any decision until he has moulted.
>
> Kind regards
>
> James
>
>
>
> From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of valmilazzo
> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:25 AM
> To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [GPA101Genetics] Re: lilac-breasted male?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi James, yes you are right - it is so hard to get an accurate photo. His
> actual color is most similar to the third photo, where the bird in question
> is to the right of the molting blue female (Zerlina Porgy). Your evaluation
> would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
> Valarie
>
> --- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:GPA101Genetics%40yahoogroups.com> , "James " <zabadak@> wrote:
> >
> > I Valarie,
> >
> > In each of the three photos your bird shows a different breast colour. I
> > realize that this is probably to do with the position when photographed
> and
> > the use, or not, of the flash. Could you please tell us which photo is
> > closest to his coulour in normal light.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> >
> > From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:GPA101Genetics%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:GPA101Genetics%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> > On Behalf Of valmilazzo
> > Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:55 AM
> > To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:GPA101Genetics%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [GPA101Genetics] lilac-breasted male?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new
> > black head male? Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album
> > "lilac breast?"). It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as
> > pink as a female purple breast. It is not a uniform color -somewhat
> blotched
> > with white, and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think
> he
> > is a lilac-breast? Could he be something more unusual?
> >
> > Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split
> to
> > blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back. This
> breeding
> > pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other. (They chose
> > each other from among several other options, according to the breeder). I
> am
> > told that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other
> son
> > with a solid-colored lilac breast. They have also had at least one
> > blue-backed offspring. Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one
> > photo. When I first bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color
> > than my other purple-breasted birds. With his last molt, it has become
> more
> > typical looking though. Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
> > Valarie
> >
>

#1653

From: "James " <zabadak@...>
Date: Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:24 am
Subject: RE: Re: lilac-breasted male?

gouldianau

Offline

Hi Valarie,

From what I read I believe that you are not the breeder of this bird. Do you know how he was housed?

From looking at him he could be slightly melanistic. This would account for the uneven colour, and the blue sheen, in his breast and I would expect it to moult out at his next moult. Apart from that he looks like what I would term a “bad white breast” This is a white breast that has retained some colour. I would not call him a lilac breast as I prefer, and believe the true lilac breast mutation should have a darker even colour as shown in the photo from Tiffany.

There are many variations in breast colour (and indeed the lilac breast comes in several shades of colour but must be darker and more even than your boy) but not many “True” mutations. Only time will tell with your boy. I would not make any decision until he has moulted.

Kind regards

James

From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of valmilazzo
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:25 AM
To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GPA101Genetics] Re: lilac-breasted male?

Hi James, yes you are right - it is so hard to get an accurate photo. His actual color is most similar to the third photo, where the bird in question is to the right of the molting blue female (Zerlina Porgy). Your evaluation would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Valarie

--- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com, "James " <zabadak@...> wrote:
>
> I Valarie,
>
> In each of the three photos your bird shows a different breast colour. I
> realize that this is probably to do with the position when photographed and
> the use, or not, of the flash. Could you please tell us which photo is
> closest to his coulour in normal light.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
> From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of valmilazzo
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:55 AM
> To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [GPA101Genetics] lilac-breasted male?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new
> black head male? Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album
> "lilac breast?"). It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as
> pink as a female purple breast. It is not a uniform color -somewhat blotched
> with white, and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think he
> is a lilac-breast? Could he be something more unusual?
>
> Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split to
> blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back. This breeding
> pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other. (They chose
> each other from among several other options, according to the breeder). I am
> told that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other son
> with a solid-colored lilac breast. They have also had at least one
> blue-backed offspring. Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one
> photo. When I first bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color
> than my other purple-breasted birds. With his last molt, it has become more
> typical looking though. Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
> Valarie
>

#1652

From: Tiffany Park <nixity@...>
Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 6:18 pm
Subject: Re: Re: lilac-breasted male?

nixitee

Offline

Valarie,

On second thought - looking at the third photo again, I realized I think the OH bird in the background is a Hen. I was looking at it initially thinking this was the photo of him and his brother, but then I noticed the photo titled specifically "Brothers."

If that bird in the third photo is in fact a hen, then maybe he is Lilac afterall.. I find the Lilac Males look almost like regular PB hens :)

Tiffany

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 2:12 PM, Tiffany Park <nixity@...> wrote:

Hi Valarie,

I'm wondering how old is this male in question?
In the first two photos, it looks like Bad White Breast; or sort of like a partially molted breast, but I think this, as James said, might just be the lighting.
In the third photo he looks quite similar to his brother outside of the patchy spots, but if he is a young bird what I'm wondering is if this is just an incomplete molt...
Meaning, when he molts a second time this will correct itself.
I'm not sure - not very familiar with this problem - he does not look lilac to me, though, if I'm basing it solely off the third photo.
I am attaching a photo of a LB male I actually just purchased yesterday so you can compare :)

--
Tiffany
http://www.gouldiansgalore.net

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, valmilazzo <valmilazzo@...> wrote:

Hi James, yes you are right - it is so hard to get an accurate photo. His actual color is most similar to the third photo, where the bird in question is to the right of the molting blue female (Zerlina Porgy). Your evaluation would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Valarie

--- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com, "James " <zabadak@...> wrote:
>
> I Valarie,
>
> In each of the three photos your bird shows a different breast colour. I
> realize that this is probably to do with the position when photographed and
> the use, or not, of the flash. Could you please tell us which photo is
> closest to his coulour in normal light.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
> From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of valmilazzo
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:55 AM
> To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [GPA101Genetics] lilac-breasted male?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new
> black head male? Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album
> "lilac breast?"). It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as
> pink as a female purple breast. It is not a uniform color -somewhat blotched
> with white, and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think he
> is a lilac-breast? Could he be something more unusual?
>
> Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split to
> blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back. This breeding
> pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other. (They chose
> each other from among several other options, according to the breeder). I am
> told that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other son
> with a solid-colored lilac breast. They have also had at least one
> blue-backed offspring. Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one
> photo. When I first bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color
> than my other purple-breasted birds. With his last molt, it has become more
> typical looking though. Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
> Valarie
>

--
Tiffany
http://www.gouldiansgalore.net

#1651

From: Tiffany Park <nixity@...>
Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: Re: lilac-breasted male?

nixitee

Offline

Hi Valarie,

I'm wondering how old is this male in question?
In the first two photos, it looks like Bad White Breast; or sort of like a partially molted breast, but I think this, as James said, might just be the lighting.
In the third photo he looks quite similar to his brother outside of the patchy spots, but if he is a young bird what I'm wondering is if this is just an incomplete molt...
Meaning, when he molts a second time this will correct itself.
I'm not sure - not very familiar with this problem - he does not look lilac to me, though, if I'm basing it solely off the third photo.
I am attaching a photo of a LB male I actually just purchased yesterday so you can compare :)

--
Tiffany
http://www.gouldiansgalore.net

On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 1:24 PM, valmilazzo <valmilazzo@...> wrote:

Hi James, yes you are right - it is so hard to get an accurate photo. His actual color is most similar to the third photo, where the bird in question is to the right of the molting blue female (Zerlina Porgy). Your evaluation would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Valarie

--- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com, "James " <zabadak@...> wrote:
>
> I Valarie,
>
> In each of the three photos your bird shows a different breast colour. I
> realize that this is probably to do with the position when photographed and
> the use, or not, of the flash. Could you please tell us which photo is
> closest to his coulour in normal light.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
> From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of valmilazzo
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:55 AM
> To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [GPA101Genetics] lilac-breasted male?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new
> black head male? Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album
> "lilac breast?"). It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as
> pink as a female purple breast. It is not a uniform color -somewhat blotched
> with white, and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think he
> is a lilac-breast? Could he be something more unusual?
>
> Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split to
> blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back. This breeding
> pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other. (They chose
> each other from among several other options, according to the breeder). I am
> told that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other son
> with a solid-colored lilac breast. They have also had at least one
> blue-backed offspring. Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one
> photo. When I first bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color
> than my other purple-breasted birds. With his last molt, it has become more
> typical looking though. Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
> Valarie
>

1 of 1 Photo(s)

LB Male.JPG

#1650

From: "valmilazzo" <valmilazzo@...>
Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 5:24 pm
Subject: Re: lilac-breasted male?

valmilazzo

Offline

Hi James, yes you are right - it is so hard to get an accurate photo.  His
actual color is most similar to the third photo, where the bird in question is
to the right of the molting blue female (Zerlina Porgy).  Your evaluation would
be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Valarie

--- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com, "James " <zabadak@...> wrote:
>
> I Valarie,
>
> In each of the three photos your bird shows a different breast colour. I
> realize that this is probably to do with the position when photographed and
> the use, or not, of the flash. Could you please tell us which photo is
> closest to his coulour in normal light.
>
> Regards
>
> James
>
>
>
> From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com]
> On Behalf Of valmilazzo
> Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:55 AM
> To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [GPA101Genetics] lilac-breasted male?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new
> black head male? Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album
> "lilac breast?"). It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as
> pink as a female purple breast. It is not a uniform color -somewhat blotched
> with white, and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think he
> is a lilac-breast? Could he be something more unusual?
>
> Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split to
> blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back. This breeding
> pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other. (They chose
> each other from among several other options, according to the breeder). I am
> told that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other son
> with a solid-colored lilac breast. They have also had at least one
> blue-backed offspring. Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one
> photo. When I first bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color
> than my other purple-breasted birds. With his last molt, it has become more
> typical looking though. Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
> Valarie
>

#1649

From: "James " <zabadak@...>
Date: Mon Jun 8, 2009 12:20 am
Subject: RE: lilac-breasted male?

gouldianau

Offline

I Valarie,

In each of the three photos your bird shows a different breast colour. I realize that this is probably to do with the position when photographed and the use, or not, of the flash. Could you please tell us which photo is closest to his coulour in normal light.

Regards

James

From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of valmilazzo
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 1:55 AM
To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GPA101Genetics] lilac-breasted male?

Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new black head male? Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album "lilac breast?"). It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as pink as a female purple breast. It is not a uniform color -somewhat blotched with white, and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think he is a lilac-breast? Could he be something more unusual?

Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split to blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back. This breeding pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other. (They chose each other from among several other options, according to the breeder). I am told that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other son with a solid-colored lilac breast. They have also had at least one blue-backed offspring. Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one photo. When I first bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color than my other purple-breasted birds. With his last molt, it has become more typical looking though. Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
Valarie

#1648

From: "valmilazzo" <valmilazzo@...>
Date: Sun Jun 7, 2009 5:54 pm
Subject: lilac-breasted male?

valmilazzo

Offline

Hello, I wonder if you experts out there can share an opinion about my new black
head male?  Silvio has an unusual colored breast (see photo album "lilac
breast?").  It is much paler than a male purple breast, but not as pink as a
female purple breast.  It is not a uniform color -somewhat blotched with white,
and the lower edge on his right side is darker. Do you think he is a
lilac-breast?  Could he be something more unusual?

Silvio's father is a black head, white breast, normal back possibly split to
blue. His mother is a black head, purple breast, normal back.  This breeding
pair are closely related - father and daughter to each other.  (They chose each
other from among several other options, according to the breeder).  I am told
that in previous clutches, this (very prolific) pair had one other son with a
solid-colored lilac breast.  They have also had at least one blue-backed
offspring.  Silvio's brother Porgy is shown with him in one photo.  When I first
bought Porgy his breast was a more intense blue color than my other
purple-breasted birds.  With his last molt, it has become more typical looking
though.  Any ideas/explanations would be appreciated!
Valarie

#1647

From: "Michele" <mfaires@...>
Date: Tue May 5, 2009 5:51 pm
Subject: Cinco de Mayo Sale

renfaires2

Offline

Hi, Everyone!

Just wanted to let everyone know that we're running our annual Cinco de Mayo sale this month at Fairest Finches & Supply. All items -- including sale priced, but excluding birds & cages -- are 5% off the lowest listed price. Simply enter the discount code "May2009" in your shopping cart during check-out to have 5% automatically discounted on your order!

:o) Michele

www.fairestfinches.com

#1646

From: "landervn" <landervn@...>
Date: Tue Apr 21, 2009 6:33 pm
Subject: AvesCenter- Helping me

landervn

Offline

Dear,
I'm a Belgian student informatics who's trying to combining my two hobbies (bird
keeping and scripting). The result of that is my new(unfinished) site
AvesCenter.com!
Now in fact it will be a site like Kijiji but then only for birds. So you will
be able to place bird classified ads(selling, buying, exchanging)
Now why am I posting a message on this group?
I've following this group and other groups for a couple of weeks and I came to
the conclusion, most of the members are serious members. I think you already
know what I am going to ask from you.
Now like I said before I'm a Belgian student an at the beginning of the academy
the prof gave us a task to make a 'successful' website. And  more members means
more succes and better results. So if it is possible please register on
www.avescenter.com and help me with my school project!
Thanks in advance!
If there are any problems around the site you van always contact me on
info@....
Be aware I will never send anything of spam or give your details to others!
(If I made some errors, I excuse me for my language)

#1645

From: tielnmore@...
Date: Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:59 pm
Subject: Bird fair Livonia Michigan Saturday 21st

jhkilkenn

Offline

Hi the Society of Canary & Finch breeders of Michigan has the first bird fair of the year this Saturday 21st all profits from the fairs go to running the Annual bird show In October we are the only club left in Michigan that has a Full show with Divisions for all types of canaries English type color bred and American singer divisions , finch divisions NFSS (national Finch & softill society) affiliated ,Parrot division SPBE (Society Parrot Breeders & Exhibitors ) affiliated , Lovebird division ALBS (African lovebird society ) affiliated . All Vendor tables are sold out. Admission is $4 under 12 free Vendor set up from 6 am open to the public

9 am - 4 PM for further details email tielnmore@... or call 313 2475900 please feel free to forward this email to other groups Jim

Society of Canary & Finch Breeders of Michigan
is inviting you to their upcoming

BIRD FAIR - February 21, 2009
OPEN to the PUBLIC 9 am to PM

Admission $4 vendor
set up from 6 am
LIST OF VENDORS

Bird Fair Vendor Reservation Form
(print form out & mail to the address listed on it)

The bird fair is being held at the
Quality Inn
(on Plymouth Road - one block west of Middlebelt Road)
in Livonia, Michigan

Quality Inn & Suites Livonia
30375 Plymouth Road
Livonia, MI 48150 US

Need a job? Find an employment agency near you.

#1644

From: "gfinches2" <Gfinches2@...>
Date: Fri Feb 13, 2009 10:43 pm
Subject: Lutinos, Albino and Taylor

gfinches2

Offline

Hi GPA101Genetics,

  I would like to share some  photos of the Red Head Lutino Gouldian
and Yellow Head Lutino Gouldian located at Betterphoto.  I have been
informed by Dr Terry Martin and Daniel Wildmeersch that these are
most likely the only Lutinos with this head coloring in the world at
the present time.  I am also sharing a photo of the Albino Gouldian.

I have  added another unique photo today of Taylor, who is my oldest
Gouldian, is possibly the oldest documented Gouldian in the USA or
possibly the world.

Taylor was purchased from the local pet store in Cleveland, TN in
June 1997. His exact birth date is unknown. His daughter, who was
born on 11.17.98 died on 1.20.09 at the age of 10 years and 2 months
of age.

Taylor is the Great Great Great Great Great Great Grandfather of the
Red Head and Yellow Head Lutinos and the Albino.  Because Taylor's
daughter died in January 2009, and each year I wonder if it will be
the last for Taylor, I took the photo of Taylor with his Great Great
Great Great Great Great Granddaughters. Yes, I am proud of Taylor!

The link to the album is

http://www.betterphoto.com/gallery/free/gallery.asp?memberID=314179


If there is any problem with accessing the link, please write to me
at Gfinches2@...

Winnie McAlpin

Winnie McAlpin at Gfinches2@...
Delmar Lutino at Delmar Gouldian Aviary
http://www.geocities.com/gfinches2/Delmar_Gouldians.html

#1643

From: Fumi <birdland5950@...>
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2009 1:41 pm
Subject: Re: Sorry About Approval of Post

birdland5950

Offline

Winnie,

I actually thought it was a good information.

We might to watch if the treat type of commercial bird food contains some peanuts?

I don't use any peanuts products, but commercial egg food, hand feeding formula or supplements could contains peanuts?

Fumi

From: gfinches2 <Gfinches2@...>
To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, February 7, 2009 8:35:05 AM
Subject: [GPA101Genetics] Sorry About Approval of Post

Hi All,

I approved a dog releated post by error. I am glad that it did not
contain other unwanted content. Deleting unwanted posts presents a
daily task to me as moderator. I flubbed on this one, sorry. I have
deleted the post from the GPA101Genetics messages.

Winnie

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1642

From: "gfinches2" <Gfinches2@...>
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2009 1:35 pm
Subject: Sorry About Approval of Post

gfinches2

Offline

Hi All,

I approved a dog releated post by error.  I am glad that it did not
contain other unwanted content.  Deleting unwanted posts presents a
daily task to me as moderator.  I flubbed on this one, sorry.  I have
deleted the post from the GPA101Genetics messages.


Winnie

Reply | Forward | Messages in this Topic (2)

#1641

From: "sankosa" <sankosa@...>
Date: Sat Feb 7, 2009 4:12 am
Subject: Tainted-peanut treats blamed for salmonella in Oregon dog

sankosa

Offline

SALEM, Ore. -- Oregon veterinarians identified the first case of peanut-linked salmonella poisoning in a dog that ate Happy Tails dog biscuits from Albertsons. Vets say pets with salmonella infections may be lethargic and have diarrhea (sometimes bloody), fever, and vomiting. Some pets will have only decreased appetite, fever and abdominal pain. Read more at http://animpet.blogspot.com/

#1640

From: "gfinches2" <Gfinches2@...>
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:12 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

gfinches2

Offline

Hi John,

This post was also caught in the E-Group Spam Folder and I don't know
why Yahoo is identifying your post as Spam.  Yahoo does some weird
things.  I will watch the Spam Folder, which I have opted to have
notification of all posts in the Spam folder sent to my private AOL
email.

--- In GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com, jwilson153@... wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 1/23/2009 6:45:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> Gfinches2@... writes:
>
> I want to give an explanation for the delay in the post from
John.   I didn't
> get a notification that there was a post in the Spam folder at the
> GPA101genetics E-Group at my private email address.  Today, when
visiting  the site, I
> saw that the Spam folder had a post and seeing that it was  from
John Wilson,
> I approved the post, which removed it from Spam and  forwarded it
to the
> group.  My apologies for the post having arrived 7  days after it
was   posted.
> Winnie McAlpin
>
>
>
>
> Winnie McAlpin at  Gfinches2@...
> Delmar Lutino at Delmar Gouldian Aviary
> _http://www.geocitiehttp://www.geocihttp://www.geocihttp://www_
> (http://www.geocities.com/gfinches2/Delmar_Gouldians.html)
>
> Thank You. If you figure out what it was that got caught in the
spam  filter
> I'm interested.
>
> John
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in
just 2 easy
> steps!
> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?
redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%
26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
> cemailfooterNO62)
>

#1639

From: jwilson153@...
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:18 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

jwilson153

Offline

In a message dated 1/23/2009 6:45:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Gfinches2@... writes:

I want to give an explanation for the delay in the post from John. I didn't get a notification that there was a post in the Spam folder at the GPA101genetics E-Group at my private email address. Today, when visiting the site, I saw that the Spam folder had a post and seeing that it was from John Wilson, I approved the post, which removed it from Spam and forwarded it to the group. My apologies for the post having arrived 7 days after it was posted.

Winnie McAlpin

Winnie McAlpin at Gfinches2@aol.com
Delmar Lutino at Delmar Gouldian Aviary
http://www.geocities.com/gfinches2/Delmar_Gouldians.html

Thank You. If you figure out what it was that got caught in the spam filter I'm interested.

John

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

#1638

From: jwilson153@...
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:15 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

jwilson153

Offline

In a message dated 1/23/2009 6:38:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, nixity@... writes:

WHOA.. I got a lot of gobbelty-gook with that message.
I caught the last part about your message being sent on the 16th - however, it only just now showed up in my inbox?

Tiffany

My recollection is reading that the percentage of the wild Goldman population with red heads is increasing. I can't point to where I read it but remember doing so.

Odd on the week delay in my earlier reply going out?

John

A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps!

#1637

From: Gfinches2@...
Date: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:44 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

gfinches2

Offline

Hi Tiffany and John,

In a message dated 1/23/2009 9:38:44 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, nixity@... writes:

WHOA.. I got a lot of gobbelty-gook with that message.
I caught the last part about your message being sent on the 16th - however, it only just now showed up in my inbox?

Tiffany

I want to give an explanation for the delay in the post from John. I didn't get a notification that there was a post in the Spam folder at the GPA101genetics E-Group at my private email address. Today, when visiting the site, I saw that the Spam folder had a post and seeing that it was from John Wilson, I approved the post, which removed it from Spam and forwarded it to the group. My apologies for the post having arrived 7 days after it was posted.

Winnie McAlpin

Winnie McAlpin at Gfinches2@...
Delmar Lutino at Delmar Gouldian Aviary
http://www.geocities.com/gfinches2/Delmar_Gouldians.html

Know Your Numbers: Get tips and tools to help you improve your credit score.

#1636

From: Tiffany Park <nixity@...>
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:32 am
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

nixitee

Offline

WHOA.. I got a lot of gobbelty-gook with that message.
I caught the last part about your message being sent on the 16th - however, it only just now showed up in my inbox?

Tiffany

On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:03 PM, <jwilson153@...> wrote:

In a message dated 1/23/2009 4:22:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,

nixity@... writes:

In the wild the black headed birds represent the great majority of the
population, red a small percentage and yellow head if my recollection is accurate
either 3% or .3%

From my understanding, hasn't there been a resurgence in the red heads in
the wild over the last few years? Not a large number, but I believe it was an

interview in wav format I was listening to by Dr. Sarah K1eV/BE4
VWbezWhRkZpK54hbLGiTB6H6bfvNN+M3EmbNAAxJluGITyEC48lxHrHY0UVxwcvG5IrWIjAp2T8W
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a1dtsafDke+dWK31DwLx0/WpJwbFxgaOScZzW9tGIJFELh0UfhGKHERfGjWqrzwyqqJwngYxV/Dv
9Lh6VkJEDlV3btoDAUpOTvVsMOsX1T/IP7bJnDhuBMQ8QPY3maqjjuTh3iR4+reisYvKsXsPv8ma
RBk5NWneMqBbbJCamynzYQiLPFOgxqBzBTmtgx7qLd180Vm9r3lsCtYwwJadez2MY9joonKpkGzu
xDcwnegF1SUnVy95mv4mUtkyjmFaljoSSFbJzgrXylkOcRwR9Xie10dGqcKjV6fJEa5v4dGMpZUk
FazAqqcu2wrumgSTyo2xqjlkMaXktzTya2WcBIMaFKSQQgQT5fkdKGqogD8NajhM5EnQnLf73OXU
7KjprgYDzYUQRTBn1nUJSTRQWU82wmGUdD4Jr5MJXyovRkIsdjCCgFAxj2+RXKxXxo7hDYiKdvzH
DVXR1pEClLvjCLQBsGVdP39/vUX4VhFraw4x8xmFGzzlhw4zrgkmNIc0Lz17iAQD1

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3492" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=
Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Dro=
le_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/23/2009 4:22:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,=20
nixity@... writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">=
<FONT=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial>In the wild the black headed birds represent th=
e great=20
majority of the population, red a small percentage and yellow head if m=
y=20
recollection is accurate either 3% or=20
.3%</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000><BR>From my understanding, has=
n't=20
there been a resurgence in the red heads in the wild over the last few ye=
ars?=20
Not a large number, but I believe it was an interview in wav format I was=
=20
listening to by Dr. Sarah Pryke that mentioned their numbers had been=20

increasing.. I think she was talking about Red Heads (part of the "fiery =

red=20
head"=20
discussion).<BR></FONT></DIV></DIV><BR>Tiffany<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV=
>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I recollect this being the case but can't readily put my hand on a=20
reference.  BTW my post was sent on the 16th, a week ago?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV></FONT><br/><font style=3D"color:black;font:normal 10pt aria=
l,san-serif;"> <hr style=3D"margin-top:10px"/><b>A Good Credit Score is 700=
or Above. <a href=3D"http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x12=
01028747/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D6=
68072%26hmpgID=3D62%26bcd=3DDecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy s=
teps!</a></b></font></DIV></BODY></HTML>

#1635

From: jwilson153@...
Date: Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:03 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

jwilson153

Offline

In a message dated 1/23/2009 4:22:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
nixity@... writes:






In the wild the black headed birds represent the great  majority of the
population, red a small percentage and yellow head if my  recollection is
accurate
either 3% or  .3%










From my understanding, hasn't  there been a resurgence in the red heads in
the wild over the last few years?  Not a large number, but I believe it was an
interview in wav format I was  listening to by Dr. Sarah K1eV/BE4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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3DUS-ASCII">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2900.3492" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY id=3Drole_body style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #000000; FONT-FAMILY:=
  Arial"=20
bottomMargin=3D7 leftMargin=3D7 topMargin=3D7 rightMargin=3D7><FONT id=3Dro=
le_document=20
face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2>
<DIV>
<DIV>In a message dated 1/23/2009 4:22:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,=20
nixity@... writes:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px solid">=
<FONT=20
   style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=
=3D2>
   <DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>
   <BLOCKQUOTE class=3Dgmail_quote=20
     style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid"><DIV=20
     style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(255,255,255)">
     <DIV>
     <DIV>
     <DIV>
     <DIV><FONT face=3DArial>In the wild the black headed birds represent th=
e great=20
     majority of the population, red a small percentage and yellow head if m=
y=20
     recollection is accurate either 3% or=20
     .3%</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
   <DIV><BR><BR><BR><BR><FONT color=3D#ff0000><BR>From my understanding, has=
n't=20
   there been a resurgence in the red heads in the wild over the last few ye=
ars?=20
   Not a large number, but I believe it was an interview in wav format I was=
=20
   listening to by Dr. Sarah Pryke that mentioned their numbers had been=20
   increasing.. I think she was talking about Red Heads (part of the "fiery =
red=20
   head"=20
discussion).<BR></FONT></DIV></DIV><BR>Tiffany<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV=
>
<DIV></DIV>
<DIV>I recollect this being the case but can't readily put my hand on a=20
reference.&nbsp; BTW my post was sent on the 16th, a week ago?</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>John</DIV></FONT><br/><font style=3D"color:black;font:normal 10pt aria=
l,san-serif;"> <hr style=3D"margin-top:10px"/><b>A Good Credit Score is 700=
  or Above. <a href=3D"http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100000075x1215855013x12=
01028747/aol?redir=3Dhttp://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=3D6=
68072%26hmpgID=3D62%26bcd=3DDecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy s=
teps!</a></b></font></DIV></BODY></HTML>

#1634

From: Tiffany Park <nixity@...>
Date: Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:15 am
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

nixitee

Offline

In the wild the black headed birds represent the great majority of the population, red a small percentage and yellow head if my recollection is accurate either 3% or .3%

From my understanding, hasn't there been a resurgence in the red heads in the wild over the last few years? Not a large number, but I believe it was an interview in wav format I was listening to by Dr. Sarah Pryke that mentioned their numbers had been increasing.. I think she was talking about Red Heads (part of the "fiery red head" discussion).

Tiffany

#1633

From: jwilson153@...
Date: Fri Jan 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

jwilson153

Offline

In a message dated 1/16/2009 6:03:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, zabadak@... writes:

Hi Tiffany

The Red Head Bird is the normal or original Gouldian and has a red tipped beak.

In the wild the black headed birds represent the great majority of the population, red a small percentage and yellow head if my recollection is accurate either 3% or .3%

The yellow head bird is the same bird but has two autosomal recessive genes which prevent the manufacture of the red pigment. (The red pigment is manufactured by the bird from Lutein. Lutein is a yellow pigment taken up from the bird’s food). The yellow head has no relation to the yellow body (pastel)

The reason a yellow head bird has a yellow tipped beak is because it cannot produce the red pigment.

(It is important to realize that what we all refer to as a “Yellow Head Gene” is not really a head colour gene. It just prevents the bird from converting the yellow pigment into red pigment and this is for the whole bird, not just the head, so the pigment in the beak as well as the head remains yellow

The Red head or a Red Head split to yellow head will have a red tipped beak

The Black head gene is sex-linked so a BH male has two and a BH female has one.

Actually it is the dominant red head gene that is a sex linked dominant

Your BH (YTB) male has two genes for black head but also has two recessive genes for yellow head which prevent the production of the red pigment.

Your BH WB Silver (blue pastel) has one gene for Black Head and may, or may not, have a single gene for yellow head. The reason she does not display a (RTB) is because the gene that gives you a blue bird prevents the Lutein pigment from being deposited. (No Lutein pigment-no red pigment)

Your male (Romeo)has a (RTB) because he is a black head split to Yellow head therefore has only one gene for yellow head. (That is why I said your hen may or may not have a gene for yellow head. She has not passed on a yellow head gene to your boy)

Because he has received on sex-linked BH gene (Plus one autosomal recessive YH gene)from his father, and one sex-linked BH gene from his mother, (without the addition of the autosomal recessive YH gene) he has a RTB)

Hope this helps you understand

Regards

James

It seems to me that this is easier to understand if it is presumed that BH is the natural color and RH a sl dominant. Since dominant and recessive are relative terms they must be used and understood as dominant to or recessive to another gene. This is the situation with black and red head. Yellow head is at another locus and inherited independently of BH RH.

I derive some satisfaction in working thru this but constantly risk misstatement and misdirection.

If you want a comprehensive overview visit, http://www.geocities.com/rainforest/canopy/2450/clark-wilson.html

John Wilson

San Francisco

Inauguration '09: Get complete coverage from the nation's capital.

#1632

From: "James Watson" <zabadak@...>
Date: Fri Jan 16, 2009 11:53 pm
Subject: RE: Genetics Question

gouldianau

Offline

Hi Tiffany

The Red Head Bird is the normal or original Gouldian and has a red tipped beak.

The yellow head bird is the same bird but has two autosomal recessive genes which prevent the manufacture of the red pigment. (The red pigment is manufactured by the bird from Lutein. Lutein is a yellow pigment taken up from the bird’s food). The yellow head has no relation to the yellow body (pastel)

The reason a yellow head bird has a yellow tipped beak is because it cannot produce the red pigment.

(It is important to realize that what we all refer to as a “Yellow Head Gene” is not really a head colour gene. It just prevents the bird from converting the yellow pigment into red pigment and this is for the whole bird, not just the head, so the pigment in the beak as well as the head remains yellow)

The Red head or a Red Head split to yellow head will have a red tipped beak

The Black head gene is sex-linked so a BH male has two and a BH female has one.

Your BH (YTB) male has two genes for black head but also has two recessive genes for yellow head which prevent the production of the red pigment.

Your BH WB Silver (blue pastel) has one gene for Black Head and may, or may not, have a single gene for yellow head. The reason she does not display a (RTB) is because the gene that gives you a blue bird prevents the Lutein pigment from being deposited. (No Lutein pigment-no red pigment)

Your male (Romeo)has a (RTB) because he is a black head split to Yellow head therefore has only one gene for yellow head. (That is why I said your hen may or may not have a gene for yellow head. She has not passed on a yellow head gene to your boy)

Because he has received on sex-linked BH gene (Plus one autosomal recessive YH gene)from his father, and one sex-linked BH gene from his mother, (without the addition of the autosomal recessive YH gene) he has a RTB)

Hope this helps you understand

Regards

James

From: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com [mailto:GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tiffany Park
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 2:28 PM
To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com; NFSS@yahoogroups.com; ladygouldianfinches@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [GPA101Genetics] Genetics Question

I have come across a genetic conundrum that I'm sure has a simple solution but as of yet I can't wrap my head around what it is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The situation is as follows:

My male (attached), Romeo, is a BH, Lilac/White, DF Yellow/Blue bird.
His father is a BH (TYB), Lilac/White, DF Yellow/Blue and his mom is BH, WB, Silver

Orange head requires at least one red head gene in order to be expressed, otherwise, as in the case of his father, you get a visually black head bird that has a yellow tip beak, identifying that the bird is genetically orange headed.

Here's my quandry..
If mom is BH, and dad is BH (YTB) - all babies would be BH/OH..
But also.. none of the babies would carry a single red gene.

My question revolves around the beak color of my male.

What is the relationship (if any) of the red tip beak color to the red head GENE?
Obviously there is some relationship of orange beak color and orange head color - but there is no possible way my bird can carry a red head gene.
Is this just a simple answer that the red in the beak and the red in the head color are completely unrelated?

Thanks,

Tiffany

#1631

From: "Laraine ladygouldianfinch.com" <mlaraine@...>
Date: Fri Jan 16, 2009 2:59 pm
Subject: Re: Genetics Question

knoepfle2

Offline

Hello Tiffany,

I do not know the genetic terms for this question of yours. I'm sure that one of the genetic experts will answer it for you, but ALL black headed Gouldians will have a red tipped beak, unless they are genetically orange headed, in which case the tip will be orange. So I would assume that the beak tip color and the head gene are unrelated, but this might be completely wrong.

Laraine
www.ladygouldianfinch.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Tiffany Park

To: GPA101Genetics@yahoogroups.com ; NFSS@yahoogroups.com ; ladygouldianfinches@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 12:27 AM

Subject: [GPA101Genetics] Genetics Question

I have come across a genetic conundrum that I'm sure has a simple solution but as of yet I can't wrap my head around what it is.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The situation is as follows:

My male (attached), Romeo, is a BH, Lilac/White, DF Yellow/Blue bird.
His father is a BH (TYB), Lilac/White, DF Yellow/Blue and his mom is BH, WB, Silver

Orange head requires at least one red head gene in order to be expressed, otherwise, as in the case of his father, you get a visually black head bird that has a yellow tip beak, identifying that the bird is genetically orange headed.

Here's my quandry..
If mom is BH, and dad is BH (YTB) - all babies would be BH/OH..
But also.. none of the babies would carry a single red gene.

My question revolves around the beak color of my male.

What is the relationship (if any) of the red tip beak color to the red head GENE?
Obviously there is some relationship of orange beak color and orange head color - but there is no possible way my bird can carry a red head gene.
Is this just a simple answer that the red in the beak and the red in the head color are completely unrelated?

Thanks,

Tiffany

#1630

From: "Tiffany Park" <nixity@...>
Date: Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:27 am
Subject: Genetics Question

nixitee

Offline

#1629

From: "Tiffany Park" <nixity@...>
Date: Thu Jan 15, 2009 1:13 am
Subject: Re: [NFSS] Question on Seagreens

nixitee

Offline

For those interested, I took some more photos tonight, and also took some of a normal hen in the same flight with her so the difference can be seen between a normal and this hen when taken with the same camera.

It was rather chilly in my bird room today (dropped to about 13 degrees here over night) so all my birds are a little fluffy right now :) They are indoors, clearly, but for some reason my "bird room" is always about 5-10 degrees colder than the rest of my house. No idea why..

1st photo is of a RH, WB, Normal hen - last two are of the Hen in question.

Thanks again everyone :)

Tiffany

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 6:04 PM, <FinchNFSS@...> wrote:

Hi Tiffany,

I had a seagreen hen that appeared in a normal clutch of greenbacks. I did some research and found that no-one really knows why we get these or where it comes from. She was so pretty and unusual that I took her along to the Baltimore Bird Fanciers show a couple of years ago so that other Gouldian breeders could see her. Well, when she went through her first adult molt she lost the seagreen color and truned into a regular greenback. Her name is Seagreen Annie. I tried breedig her with a split to blue and a blue back - but was never able to produce a seagreen. Her mom is a OH/WB greenback and her dad was an OH/PB greenback. No blue that I know of in either line and I have records on both parents going back ten generations.

There is a guy in Europe that is doing research on them, and said that he has only seen seagreen hens - no males. He said that mine was one of the nicest examples that he has seen yet. He, as yet, can not explain why this happens. If you find any other information, I would love to know more as well.

Carol in PA

-----Original Message-----
From: Tiffany Park <nixity@...>
To: NFSS@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, 14 Jan 2009 4:43 pm
Subject: Re: [NFSS] Question on Seagreens

Thank you for the information Katy.
I think the question remains regarding the heritability of the trait and whether or not Seagreen is actually heritable and if it is, what the pattern of inheritance is.
I'm mostly interested to see if anyone out there has had success breeding them, and if they have, what exactly the results or breeding situations were.
As it is, I can not breed her to any relatives because she's the only one I have.
I would also like to avoid breeding her to a related bird simply because based on her size relative to all of the other offspring in the 3 generations from this line it's obvious that whatever flipped on to make her Seagreen also affected her elsewhere genetically and I don't want to risk producing weak offspring by backbreeding to related birds.

I was hoping to hear if breeding to a recessive blue would help the mutation to manifest and whether it was possible that this is another derivative of blue that works similarly (in the way pigmentation is expressed, and in the way it is inherited) or if it is something completely different than can only be reproduced by having another bird possessing the Seagreen element around.

I hope that makes sense :\

Thanks again!

Tiffany

On Wed, Jan 14, 2009 at 4:17 PM, wolfigirl <spitechan@...> wrote:

If it is inheritable and not a dominant mutation, then breeding her to a son would be an easy obvious way to tell. Sons and daughters should all be split, so back crossing to her would provide 50% full Seagreens and 50% splits. To establish it as a mutation (if recessive), breed her (and any full seagreen offspring from the MotherxSon mating) to several completely unrelated normal(wildtype) gouldian males each to get several lines of splits going. Mate the halfbrothers and halfsisters to each other to create new Seagreens which will become the heads of new family lines for diversifying the bloodline again by repeating the process.

Just remember, splits diversify your bloodline, fulls concentrate the bloodline. Until you've gotten several generations of breeding unrelated splits together, you shouldn't breed the fulls to each other. You could breed a full to an unrelated split at certain points generationally and see how vigorous the babies are and once you start seeing strong offspring, then you can probably consider breeding full seagreens to each other.

If you can find another Seagreen, try mating it to yours. I'm not sure what the results would be, because if yours is truely a separate mutant event, then the genes may not coincide. Think of Isabel Zebra finches and Florida Fancy Zebra finches. They look the same, but the genes are different.

- Katy

- Katy

--- On Wed, 1/14/09, Tiffany Park <nixity@...> wrote:

I sent this to the Genetics group but have yet to get a response, so I thought I would send it here as well.

I recently acquired a Seagreen from a respectable breeder who does not work with mutations. She generously donated her to my flock for me to try working with her.
She is an adorable little hen that is a true mutant - she just popped up in the 3rd generation of a line of true breeding YH, PB Normal backed birds (none are split for anything and she is the first and last produced of her kind).
According to the breeder, she is a bit petite compared to her relatives (not TINY, she is between 16-17 grams) but she is well proportioned and looks good to me.

I am having a difficult time finding good information online about this mutation/modificati on, and I understand there is only a small existing population of them currently in the US.

Can anyone offer me any advice regarding this mutation/modificati on?
She will not be bred anytime soon (she is not in breeding condition and is only a little over 1 year old), but what should I consider in the future in terms of mate selection in terms of possibly replicating the back color in offspring? My understanding is that it's not known whether this is even heritable, but I'm wondering if anyone out there right now is working with them, and if so - any info you can provide or point me in the direction of would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Tiffany

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