I had great luck with Pill Pockets by Greenies.  Soft pliable cheese that you
can wrap around the pill worked also.

Ann & Toe (UTB 7/8/09)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: suerogers1959@...
   To: dogladie4@... ; LP@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 12:09 PM
   Subject: [SPAM] Re: [LP] pills for a post UTP -LP dog



   Have you tried cheese. I can make a ball out of cheese and it fools Scarlet
   everytime. Hot dog sausages are quite good too. I definitely would not put
   them down the throat though. In the UK you can buy purpose made treats for
   placing pills in that are not dry but moist.

   Sue & Scarlet utb 20/8/09

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have you tried cheese. I can make a ball out of cheese and it fools Scarlet
  everytime. Hot dog sausages are quite good too. I definitely would not put
them  down the throat though. In the UK you can buy purpose made treats for
placing  pills in that are not dry but moist.

Sue & Scarlet utb 20/8/09


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Awe, bless your heart Mickey!! I know how difficult it is when our kids
aren't up to par... (boy do I ever, especially with Jasmine)

I'm playing catch up so I will respond to the other msg too...

Did you get the blood test results back?

If his vet doesn't feel it's neuro-related and you keep him on Deramaxx, you
may want to consider Milk Thistle or better yet, Liv.52 by Himalaya, to help
protect his liver. When Jasmine went in for gastroplexy and splenectomy
after bloating/torsion, the surgeon biopsied her liver b/c it didn't look
good. The bloat/torsion damaged her liver but I was able to help her reverse
the damage with high doses of milk thistle (5 days on, 3 days off) for the
first month or so. I then gave her Liv.52 at the human dosage and sometimes
doubled it when her appetite was up. Blood values 2 months after her surgery
came back within normal range.

You may also want to consider Adequan - I had GREAT results with it for
Jasmine gurrrl. She showed remarkable improvement after the 3rd or 4th
injection of her loading dose. Let me know if you're interested in Adequan
and I'll get you more info.

I think someone made a great suggestion in response to "Igor on the Bed".
Judith I think? I was going to say you shouldn't let him on the bed at all
if you're not there but she made a very good point that it has been *his*
spot for some time. It's special to him and her suggestion of the gates
sound like a good idea.

In regards to his back end always ending up on the floor - Buddie does that
too. I haven't quite figured out why but he usually has all of his body
stretched out on his bed, all except from the hips down! ??

Also, I don't mean to be a smart alec but maybe Igor is workin' it? ALL of
my dogs do when they know the will get attn or sympathy from me. Limps are
exaggerated with the pups, the seniors will stick to me like glue and
usually stare at me when they want something - there are times when I look
over and 2 are just sitting there a few feet from me or even in the other
room, staring at me! Kind of creepy sometimes but they know I will
eventually look their direction so they stand there like statues! Once I ask
them what their doing or say their names, they'll come over to their food
bowls or will nudge the pantry door. I don't think they're hungry..they
probably don't know what they want, except my attn and they'll do what they
can to get it! ;-)

Give Igor some (extra) lovins from me and the kids. Best of luck and please
post updates on what works and what doesn't. Hopefully he'll get up and
moving so he can build up his strength and get back into his routine.

Teri and the 'kids'

Teri, Mykal & Jasmine in Spirit, along with the punks in their pack of
Heathens: Elizabeth, Gimpy & Buddie too!.... & Ellie Mae, Bella, Skye, Lilah
Jane, & Ashland too!
Mykal Gris Angelo at the Bridge 09.13.95-07.03.07
Choc Lab/11y,10m/UTB 05.08.07 (passing not LP-related)
http://www.petsupports.com/mykal.htm
Kaylee's Jasmine Mogadishu at the Bridge 03.08.94-09.16.09
Blk Lab/15y,6m/Deaf, Spindle Cell Ugliness, Luckily No LP
http://www.petsupports.com/a05/jasmine.htm
Buddie aka Budder Cup Butt Gotcha Date 11.19.07
Choc Lab/10-11y?/UTB 11.03.08 Holding Strong!

   -----Original Message-----
   From: LP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Mickey
Miller
   Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 3:14 PM
   To: LP@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [LP] possible AP? - long



   Hey, all.  I haven't posted for quite a while, mostly because Igor, my
11-year-old greyhound, has been doing well.

   Not so much right now.

   He's been having trouble with arthritis in his hips the last month or so.
Mostly wobbling much more than in the past, and he wiped out a couple times.
We started him on Deramaxx, which seemed to be making a big difference; in
addition, we have limited his walks, not letting him run around at our farm;
have been giving him glucosamine (although he's recently decided he doesn't
like the chews anymore); and making him use the ramp to go in and out of the
house. My vet does not feel that his issues are neurological, related to his
LP.

   He had been doing pretty well.  Tuesday I took him to the vet to do a
follow up blood test, to make sure the Deramaxx isn't hurting his liver.  It
was kind of a traumatic trip to start with.  They took him back to do the
blood test and he wouldn't walk, so they ended up carrying him.  When they
brought him back to me in the exam room, he was wobbly, and his legs were
definitely weak and tired.  We left, and as he was trying to get into my
car, he fell. He had his front paws on the back seat, and had just gotten
his back legs up on the running board, and he fell backwards.  So he pretty
much landed on his tail/tailbone.  He's so heavy, I couldn't stop him from
falling; all I could do was cradle him and try to keep him from hitting the
concrete too hard.  Poor baby laid there, on the cold rainy concrete,
shaking, stunned, and finally just dropped his head on the ground. I had to
call inside and have a tech come out and help me pick him up and get
   him in the car.  When we got home, David and I had to pull him out of the
car on his blanket, then David had to carry him inside and lay him down on
his bed.

   On Tuesday, he didn't get up much, but he WAS still getting up, though
struggling.  When he would get up, he had a very wide stance with his back
legs, like he was bracing himself. He even got on the couch (with my help)
and off the couch (by himself). I was asleep on the other couch, so I don't
know how that descent went.

   Yesterday, he didn't get up on his own at all, but he was still sitting up
regularly.  I went back to the vet to get him some Tramadol, assuming he's
probably in pain. When we got him up and carried him outside to potty, he
was able to walk a little, though was extremely wobbly, and I had to catch
him several times.  Granted, he could have been a little stoned.  And it was
3 am.  He did pee, and pooped, though I kind of had to brace his back legs
for him so he could squat.

   Tuesday and Wednesday, he did eat and drink pretty normally, though
yesterday I noticed when he was drinking, he had very gurgly sounding coughs
(he still coughs every single time he drinks water).

   Today he is still eating fine, but doesn't seem interested in drinking.
He's also been mostly lying down, extremely lethargic, though he could be
stoned from the Tramadol.

   All he seems to want is for one of us (mainly mama) to lay on the floor
with him or, at the very least, not to leave the room.

   I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me until just now, that him lying down
all the time could make him more prone to AP?  His temp has been pretty
normal for him, though I just took it and it is up a little, while his feet
and ears are cold.

   I'm assuming that the consensus will be, "Get your butt to the vet for a
shot of Baytril!!!"  Any other suggestions, though?  Should I be trying to
make him sit up?

   Thanks for any suggestions.

   Mickey Miller and Igor (UTB 9-4-09)

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I had the exact problem with my Mykal - he knew when pills were hidden and
he figured out how to get the pill out of the food and literally spit the
pill out, and then swallow the food! LOL

I asked Mykal and Buddie's surgeon (and Jasmine's too) if pilling on either
side was safe. He said it shouldn't matter but if I wanted to take an extra
precaution - pill on the opposite side of the tie back. In general, if the
surgeon is right handed, the tie back will be on the left and vice versa.
The surgeon's records should indicate which side she/he tied back.

Instead of using the technique you describe, you might try one that is much,
much simpler.... Place the pill on the back of the tongue, just on the
inside of but behind the last tooth. Swallowing is involuntary and instant
and the pill is gone. This way, there's no need to hold the mouth closed at
all - I've never had to do that.

Depending on the med, you may want to make sure his throat isn't dry. Or
what I do - since my kids know what's coming when they hear me open a pill
bottle, they also know they are getting a nice treat. I hold the treat in
one hand after letting them smell it, they are so interested in the treat
that they just want the pill thing out of the way so they can have the
treat! The treat takes the pill down if it's slow going...

Once you get the hang of it, you will be surprised at how easy it actually
is.

Hope this helps....

Teri and the 'kids'

Teri, Mykal & Jasmine in Spirit, along with the punks in their pack of
Heathens: Elizabeth, Gimpy & Buddie too!.... & Ellie Mae, Bella, Skye, Lilah
Jane, & Ashland too!
Mykal Gris Angelo at the Bridge 09.13.95-07.03.07
Choc Lab/11y,10m/UTB 05.08.07 (passing not LP-related)
http://www.petsupports.com/mykal.htm
Kaylee's Jasmine Mogadishu at the Bridge 03.08.94-09.16.09
Blk Lab/15y,6m/Deaf, Spindle Cell Ugliness, Luckily No LP
http://www.petsupports.com/a05/jasmine.htm
Buddie aka Budder Cup Butt Gotcha Date 11.19.07
Choc Lab/10-11y?/UTB 11.03.08 Holding Strong!


   -----Original Message-----
   From: LP@yahoogroups.com [mailto:LP@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of dogladie4
   Sent: Sunday, November 22, 2009 3:57 AM
   To: LP@yahoogroups.com
   Subject: [LP] pills for a post UTP -LP dog



   Sunshine needs to take antibiotics, but I can't get him to willingly
ingest them in something that's yummy. I'm afraid to do the normal protocal
of "putting it at the back of the throat and hold the mouth until he
swallows" routine. Will he inhale it into his lungs since he's had a
tie-back?
   I've checked the archives and all I find are suggestions for different
"yummies". This is no help. He's developed an uncanny ability to sense when
a pill is present in anything! Not only does he spit it out, as soon as he
gets a pill in it, it goes on his list (forever) of do not eat! He's even
passed on regular meals (we're raw feeders, so he gets a wide variety) that
have become associated with pills. I don't need suggestions for additional
treats - I've tried everything!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If you have a compounding pharmacy in your area you can have just about any
medication made into a liquid.  They even have flavors like fish, beef, and
chicken.  Just squirt it on a small portion of the meal to be sure it's taken,
then give the rest of the food.


Diana Langley
PawPrints Pet Sitting, LLC
San Diego, CA
619-624-0360
http://www.pawprints-petsitting.com

Sunshine needs to take antibiotics, but I can't get him to willingly ingest them
in something that's yummy. I'm afraid to do the normal protocal of "putting it
at the back of the throat and hold the mouth until he swallows" routine. Will he
inhale it into his lungs since he's had a tie-back?
I've checked the archives and all I find are suggestions for different
"yummies". This is no help. He's developed an uncanny ability to sense when a
pill is present in anything!  Not only does he spit it out, as soon as he gets a
pill in it, it goes on his list (forever) of do not eat! He's even passed on
regular meals (we're raw feeders, so he gets a wide variety) that have become
associated with pills. I don't need suggestions for additional treats - I've
tried everything!

Although this may seem silly, letting a dog on the bed is important, if that's
what they're used to and jumping off is an issue. J & J dog supply,
www.jjdog.com , sells plastic, folding gates (ring gates) that are economical
solutions to keeping dogs OFF the bed when needed (when my husband had hip
surgery) and ON when they shouldn't jump off! We bought 4 sets and use them
constantly to manage dog access - we have 5 big dogs!
Judith and the furheads




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks very much for everyone's responses and concern for Igor.
 
Igor did much better yesterday and today.  He actually let me sleep on the couch
Thursday night; no whining.  I didn't give him the Tramadol, and he seemed
pretty ok until Friday evening. When we were getting him up to go outside, he
was clearly in pain.
 
Both Friday and today, he has been silly and a little restless, and made it
clear he wanted to get up and move around. When we take him outside he continues
to insist on crossing the street and going for a walk.  Because of his
unsteadiness, I try not to pull him at all, or make him try to turn a tight
circle, so on Friday I did let him go straight over to the neighbor's yard to do
his business.
 
When David comes out to carry Igor back in the house, he does NOT want to go. 
That crazy wobbly hound is sure he can go for a walk, and seems a little
indignant that we don't agree with his assessment.
 

The big news is that Igor got up on his own this afternoon.  Not
surprisingly, he fell about 10 steps later, but it's still a great
accomplishment. David put him on our bed, which Igor seems ecstatic
about--nothing better than hanging on the bed with the Alpha.  And I'm sure it's
way more comfortable for him.  No matter how I arrange his beds and blankets, it
seems he ends up with his back end on the floor.
 
Of course the potential problem with this new development is that Igor will get
up on his own, but then fall somewhere and hurt himself, and not be able to
right himself. When I came home, Igor was totally ready to get up, jump off the
bed and come greet me.  With the difficulties in getting him up, I'm not sure
how we would crate him to prevent falling without our supervision.  Our
schedules are both very flexible right now, so it's rare that one of us can't be
with him.
 
Both Thursday and Friday nights, he got silly and played with me; last night he
even played with Emmylou, our Aussie mix. Poor Emmy is worried about him and, at
the same time, doesn't understand why he's getting all the attention.  So far
she hasn't acted out.
 
I ended up holding off on getting him checked for AP.  He's still coughing, but
now that we're getting him up and around more regularly, he seems much better
and the coughing has reduced.  Course I could live to regret that decision, but
right now things seem steady.  I'm so wary of getting him in the car and taking
him to the vet unless absolutely necessary.  Though if I want to get him
chiropractic or acupuncture treatment, he'll need to have an x-ray first.
 
We're just taking it a day at a time and hoping that things work out without too
much medical intervention.
 
Mickey Miller and Igor (UTB 9-4-08)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Mickey,

I know others more experienced with AP than I am will respond to your question

I wanted to offer suggestions for the hind end problem:

One of the many things that helps us for 2 of our dogs with hind end problems
are Adequan Injections.  There is a loading dose of twice a week for a few
weeks, then they done are monthly, and I give them at home.

We use a glucosamine supplement that includes MSM.  I was told by several
sources that the MSM is very important.

The other thing, if you have access to a Vet who does Acupuncture, or a regular
Acupuncturist who also sees dogs/animals:  this has made a HUGE difference for
one of our dogs who could not walk.  There are many others who have reported
improvement in hind end problems and mobility with the help of Acupuncture.

Here are some links that may help:


http://handicappedpets.com/www/index.php


This link is for the help/advice forums;  click on the one for "Mobility issues"

http://handicappedpet.net/helppets/


I hope Igor is soon feeling better.  I know this can be overwhelming...See if
you can order a support harness for Igor that will help you, so you don't hurt
your own back, and it may help Igor feel more in control/less helpless.  At one
point we had to use 2 of them--one "sling-type" under Max's belly, and another
one on his hind legs.  This will help until some of the meds kick in--the
Adequan,  tramadol, the MSM, or acupuncture, & other.  You can also use a towel
as a Sling, but I found the towels hard to hold onto with my hands.

There is another product I've heard some people use with success for this sort
of pain--a supplement called "Dog Gone Pain".

Also, avoid those horrible, slippery floors at the Vet that automatically set
your dog up for failure and stress him out--let the Vet know Igor CANNOT walk on
them--he either must be carried or wheeled in, or use a couple of inexpensive
rubber backed rug runners for him to walk on--if the Vet can't supply them, you
can find lightweight, inexpensive rubber backed ones at Walmart that roll up and
can be taken with you.

Good luck,
Dori



--- In LP@yahoogroups.com, Mickey Miller <mickey.miller67@...> wrote:
>
> Hey, all.  I haven't posted for quite a while, mostly because Igor, my
11-year-old greyhound, has been doing well. 
>  
> Not so much right now.
>  
> He's been having trouble with arthritis in his hips the last month or so.
Mostly wobbling much more than in the past, and he wiped out a couple times. We
started him on Deramaxx, which seemed to be making a big difference; in
addition, we have limited his walks, not letting him run around at our farm;
have been giving him glucosamine (although he's recently decided he doesn't like
the chews anymore); and making him use the ramp to go in and out of the house.
My vet does not feel that his issues are neurological, related to his LP.
>  
> He had been doing pretty well.  Tuesday I took him to the vet to do a follow
up blood test, to make sure the Deramaxx isn't hurting his liver.  It was kind
of a traumatic trip to start with.  They took him back to do the blood test and
he wouldn't walk, so they ended up carrying him.  When they brought him back to
me in the exam room, he was wobbly, and his legs were definitely weak and
tired.  We left, and as he was trying to get into my car, he fell. He had his
front paws on the back seat, and had just gotten his back legs up on the running
board, and he fell backwards.  So he pretty much landed on his tail/tailbone. 
He's so heavy, I couldn't stop him from falling; all I could do was cradle him
and try to keep him from hitting the concrete too hard.  Poor baby laid there,
on the cold rainy concrete, shaking, stunned, and finally just dropped his head
on the ground. I had to call inside and have a tech come out and help me pick
him up and get
>  him in the car.  When we got home, David and I had to pull him out of the car
on his blanket, then David had to carry him inside and lay him down on his bed.
>  
> On Tuesday, he didn't get up much, but he WAS still getting up, though
struggling.  When he would get up, he had a very wide stance with his back legs,
like he was bracing himself. He even got on the couch (with my help) and off the
couch (by himself). I was asleep on the other couch, so I don't know how that
descent went.
>  
> Yesterday, he didn't get up on his own at all, but he was still sitting up
regularly.  I went back to the vet to get him some Tramadol, assuming he's
probably in pain. When we got him up and carried him outside to potty, he was
able to walk a little, though was extremely wobbly, and I had to catch him
several times.  Granted, he could have been a little stoned.  And it was 3 am. 
He did pee, and pooped, though I kind of had to brace his back legs for him so
he could squat.
>  
> Tuesday and Wednesday, he did eat and drink pretty normally, though yesterday
I noticed when he was drinking, he had very gurgly sounding coughs (he still
coughs every single time he drinks water).
>  
> Today he is still eating fine, but doesn't seem interested in drinking.  He's
also been mostly lying down, extremely lethargic, though he could be stoned from
the Tramadol.
>  
> All he seems to want is for one of us (mainly mama) to lay on the floor with
him or, at the very least, not to leave the room.
>  
> I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me until just now, that him lying down all
the time could make him more prone to AP?  His temp has been pretty normal for
him, though I just took it and it is up a little, while his feet and ears are
cold.
>  
> I'm assuming that the consensus will be, "Get your butt to the vet for a shot
of Baytril!!!"  Any other suggestions, though?  Should I be trying to make him
sit up?
>  
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>  
> Mickey Miller and Igor (UTB 9-4-09)
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

My boy Shuksta had similar problems that suddenly seemed to worsen so
bad we thought it was time for us to consider putting him down.
However, the vet suggested there might be an underlying infection or
something (like urinary) so we just gave him a simple anitbiotic called
simplicef.  It was amazing within two days he was walking much better.
We took him off two weeks later and he went down hill again put him back
on and again he could walk again. The vet was surprised with the results
and said maybe the underlying infection was just enough to put his
weakened system over the edge and by keeping the whatever infection down
it helped...??  We kept him on Simplicef for the next five months until
he finally passed on his own at 15 1/2 years.

Regards,
Melody & Shuksta in memory
Dorothy Dunning wrote:

>Igor's symptoms sound more like arthritis than AP, especially since
>his temp is normal, but I'm not a vet.  If it is arthritis + neural
>degeneration (secondary to LP), you can help his legs to support him
>using the harness I suppose that he's wearing all the time now, plus
>one to support his rear end.  These are available online or can be
>contrived with towels and/or tote bags.  Leashes attached to these
>two can be placed around your shoulders so you can use your whole
>body to support him when he needs to move.  Otherwise let him lie on
>lots of pads on the floor, e.g. a rug, folded blankets, ripple foam
>and/or memory foam.  He'll probably tell you when he wants to get up.
>
>My Lucy is feeling her old bones now that the weather has turned
>normal.  She also licks her wrists, for they pain her.  She gets
>glucosamine and chondroitin, but maybe it's time for Deramaxx or
>equivalent.  She's stronger on her forequarters than the hind ones,
>and I help her up stairs every nite.  So far she manages the deck
>stairs to and from the pen on her own.
>
>

--
Melody La Montia
http://lamontia.com

Igor's symptoms sound more like arthritis than AP, especially since
his temp is normal, but I'm not a vet.  If it is arthritis + neural
degeneration (secondary to LP), you can help his legs to support him
using the harness I suppose that he's wearing all the time now, plus
one to support his rear end.  These are available online or can be
contrived with towels and/or tote bags.  Leashes attached to these
two can be placed around your shoulders so you can use your whole
body to support him when he needs to move.  Otherwise let him lie on
lots of pads on the floor, e.g. a rug, folded blankets, ripple foam
and/or memory foam.  He'll probably tell you when he wants to get up.

My Lucy is feeling her old bones now that the weather has turned
normal.  She also licks her wrists, for they pain her.  She gets
glucosamine and chondroitin, but maybe it's time for Deramaxx or
equivalent.  She's stronger on her forequarters than the hind ones,
and I help her up stairs every nite.  So far she manages the deck
stairs to and from the pen on her own.
--
Dody Dunning
Mt Morris, PA
IACP #1184

Hey, all.  I haven't posted for quite a while, mostly because Igor, my
11-year-old greyhound, has been doing well. 
 
Not so much right now.
 
He's been having trouble with arthritis in his hips the last month or so. Mostly
wobbling much more than in the past, and he wiped out a couple times. We started
him on Deramaxx, which seemed to be making a big difference; in addition, we
have limited his walks, not letting him run around at our farm; have been giving
him glucosamine (although he's recently decided he doesn't like the chews
anymore); and making him use the ramp to go in and out of the house. My vet does
not feel that his issues are neurological, related to his LP.
 
He had been doing pretty well.  Tuesday I took him to the vet to do a follow up
blood test, to make sure the Deramaxx isn't hurting his liver.  It was kind of a
traumatic trip to start with.  They took him back to do the blood test and he
wouldn't walk, so they ended up carrying him.  When they brought him back to me
in the exam room, he was wobbly, and his legs were definitely weak and tired. 
We left, and as he was trying to get into my car, he fell. He had his front paws
on the back seat, and had just gotten his back legs up on the running board, and
he fell backwards.  So he pretty much landed on his tail/tailbone.  He's so
heavy, I couldn't stop him from falling; all I could do was cradle him and try
to keep him from hitting the concrete too hard.  Poor baby laid there, on the
cold rainy concrete, shaking, stunned, and finally just dropped his head on the
ground. I had to call inside and have a tech come out and help me pick him up
and get
  him in the car.  When we got home, David and I had to pull him out of the car
on his blanket, then David had to carry him inside and lay him down on his bed.
 
On Tuesday, he didn't get up much, but he WAS still getting up, though
struggling.  When he would get up, he had a very wide stance with his back legs,
like he was bracing himself. He even got on the couch (with my help) and off the
couch (by himself). I was asleep on the other couch, so I don't know how that
descent went.
 
Yesterday, he didn't get up on his own at all, but he was still sitting up
regularly.  I went back to the vet to get him some Tramadol, assuming he's
probably in pain. When we got him up and carried him outside to potty, he was
able to walk a little, though was extremely wobbly, and I had to catch him
several times.  Granted, he could have been a little stoned.  And it was 3 am. 
He did pee, and pooped, though I kind of had to brace his back legs for him so
he could squat.
 
Tuesday and Wednesday, he did eat and drink pretty normally, though yesterday I
noticed when he was drinking, he had very gurgly sounding coughs (he still
coughs every single time he drinks water).
 
Today he is still eating fine, but doesn't seem interested in drinking.  He's
also been mostly lying down, extremely lethargic, though he could be stoned from
the Tramadol.
 
All he seems to want is for one of us (mainly mama) to lay on the floor with him
or, at the very least, not to leave the room.
 
I'm not sure why it didn't occur to me until just now, that him lying down all
the time could make him more prone to AP?  His temp has been pretty normal for
him, though I just took it and it is up a little, while his feet and ears are
cold.
 
I'm assuming that the consensus will be, "Get your butt to the vet for a shot of
Baytril!!!"  Any other suggestions, though?  Should I be trying to make him sit
up?
 
Thanks for any suggestions.
 
Mickey Miller and Igor (UTB 9-4-09)




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What is Lucien eating at her regular meals?  Is there any way you can
put the clavamox in some of that?  The pills are large, but even if
you may not completely crush them, you probably can subdivide each
into several clumps of food.  If you suspect she's allergic to that
food, you've got to try something else anyway, for she's got to eat.
So just put the pills into the food she's eating, one way or another.
--
Dody Dunning
Mt Morris, PA
IACP #1184

I am sure I have missed your deadline so I hope that you have found a
solution but wonder if you have thought of emailing the pharmaceutical
manufacturer? I have done this may times and found them to be very helpful. If 
you
are using a product made for animals there is usually a vet to respond. I
mention this as Scarlet has Glaucoma and has to use human drugs on her eyes
and  they have side effects which I have discussed with these companies, both
here in  the UK and in the US. They do always point out they are designed
for humans and  not dogs but they have still been really helpful.

My other thought is that a long term slow release antibiotic by  injection
may prevent the whole need. My friends Golden Retriever has just  had one
for Pancreatitus!

Hope you find a good solution anyway.

Sue & Scarlet UTB 20/8/09


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My heart goes out to you. I just lost Smokee and I miss him so much. Let
the tears come as it is a time for greiving and healing but you will
always have Teague in your memories forever. I feel that I was so lucky
to have my Smokee. He was so very special just like your Teague.
Memories of your Teague will bring a smile to you and a warm glow.
God Bless,
Jo Ann

beachgoldens wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Last night we put Teague to sleep. The sac around his heart had filled
> with fluid and the prognosis looked very bad. Steve and I made the
> painful decision to not fight this latest crisis and let Teague go
> peacefully.
>
> His LP was no longer an issue because of the UTB, and we had the
> wonderful experience of the last four and a half months of having
> Teague be able to breathe without a struggle. Toward the end, whatever
> the neurological condition was that caused the LP also was
> compromising his mobility to the point where he relied on his front
> and rear harnesses to get around -- but he was happy. And he made us
> happy.
>
> To anyone who is considering the tie-back surgery, I can't recommend
> it enough. It really did give Teague four more months of life that he
> would not have had without it. And you all know that it is always a
> case of wanting "just one more day". I was so lucky to have had that
> and many more.
>
> Thanks to this list for helping us in the early days after surgery
> when I didn't know what to do -- esp. regarding food/feeding
> questions. I'll stay on the list and hopefully be able to give back to
> this wonderful community of people and their very loved dogs.
>
> Thank you all . . .
> --Alexis and Teague (UTB 7/9/09)
>
>


--
Jo Ann, 4 Musikkees and the BC
Breaker (Lock-Eye BC) Style X Peck 7-19-2007 NA GS-O RS-N JS-N CL2-H CL2-F ATTS
Rockee UD RAE OA OAJ GS-N JS-N RS-N CL2-R CL2-H CL2-S CL2-F
Misty NA NAJ CGC retired (2 THR)
UCD Sally CDX RE AX AXJ CGC retired (4 patella surgeries)
UCDX Smokee UD RAE MX MXJ CGC KCA-OHOF: OTCH PTD. and 9 of 10 UDX legs;
20 Dbl Qs and 400 MACH PTs retired (at the bridge)
Lucy CD NA NAJ CGC (at the bridge)
UCDX CH Beau UD MX AXJ FDX TDI (at the bridge)
UCDX Teddy CDX TDI (at the bridge)
UCD GIGI CDX CGC (at the bridge)
UCD BEBE CD CGC (at the bridge)
All of my Keeshonden are rescues except for Beau. All have been gifts
to my Husband and I from unknown donators who did not know or care what
wonderful Keeshonden they had.

Hi All,

Last night we put Teague to sleep.  The sac around his heart had filled with
fluid and the prognosis looked very bad.  Steve and I made the painful decision
to not fight this latest crisis and let Teague go peacefully.

His LP was no longer an issue because of the UTB, and we had the wonderful
experience of the last four and a half months of having Teague be able to
breathe without a struggle.  Toward the end, whatever the neurological condition
was that caused the LP also was compromising his mobility to the point where he
relied on his front and rear harnesses to get around -- but he was happy.  And
he made us happy.

To anyone who is considering the tie-back surgery, I can't recommend it enough. 
It really did give Teague four more months of life that he would not have had
without it.  And you all know that it is always a case of wanting "just one more
day".  I was so lucky to have had that and many more.

Thanks to this list for helping us in the early days after surgery when I didn't
know what to do -- esp. regarding food/feeding questions.  I'll stay on the list
and hopefully be able to give back to this wonderful community of people and
their very loved dogs.

Thank you all . . .
--Alexis and Teague (UTB 7/9/09)

Clavamox is light and air sensitive, which is why it comes in the foil packets
instead of a bottle like other meds, but crushing it should have no ill effects
as long as you give it right away.

Diana Langley
PawPrints Pet Sitting, LLC
San Diego, CA
619-624-0360
http://www.pawprints-petsitting.com

Hi,

Sorry Lucien is having such a hard time.  What crossed my mind about his
allergy symptoms was kennel cough - if he had been at the vet for two
days maybe he picked it up from another dog..?? Kennel cought does have
coughing and sometimes reverse sneezing... just a thought...

Good luck and hope Lucien has a speedu recovery.

Regards,
Melody and Shuksta in memory

Mary Jane Moeller wrote:

>Jill,
>
>I have not used Clavamox in my Labbies, but here is the Pfizer website.  There
is a bit on allergy, but nothing about crushing the pill.
>
>http://www.pfizerah.com/Product_Overview.aspx?drug=CT&country=US&lang=EN&specie\
s=CN
>
>Mary Jane
>
>mjmoelle@...
>Sable at The Bridge 7/19/02 (15 1/2, LP tieback, congenital heart failure,
neuropathy, splenectomy )
>Sable's girl, Lily, at The Bridge 3/02/06 (14 1/4, LP, cancer survivor,
kidney/liver/neurological failures)
>Lily's brother, Tiger, at The Bridge 11/13/06 (14 3/4, LP tieback, degenerative
myelopathy)
>Bear Pond Labrador Retrievers and
>Designer's Silver and Gold - "Sylvie" - adopted 7 year old yellow Labrador
Retriever
>
>"Acts of KINDNESS warm the Heart, soothe the Soul and make the World turn more
gently."
>
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
>  From: jill/jim huzella
>  To: Laryngeal Paralysis
>  Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:37 PM
>  Subject: [LP] Need Some Help!
>
>
>
>  Hello All-
>
>  Lucien vomited on Sunday, 11/8/09. This time she did aspirate, got pneumonia
& had to be hospitalized for 2 days on IV antibiotics. My question is this - can
Clavamox be crushed into her food? For the past year when she was on Clavamox,
we crushed it & added it to her moistened dry food. The ER Vet that was in
charge this time said Clavamox can't be rushed & should not be airborn - no
exceptions!! So, we have been putting it into a meatball, but crushing it is
much easier for Lucien to swallow. She is also having an allergic reaction to
something, but we don't know what - the meatball, the oral Baytril or the
Clavamox. If I can eliminate the meatballs, it would narrow my search as to what
is making her sneeze & reverse sneeze & cough all day & night. Has anyone ever
heard that Clavamox can't be crushed?? We just called CVS Pharmacy & they said
it was fine to crush it. They said people do it all of the time b/c they can't
swallow a whole pill.
>  She is due for her evening Clavamox around 9PM. If anyone is out there that
could respond A.S.A.P., we would really appreciate it. We would love to crush it
into her food!! Thanks so much in advance!!
>
>  Jill & Lucien
>
>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------------
>
>Scientific Studies folder on different LP surgeries -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/files/Scientific%20studies/
>
>Medical Information by Dr. Razz -
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/files/Lar%20Par%20Medical%20Information/
>
>Databases on LP dogs and Surgeons; input and update your info -
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/database
>
>Posting Guidelines, Pre-Op Suggestions, Post-Op Suggestions, More Info on LP,
List of Surgeons, etc. - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/files/
>
>LP Website - http://www.geocities.com/lplist
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Melody La Montia
http://lamontia.com

Jill,

I have not used Clavamox in my Labbies, but here is the Pfizer website.  There
is a bit on allergy, but nothing about crushing the pill.

http://www.pfizerah.com/Product_Overview.aspx?drug=CT&country=US&lang=EN&species\
=CN

Mary Jane

mjmoelle@...
Sable at The Bridge 7/19/02 (15 1/2, LP tieback, congenital heart failure,
neuropathy, splenectomy )
Sable's girl, Lily, at The Bridge 3/02/06 (14 1/4, LP, cancer survivor,
kidney/liver/neurological failures)
Lily's brother, Tiger, at The Bridge 11/13/06 (14 3/4, LP tieback, degenerative
myelopathy)
Bear Pond Labrador Retrievers and
Designer's Silver and Gold - "Sylvie" - adopted 7 year old yellow Labrador
Retriever

"Acts of KINDNESS warm the Heart, soothe the Soul and make the World turn more
gently."


   ----- Original Message -----
   From: jill/jim huzella
   To: Laryngeal Paralysis
   Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:37 PM
   Subject: [LP] Need Some Help!



   Hello All-

   Lucien vomited on Sunday, 11/8/09. This time she did aspirate, got pneumonia &
had to be hospitalized for 2 days on IV antibiotics. My question is this - can
Clavamox be crushed into her food? For the past year when she was on Clavamox,
we crushed it & added it to her moistened dry food. The ER Vet that was in
charge this time said Clavamox can't be rushed & should not be airborn - no
exceptions!! So, we have been putting it into a meatball, but crushing it is
much easier for Lucien to swallow. She is also having an allergic reaction to
something, but we don't know what - the meatball, the oral Baytril or the
Clavamox. If I can eliminate the meatballs, it would narrow my search as to what
is making her sneeze & reverse sneeze & cough all day & night. Has anyone ever
heard that Clavamox can't be crushed?? We just called CVS Pharmacy & they said
it was fine to crush it. They said people do it all of the time b/c they can't
swallow a whole pill.
   She is due for her evening Clavamox around 9PM. If anyone is out there that
could respond A.S.A.P., we would really appreciate it. We would love to crush it
into her food!! Thanks so much in advance!!

   Jill & Lucien





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello All-

Lucien vomited on Sunday, 11/8/09.  This time she did aspirate, got pneumonia &
had to be hospitalized for 2 days on IV antibiotics.  My question is this - can
Clavamox be crushed into her food?  For the past year when she was on Clavamox,
we crushed it & added it to her moistened dry food.  The ER Vet that was in
charge this time said Clavamox can't be crushed & should not be airborn - no
exceptions!!  So, we have been putting it into a meatball, but crushing it is
much easier for Lucien to swallow.  She is also having an allergic reaction to
something, but we don't know what - the meatball, the oral Baytril or the
Clavamox.  If I can eliminate the meatballs, it would narrow my search as to
what is making her sneeze & reverse sneeze & cough all day & night.   Has anyone
ever heard that Clavamox can't be crushed??  We just called CVS Pharmacy & they
said it was fine to crush it.  They said people do it all of the time b/c they
can't swallow a whole pill.
   She is due for her evening Clavamox around 9PM.  If anyone is out there that
could respond A.S.A.P., we would really appreciate it.  We would love to crush
it into her food!!  Thanks so much in advance!!

Jill & Lucien

Finn, my 3 yo Alaskan Malamute had his UTB on 12 October.  The surgery was the
best thing we could have done for him and he is now a 'new' 3 yo dog!  After
reading recent messages posted I realise how lucky we have been so far with
Finn's recovery.  His first few days home after the operation weren't great, as
he had some vomiting, but he soon got over that.  We were supposed to keep him
quiet for 4 weeks, but Finn had other ideas.  He's now running and playing with
Morgan, our German Shepherd and his breathing is fantastic!  He has a pink
tongue - all the time - and after running he pants just like a 'normal' dog!  We
still say every day that it"s a miracle.  I know that we might have some rough
times ahead, but to see Finn being able to run around the yard is so heart
warming.  As we're heading in to summer (Brisbane, Australia) and already
experiencing temperatures over 40 degrees celcius I really am thankful that we
took the next step for Finn.  Thank you to everyone who has posted messages
about their experiences, it really helped me watch out for Finn.
Amanda & Finn (utb 12/10/2009)

So very sorry to hear of your Bogey's passing. It is touch-and-go w/ my LP/UTB
dog (surgery 9/24/09); we're dealing w/ AP now & I think about possible life w/o
him just to prepare myself. It's SO difficult. We send peace & comfort your
way...

Sarah Benson & Buddy




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello,

As promised a while ago, my newsletter on LP is finally coming out.

If you are not receiving my newsletter yet, you're welcome to do so, it's free
on my web site (www.DrPhilZeltzman.com ). No, there is no catch.

And beyond LP, we talk about a different topic every week: cancer, arthritis,
pet loss, pet dangers...

Phil Zeltzman, DVM, DACVS
Board-certified surgeon in PA
www.DrPhilZeltzman.com

8/14/08

LARYNGEAL PARALYSIS LIST - GUIDELINES FOR POSTING

These guidelines will be automatically sent to the list every two weeks, so
please don't think I'm picking on any one person when they appear. I just want
to make sure the list runs smoothly and everyone is able to get as much benefit
as possible out of the LP list!  Number 1 is especially important since it will
help cut down on volume and allow our list to be as informative as possible
without there being too much "chit-chat".  Thanks!

1.  Messages of encouragement, moral support and general good wishes should be
sent privately to the poster.  I certainly don't want to see the "family
atmosphere" disappear, but not everyone has time to read every get well wish or
glad the checkup went okay or those types of posts.   I have now set up the list
so that when you hit “Reply”, it only goes to the sender of that post.  If you
hit, “Reply all,” it will go to the entire LP list as well.  If you only want it
to go to the LP list, make sure that's the address that's in the "to" field. 
Please think carefully about whether you think the whole list needs to read your
response or whether it’s something that the sender is really the only one to
benefit from before you decide which way to send it.

2.  Include your LP dog’s name and email address with your signature (i.e., Jane
Doe & Rover, jdoe@...).  That will make it easier for people to just
click on that to respond privately (especially people who just read the mail
through the Yahoo website), and it will help people keep straight who each
poster is.  Lots of times we remember the dogs’ names before we remember the
people’s names!   If anyone needs instructions on how to figure out someone's
email address so they can respond privately, just let me know.

3. Please cut and paste!  Some of the messages have had a one or two line reply
and then the whole original post is added to the end or at the beginning or
somewhere in the middle.  This makes it tough for the people who get the list in
digest form to read the new post, and the digests also get very long without a
lot of new information in them.  When you reply, feel free to cut and paste one
or two lines of what you're replying to (with so many new people and dogs all
the time, I think it's good to have SOME portion of the old post so we don't all
end up confused!), but the whole original message does not need to be included
with your email.

4.  Off-Topic Senior Dog/Health Posts.  Even though this is technically a
laryngeal paralysis group, I also think it's branched out a bit to be somewhat
of a senior dog list (since most of our LPers are older) and a support group
when one of us loses our beloved friends.  I don't want to put an end to that,
so if you have a non-LP problem with your older dog that you feel we may be able
to help with, feel free to post.  Posts that may give some input into the
problem may be sent either privately or to the group, but posts that say I don't
know anything that will help you, but you're in my thoughts and prayers or
something along those lines should be sent privately.  And by all means continue
to share about your friends, even if they may no longer be with us.  I think it
helps the healing process and they're a part of our family, too.

5.  Contacting Third-Party Surgeons Off List.  Contacting surgeons who are not
on the list, and/or with whom you have no personal relationship, in a negative
way will not be tolerated on this LP list.

Any information given to this list by surgeons, whether by them personally or
through another party, is provided for educational/informational purposes only. 
While a surgeon can't help out with individual cases since they haven't seen
your dog, they are able to give us general information about a lot of things
based on their experience, training and knowledge.  As always, you're the only
one who knows what's right for your dog, what you feel comfortable with, and as
such, you may choose to either accept or reject what a surgeon says.

If you would like to clarify something a surgeon says, it should be done in a
professional, unemotional manner.  If the surgeon has posted to the list
themselves, of  course you can respond to them either privately or via the list,
but if a surgeon who is not a list member has simply agreed that a fellow list
member can forward their opinion, you should ask that fellow list member to ask
the surgeon for clarification.

Contacting surgeons who are not on the list, and/or with whom you have no
personal relationship, in a negative way will not be tolerated on this LP list. 
Not only do you run the risk of jeopardizing a relationship between the list
member who originally got permission to forward the email and their surgeon, but
you also run the risk of causing irreparable harm to list members who could have
benefited from expertise that will no longer be so freely given.

Thanks for your cooperation and hugs to all the four-legged critters!  :)

Laurie Collins & Sandy (6/3/84-9/8/00); Survived four years after her unilateral
tieback
SaBrIrTo4@...
LP List Moderator

Sorry to hear of your loss. I just wanted you to know that your dog may not have
died from something he ate, but a bug that is circulating that caused the death
of two of my shelties and almost a third, and has caused the deaths of many
other dogs. The sypmtoms include high fever, low whit blood count,  then the
symptoms you described including pneumonia. The dogs show no symptoms and are
dead within 24 hours of onset of symptoms.

Carol in memory of Britt

--- In LP@yahoogroups.com, "shadowaces2000" <shadow999@...> wrote:
>
> On Monday around 11am, my sweet Dimitri suddenly passed away.  We are
heartbroken and still in shock.  He was a Leonberger and only 3.5 years old.  He
had his tieback surgery in April, zero complications, he was completely amazing.
Has had no troubles since.  Then suddenly Sunday afternoon he started with the
runs, then he threw up, which of course for an LP dog can be very dangerous.  We
rushed him to the ER vet, chest x rays showed extreme AP.  He got worse, then
around 2am that night I got good news, heart rate back to normal, and no more
bowel troubles or puking.  Finally I was able to sleep thinking I would wake up
in the morning to hear more good news that he turned a corner overnight, and was
really improving.  But sadly that morning I find out his white cell count was
down to .9, poor fella used everything he had to fight the infection waiting for
the anti bios to start working but they just couldn't work fast enough.  He was
my sweet angel, touched everyone who saw him, and he literally stopped traffic
as people drove by because he was so big and beautiful.  The heartbreak and
shock has not eased at all, I went to work Sunday morning and he was perfectly
fine.  We had no idea what caused the stomach upset in the first place, I
suspected he ate something but we didn't know what.  He was seen licking his
chops in the yard Halloween night.  Then today, my husband found a plastic bag
under the leaves when he was mowing, it had obviously been injested and come
back out.  Looks like someone threw something over the fence, being Halloween
who knows what some idiot thought would be a good idea.  We don't know.  And I
guess never will.  Anyways, I will stop my babbling, I am hoping getting this
typed out will somehow be helpful to me.  I am not coping well, and if anyone
has any tips on that please let me know.  His brother Frankie, (husky/border
collie) is completely lost, they bonded as babies at 8 weeks of age.  He keeps
looking for him, and it's unbearable.  Losing a family member at any age is
awful, but when a life is cut way too short, especially without warning, it
seems even harder for the brain to process it.  Thanks for listening, and my
heart goes out to the others who have recently lost a part of their family too. 
And best of luck to anyone who is considering the surgery.  I know it gave my
big fella 6 months of easy breathing that he would not have had prior to
surgery.  And if it wasn't for some jerk throwing something over my fence he
would still be here and happily breathing nicely too.
>
> Michelle & sweet Dimitri at the bridge with brother Spikey he can finally meet
>

Thanks to all of the group for your wonderful messages of support when hearing
about the death of my Black Lab Bogey.  I am very grateful that I was able to be
there for him when he passed and that I did not have to make that decision that
we all dread having to make.  And thanks for reminding me that thanks to Bogey's
successful surgery with Dr. Sadanaga years ago and posting about it, it allowed
other people to find their way to the Doctor and experience some great results
with the surgery and their LP puppy.

The house is very quiet now and coming home from work is the hardest part - not
having someone to greet me.  But I know he is in a better place - pain free -
and he is meeting and playing with all of the other wonderful dogs that have had
to deal with this disease.  I will continue to be part of the group to hear how
you all are doing with your pups.   Once the pain has gone away, my daughter
really wants to rescue another lab so I am sure we will be speaking on one of
the groups in the future!

Thanks for sharing.

Chris


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My Sussex Spaniel, Charlie, is the
inspiration of today's "Draw the Dog" cartoon.
This is a great site and makes me laugh almost
every day. The artist takes his ideas from stories
that get sent to him. Today is just happens to
be my Silly Sussex Spaniel, Charlie.
Please check it out at http://drawthedog.com/?p=340.
I am sure it will give you a smile. Then check out some
of the other drawing - there are some great ones

Doris
 Godiva Labradors & Sussex Spaniels
Where Chocolate Labs are Sweeter and
Sussex Make you Smile.
See our home page at http://www.godivalabs.com
LP EMAIL LIST http://groups.yahoo.com/group/LP/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Almost 3 1/2 years ago, Dr. Sadanaga gave my dog Bogey a second chance at life
and although it was getting harder for him to get around because of his legs,
Bogey had a wonderful additional 3 1/2 years.  Friday night at the age of almost
14 my Black Lab Bogey unexpectedly, h had 3 small seizures over the course of 1
hr and passed away in my arms as I was telling him that we loved him and that he
was such a good dog and it was time for him to go run with some of his old
friends with no pain.   It has been a very tough 2 days - the house so very
quiet.  My 13 year old daughter lost her only brother.  The hardest is when we
come home and he is not there to greet us.   I know he is in a much better place
- pain free - and he spared us of having to make a very tough decision but I
will miss my very special friend who was always there to lick my tears when I
was sad or jump around with us when we were happy.