Hi Mike --
   Great idea for a club. Elizabeth is correct in saying that most of us
avoid vets as a matter of life & death. I was appointed vet. liason at a
univ. to "protect them against the evil researchers", but ended up
protecting the buns from the vet.  I had complete freedom to diagnose &
treat the buns for 18 years, access to drugs, etc.  Hopefully I can use
this knowledge to help other bunnies out there.
Marcy

Hi Mike
I think this is a great idea as many times when faced with an ailing bunny
it is good to have others input into what treatment should be undertaken.
sometimes the only option is to go to a vet either to get the appropriate
medicine when herbal or homeopathec  remedies are not working or practicable
or if surgery is needed such as for a broken limb  or as I did this week for
mammory tumours & spaying.    The vet only removed the large tumour & left
the others which didnt have obvious tumours & just appeared a bit swollen &
he thought/hoped they would probably shrink now she has been spayed & with
the anti biotic treatment.    I must admit I was worried about doing this
surgery as it was the first time the vet had attempted to remove tumours
plus spaying on a rabbit, not to mention that she was an older rabbit of 8
years!  His prognosis was cautious as it was quite a long time she was under
anaesthesia & the mammory tumour he removed was the size of a golf ball &
was cancerous but he felt that it came out quite cleanly with no obvoius
signs that it had spread to other organs although her womb was rather messy
& enlarged.    This is apparently quite common on older rabbits according to
everything I have read.
However so far (touch wood) she is doing well but I need suggestions on how
to get her to eat more.   She was given a vitamin B injection to increase
her appetite but she is still only nibbling at things, such as parsley the
odd dock leaf, willow leaves, chick weed & a little hay.   She is reasonably
bright though which is a plus.   The surgery was done two days ago.

Lyn
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike & Ros <mike@...>
To: <RabbitVet@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: [RabbitVet] Welcome


> From: "Mike & Ros" <mike@...>
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> I'm a breeder myself, although not a very experienced one, and I'm
certainly
> not a vet.
>
> There are times when rabbit problems are outside our individual comfort
> zones and at those times It may best to visit an experienced rabbit vet,
> particularly when the animal is a pet.
>
> But its expensive to see a vet and you're right, many vets deal mainly
with
> cats and dogs and are not rabbit experts.
>
> I'm sure that together, breeders and others on this list have experienced
> most of the problems rabbits can suffer from.
>
> That's why I started this list and I'm glad you've joined us.
>
> Thanks for being part of this resource.
> Mike
>
>

I agree that many vets are inexperienced or disinterested in rabbits
but they do have their uses.  I utilise a lot of alternative methods
and herbs where I can but sometimes it is necessary to get medication
from the vets e.g. antibiotics (say for wryneck).  What I have done
is find a vet who is willing to learn about rabbits.  I then
downloaded from vet schools all and any info that I can find on
rabbit medicine including the technical stuff, formatted it and then
handed it onto that vet.  Now that vet respects my opinion so that if
I ask for a particular medication, he gives it to me or suggests an
alternative.  He is now the club recommended vet and works closely
with us.  This is how we improved our vet for our own purposes.
Having said that, on average I seldom need to visit him and treat my
rabbits myself for the majority of cases.  Most breeders I know do
much the same.

Hi Elizabeth,

I'm a breeder myself, although not a very experienced one, and I'm certainly
not a vet.

There are times when rabbit problems are outside our individual comfort
zones and at those times It may best to visit an experienced rabbit vet,
particularly when the animal is a pet.

But its expensive to see a vet and you're right, many vets deal mainly with
cats and dogs and are not rabbit experts.

I'm sure that together, breeders and others on this list have experienced
most of the problems rabbits can suffer from.

That's why I started this list and I'm glad you've joined us.

Thanks for being part of this resource.
Mike


----- Original Message -----
From: <GannettB@...>
To: <RabbitVet@onelist.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2000 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: [RabbitVet] Welcome


> From: GannettB@...
>
> Hi Mike!
> You are aware that some of us experienced breeders don't have a lot of
> respect for vets. Most of us have horror stories we could tell about what
> happens when sick rabbits and vets that don't know anything about rabbits
but
> won't admit mix.
> I personally will try not to run anyone down on this list. But I have to
warn
> you that when it comes to rabbit breeding, most of us have learned the
hard
> way to treat our animals ourselves. If for no other reason than cost,
being
> given the answer "transport to vet immediately!" is rather worthless to
us.
> With over 100 rabbits most of us work on prevention rather than cure. And
if
> we can't fix it, it is more economical to humanely put the animal down. I
> hope this won't cause too many conflicts. Elizabeth
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> DON'T HATE YOUR RATE!
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>
> Community email addresses:
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>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/RabbitVet
>
>

Hi Mike!
You are aware that some of us experienced breeders don't have a lot of
respect for vets. Most of us have horror stories we could tell about what
happens when sick rabbits and vets that don't know anything about rabbits but
won't admit mix.
I personally will try not to run anyone down on this list. But I have to warn
you that when it comes to rabbit breeding, most of us have learned the hard
way to treat our animals ourselves. If for no other reason than cost, being
given the answer "transport to vet immediately!" is rather worthless to us.
With over 100 rabbits most of us work on prevention rather than cure. And if
we can't fix it, it is more economical to humanely put the animal down. I
hope this won't cause too many conflicts. Elizabeth

Hello and Welcome!

RabbitVet and 1Wabbit groups have now been combined.

As a result, there are now 51 RabbitVet members.

The purpose of RabbitVet is to provide help to anyone who has Rabbit
health and veterinary issues, particularly novices.

I'd like to thank the experienced breeders who have joined this list
to help others with these problems and I would ask that postings be
restricted to health and veterinary issues so that these people are
not overwhelmed with emails.

Please feel free to promote this resource on the net - I set up this
list after experiencing rabbit problems myself. To promote this list,
simply link to: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/RabbitVet

Thankyou for joining this list!

Regards,
Mike

Please let me know as soon as you find out what to treat them with.  My
children came down with pin worms 3 days after bringing home the rabbits, and
I wondered if there was a connection.  I hope there is a way to treat them,
or else they may not be a very welcome part of our family.

Hello, and thanks for the welcome letter.  Actually, I do have a health
problem with our breeding colony of rabbits in our school project.  We've
done fecals and it appears that they have pinworms.  I am trying to find 3
alternatives to treating the rabbits once the pregnant does have their
babies.  Any suggestions?

Thanks!

Melissa

P.S.  They are very small--Netherland Dwarf.  I'm not sure if that influences
what treatments can be used.

Rabbitweb is warning of a new computer virus called Easter Rabbit
Virus.  Do not open anything with this name.

Hi,

I'd like to welcome any new RabbitVet members.

If you have a rabbit health problem youd like to discuss, tell us
about it by replying to this email.

Regards,
Mike

I have had the same problems with some of my bunnies, and if caught quickly,
the vet usually prescribes amox drops and everything clears up fine.  Vet
informed me that if left untreated it could turn into pneumonia.  This is
just my experience, but I thought I would let you know........Joy

--- In RabbitVet@onelist.com, astepher@a... wrote:
> Please contact your vet, if not in person, at least by phone.  If
it is a
> bacterial infection, it is quite possible that the infection was
not present
> when your vet saw him last.  Please hesitate to give any herbal or
> homeopathic remedies to your little guy without consulting your
veterinarian.
>  This is especially true if what you are witnessing is an allergic
reaction.
> As with humans and even more-so with small animals, it is not wise
to let an
> infection get away on you.  Best of luck to you, I'm sure the
little guy will
> be fine with proper care.  May I ask where the rabbit came from?
> ----Stephanie

Stephanie,

I got Oliver from the humane society.
Thanks (everyone) for all your advice.

Lisa

Please contact your vet, if not in person, at least by phone.  If it is a
bacterial infection, it is quite possible that the infection was not present
when your vet saw him last.  Please hesitate to give any herbal or
homeopathic remedies to your little guy without consulting your veterinarian.
  This is especially true if what you are witnessing is an allergic reaction.
As with humans and even more-so with small animals, it is not wise to let an
infection get away on you.  Best of luck to you, I'm sure the little guy will
be fine with proper care.  May I ask where the rabbit came from?
----Stephanie

--- In RabbitVet@onelist.com, Lisa Geisler <lgeisler@l...> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently got my first bunny and today i am a little worried about
him.
> His fur underneath his nose was a little yellow this morning. I
read on
> the House rabbit society web page that this could be a sign of a
bacterial
> infection. I just took him to the vet about a week ago for a check
up and
> everything was fine. I was wondering if i am overreacting in
thinking
> about taking him to the vet. He also had a pretty stressful day
yesterday
> because he knocked his water bottle off the side of his cage and was
> pretty freaked out when i got home. Could his nose be due to stress?
>
> Thanks,
> Lisa


Dear Lisa
Probably is due to stress.  Many show rabbits get runny noses and
eyes at the show or after travelling.  Another possible reason is a
slight draught getting to the rabbit if you have him outside.  Look
for some gaps or alter the angle of the cage and see if the problem
clears up by itself.  If your rabbit is especially prone to stress,
then there are some herbal remedies that are useful.  These are not
for constant use but help for those one-off situations.  Since I am
in NZ, I am not sure if you can get these but look in health shops or
alternative medicine outlets: -
bach flower rescue remedy - 1-2 drops on the rabbit's tongue OR
arnica (homeopathic) - 1-2 drops.
Herbs to help (as tonic) - lemon balm, raspberry-, strawberry- or
blackberry leaves, shepherd's purse, a LITTLE alfalfa hay.

Hi,

I recently got my first bunny and today i am a little worried about him.
His fur underneath his nose was a little yellow this morning. I read on
the House rabbit society web page that this could be a sign of a bacterial
infection. I just took him to the vet about a week ago for a check up and
everything was fine. I was wondering if i am overreacting in thinking
about taking him to the vet. He also had a pretty stressful day yesterday
because he knocked his water bottle off the side of his cage and was
pretty freaked out when i got home. Could his nose be due to stress?

Thanks,
Lisa

Hello everyone! Sorry for the 'mass' emailing but I figured this would be by
far much simplier than emailing each and everyone individually in my address
book!
As of today (Mar.14.00) we are trying out a new ISP. Our email address will be
blue-skies@... As many of you know we have been unhappy with the quality
of our current ISP for some time and recently found a provider that has a
local dial up # for the town of Sanford so we are trying them out. Hopefully
we will be staying with RCN as they seem like a good company! The old email
address of blueskie@... will still be in effect for several weeks while
we are trying to new service out but I do ask that you please send all
correspondence to us through RCN so we can get a feel for it! Thanks in
advance, if you do not receive another email from us stating that we are going
back to Points South (boy, I hope not!) then blue-skies@... will remain
the address for us permanently!
Sincerely,
Erick, Melody (Mel) & Tanner Goff


Melody
Blue Skies Rabbitry
blue-skies@...
blueskie@...
http://www.angelfire.com/me2/blueskiesrabbitry

Hi Everyone,

Today I visited a family I placed a blue holland lop buck with about 9
months ago so I could breed him to my sable doe.

He weighed only 1 Kg (2 pounds?) and although he did seem to have some meat
on him, I could feel his bones.

He seemed happy enough and was evidently eating OK  (pellets, hay and
vegetable scraps) but this is very small and I'm worried about him.

There was no sign of Diahorea.

I was going to advise that they give him some sort of de-worming medication.
What else should I advise them?

What does a "probiotic" do? and what is it exactly?
And what do fennel and blackberry leaves do?
Also, What's Nutri-Lift?

Could use your help!

Mike


> Message: 11
>    Date: Sun, 5 Mar 2000 09:23:32 -0000
>    From: "Kim" <kim@...>
> Subject: Failing to thrive buck
>
> Pleased to say that this-am the little buck is tucking in to fresh grass,
> bramble leaves, fennel & readigrass ... he's even showing a bit more
> interest in his environment ... coming over to be fussed :0)
>
> Not sure what the trigger for his turning the corner was?? ... many, many
> thanks to Bob for making a 2 hr round trip to Cambridge RC yesterday just
to
> bring me some Nutri-Lift which the buck took with relish last night ... I
> also gave him a gentle abdominal massage again ... just to make sure there
> was no gas build up or obstruction ... could feel nothing untoward ... and
> Ray I also gave him some fresh grass :0) ... and I put a bowl of water
> containing probiotic in his hutch despite him drinking well from his
bottle.
>
> Just have to wait and see if it continues now ...
>
> Kim (Tarax Stud)
> UK
> http://www.liesching.demon.co.uk/

Hi Melody, and Everyone,

Don't worry, this list is set to discard all attachments.

Therefore you should not have received the infected file.

Mike
RabbitVet Moderator

----- Original Message -----
From: Blue Skies <blueskie@...>
To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:;>
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2000 2:11 PM
Subject: [RabbitVet] A VIRUS!


> From: "Blue Skies" <blueskie@...>
>
> Hello everyone! I am sooo sorry that you all received a attachment called
> prettypark.exe from my computer earlier .. please DO NOT OPEN IT or any
other
> attachments from other people called this! I was un aware that this was a
> virus and although I have McAfee virus scan it slipped by as I received it
as
> an auto open attachment thru OE5. I immediately shut down my email and
removed
> the worm but I was not quick enough to stop the first mailing. I am truely
and
> utterly sorry! This was by NO means intentional!
> Melody
> Blue Skies Rabbitry
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MAXIMIZE YOUR CARD, MINIMIZE YOUR RATE!
> Get a NextCard Visa, in 30 seconds!  Get rates as low as
> 0.0% Intro or 9.9% Fixed APR and no hidden fees.
> Apply NOW!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2122/2/_/704846/_/952046175/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: RabbitVet@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    RabbitVet-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  RabbitVet-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   RabbitVet-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/RabbitVet
>
>

Hello everyone! I am sooo sorry that you all received a attachment called
prettypark.exe from my computer earlier .. please DO NOT OPEN IT or any other
attachments from other people called this! I was un aware that this was a
virus and although I have McAfee virus scan it slipped by as I received it as
an auto open attachment thru OE5. I immediately shut down my email and removed
the worm but I was not quick enough to stop the first mailing. I am truely and
utterly sorry! This was by NO means intentional!
Melody
Blue Skies Rabbitry

Test: Pretty Park.exe  :)

    Blue Skies


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Does anyone on this list NOT clip their rabbits nails?

Thank you for your message.  The carrier is a great idea.  I have a carrier
for him, but he never liked it.  In the summer, I'll put a harness on him and
take him to the park.  He sits on my lap in the car (on a towel because we
had an "accident" once!).  That's probably not the recommended procedure for
safety, but he seems to cling to me when we are outside the house....must be
the scent.  I will definately take the carrier and one of his play-towels (so
it smells like bunny) and let HIM decide when to explore.  It's a great idea,
because my big concern was how he would feel just being plopped into a new
environment.

Thank you.  I appreciate the advice.  What kind of bunny do you have?
Keep in touch---->stephanie

Hi,

I'm afraid our rabbits are only allowed in the house occasionally so I can't
really help,
but Welcome to RabbitVet List.

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: <astepher@...>
To: <RabbitVet@onelist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2000 12:06 PM
Subject: [RabbitVet] Rabbit Stress


> From: astepher@...
>
> Hello everyone.
>
> I will be moving next week to a new home and was wondering if anyone
> had some ideas to help reduce the stress on my little dwarf.  He is a
> house rabbit-trained to a litter box-and pretty much rules the roost
> right now.  I am planning to introduce him to our new home only AFTER
> we have moved all of our belongings and settled in.  I then plan to
> introduce him to one small room and take it slow.  I am afraid he
> will become scared or stressed from the sudden environment change and
> become sick or dispondent.  Has anyone successfully moved their house
> rabbit?  What should I expect.
>
> Thank you.
>
> PS- As I type this, of course, there is a little grey guy zooming
> around my feet!!!!  Gotta love 'em! :)
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Shop the web for great deals. Save on Computers,
> electronics, Home furnishings and more.
> http://click.egroups.com/1/1559/5/_/_/_/951260806/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Community email addresses:
>   Post message: RabbitVet@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    RabbitVet-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  RabbitVet-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   RabbitVet-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/RabbitVet
>
>

Hey, I know what might help! Get a small carrying case, put a towel inside
and alot of hay. Make sure the crate's door is big enough to hook a small
water bottle on. Stop every once and a while to offer him his litter box.
When I travel I usually attatch a harness to my rabbit. Then, I let him out
AWAY from the road in some grass to do his business. Rabbits will tend to
hold it because they don't want to go in their "burrows" (referring to
carrier) dirty. You should also buckle the carrier in tightly so it doesn't
slide around. Once you arrive, you should place the carrier on the floor with
the door opened. Don't force him out, let him come out when he's ready. I
don't think you should have too much trouble unless he's the skittish type.
But he sounds like he is pretty confident in himself and very strong willed.
In fact, what I usually do a few days before the big trip is buckle the
carrier into the car and take my rabbit for a short ride. Then I gradually
increase the time. But not much, the longest I do is go on a freeway and turn
around about 5 minutes later. That is to get him used to the sounds and
sensations of the car. Well, I hoped I helped! Good luck!

Hello everyone.

I will be moving next week to a new home and was wondering if anyone
had some ideas to help reduce the stress on my little dwarf.  He is a
house rabbit-trained to a litter box-and pretty much rules the roost
right now.  I am planning to introduce him to our new home only AFTER
we have moved all of our belongings and settled in.  I then plan to
introduce him to one small room and take it slow.  I am afraid he
will become scared or stressed from the sudden environment change and
become sick or dispondent.  Has anyone successfully moved their house
rabbit?  What should I expect.

Thank you.

PS- As I type this, of course, there is a little grey guy zooming
around my feet!!!!  Gotta love 'em! :)

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----- Original Message -----
   From: <Tweedydird@...>
   To: <1Wabbit@onelist.com>
   Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 6:30 PM
   Subject: [1Wabbit] Need advice


   > > From: Tweedydird@...
   > >
   > > I am a new member and I am not sure if you can help me.
   > >
   > > I have 2 rabbits who will be coming home from the fair missing teeth! I
   > have
   > > asked many "people who know about rabbits" and no one has ever seen or
   > heard
   > > of this before. I don't know what to do.
   > >
   > > My daughter has been raising American Fuzzy Lops for 4 years. She shows
   > them
   > > at local Fairs.  Tuesday we dropped off 4 perfectly healthy rabbits.
   > > (verified by the checking exam)  On Thursday am when we went to the
   > judging
   > > we found out that 2 of the rabits had teeth missing. She had checked all
   > of
   > > the rabbits imediatly prior to taking them to the Fair and all had no
   > > problems with their teeth.
   > > Both are bucs. One is missing both top front (broken off at the gum),
   and
   > the
   > > other is missing one top front tooth (broken jagged edge-near gum).  The
   > > rabbits are two cages apart.  Surrounded by other rabbits, each in it's
   > own
   > > cage.  No other rabbits are missing teeth. Both have been to the fair
   > before.
   > > No one was saposed to have handled or taken the rabbits out of their
   > cages.
   > > The cages are "locked" with hog rings.
   > > I asked one of the fair handlers about it and he said "It just happens
   > > sometimes."
   > >
   > > How can this happen? Is it a normal thing?
   > > Should I question the officials and handlers?
   > >
   > > If you have an info. please send it asap.
   > > Thanks,
   > > Debbie

   I have had rabbits break teeth off pulling on cage wire, actually saw it
happen once, at a show. The rabbit pulled on the wire and the teeth went flying.
Rabbit teeth grow fairly rapidly and they came back into normal position in no
time. I doubt that there would be any cause to interrogate the show personnel,
they may have no knowledge of it, could have happedned after the judging.


   Message: 2
      From: Laura Arnett
     To: mike@...
     Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 6:01 AM


     Hi Mike. I am Laura Arnett. My daughter and I raise and show Mini Rex and
Netherland Dwarf rabbits. I have a problem with the mini rex rubbing the fur off
their faces. The resulting bare skin does not have lesions, does not appear to
have a fungus or parasite problem. None of the dwarfs exhibited this until I
moved a mini rex doe to a cage between 2 dwarf does. One now within 2 days had
removed all fur from her face. I see no chewing from one animal to another. Do
you know what the cause and cure is?

   Unless you have solid partitions between holes I'll bet that the Mini Rex is
chewing the fur off their heads. Rabbits can shear the hair right to the skin
with those sharp front teeth. Rabbits will chew fur for a couple of reasons,
usually boredom or lack of adequate fiber in diet. Try give the offender a tuna
can to throw around it's cage and some extra grass hay or straw to munch on. If
that fails, move her. Solids partitions has helped relieve this problem in my
barn. Rabbits will often chew their own fur for the same reasons, it's amazing
where they can reach on their own bodies!

   Rick Stahl
   Bothell, Wa.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message -----
   From: Laura Arnett
   To: mike@...
   Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 6:01 AM


   Hi Mike. I am Laura Arnett. My daughter and I raise and show Mini Rex and
Netherland Dwarf rabbits. I have a problem with the mini rex rubbing the fur off
their faces. The resulting bare skin does not have lesions, does not appear to
have a fungus or parasite problem. None of the dwarfs exhibited this until I
moved a mini rex doe to a cage between 2 dwarf does. One now within 2 days had
removed all fur from her face. I see no chewing from one animal to another. Do
you know what the cause and cure is?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thats wierd, I've never heard of that happening before!

  Maybe they broke them chewing the wire?
Quite a coincidence anything like that happenning to two rabbits at once.

Rabbits teeth grow continuously, so if they broke off they should grow back.
But you'll have to watch them to make sure they grow back straight.
You might have to clip their teeth to correct them if they go crooked.

Are they managing to eat OK?



----- Original Message -----
From: <Tweedydird@...>
To: <1Wabbit@onelist.com>
Sent: Friday, February 18, 2000 6:30 PM
Subject: [1Wabbit] Need advice


> > From: Tweedydird@...
> >
> > I am a new member and I am not sure if you can help me.
> >
> > I have 2 rabbits who will be coming home from the fair missing teeth! I
> have
> > asked many "people who know about rabbits" and no one has ever seen or
> heard
> > of this before. I don't know what to do.
> >
> > My daughter has been raising American Fuzzy Lops for 4 years. She shows
> them
> > at local Fairs.  Tuesday we dropped off 4 perfectly healthy rabbits.
> > (verified by the checking exam)  On Thursday am when we went to the
> judging
> > we found out that 2 of the rabits had teeth missing. She had checked all
> of
> > the rabbits imediatly prior to taking them to the Fair and all had no
> > problems with their teeth.
> > Both are bucs. One is missing both top front (broken off at the gum),
and
> the
> > other is missing one top front tooth (broken jagged edge-near gum).  The
> > rabbits are two cages apart.  Surrounded by other rabbits, each in it's
> own
> > cage.  No other rabbits are missing teeth. Both have been to the fair
> before.
> > No one was saposed to have handled or taken the rabbits out of their
> cages.
> > The cages are "locked" with hog rings.
> > I asked one of the fair handlers about it and he said "It just happens
> > sometimes."
> >
> > How can this happen? Is it a normal thing?
> > Should I question the officials and handlers?
> >
> > If you have an info. please send it asap.
> > Thanks,
> > Debbie
> >
> >
> > --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ----------------------------
> >
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Hi,

Check out this link if you havent already

http://dmoz.org/Recreation/Pets/Rabbits/Health/

Mike