Its easy for English speaking people to answer to every post you get. I am
what I think a lurker ( is that someone who reads the post but don't
response?) . But I learn a lot of the list I am on. But answering takes a
lot of time, I can understand English but writing is something different and
explaining some technical or breading method is sometimes very difficult in
a other language.
Met groetjes
Gerd

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Barbie Heid [mailto:bheid@...]
Verzonden: maandag 4 juni 2001 8:29
Aan: TheNaturalisticVivarium@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: Re: [TheNaturalisticVivarium] Re: Howdy, Lurkers and stuff!





> It's nice to be able to see who's "lurking" on the list.:-) Don and Ken
bring a
> lot to the discussion table. I'm just curious who else might be hanging
around.

Hello, peoples! I just got on tonight :) I'll have to wait a few days, and
try to catch up on the threads I missed.

Barbie >^,,^<
bheid@...






To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
TheNaturalisticVivarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

> It's nice to be able to see who's "lurking" on the list.:-) Don and Ken
bring a
> lot to the discussion table. I'm just curious who else might be hanging
around.

Hello, peoples! I just got on tonight :) I'll have to wait a few days, and
try to catch up on the threads I missed.

Barbie >^,,^<
bheid@...

Hi David,

I'm very excited about how the new group is going as well! I removed
the members option as I thought it listed everyone's full email
addresses- and I didn't want all those addresses accessible if
members didn't want to have that available- What I just realized is
that every one does not see that- just the moderators & owners. I
will add it back in. Thanks

Joseph

--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., "David Pickering"
<bosschicken@m...> wrote:
> Hi Ken,
> I love your vivariums on your website, and I have used your waxworm
culturing
> method with success. I could not agree more about the lively yet
civil
> discussion. It looks like it is shaping up to be a really great
list.
>
> BTW, is there a reason why the members are not listed on the
homepage?
>
> ******************************************
> Chamowners chameleon information and photo website
> http://nav.to/chamowner1
> Chamowners vivarium website
> http://chamowners.virtualave.net/
> Chamowners list
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Chamowners/join
> David W. Pickering
> ******************************************
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Uy [mailto:kenuy@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 10:13 PM
> To: TheNaturalisticVivarium@y...
> Subject: Re: [TheNaturalisticVivarium] Howdy, Lurkers and stuff!
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Long time no write! How are you?
>
> I guess I might as well de-lurk too. My name is Ken Uy, I live in
the
> San Fernando Valley in Southern California.  I've always been
interested
> in terrariums and vivariums ever since I was a tadpole, but my first
> hobby was tropical fish. I guess keeping little ecosystems in glass
> boxes just appeals to me!
>
> I used to breed chameleons (kept them outdoors here in So Cal) but
now I
> just have dart frogs, mantellas, and various mantids, as well as my
> little reef tank.
>
> There's some info about my tanks at
> http://home.earthlink.net/~kenuy/kenspage.htm
>
> I hope the discussions stay lively yet civil here, and maybe we can
all
> meet face to face one day!
>
> Ken (kenuy@e...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Check out great fares at Orbitz!
>
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>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Kewl. Let me know how it goes- so far the only problem is that I have
to enlarge the holes along the back tube..

--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., alsofaac@a... wrote:
> Thanks for the info, Joseph.  I'll definitely give it a try.
>
> Arnold

Thanks for the info, Joseph.  I'll definitely give it a try.

Arnold

Hi Don,

Long time no write! How are you?

I guess I might as well de-lurk too. My name is Ken Uy, I live in the
San Fernando Valley in Southern California.  I've always been interested
in terrariums and vivariums ever since I was a tadpole, but my first
hobby was tropical fish. I guess keeping little ecosystems in glass
boxes just appeals to me!

I used to breed chameleons (kept them outdoors here in So Cal) but now I
just have dart frogs, mantellas, and various mantids, as well as my
little reef tank.

There's some info about my tanks at
http://home.earthlink.net/~kenuy/kenspage.htm

I hope the discussions stay lively yet civil here, and maybe we can all
meet face to face one day!

Ken (kenuy@...)

Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
TheNaturalisticVivarium group:

Hi Everyone,
I thought since we are a new group, and
we have grown quite rapidly, it would
be nice to get to know what our fellow
members keep in thier vivariums. So
that's the topic of my Poll. Choose all
creatures that apply. Thanks

   o Poison Dart Frogs
   o Other frogs
   o Toads
   o Anoles
   o Gecko's
   o Chameleons
   o Other lizards
   o Snakes
   o Newts
   o Salamanders
   o Other amphibians
   o Insects (not for food...)
   o Arachnids
   o Tortoise
   o Turtles
   o Other


To vote, please visit the following web page:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheNaturalisticVivarium/polls

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Oh lord...

If we've attracted Don Wells... then we're already going downhill!

How's it going Don???

I'm kidding in case anyone hadn't figure it out...

I moved my frogs/tanks yesterday and today and we're moving the humans next
weekend!

Hope you're doing well...

Scott MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
>
>Hi Listers,
>
>Thanks for inviting me here. I dont know what happened on the "other'
>list and am not familiar with that list whatsoever but knowing how
>frustrating it can be to a listowner to keep accepting people into a
>list and then nobody participates can really get old fast! I own a
>list for advanced Chameleon keepers and have excluded applicants for
>various reasons from the list. I am constantly pissed off because I
>have so many really good people on the list and they just dont
>participate!
>
>I notice  there isnt a membership link on this list and yet there are
>now 42 members. Who is all here anyway? I would sure like to know who
>you all are! I guess I should start off by telling about myself and
>then I am not the odd man out so to speak.
>
>I live in Southern California and have been involved with
>naturalistic vivaria since I was a kid which has been sometime now!:-
>) Although I currently do not posess even one tank full of little
>slimeys, I still cant wait to get back into it in the near future.I
>have been an importer as well as breeder of many different species
>over the years and have a special interest in the Hyperolid frogs as
>well as Phelsumas/ other geckos and Dendrobatid frogs as well as
>anything else thats cryptic in nature.I am particularly interested in
>seeing more and more people involved in captive production of animals
>vs. wild caughts.
>
>I make my living in the animal business and maintain a large farm
>that breeds Parrot type birds as well as I am a partial owner in an
>overseas breeding farm in Asia where we are setting up many species
>of frogs and other herps for the trade.I hope this list will address
>and encourage more captive bred animals and steer newbies away from
>wild caught animals if at all possible.I am the farthest thing from a
>treehugger bunnykissing environmentalist whacko but I also realize
>the sensible thing is to see animals adapted for captive conditions
>which are bred for that purpose as this only will encourage people to
>get into the hobby more, not discourage them, as so many have been as
>a result of buying wild caughts in the begining. I hope this list
>will maintain that stance?
>
>Don Wells
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>TheNaturalisticVivarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Hi Don,


I share your sentiment on captive production of animals vs. wild
caughts. The captive animals devolped over time, are better suited to
live in our enclosres vs the wild caughts, and therfore are ussualy
healthier than thier sometimes parasite infected wild-caught
brothers. And there are NUMEROUS more reasons for them to be
preffered.. Any one want ot add any further reasons?  For anyone
listening.. that is really the way to go- you will be much happier
with a captive bred animal!


Joseph

--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., dwells2530@a... wrote:
> Hi Listers,
>
> Thanks for inviting me here. I dont know what happened on
the "other'
> list and am not familiar with that list whatsoever but knowing how
> frustrating it can be to a listowner to keep accepting people into
a
> list and then nobody participates can really get old fast! I own a
> list for advanced Chameleon keepers and have excluded applicants
for
> various reasons from the list. I am constantly pissed off because I
> have so many really good people on the list and they just dont
> participate!
>
> I notice  there isnt a membership link on this list and yet there
are
> now 42 members. Who is all here anyway? I would sure like to know
who
> you all are! I guess I should start off by telling about myself and
> then I am not the odd man out so to speak.
>
> I live in Southern California and have been involved with
> naturalistic vivaria since I was a kid which has been sometime
now!:-
> ) Although I currently do not posess even one tank full of little
> slimeys, I still cant wait to get back into it in the near future.I
> have been an importer as well as breeder of many different species
> over the years and have a special interest in the Hyperolid frogs
as
> well as Phelsumas/ other geckos and Dendrobatid frogs as well as
> anything else thats cryptic in nature.I am particularly interested
in
> seeing more and more people involved in captive production of
animals
> vs. wild caughts.
>
> I make my living in the animal business and maintain a large farm
> that breeds Parrot type birds as well as I am a partial owner in an
> overseas breeding farm in Asia where we are setting up many species
> of frogs and other herps for the trade.I hope this list will
address
> and encourage more captive bred animals and steer newbies away from
> wild caught animals if at all possible.I am the farthest thing from
a
> treehugger bunnykissing environmentalist whacko but I also realize
> the sensible thing is to see animals adapted for captive conditions
> which are bred for that purpose as this only will encourage people
to
> get into the hobby more, not discourage them, as so many have been
as
> a result of buying wild caughts in the begining. I hope this list
> will maintain that stance?
>
> Don Wells

Hi Everyone,

The purpose of this list is as stated in the descrition page for the
group:it is separate from the other group for waht David P indicated:
A fundament change of policy on how a list should be run. Of course,
indivuals are free to join or leave other lists, as they see fit. I
would like this forum to be open to all who are interested in the
hooby- weather to listen or to participte. :)

Thanks for the lively discussion guys.

Joseph
Moderator

--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., "David Pickering"
<bosschicken@m...> wrote:
> If that is the purpose of this list COUNT ME OUT.
> My belief was that this list was going to be for vivarium
enhancement NOT
> personal campaigns against someone with whom there has been a
disagreement. As I
> said, I have seen lists thrive from splits that were based on
fundamental
> differences in policy. Many people are on both lists and the
atmosphere is
> basically "live and let live". I see no reason to leave the other
list, but if
> it is the mission of this list to ruin the other, and if the topics
do not soon
> change from "policy" and grumbling about hurt feelings to vivariums
then based
> on that principle I have to support the other list.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> --------------------
> David W. Pickering
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
------------
> --------------------
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott MacDonald [mailto:scottfrog@h...]
> Sent: Sunday, June 03, 2001 6:22 PM
> To: TheNaturalisticVivarium@y...
> Subject: Re: [TheNaturalisticVivarium] Digest Number 0
>
> Dave,
>
> Pardon the english... but f*$k 'em.
>
> I had kind of had it with the attitude... and then
> they ticked me off completely.
>
> As said by someone right after you... Nazi Admin(s).
>
> The heck with them... let's run with this forum.
>
> If they haven't unsubscribed you... make sure to do
> it yourself as I want there numbers going doooowwwn.
>
> Scott MacDonald
> Sanford, Maine
>
> >Hi guys,
> >
> >I hope I'm welcome here.
> >
> >I'm feeling a little gun shy after what happened in the other
group.
> >
> >I was more then willing to let things drop and I'm not really
interested in
> >rehashing what happened, but do you guys think I was right /
wrong, or did
> >I
> >just come off wrong? How could I have handled it better?
> >
> >If you don't want to go here, I understand and am OK with it.
> >
> >I really did not want to be at the center of that or have it come
down like
> >it
> >did.
> >
> >Dave Calkins
> >
> >
> >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >TheNaturalisticVivarium-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>
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>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .

Hi Listers,

Thanks for inviting me here. I dont know what happened on the "other'
list and am not familiar with that list whatsoever but knowing how
frustrating it can be to a listowner to keep accepting people into a
list and then nobody participates can really get old fast! I own a
list for advanced Chameleon keepers and have excluded applicants for
various reasons from the list. I am constantly pissed off because I
have so many really good people on the list and they just dont
participate!

I notice  there isnt a membership link on this list and yet there are
now 42 members. Who is all here anyway? I would sure like to know who
you all are! I guess I should start off by telling about myself and
then I am not the odd man out so to speak.

I live in Southern California and have been involved with
naturalistic vivaria since I was a kid which has been sometime now!:-
) Although I currently do not posess even one tank full of little
slimeys, I still cant wait to get back into it in the near future.I
have been an importer as well as breeder of many different species
over the years and have a special interest in the Hyperolid frogs as
well as Phelsumas/ other geckos and Dendrobatid frogs as well as
anything else thats cryptic in nature.I am particularly interested in
seeing more and more people involved in captive production of animals
vs. wild caughts.

I make my living in the animal business and maintain a large farm
that breeds Parrot type birds as well as I am a partial owner in an
overseas breeding farm in Asia where we are setting up many species
of frogs and other herps for the trade.I hope this list will address
and encourage more captive bred animals and steer newbies away from
wild caught animals if at all possible.I am the farthest thing from a
treehugger bunnykissing environmentalist whacko but I also realize
the sensible thing is to see animals adapted for captive conditions
which are bred for that purpose as this only will encourage people to
get into the hobby more, not discourage them, as so many have been as
a result of buying wild caughts in the begining. I hope this list
will maintain that stance?

Don Wells

Dave,

Pardon the english... but f*$k 'em.

I had kind of had it with the attitude... and then
they ticked me off completely.

As said by someone right after you... Nazi Admin(s).

The heck with them... let's run with this forum.

If they haven't unsubscribed you... make sure to do
it yourself as I want there numbers going doooowwwn.

Scott MacDonald
Sanford, Maine

>Hi guys,
>
>I hope I'm welcome here.
>
>I'm feeling a little gun shy after what happened in the other group.
>
>I was more then willing to let things drop and I'm not really interested in
>rehashing what happened, but do you guys think I was right / wrong, or did
>I
>just come off wrong? How could I have handled it better?
>
>If you don't want to go here, I understand and am OK with it.
>
>I really did not want to be at the center of that or have it come down like
>it
>did.
>
>Dave Calkins
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>TheNaturalisticVivarium-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Hi guys,

I hope I'm welcome here.

I'm feeling a little gun shy after what happened in the other group.

I was more then willing to let things drop and I'm not really interested in
rehashing what happened, but do you guys think I was right / wrong, or did I
just come off wrong? How could I have handled it better?

If you don't want to go here, I understand and am OK with it.

I really did not want to be at the center of that or have it come down like it
did.

Dave Calkins

Hi All,

I've added some more resources under the bookmark sections: Plant &
Vivarium / Terrarium Suppliers. Check them out. I also added George
Cramers Vivarium website in the vivarium bookmark sections. Enjoy!

P.S. feel free to add to these bookmarks and create your own for the
use of the list! Thanks

Joseph

Hi Michael,

I took a look at your website- very nice! I thought I had been to
almost all the PDF sites, but somehow never ran into yours! I look
forward to reviewing it in depth later today. Goes to show you-
theres always something new to learn out there.

Thanks for uploading the site to the book marks section, and Welcome
to the group!

Joseph


--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., frogfreak@a... wrote:
> hello my name is michael taylor glad to see this group go up not to
> down anyone for their methods but i am usually a lurker as they say
> but i do read the posts and learn from most of them and i do post
> when i am fully capable of posting the correct info or have a
> question but i dont want to be kicked or looked down on because i
> havent posted in some time so glad to meet you all and hope to talk
> with you soon,here is a link to my site and the is a vivarium page
> with pics of some of my tanks there
>
> http://dendrobatid.homestead.com/index.html
>
> thanks
> michael taylor

Hi Arnold,

Welcome to the group!

The water fall is simply some water cascading over some drift wood.
I use a micro pump (located behing the driftwood sitting in the water)
to pump water through some tubing (sliconed up the right hand corener
of the vivarium) which is covered by the natural fibers on the back
wall I mentioned, so it is not visible. The tubing is then run along
the top back wall of the tank- again siliconed in place. I poked some
holes about every inch to let water drip onto the fibers. The tubing
then curves out of the tank into the canopy. The water that makes it
past the dripping system is deposited in the canopy above the
enclosure. The canopy (an Eclipse system) houses a carbon filter
area, and then leaves the canopy above the driftwood- thus returning
the water back to the enclosure by cascading it onto the driftwood
already mentioned. Voi la -instant back wall driping, waterfall,
carbon filtering, and mechanical filteration- all in one!

--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., alsofaac@a... wrote:
> Hi, Joseph!
>
> As a member of FrogNet and Anuran (and Corallus and Arboreals), I'm
certainly
> interested in participating in this list.  I have a question for
you
> regarding your setup:  How did you get some of the water from your
waterfall
> (is your waterfall homemade?) diverted so that it flows down across
the back
> wall fibrous material?  Thanks.
>
> Arnold Stark

Hello fellow subscribers,

I run several excellent groups that discuss various general &
specific aspects of snakes & snake keeping that you may be interested
in:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/boas-pythons/ This is a general
discussion forum for all aspects of keeping various boas & pythons.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/carpet_pythons/ This group focusses
mainly on Australia'a carpet pythons.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Colubrids/ This group is similar to
boas-pythons, a general discussion forum for all aspects of keeping
the many various forms of colubrid snakes.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cornsnake/ This group is a friendly
discussion forum for all aspects of keeping & breeding the many
various morphs of cornsnakes.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Herpaholics/ This is a small support
group for those of us who somehow just can't get enough snakes.

Please see the group descriptions & the welcome post for details, I
hope that one or more of them appeal to you.

Regards,
Mark

hello my name is michael taylor glad to see this group go up not to
down anyone for their methods but i am usually a lurker as they say
but i do read the posts and learn from most of them and i do post
when i am fully capable of posting the correct info or have a
question but i dont want to be kicked or looked down on because i
havent posted in some time so glad to meet you all and hope to talk
with you soon,here is a link to my site and the is a vivarium page
with pics of some of my tanks there

http://dendrobatid.homestead.com/index.html

thanks
michael taylor

Hi, Joseph!

As a member of FrogNet and Anuran (and Corallus and Arboreals), I'm certainly
interested in participating in this list.  I have a question for you
regarding your setup:  How did you get some of the water from your waterfall
(is your waterfall homemade?) diverted so that it flows down across the back
wall fibrous material?  Thanks.

Arnold Stark

Hi All,

I've just uploaded a few of my favorite Vivarium Websites to the
bookmark sections. It's a great idea to see the state of the art, and
to get new idea's for set ups. Vivaria projects is what inspired me!
Feel free to add you favorite sites as well, and create new folders..
maybe plant and terrarium design shops, substrate mix folders, etc..
Lets try and make this a great resource where we can come to one
place to find many of our needs. Thanks and I'd love to hear some
feedback on the sites.

Joseph

Hi David,

HAHAHAHA. Yes- I thought I would keep the intro to the list at
another "level"- but mention the lurker issue in my first post.
LUKERS are WELCOME!

Thanks for Joining Daivd, and Welcome-

--- In TheNaturalisticVivarium@y..., "David Pickering"
<bosschicken@m...> wrote:
> Your intro should mention LURKERS WELCOME:)

Your intro should mention LURKERS WELCOME:)

Welcome Everyone,

I created this list with the hope that the free and unhindered flow
of information would be a better forum than the current Vivarium
list. There are many good people on that list, and I have learned
many great things! However, recent events by the moderator and the
owner attacking "lurkers" and existing members have caused several
members to leave, and created a poor environment for the free flow of
information for both the newbie (perhaps lurking and trying to
learn), as well as those experienced vivarists who felt these tactics
and heavy-handedness was uncalled for. In any case- all discussions
regarding our Hobby, and the direction of this group are welcome here.

Anyway, a little about me:
I'm 33yrs old, live in CA, and work in San Francisco as an
Operations/Project Manager for a telecommunications Co. I have had a
love affair with the world's small creatures and the natural world
since I was a very small boy :)

A little about my vivarium:
I just set up my first tropical Rainforest Vivarium!  (I've posted
the following on the old list but here it is again): It's not
complete yet, but well on it's way. Dimensions are: 12" D, 30" W, 24"
H, I think it was 39 or 45 gallons. The vivarium is in the tradition
of Vivaria projects type set ups, with fractured fluorite as the
water portion substrate, and peat moss as the land base which sits in
a pool of water (land 75% water 25%). The back of the vivarium is
covered with a sheet of natural fibers from Black Jungle (don't
remember what it was called). There is a waterfall on the right hand
side, cascading over some driftwood. The same pump used for the
waterfall also moves the water over the back wall, dripping water
over the natural fiber sheet- keeping it moist. The water that makes
it past the dripping system is deposited in the canopy above the
enclosure. The canopy (an Eclipse system) houses a carbon filter
area, and then returns the water back to the enclosure by cascading
it onto the driftwood already mentioned. Lighting is also housed in
the canopy with 2- 18 watt florescents. (I had many of the plants
under this for 4 weeks prior to construction and they seemed to do
well) Although, I may upgrade to a 55watt PC if needed. There are a
few bromeliads and plants from Black Jungle, as well as this
incredible treestump centerpiece. Bari has just shipped me some moss-
and I can't wait to see it and plant it! A friend just shot some
digital pictures of the tank, so I'll try to post it in the files
section soon. As the tank matures, I'll try to add more photos too. I
still need to install the ventilation, misting system and or
ultrasonic fogger.

I fell in love with the D (Bastimentos) pumilo during frog day one
year ago, so I'm considering them as inhabitants when the tank is
aged and cycled. Of course, this year I realized how beautiful some
of the Tincts were- especially the ones with yellow "visors" on their
heads. Specific thanks to Bari for the moss she is shipping to me,
and to Tropical Jungle who had great vivarium supplies and plants at
Frogday in San Jose, as well as George Cramer for all the questions
he answered via private email!

It' be great to start of the list with descriptions of new members
tanks so we could all get an idea of what sort's of set ups we all
have. Anyway- just a suggestion. Let the Posts begin!

Again, welcome Everyone!

Joseph