Mick,

This is a mitt full to respond to >

First,, I can not speak for Oskar, other than over his long term in the fancy, and given that man is very wise in his thinking along with that never ending take on things can always be better. He was after birds with traits that could be utilized in his loft that would help give him what he needed to dark fly. For those reasons he did introduce some outcrosses and he would fly and test them to their full potential, as young and then as old birds if you will. If they didn't work out he would eliminate all if them. Don't get me wrong, he was still the top flyer long before I met him, but dark flying over here meant birds that flew lower and had more control, so he experimented with some until he settled on something he thought would work with his family.

As for me, I started with different birds from a few different sources and worked with them until I found what was worth while . I also was gifted with some from Oskar, and Danny Boy in my early years, and up until last year have not needed a outcross for any reason other than to fly them and now to have some fun with some ideas in terms of breeding. But as I said, it can take a very long time to get where one wants when doing this, and you must understand that I really do not believe I have a "Strain" yet, but rather I am working in that direction with my stock. They are becoming more "Pure' as a loft, but are not there yet LOL !

The cock I used was down from my foundation cock, and was a stock bird. He is black and I kept him on the basis of his linage and I liked his "Type" if you will. He has produced hens I have flown to record times out of two different hens, so with that I jumped in.

For your fourth paragraph, I do not understand so please collaborate a bit more on this one.

Fifth,,,,, My thoughts on this are as follows, and that is I think your thinking is what is driving you to the question. What you must realize is when following a inbreeding/in-breeding program is that the whole idea is to get the loft to a higher excellence with every passing generation ! There is no bell cure, just a straight line to even more excellence, as your birds can never be to "Pure" for their traits and characteristics. So stop and rethink what you are saying here.

It is my belief that when the term Pre-Potent is used for either a sire or a hen, it is representing a bird that is the exception to the group in terms that it is so pure for so many gene pairs in the areas one wants, and that it has proven that fact through progeny testing  from at least 10 different partners is what I strive for.

Next,,,,, Aks method is not really a sound one, but in all fairness to that statement, I think we all do that to a certain extent. Its just that we like to many dam birds LOL !!!

 Look, if you have a family of birds that have been following a program of close relationship, and if you have along the way proven some of those birds, and if you have selected correctly ( a lot of ifs ) then yes your chances of stocking birds that are not proven are for sure more consistent, as they are more Pure genetically than the average of their breed for those wanted traits. But you must remember that even two brother or sisters can prove to be totally opposite in their ability to perform or as a breeder. This is due largely to the fact that one may be more Hetrogzous ( impure ) than Pure , or Homo !

If I understand your question correctly, when it comes to BOP I never really shy away from flying anything I like. If I raise a bird like that opal white bar, ( far a few between ) I could keep it in on color alone. Then I would use it without really knowing how it performed, and that would be a mistake. I did just that in 07, Luka just about shit himself when I told him I was settling him, he loves that bird and wanted me to keep him in, but what the hell I told him. He fly's or he dies was my answer to Luka LOL !! No, if your loft has been on the right track for some years then I see no reason to worry about any gene loss when it comes to any one bird. Unless you have such exceptional sire that it really would be detrimental to your loft with its loss.

In my scenario, I flew my best time of just over 16hrs to beat OMB from New York, that was in 2000, I have bettered that time 4 times and last year called 16hrs 46m, and then went on to get DQEd for over the hour. I got one Indigo on the loft at 17hrs and that opal and red mottle were still flying but would not drop at 17hrs 46 when I got the hammer down on me. Even then we could still see them in the dark passing by.. But as they were not dark trained they would not respond. So I guess the times have gone up, whether it be breeding or better handling I am not sure. When it come to other guys, they have been improving their times in the dark, just bit unlucky is like Oskar has flown them over 19hrs but always something goes wrong at the end like not being able to drop them dam birds, they are just to strong. Luka has been at the 17hr mark a few times but luck has not been on his side, harpreet has flown the birds well over 17hrs and he also has been unlucky. The stock over here, in the right hands are every bit as good as anywhere, just the conditions are different is all, and maybe the dedication is lacking with a lot of guys over here as well.

So in answer to your question YES the times are still going up, and if we had the same conditions as our friends over the pond, believe me we would be knocking at their door LOL !!

Boy, I need a rest !

All the Best!
Neen
C.N.T.U