CH Bellhaven Black Lucason was a highly regarded dog of his time, quite
handsome from pictures, and with champion offspring; yet he doesn't seem to
show up behind any of the modern lines.

Can anyone enlighten me as to reasons for this?

Thanks in advance--

Sharon at Caerleon

>
>
>  Hope this helps!   JOHN B - TARTANSIDE
>


Yes, it does--thank you very much!


Sharon at Caerleon

Silv
er Ho Parader
                                                     Paraders Future Sensation
                                                                            Bon
nie View Judy
                               Bellbrookes Master Pilot
                                                                             Ch
. Paraders Golden Image
                                                     Paraders Bold Duchess
                                                                              P
araders Cinderella
    RAVETTES WAYSIDE TRAVELER


Bellbrookes Master Pilot
                                                     Ch/ GinGeor Bellbrookes
Choice

Gayheart Golden Miss
                              Wayside Fancy Flirt

Ch. Crescent Bright Venture
                                                      August Temptress at
Wayside

Delongs Honeycomb

   Hope this helps!   JOHN B - TARTANSIDE

Pedigree on Ravette's Wayside Traveler....
     Bred by George & Rosemarie Soellner and owned by Joyce Avery, "Jake" was
sired by Bellbrookes Master Pilot (the sire of another top producer Ch.
GinGeor Bellbrookes Choice).  His dam was Wayside Fancy Flirt.  She was sired
by Ch. GinGeor Bellbrookes Choice and out of August Temptress at Wayside.
August Temptress at Wayside was sired by Ch. Crescent Bright Venture out of
Delongs Honeycomb.

Those are most likely the dates the dogs were entered in the stud books
of the A.K.C.

Dianne Sever
Ravette-Jodevin Collies..."A tradition with a family plan"

From: Caroline Baines <shoshannahcollie@...>:

According to my records Eileen is Enhanted's Dam.  I have no idea what
the date signifies.  Maybe that's when she finished her CD??????????
Anyone else have any idea?

>    Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1998 19:00:22 -0400
>    From: Dean Mair <mair@...>
> Subject: Double Yorks & Tri-J
>
> Does anyone have info on York of Pebble Ledge and if there were two?
> I show a York of Pebble Ledge of CH Christopher of Pebble Ledge
>    X  Little Dorrit being the dam of Shamrock Smooth Stream
> and a York of Pebble Ledge being sire of Cul Mor Quine Wendi out of
>   Cul Mor Babette of Ebonwood.

I have York of Pebble Ledge as the SIRE of Shamrock Smooth Sentinal,
CD and Shamrock Smooth Stream

Their Dam was Shamrock Arsenal O'Blue Flame


> I also have TRI-J THE ENCHANTED whelping on 07-05-1981 out of
>    EILEEN TALLY-HO, CD  who is listed as whelping in 12/1981

According to my records Eileen is Enhanted's Dam.  I have no idea what
the date signifies.  Maybe that's when she finished her CD??????????
Anyone else have any idea?

==
~ Caroline
Shoshannah Collies

ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
    for list mail
baines@... for attachments & personal mail

Hi Sharon,

I'm sure I have that at home.  I'll dig around in the Ravette "treasure
chest" tonight if I get a chance.  If I can't find it, I've been meaning
to give Joyce a call anyway, and will ask her to rattle it off for me.
Wasn't he lovely?  I just love that dog....well the photos anyway, he was
before my time, but I do see him the faces of my "kids" every day.

Take care,
Dianne
Ravette-Jodevin Collies..."A tradition with a family plan"

From: Sharon Baubles/Caerleon Collies <caerleon@...>:

Hi Dianne--

Do you by chance have 3 generations for Ravette's Wayside Traveler? I
only
have the tail-male back to CH Silver Ho Parader--none of those dams, and
nothing on his dam's side at all.

Thanks!

Sharon at Caerleon
caerleon@...

Hi Dianne--

Do you by chance have 3 generations for Ravette's Wayside Traveler? I only
have the tail-male back to CH Silver Ho Parader--none of those dams, and
nothing on his dam's side at all.

Thanks!

Sharon at Caerleon
caerleon@...

>From: "SEVER, DIANNE" <dsever@...>
>
>Here's a bit more:
>
>CH Glen Hill Full Dress was by Ch. Glen Hill Emperor Jones X Debhill
>Dainty Doll
>
>CH Ravette's Pinto Di Blue was by CH. Wesbara Ebony Edition X Ravette's
>Jessica Bleu (who I believe, if memory serves me, was by Wee Parks Prince
>Charming X Dark Victory's Frozen Lace.......I'll check that at home
>tonight)
>
>Dianne Sever
>Ravette-Jodevin Collies...."A tradition with a family plan"
>

>From: Trish Gutschlag <northbrook.gutschlag@...>
>
>Hi
>I have a collie in my dogs background simply called Sea Dreamer.
>I think this dog came from somewhere in the UK in the 50's
>Anyone got any clues.
>


Hi Trish--

According to the Wizard's Castle database (http://www.wizardscastle.lu),
the rough collie bitch Sea Dreamer is by Clickam Silver Snowstar x Clickam
Night Affection. There are several more generations available (more than I
felt like typing!), so I'd urge you to check it out. The kennel names look
English--this may be the dog you're looking for. Good luck!


Sharon at Caerleon

Here's a bit more:

CH Glen Hill Full Dress was by Ch. Glen Hill Emperor Jones X Debhill
Dainty Doll

CH Ravette's Pinto Di Blue was by CH. Wesbara Ebony Edition X Ravette's
Jessica Bleu (who I believe, if memory serves me, was by Wee Parks Prince
Charming X Dark Victory's Frozen Lace.......I'll check that at home
tonight)

Dianne Sever
Ravette-Jodevin Collies...."A tradition with a family plan"

From: Sharon Baubles/Caerleon Collies <caerleon@...>:

I can add a bit to what Caroline has (hope this isn't too confusing):

>
>Cantigair Counter Punch by Ch. Tartanside Heir Apparent out of
>Cantigair Cheesecake.
>
>Heir Apparent by Ch. Tartanside the Gladiator out of Ravette Tar N'
>Feathers
>

Ravette Tar N' Feathers by CH Tartanside the Gladiator x Ravette's
Midnight
Image

Ravette's Midnight Image by CH Glen Hill Full Dress x CH Ravette's Pinto
Di
Blue


>Cantigair Cheesecake by the Gladiator out of Cantigair Scottish Mist
>

Cantigair's Scottish Mist by Cantigair's Carbon Copy x Cantigair's Calico
Lace
(If anyone has their breeding, I'd appreciate it)


>Paradise Brolly By Golly by Ch. Paradise Macho Man out of Brolly Keep
>the Faith
>
>Macho Man by Ch. Paradice Cloak 'N Dagger out of Zirl Criban Moon
>
>Brolly Keep the Faith by Ch. Paradice Cloak 'n Dagger out of Brolly
>High Hopes

CH Paradice's Cloak 'N Dagger by CH Clarion's Nightrider x Paradice's
Pins
'N Needles

Paradice's Pins 'N Needles by Paradice's Is Sno Joke (that's the spelling
I
have) x Paradice's Impeccable

I have several generations on Nightrider if anyone's interested.

Brolly High Hopes by CH Brolly The Gay Cavalier x Brolly Jasmine
(If anyone has their breeding, I'd appreciate it)

Zirl Criban Moon by Brandwyne Criban Gold x Brandwyn Paradice Moon
(If anyone has their breeding, I'd appreciate it)

>
>Paradice is Snow Joke by Paradice Smoke Screen out of Paradice Sign of
>the Tarot


Caroline, how do the following dogs fit in? I'm confused...

>
>Paradice Centerfold by Paradice Headstart out of Paradice Beautiful
>Noise WD668886
>
>Beautiful Noise by Heckawie Indian Smoke Signal out of Paradice in the
>Moonlight.
>
>Jancada Foolish Pleasure, CD by Ch Pattimac Lion In Winter out of
>Jancada Flirtation WD975683
>
>Pattimac Lion by The Gladiator out of Ravette Tar 'N Feathers
>
>Jancada Flirtation by Ch. Shamont Stormalong out of Jancada Frostflower.
>


Sharon at Caerleon
caerleon@...



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I can add a bit to what Caroline has (hope this isn't too confusing):

>
>Cantigair Counter Punch by Ch. Tartanside Heir Apparent out of
>Cantigair Cheesecake.
>
>Heir Apparent by Ch. Tartanside the Gladiator out of Ravette Tar N'
>Feathers
>

Ravette Tar N' Feathers by CH Tartanside the Gladiator x Ravette's Midnight
Image

Ravette's Midnight Image by CH Glen Hill Full Dress x CH Ravette's Pinto Di
Blue


>Cantigair Cheesecake by the Gladiator out of Cantigair Scottish Mist
>

Cantigair's Scottish Mist by Cantigair's Carbon Copy x Cantigair's Calico Lace
(If anyone has their breeding, I'd appreciate it)


>Paradise Brolly By Golly by Ch. Paradise Macho Man out of Brolly Keep
>the Faith
>
>Macho Man by Ch. Paradice Cloak 'N Dagger out of Zirl Criban Moon
>
>Brolly Keep the Faith by Ch. Paradice Cloak 'n Dagger out of Brolly
>High Hopes

CH Paradice's Cloak 'N Dagger by CH Clarion's Nightrider x Paradice's Pins
'N Needles

Paradice's Pins 'N Needles by Paradice's Is Sno Joke (that's the spelling I
have) x Paradice's Impeccable

I have several generations on Nightrider if anyone's interested.

Brolly High Hopes by CH Brolly The Gay Cavalier x Brolly Jasmine
(If anyone has their breeding, I'd appreciate it)

Zirl Criban Moon by Brandwyne Criban Gold x Brandwyn Paradice Moon
(If anyone has their breeding, I'd appreciate it)

>
>Paradice is Snow Joke by Paradice Smoke Screen out of Paradice Sign of
>the Tarot


Caroline, how do the following dogs fit in? I'm confused...

>
>Paradice Centerfold by Paradice Headstart out of Paradice Beautiful
>Noise WD668886
>
>Beautiful Noise by Heckawie Indian Smoke Signal out of Paradice in the
>Moonlight.
>
>Jancada Foolish Pleasure, CD by Ch Pattimac Lion In Winter out of
>Jancada Flirtation WD975683
>
>Pattimac Lion by The Gladiator out of Ravette Tar 'N Feathers
>
>Jancada Flirtation by Ch. Shamont Stormalong out of Jancada Frostflower.
>


Sharon at Caerleon
caerleon@...

Does anyone have info on York of Pebble Ledge and if there were two?
I show a York of Pebble Ledge of CH Christopher of Pebble Ledge
    X  Little Dorrit being the dam of Shamrock Smooth Stream
and a York of Pebble Ledge being sire of Cul Mor Quine Wendi out of
   Cul Mor Babette of Ebonwood.

I also have TRI-J THE ENCHANTED whelping on 07-05-1981 out of
    EILEEN TALLY-HO, CD  who is listed as whelping in 12/1981

Any information/corrections would be appreciated.

TIA


Dean Mair
mair@...
      "The finest workers in stone are not copper or steel tools,
    but the gentle touches of air and water working at their leisure
              with a liberal allowance of time."
                                                 Thoreau

Ok, here it goes.

Cantigair Counter Punch by Ch. Tartanside Heir Apparent out of
Cantigair Cheesecake.

Heir Apparent by Ch. Tartanside the Gladiator out of Ravette Tar N'
Feathers

Cantigair Cheesecake by the Gladiator out of Cantigair Scottish Mist

Paradise Brolly By Golly by Ch. Paradise Macho Man out of Brolly Keep
the Faith

Macho Man by Ch. Paradice Cloak 'N Dagger out of Zirl Criban Moon

Brolly Keep the Faith by Ch. Paradice Cloak 'n Dagger out of Brolly
High Hopes

Paradice is Snow Joke by Paradice Smoke Screen out of Paradice Sign of
the Tarot

Paradice Centerfold by Paradice Headstart out of Paradice Beautiful
Noise WD668886

Beautiful Noise by Heckawie Indian Smoke Signal out of Paradice in the
Moonlight.

Jancada Foolish Pleasure, CD by Ch Pattimac Lion In Winter out of
Jancada Flirtation WD975683

Pattimac Lion by The Gladiator out of Ravette Tar 'N Feathers

Jancada Flirtation by Ch. Shamont Stormalong out of Jancada Frostflower.

That's all I have.
==
~ Caroline
Shoshannah Collies

ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
    for list mail
baines@... for attachments & personal mail

In a message dated 10/6/98 7:07:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
shoshannahcollie@... writes:

> It's at http://www.compuped.com.  It's not the easiest program to
>  learn because it's dos based, not windows.  But once I figured it out,
>  it was great, and it is fairly simple.

		 Caroline-- Thanks so much for the info. Will be checking it out!
--MelAnnie

Hi Caroline,
I would love the rest of the pedigree.
Thank-You very much!
Heidi
Zephyr Collies

Caroline Baines wrote:

> From: Caroline Baines <shoshannahcollie@...>
>
> > I'ts "Mainstay Sultan of Xanadu"     Gee - did the devil make you do
> that???
> >
> > Sorry - couldn't resist!  :-)
>
> > Meredith
> > Meridel Collies
>
> TOO FUNNY!  Sorry about that, the fingers just got going to quick!
>
> > Where do you find all this info?
> > Heidi
> > Zephyr Collies
>
> Heidi
> I have CompuPed and it came with 10,230 names already entered.  I'm up
> to 14,600 now, which includes a full 10 (four dogs short of 11)
> generation pedigree on my male, complements of Marci Sudlowe, Sudlowe
> Pedigrees.  She's pretty great about doing research, and doesn't
> charge an arm and a leg like some others do.
>
> Someday (probably after I win the lottery :-) I'd like to get ahold of
> some of the really old stud books and take it back even further.  I
> find it really interesting.
>
> I have three more generations on your dog - almost complete - if you
> want them.
> ==
> ~ Caroline
> Shoshannah Collies
>
> ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
>    for list mail
> baines@... for attachments & personal mail
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription
> to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and
> select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.



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> >  I have CompuPed and it came with 10,230 names already entered.
>
> 	 How do you come by this program? Sounds like something I just
might need!
>
> ~~MelAnnie

MelAnnie;

It's at http://www.compuped.com.  It's not the easiest program to
learn because it's dos based, not windows.  But once I figured it out,
it was great, and it is fairly simple.

The customer support is wonderful.
==
~ Caroline
Shoshannah Collies

ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
    for list mail
baines@... for attachments & personal mail

In a message dated 10/6/98 11:58:37 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
caerleon@... writes:

> Magnet's sire as Tonge Admiration, Clarksfield Superior x Countess
>  of Clarksfield, tracing back 3 generations to Eng/Am CH Squire of Tytton.
>
>  As for Magnet's dam, however: in one place I have her as Southport Seal,
>  daughter of CH Parbold Picador; in another I have her as Pickwick Peeper,
>  daughter of Parbold Privateer. (No dams listed for either bitch.)
>

		 Magnet's dam was Southport Seal. Again, tried to find more info, but have
misplaced an old book. Still looking!

MelAnnie

Re: English CH Magnet, he of the famous Magnet-Limit cross to which so many
American collies trace--

I have Magnet's sire as Tonge Admiration, Clarksfield Superior x Countess
of Clarksfield, tracing back 3 generations to Eng/Am CH Squire of Tytton.

As for Magnet's dam, however: in one place I have her as Southport Seal,
daughter of CH Parbold Picador; in another I have her as Pickwick Peeper,
daughter of Parbold Privateer. (No dams listed for either bitch.)

I probably misread one of the sources (some of the older-style geneologies
are very confusing as to which is the dam, which is the sire's dam, and
which is the dam's sire!).

Help, please!

Sharon at Caerleon

In a message dated 10/6/98 9:50:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
caerleon@... writes:

> Can anyone give me more information of CH Black Hawk of Kasan? I have
>  nothing on his dam but her name (CH Kasan's Fine and Fancy);

		 Been so long since I opened my old pedigree book, I think moths went a-
fluttering!

		 Ch. Kasan's Fine & Fancy - sire: The Bogie Man of Drelms. By Ch. Drelms
Imperial Blue ex Drelms Shady Lady    dam: Ch. Mal-Bonn's Blue Sapphire. By
Ch. Glengyle Smooth Sailing ex Bee-Bop of R.N.'s

		 I'm sure someone else can give you more. I'd have to go digging through
buried-in-the-closet boxes to find an older book, which I will do if needed.

MelAnnie

Hi friends--

Can anyone give me more information of CH Black Hawk of Kasan? I have
nothing on his dam but her name (CH Kasan's Fine and Fancy); have the sire
line back to CH Silver Ho Parader but lack the dams' antecedents.

Thanks in advance!


Sharon at Caerleon
caerleon@...

Hi
I have a collie in my dogs background simply called Sea Dreamer.
I think this dog came from somewhere in the UK in the 50's
Anyone got any clues.

In a message dated 10/5/98 2:03:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
shoshannahcollie@... writes:

> Someday (probably after I win the lottery :-) I'd like to get ahold of
>  some of the really old stud books and take it back even further.  I
>  find it really interesting.

		 Caroline-- You might try checking some of the larger public libraries for
stud books. I use to do pedigree research up in Cleveland, Ohio. It's possible
they have stud books due to large local kennel club; but it's worth checking
into!

>  I have CompuPed and it came with 10,230 names already entered.

		 How do you come by this program? Sounds like something I just might need!

~~MelAnnie

> I'ts "Mainstay Sultan of Xanadu"     Gee - did the devil make you do
that???
>
> Sorry - couldn't resist!  :-)

> Meredith
> Meridel Collies

TOO FUNNY!  Sorry about that, the fingers just got going to quick!

> Where do you find all this info?
> Heidi
> Zephyr Collies

Heidi
I have CompuPed and it came with 10,230 names already entered.  I'm up
to 14,600 now, which includes a full 10 (four dogs short of 11)
generation pedigree on my male, complements of Marci Sudlowe, Sudlowe
Pedigrees.  She's pretty great about doing research, and doesn't
charge an arm and a leg like some others do.

Someday (probably after I win the lottery :-) I'd like to get ahold of
some of the really old stud books and take it back even further.  I
find it really interesting.

I have three more generations on your dog - almost complete - if you
want them.
==
~ Caroline
Shoshannah Collies

ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
    for list mail
baines@... for attachments & personal mail

Caroline,
Thank-You for all the info! Now I can trace my pedigree back further than I
had on paper.
Where do you find all this info?
Heidi
Zephyr Collies
P.s. I knew it was Sultan, not Satan :)

Caroline Baines wrote:

> From: Caroline Baines <shoshannahcollie@...>
>
> >    Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 10:52:25 -0400
> >    From: midnite <midnite@...>
> > Subject: Question
> >
> > Ok now that I know the test worked, I have a question :)
> > Does anyone know the sire and dam of Xanadu Silver Phantom?
> > Thanx
> > Heidi
> > Zephyr Collies
>
> Xanadu Silver Phantom is by Xanadu Silver Wraith (D188908) out of
> Xanadu Cover girl.
>
> Silver Wraith is by Ch. Mainstay Satan of Xanadu (WF273691) out of
> Paradice Just a Fantasy (WE801993).
>
> Xanadu Cover Girl is by Ch Mainstay Satan of Xanadu out of Xanadu
> Glamour Girl.
>
> Mainstay is by Cantigair Counter Punch (WE995891) out of Paradice
> Brolly by Golly (WE960131).
>
> Paradice Just a Fantasy is by Paradice is Snow Joke (WC368811) out of
> Paradice Centerfold.
>
> Xanadu Glamour Girl is by Jancada Foolish Pleasure, CD (WE 339065) out
> of Xanadu Highland Holly.j
>
> These are correct as far as I know.  Hope it helps.
>
> ==
> ~ Caroline
> Shoshannah Collies
>
> ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
>    for list mail
> baines@... for attachments & personal mail
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or
> service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit
> http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.



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In a message dated 10/4/98 12:13:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shoshannahcollie@... writes:

<<
  Silver Wraith is by Ch. Mainstay Satan of Xanadu (WF273691) out of
  Paradice Just a Fantasy (WE801993). >>


I'ts "Mainstay Sultan of Xanadu"     Gee - did the devil make you do that???

Sorry - couldn't resist!  :-)


Meredith
Meridel Collies

>    Date: Sat, 03 Oct 1998 10:52:25 -0400
>    From: midnite <midnite@...>
> Subject: Question
>
> Ok now that I know the test worked, I have a question :)
> Does anyone know the sire and dam of Xanadu Silver Phantom?
> Thanx
> Heidi
> Zephyr Collies

Xanadu Silver Phantom is by Xanadu Silver Wraith (D188908) out of
Xanadu Cover girl.

Silver Wraith is by Ch. Mainstay Satan of Xanadu (WF273691) out of
Paradice Just a Fantasy (WE801993).

Xanadu Cover Girl is by Ch Mainstay Satan of Xanadu out of Xanadu
Glamour Girl.

Mainstay is by Cantigair Counter Punch (WE995891) out of Paradice
Brolly by Golly (WE960131).

Paradice Just a Fantasy is by Paradice is Snow Joke (WC368811) out of
Paradice Centerfold.

Xanadu Glamour Girl is by Jancada Foolish Pleasure, CD (WE 339065) out
of Xanadu Highland Holly.j

These are correct as far as I know.  Hope it helps.

==
~ Caroline
Shoshannah Collies

ShoshannahCollie@...   NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
    for list mail
baines@... for attachments & personal mail

Ok now that I know the test worked, I have a question :)
Does anyone know the sire and dam of Xanadu Silver Phantom?
Thanx
Heidi
Zephyr Collies

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"Midnite" testing on Colliebloodlines was received

This test is working!

testing

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