Yes. Seems to be a matter of extreme care and moderation applied when
introducing a new food.

We have wild rabbits here that are so strong and fast. Really beautiful. They
are mostly nocturnal... as are most rabbits I suppose... so I don't have much
opportunity to observe them but assume they forage on many plants. I think the
variety is essential. I'll have to be sure they don't get to my rabbits. I would
be concerned about transmitted disease either way..

Do you think AC that is sold for medicinal use would be safe? That is what I
used.

Chelle

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <gregandapril@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes and no.
>
> They can be toxic, but sometimes it's a matter of changing chemicals in the
> animals system to make it just a very unpleasant place to live or confuse
> the parasite to the point where it has problems reproducing or is unable to
> find the right living spot - so you get a decline in the population - garlic
> is one that is supposed to work in this way.
>
> Sometimes it's a matter of toxicity of degrees - or of intolerance of a
> compound - copper is one of these - most higher animals can tolerate a
> reasonable amount, when lower life forms such as crustaceans and
> invertebrates can not tolerate even small quantities.    Tobacco can act
> this way - worms can't take a lot of the alkaloids found in tobacco, while
> horses and cows can deal with it with anything but the highest doses - in
> fact giving a horse or cow a plug of chewing tobacco used to be an old
> remedy for internal worms..
>
> Still, like you said, it is usually best to take a cautious approach, until
> you know what is going on.
>
> A word about activated charcoal - not all activated charcoal is the same,
> much of it depends on the base carbon material that was used, and how it was
> processed.  In some cases it has been found that AC not only contained an
> excess of one chemical or another, but those chemicals can leach out of the
> AC, under the right conditions.
> .
>
> Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
> something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "First L" <jeannee1988@...>
> To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:24
> Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: Herbs that destroy parasites. Are any
> poisonous to rabbits?
>
>
> I would love to know what I could use that is natural. But any herb that
> kills parasites is bound to be poisonous.  That is why they work.
>

Good advice about experimenting on one or two first.

I don't have my rabbits yet... still establishing a food forest and building
their housing. Just research at this stage to make as few mistakes as possible.
Have no desire to become a serial rabbit killer through ignorance....  and so
because I want to go completely off-grid I am doing tons of reading and asking..
:)

I will remember that about the activated charcoal too.... I used that once for
myself in a case of food poisoning and it really did help. Never thought to use
it on a rabbit but it makes wonderful sense now.

I think I will start introducing certain herbs as part of their diet everyday...
just one at a time and a little at a time... and perhaps that will create an
internal environment inhospitable to the parasites etc. I read on a site where
they do that with goats. The necessary herbs are given as part of the diet and
keeps them healthy. Also put EM in their water.

I will definitely share any results when I get my rabbits. Really looking
forward to getting them but not ready yet. Rabbit house still needs a roof! And
forage I will be using is still not enough I think. They are tender little
creatures so I best prepare properly. Is more complicated than I first thought.
Hasn't dampened my enthusiasm though! :)

Thanks for your thoughts.
Chelle

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "First L" <jeannee1988@...> wrote:
>
> I would love to know what I could use that is natural. But any herb that kills
parasites is bound to be poisonous.  That is why they work.
>
> Animals that forage for themselves will often crave what they need and take
small amounts of natural dewormers themself.  For example, my rabbits crave and
love wild garlic tops in the Spring.  So, do I.  But, caution must be used here
because they will eat too much and colic, and die, especially small bunnies. 
Only small amounts, gradually....which means I have no clue how much, only that
if too much, not good.
>
> One critical thing to know if you are experimenting with dewormers is that you
can give activated charcoal to bunny to aid with stomach distress from toxins
and parasite die off.  Check with your feed store, or even human health food
store.  I keep it on hand.  It absorbs poison in the digestive tract. All it is,
is charcoal.  The all natural stomach relief medicine.
>
> I don't know about Castor Oil, but I have heard that giving a rabbit mineral
oil is dangerous because it coats the gut and makes it difficult to absorb water
and nutrients.  So you may have slow developing enteritis situation if you are
not careful.  Experiment on one or two, but not all, and let us know how it
goes.
>
> Jeanne

Activated Charcoal is different from the stuff you might dig out of burn
pit, in that it is made to have pores of a certain size, this can be done by
carefully selecting the material to be charred, how it is charred, at what
temperature it is charred - by doing so, the pore size can be concentrated
in a general range that can allow selective up take of a substance, by
trapping the molecules of that substance in the pores.

If pore size is random, then the size of the molecules is also random, but a
molecule that is a significant size smaller than the pore that it's in, has
a chance of being washed back out of the charcoal, and this increased with
decreasing molecule size and increasing time.

One of the problems with AC, is that the process of making char ( any char )
is that salts of calcium, potassium, magnesium and sodium, can react at
higher temperatures to form a slag that can close pores and thus inhibit the
uptake of chemicals, so the char is often treated with an acid, often
phosphoric acid but it can be another type, and is not always washed out
completely - sometimes because the company is being cheep and taking short
cuts, but just as often because it has been absorbed just like any other
compound that might get trapped within the pores.

A common use of AC in aquariums is to absorb things like chlorine from the
tap water or perhaps ammonia from the fish or yellowing compounds ( both big
uses with reef tanks that require good to excellent water quality and
clarity ) - however it was found that some brands actually released more
compounds into the water ( remember that mentioned that with increasing time
the chance of one molecule could get washed out? ), in fact some testing was
once done that found that after about a week, most of the AC was a full
capacity and then depending on the ph and other conditions could start
releasing the compounds that were originally trapped.

Simply put, the expensive stuff you by has been treated to have more pores
and absorb more compounds ( we hope ) than the stuff you would dig out of a
burn pit, while the stuff from the burn pit is the result of uncontrolled
combustion, forming at between 300* C and 900* C and could even have
residual wood tars, many of which can be toxic them selves ( does Creosote
ring a bell?  how about Methanol or wood alcohol ? ) you really just don't
know what you are getting from the stuff in the burn pit.

Greg H.
.

Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "First L" <jeannee1988@...>
To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 15:19
Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: Herbs that destroy parasites. Are any
poisonous to rabbits?


>
> What is confusing to me, is why it has to "activated"...I mean what is the
> difference between the expensive stuff you buy and something you might dig
> out of a burn pit?  Silly question I know.  But, just trying to undertand.
> I am sure others may be curious too.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeanne
> --- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April"
> <gregandapril@...> wrote:
>>
>> Yes and no.
>>
>> They can be toxic, but sometimes it's a matter of changing chemicals in
>> the
>> animals system to make it just a very unpleasant place to live or confuse
>> the parasite to the point where it has problems reproducing or is unable
>> to
>> find the right living spot - so you get a decline in the population -
>> garlic
>> is one that is supposed to work in this way.
>>
>> Sometimes it's a matter of toxicity of degrees - or of intolerance of a
>> compound - copper is one of these - most higher animals can tolerate a
>> reasonable amount, when lower life forms such as crustaceans and
>> invertebrates can not tolerate even small quantities.    Tobacco can act
>> this way - worms can't take a lot of the alkaloids found in tobacco,
>> while
>> horses and cows can deal with it with anything but the highest doses - in
>> fact giving a horse or cow a plug of chewing tobacco used to be an old
>> remedy for internal worms..
>>
>> Still, like you said, it is usually best to take a cautious approach,
>> until
>> you know what is going on.
>>
>> A word about activated charcoal - not all activated charcoal is the same,
>> much of it depends on the base carbon material that was used, and how it
>> was
>> processed.  In some cases it has been found that AC not only contained an
>> excess of one chemical or another, but those chemicals can leach out of
>> the
>> AC, under the right conditions.
>> .
>>
>> Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
>> something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
>>
>> .
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "First L" <jeannee1988@...>
>> To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
>> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:24
>> Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: Herbs that destroy parasites. Are any
>> poisonous to rabbits?
>>
>>
>> I would love to know what I could use that is natural. But any herb that
>> kills parasites is bound to be poisonous.  That is why they work.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Regarding the activated charcoal....this is something I really don't fully
understand.  I have taken it myself, in combination with various body cleanse
products & probiotics (think GNC) and it does work. It will even heal cold sores
and heart burn overnight. But, it tastes like you would expect charcoal too,
horrible, and an animal doesn't normally want it.  You have to add a little to
something tastier and make them take it.

What is confusing to me, is why it has to "activated"...I mean what is the
difference between the expensive stuff you buy and something you might dig out
of a burn pit?  Silly question I know.  But, just trying to undertand.  I am
sure others may be curious too.

Thanks,
Jeanne
--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "Greg and April" <gregandapril@...>
wrote:
>
> Yes and no.
>
> They can be toxic, but sometimes it's a matter of changing chemicals in the
> animals system to make it just a very unpleasant place to live or confuse
> the parasite to the point where it has problems reproducing or is unable to
> find the right living spot - so you get a decline in the population - garlic
> is one that is supposed to work in this way.
>
> Sometimes it's a matter of toxicity of degrees - or of intolerance of a
> compound - copper is one of these - most higher animals can tolerate a
> reasonable amount, when lower life forms such as crustaceans and
> invertebrates can not tolerate even small quantities.    Tobacco can act
> this way - worms can't take a lot of the alkaloids found in tobacco, while
> horses and cows can deal with it with anything but the highest doses - in
> fact giving a horse or cow a plug of chewing tobacco used to be an old
> remedy for internal worms..
>
> Still, like you said, it is usually best to take a cautious approach, until
> you know what is going on.
>
> A word about activated charcoal - not all activated charcoal is the same,
> much of it depends on the base carbon material that was used, and how it was
> processed.  In some cases it has been found that AC not only contained an
> excess of one chemical or another, but those chemicals can leach out of the
> AC, under the right conditions.
> .
>
> Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
> something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.
>
> .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "First L" <jeannee1988@...>
> To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:24
> Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: Herbs that destroy parasites. Are any
> poisonous to rabbits?
>
>
> I would love to know what I could use that is natural. But any herb that
> kills parasites is bound to be poisonous.  That is why they work.
>

This could quickly develop into a serious problem.  Rabbits can colic, or gut
goes into stasis and stress triggers it.   If the rabbit doesn't eat, he doesn't
poop, but there is still undigested material in there and bacteria and
associated toxins will build up.
Do the skin test to see if he is hydrated.  Feel and listen to his gut.  You can
Syringe feed him, and if necessary inject 15 - 30 cc's of sterile water under
the skin if he is dehydrated.

Here is a recipe for syringe feeding:
1/2 cup water,
1/2 tsp Meta-Mucil (Or Natural Fiber Laxative - Psyllium Husk Fiber)

Then add your choice depending on what is on hand: crushed vitamin, electolytes,
yogurt, raw goat milk, digestive enzymes...just add quick before Meta-Mucil
thickens up.

They make  some products for baby horses that might be good too.  Check your
feed store.  Just about anything you can give a horse works with rabbits.  But,
caution that they may contain alot of sugars.  It should stimulate appetite
though.

A tiny amount (rice amount) of the activated charcoal syringe feed with
something sweet, like horse PRO-BIOS, (pea size amount ) will help absorb toxins
and relieve painful stomach.

Jeanne

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "harvest_moon_rabitry"
<mzbunny@...> wrote:
>
> I have a buck that has never lived on his own. We sold his pen mate and now he
won't eat or drink. I have brought him into the house, his favorite place, yet
still he sulks. Has anyone else had this happen when thier rabbits become single
living and away from thier friends? This rabbit won't even eat his favorite
foods... Im getting worried.
>

Yes and no.

They can be toxic, but sometimes it's a matter of changing chemicals in the
animals system to make it just a very unpleasant place to live or confuse
the parasite to the point where it has problems reproducing or is unable to
find the right living spot - so you get a decline in the population - garlic
is one that is supposed to work in this way.

Sometimes it's a matter of toxicity of degrees - or of intolerance of a
compound - copper is one of these - most higher animals can tolerate a
reasonable amount, when lower life forms such as crustaceans and
invertebrates can not tolerate even small quantities.    Tobacco can act
this way - worms can't take a lot of the alkaloids found in tobacco, while
horses and cows can deal with it with anything but the highest doses - in
fact giving a horse or cow a plug of chewing tobacco used to be an old
remedy for internal worms..

Still, like you said, it is usually best to take a cautious approach, until
you know what is going on.

A word about activated charcoal - not all activated charcoal is the same,
much of it depends on the base carbon material that was used, and how it was
processed.  In some cases it has been found that AC not only contained an
excess of one chemical or another, but those chemicals can leach out of the
AC, under the right conditions.
.

Once you can accept the universe as matter expanding into nothing that is
something, wearing stripes with plaid comes easy.

.
----- Original Message -----
From: "First L" <jeannee1988@...>
To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:24
Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: Herbs that destroy parasites. Are any
poisonous to rabbits?


I would love to know what I could use that is natural. But any herb that
kills parasites is bound to be poisonous.  That is why they work.

I would love to know what I could use that is natural. But any herb that kills
parasites is bound to be poisonous.  That is why they work.

Animals that forage for themselves will often crave what they need and take
small amounts of natural dewormers themself.  For example, my rabbits crave and
love wild garlic tops in the Spring.  So, do I.  But, caution must be used here
because they will eat too much and colic, and die, especially small bunnies. 
Only small amounts, gradually....which means I have no clue how much, only that
if too much, not good.

One critical thing to know if you are experimenting with dewormers is that you
can give activated charcoal to bunny to aid with stomach distress from toxins
and parasite die off.  Check with your feed store, or even human health food
store.  I keep it on hand.  It absorbs poison in the digestive tract. All it is,
is charcoal.  The all natural stomach relief medicine.

I don't know about Castor Oil, but I have heard that giving a rabbit mineral oil
is dangerous because it coats the gut and makes it difficult to absorb water and
nutrients.  So you may have slow developing enteritis situation if you are not
careful.  Experiment on one or two, but not all, and let us know how it goes.

Jeanne

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "cyara2408" <Chelle248@...> wrote:
>
> I was reading the thread "Dealing with diseases of colony raised rabbits" with
interest, and wondered how one would tackle these problems sustainably and
off-grid.
>
> On this site http://www.humaworm.com/deworming.html I read:
> "Many older people remember the home remedies for parasites such as the very
commonplace castor oil treatment.  Before the 1930’s it was common and routine
for families to worm themselves every six months.  In the 1800’s, medical
doctors would supervise the biannual de-worming process for their patients. The
European medical community of today still recommends biannual worming.
....Let’s review how a modern American doctor tests for parasites.  There are
over 1,000 species of parasites that can live in the human body.  Modern
medicine has tests for about 45 of these.  Therefore, tests are available for
only about 5% of parasites.  The accuracy rate of these tests are 20%.  After
the math, we come up with a 1% accuracy rate.  It all boils down to this â€" if
you have any type of parasite in your body, you only have a 1% chance of finding
out for sure with a medical test.........We have found that a milder dose of
parasite killing herbs over a longer period of time is the MOST EFFECTIVE way to
rid your entire body of parasites and their toxins.  Your body does not go into
shock - and all parasites, larvae and eggs are removed over a thirty day period.
Most parasites are destroyed within the first week of treatment, however, the
remaining larvae and eggs are removed in the next twenty-three days.."
>
> I doubt if diagnosis is any different with vetinary practice ... in
general.... today. I have read of some amazing stories written by a vet himself
in an attempt to uncover money-driven malpractice.
>
> This is the list given as parasite destroyers on the site...
http://www.humaworm.com/formula.html
>
> THE PARASITE DESTROYERS
>
> BLACK WALNUTâ€" The dried and ground green hull of the Black Walnut contains
tannin which is an organic iodine as well as juglandin, juglone and juglandic
acids.  It has been used for centuries to expel various types of worms including
parasites that cause skin irritations â€" such as ringworm.  It oxygenates the
blood, which also helps to kill parasites.  Black Walnut is very effective
against tapeworms, pinworms, candida albicans (yeast infections) and malaria. 
It is also effective in reducing sugar levels, and helping the body rid itself
of toxins.
>
> WORMWOODâ€"The MOST POWERFUL of the parasite killing herb kingdom.  It is most
effective against roundworms, hookworms, whipworms and pinworms. Wormwood
contains the toxins thujone and isothujone  which are the components that kill
parasites. Wormwood also contains santonin which is known as a remedy for
parasitic diseases.  It is the second most bitter herb known to man and has been
proven as a POWERFUL remedy for malaria.  Wormwood also contains sesquiterpene
lactones, which work similar to peroxide by weakening the parasites membranes
therefore killing them.  Wormwood also helps produce bile, which in turn helps
the liver and gallbladder.
>
> CLOVES - Cloves contain eugenol, caryophyllene, and tannins which are powerful
anti-microbial properties â€" these components are what actually travel in the
bloodstream killing microscopic parasites and all parastitic larvae and eggs. 
Eugonal is the most powerful anti-microbial agents known. Eugonal kills all
microscopic protoza and removes parasite eggs in every stage of development. 
Cloves are tremendously effective in killing malaria, tuberculosis, cholera,
scabies and other parasites, viruses, bacteria and fungi including candida
Cloves also destroy pseudomonas aeruginosa, all species of shigella, staph and
strep..
>
> THYME â€" Thyme contains thymol, carvacrol and flavonoids which are effective
in killing bacteria (such as fungal infections ie: yeast infections) and are
especially effective in killing hookworms, roundworms, threadworms and skin
parasites.Thyme also destroys Cryptococcus neoformans, Aspergillus, Saprolegnia,
and Zygorhynchus species. AND Salmonella typhimurium, Staphylococcus aureas,
Escherichia coli and other bacterial species. As an antibiotic, thymol is 25
times more effective than phenol, but much less toxic.  Thyme is the primary
ingredient in LISTERINE MOUTHWASH because of its germ killing power.  It is
anti-virul and anti-fungal.
>
> GARLIC - Garlic can slow and kill, more than sixty types of fungi and twenty
types of bacteria, including some of the most potent viruses known to man.
Garlic alone can help in controlling parasites. Garlic has a history of being
able to kill parasites and control secondary fungal infections; detoxify and
gently stimulate elimination; it also has antioxidant properties to protect
against oxidation caused by parasites' toxins. Allicin and Ajoene, are the
components in Garlic that kill parasites including the one-cell varaties as well
as pinworms and hookworms. Garlic has antimicrobial activities (including
anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal, anti-protozoal, and anti-parasitic)
that kills: B. subtilis, E. coli, P. mirabilis, Salmonella typhi,
methicillin-resistant Staph aureus, Staph faecalis, salmonella enteritidis, and
V. cholerae ,staphylococcus, Escherichia, Proteus, Salmonella, Providencia,
Citrobacter, Klebsiella, Hafnia, Aeromonas, Vibrio and Bacillus genera. Garlic
is also very effective against Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Garlic also kills
Microsporum, Epidermophyton, Trichophyton, Rhodotorula, Torulopsis,
Trichosporon, Cryptococcus neoformans, and Candida, including Candida albicans.
Garlic also has anti-amoebic and anti-protozoan properties and is especially
effective against Entamoeba histolytica  and Paramecium caudatum.
>
> FENNEL - This herb is known to be anti-parasitic. Fennel Seed is used to help
remove and expel Parasites and their waste and from the body. Fennel is also
very effective against Candida Albicans.
>
> CAYENNE â€" Capsicum is the component in cayenne that destroys parasites. It
is a very effective herb for the elimination of parasites.
>
> GINGER â€" The components of gingerol (zingiberone, bisabolene, camphene,
geranial, linalool and borneol)  found in ginger are what destroys parasites
including the roundworm, the blood fluke the anisakid worm, and bacteria
including salmonella.
>
> GENTIAN â€" This herb is wonderful for ridding the body of parasites including
plasmodia which is the malaria causing parasite . It is more effective than
quinine.  Gentian is also good for treating anemia and counteracting the effects
of parasite toxins in the body by stimulating the liver to produce more bile.
>
> HYSSOP - Hyssop contains an essential hormone oil which is very effective in
destroying a variety of parasites and is very effective against the herpes
simplex virus.
>

I am new to this group too, but have tried colony raising a few times in the
past.  At first I would suggest releasing your fryers, or ones you aren't as
concerned about should something happen to them.  NO bunnies.  No good mamas or
breeding stock.  See how it goes first, and give it time before getting overly
confident.  Just remember once you release them into colony, if you put them
back in cages, cages may be contaminated if they've picked up disease,
especially if wood is in the framework.  So, that goes without saying, don't
breed colony rabbits with your cage rabbits if you are concerned about disease
and parasite spread.  I am just saying, err on the side of caution.  Or you may
end up like me, having to destroy the whole lot of them and starting over.

DO NOT give them wood floors.  That is a serious disease harbinger.  They will
just pee in all the corners and you will have to clean it.  Dirt is best.  The
dig and the poo poo composts it'self to some extent.  Any surface other than
dirt and you will have to clean.

I find it to be a great way to finish out fryers that have outgrown thier cage,
but still can stay together.  I just wait till they reach 8-10 weeks. Then they
enjoy the great outdoors for a couple of weeks and don't realize they are
actually on "death row."  After cleaning out the rabbits, I can clean the area
up and start over if I need to.

As far as the rabbits "lanquishing" away in thier cages, I would not worry about
it.  The rabbit prefers to hide in it's own nest area anyway, and if it has no
idea that there is a world outside his cage, he will not be concerned with it. 
They are happy just being left alone and feeling "safe".  The big world outside
does not impart a "safe" feeling for bunny.  Some do well, others are terrified
will die or starve.

To test this theory...put bunny's cage on the ground and open the door.  See how
long it takes him to leave, and if he does, startle him, and he'll run straight
back for his cage in most cases.


Jeanne

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, FS31056@... wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> This is the first time I have posted here. I have been following all  the
> discussions for the last 9 months or so wanting to learn about colony
> raising. Currently I raise all my rabbits in cages. The concept of colony 
raising
> appeals to me simply because I would like to see my rabbits "Happier" I
> understand and see that rabbits in cages tend to do nothing but lay around and
>  languish. However from reading of your experiences raising rabbits on the
> ground  sounds like there are so much more dangers between the diseases and
> the  predators, and very labor intensive in creating secure enclosures. I
> live  in Florida and wild critters and diseases abound as it is. I just can't
> see the  usefulness of exposing my rabbits to these inherit dangers simply
> for the sake  of making sure my rabbits are socializing.
>
> I have not abandoned the concept though. I'm just wondering if there is a
> hybrid method that still gives me satisfactory control over the herd, keeps
> them  completely safe and healthy, and still provides for their
> socialization.
>
> I do not want to pour concrete slabs, and then still have to shovel out all
>  their mess. I have been thinking of a raised colony house system. Where a
> building is constructed about 3-4 feet off the ground with the floor made
> of  wooden slats spaced just far apart enough for the mess to fall through.
> The  rabbits won't be able to dig but I will have control over the nests
> which I can  build into the floors.
>
> Has anyone out there done this type of system? Is this feasible and
> practical? Any other ideas or suggestion?
>
> Thanks
> Frank
>

----- Original Message -----

From: FS31056@...

To: colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 9:07 AM

Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: new and really need help

Hi all

 

This is the first time I have posted here. I have been following all the discussions for the last 9 months or so wanting to learn about colony raising. Currently I raise all my rabbits in cages. The concept of colony raising appeals to me simply because I would like to see my rabbits "Happier" I understand and see that rabbits in cages tend to do nothing but lay around and languish. However from reading of your experiences raising rabbits on the ground sounds like there are so much more dangers between the diseases and the predators, and very labor intensive in creating secure enclosures. I live in Florida and wild critters and diseases abound as it is. I just can't see the usefulness of exposing my rabbits to these inherit dangers simply for the sake of making sure my rabbits are socializing.

 

I have not abandoned the concept though. I'm just wondering if there is a hybrid method that still gives me satisfactory control over the herd, keeps them completely safe and healthy, and still provides for their socialization.

 

I do not want to pour concrete slabs, and then still have to shovel out all their mess. I have been thinking of a raised colony house system. Where a building is constructed about 3-4 feet off the ground with the floor made of wooden slats spaced just far apart enough for the mess to fall through. The rabbits won't be able to dig but I will have control over the nests which I can build into the floors.

 

Has anyone out there done this type of system? Is this feasible and practical? Any other ideas or suggestion?

 

Thanks

Frank

Interesting. Can Castor oil be given to rabbits?

I think in a colony set-up I would have one or two outside camps.... within a
rotation of camps.... that are concrete floor... and would de-worm with such a
radical treatment in these camps.... doused then with bleach or what ever is
best to sterilise. That is if rabbits can have castor oil. How soon after
administration are the parasites discharged?

Chelle

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, "Jacky" <jacky.foo@...> wrote:
>
>  "cyara2408"  wrote:
> > On this site http://www.humaworm.com/deworming.html I read:
> > "Many older people remember the home remedies for parasites
> >such as the very commonplace castor oil treatment.
>
> my mum used this on all of us kids when we were young. It worked and
intestinal worms were discharged but they are still alive.
>
>
> > This is the list given as parasite destroyers on the site...
>http://www.humaworm.com/formula.html
> > THE PARASITE DESTROYERS
>
> what about those in rabbits ? are the parasites/worms also discharged alive or
they are dead !
>
> In a rabbit colony, if parasites and worms are discharged and alive, how do we
cope with these on the ground ?
>
> I guess the worms themselves will not re-infect but the cysts will also be
discharged.
>
> Should rabbits to be dewormed be separated from the colony ?
>
> +++++jf
>
> +++++jf
>

"cyara2408"  wrote:
> On this site http://www.humaworm.com/deworming.html I read:
> "Many older people remember the home remedies for parasites
>such as the very commonplace castor oil treatment.

my mum used this on all of us kids when we were young. It worked and intestinal
worms were discharged but they are still alive.


> This is the list given as parasite destroyers on the site...
>http://www.humaworm.com/formula.html
> THE PARASITE DESTROYERS

what about those in rabbits ? are the parasites/worms also discharged alive or
they are dead !

In a rabbit colony, if parasites and worms are discharged and alive, how do we
cope with these on the ground ?

I guess the worms themselves will not re-infect but the cysts will also be
discharged.

Should rabbits to be dewormed be separated from the colony ?

+++++jf

+++++jf

"Greg and April" wrote:
> Until they establish a pecking order there will be some fighting,..
> One thing that helps is making sure the enclosure is big enough,
>and putting obstacles in it, that can limit line of sight,.....
>The obstacles also break the one big space up into many smaller
> spaces that each rabbit can develop into their own territory.
> ....4-5 bales of straw would work if placed strategically -
>even some logs, that are staked into place, but make sure that
>there is enough room at the ends for a rabbit to get pass them,
>so it doesn't get cornered.

VERY USEFUL INFO to me ....

Thanks Greg H.   .

for broilers (from 3 months old) I will separate rabbits by sex and keep them in
open enclosures. I was thinking of 50 males in one large enclosure. All (as a
batch) would go for slaughter when they are about 2 kg in weight.

Q: what if I keep small numbers in smaller enclosures ?
5 males in 5 m2 !

+++ jf

I was reading the thread "Dealing with diseases of colony raised rabbits" with
interest, and wondered how one would tackle these problems sustainably and
off-grid.

On this site http://www.humaworm.com/deworming.html I read:
"Many older people remember the home remedies for parasites such as the very
commonplace castor oil treatment.  Before the 1930’s it was common and routine
for families to worm themselves every six months.  In the 1800’s, medical
doctors would supervise the biannual de-worming process for their patients. The
European medical community of today still recommends biannual worming.
....Let’s review how a modern American doctor tests for parasites.  There are
over 1,000 species of parasites that can live in the human body.  Modern
medicine has tests for about 45 of these.  Therefore, tests are available for
only about 5% of parasites.  The accuracy rate of these tests are 20%.  After
the math, we come up with a 1% accuracy rate.  It all boils down to this â€" if
you have any type of parasite in your body, you only have a 1% chance of finding
out for sure with a medical test.........We have found that a milder dose of
parasite killing herbs over a longer period of time is the MOST EFFECTIVE way to
rid your entire body of parasites and their toxins.  Your body does not go into
shock - and all parasites, larvae and eggs are removed over a thirty day period.
Most parasites are destroyed within the first week of treatment, however, the
remaining larvae and eggs are removed in the next twenty-three days.."

I doubt if diagnosis is any different with vetinary practice ... in general....
today. I have read of some amazing stories written by a vet himself in an
attempt to uncover money-driven malpractice.

This is the list given as parasite destroyers on the site...
http://www.humaworm.com/formula.html

THE PARASITE DESTROYERS

BLACK WALNUTâ€" The dried and ground green hull of the Black Walnut contains
tannin which is an organic iodine as well as juglandin, juglone and juglandic
acids.  It has been used for centuries to expel various types of worms including
parasites that cause skin irritations â€" such as ringworm.  It oxygenates the
blood, which also helps to kill parasites.  Black Walnut is very effective
against tapeworms, pinworms, candida albicans (yeast infections) and malaria. 
It is also effective in reducing sugar levels, and helping the body rid itself
of toxins.

WORMWOODâ€"The MOST POWERFUL of the parasite killing herb kingdom.  It is most
effective against roundworms, hookworms, whipworms and pinworms. Wormwood
contains the toxins thujone and isothujone  which are the components that kill
parasites. Wormwood also contains santonin which is known as a remedy for
parasitic diseases.  It is the second most bitter herb known to man and has been
proven as a POWERFUL remedy for malaria.  Wormwood also contains sesquiterpene
lactones, which work similar to peroxide by weakening the parasites membranes
therefore killing them.  Wormwood also helps produce bile, which in turn helps
the liver and gallbladder.

CLOVES - Cloves contain eugenol, caryophyllene, and tannins which are powerful
anti-microbial properties â€" these components are what actually travel in the
bloodstream killing microscopic parasites and all parastitic larvae and eggs. 
Eugonal is the most powerful anti-microbial agents known. Eugonal kills all
microscopic protoza and removes parasite eggs in every stage of development. 
Cloves are tremendously effective in killing malaria, tuberculosis, cholera,
scabies and other parasites, viruses, bacteria and fungi including candida
Cloves also destroy pseudomonas aeruginosa, all species of shigella, staph and
strep..

THYME â€" Thyme contains thymol, carvacrol and flavonoids which are effective in
killing bacteria (such as fungal infections ie: yeast infections) and are
especially effective in killing hookworms, roundworms, threadworms and skin
parasites.Thyme also destroys Cryptococcus neoformans, Aspergillus, Saprolegnia,
and Zygorhynchus species. AND Salmonella typhimurium, Staphylococcus aureas,
Escherichia coli and other bacterial species. As an antibiotic, thymol is 25
times more effective than phenol, but much less toxic.  Thyme is the primary
ingredient in LISTERINE MOUTHWASH because of its germ killing power.  It is
anti-virul and anti-fungal.

GARLIC - Garlic can slow and kill, more than sixty types of fungi and twenty
types of bacteria, including some of the most potent viruses known to man.
Garlic alone can help in controlling parasites. Garlic has a history of being
able to kill parasites and control secondary fungal infections; detoxify and
gently stimulate elimination; it also has antioxidant properties to protect
against oxidation caused by parasites' toxins. Allicin and Ajoene, are the
components in Garlic that kill parasites including the one-cell varaties as well
as pinworms and hookworms. Garlic has antimicrobial activities (including
anti-bacterial, anti-viral, anti-fungal, anti-protozoal, and anti-parasitic)
that kills: B. subtilis, E. coli, P. mirabilis, Salmonella typhi,
methicillin-resistant Staph aureus, Staph faecalis, salmonella enteritidis, and
V. cholerae ,staphylococcus, Escherichia, Proteus, Salmonella, Providencia,
Citrobacter, Klebsiella, Hafnia, Aeromonas, Vibrio and Bacillus genera. Garlic
is also very effective against Mycobacterium tuberculosis. Garlic also kills
Microsporum, Epidermophyton, Trichophyton, Rhodotorula, Torulopsis,
Trichosporon, Cryptococcus neoformans, and Candida, including Candida albicans.
Garlic also has anti-amoebic and anti-protozoan properties and is especially
effective against Entamoeba histolytica  and Paramecium caudatum.

FENNEL - This herb is known to be anti-parasitic. Fennel Seed is used to help
remove and expel Parasites and their waste and from the body. Fennel is also
very effective against Candida Albicans.

CAYENNE â€" Capsicum is the component in cayenne that destroys parasites. It is
a very effective herb for the elimination of parasites.

GINGER â€" The components of gingerol (zingiberone, bisabolene, camphene,
geranial, linalool and borneol)  found in ginger are what destroys parasites
including the roundworm, the blood fluke the anisakid worm, and bacteria
including salmonella.

GENTIAN â€" This herb is wonderful for ridding the body of parasites including
plasmodia which is the malaria causing parasite . It is more effective than
quinine.  Gentian is also good for treating anemia and counteracting the effects
of parasite toxins in the body by stimulating the liver to produce more bile.

HYSSOP - Hyssop contains an essential hormone oil which is very effective in
destroying a variety of parasites and is very effective against the herpes
simplex virus.

There is a withdrawal period and it says it on the tube, which is marketed for
horses, cows, pigs, or anything but rabbits. The other concern is creating a
resistance to the dewormer by overuse or not rotating with other dewormers. 
There are several dewormers now that are not as effective as they used to be. 
Not only that, but people tend to arbitrarily use them because we don't know
when or if they need to be used, or can't afford to take rabbits to the vet for
sampling, that is if we could find a vet that knew jack about rabbits. All we
know is bunnies will die unless we take some precautions.  The same can be said
of antibiotic use.  At least with our cage raised rabbits, at some point we
should be able to claim, antibiotic and chemical free.  But, could that possibly
be true with colony raised rabbits...a method that you would think would be more
"natural"?

--- In colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com, Rosario Delgado-Lecaroz
<charitodl@...> wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I wonder if there is a withdrawal time for the ivermectin.  FOr instance,
there is withdrawal time for goats if you use 1% Ivomec of 56 days for meat
(meaning it is still present in the meat after 30d ays) or milk for 40 days. 
The drench is less (14 d and 9 days for meat/milk).
>
> I wonder if there is such thing for rabbits.
>
> I am quite new (two months) at this, so I ask in good manner.
>
> Yours respectfully,
> Rosario
>
> --- On Wed, 11/18/09, Jauson <mzbunny@...> wrote:
>
> From: Jauson <mzbunny@...>
> Subject: Re: [colonyraisingrabbits] Dealing with diseases of colony raised
rabbits
> To: colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 2009, 6:07 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>       Have you tired Ivomec, this will cure about all of the worm troubles and
you
>
> will always have worm issues with rabbits on the ground.
>
> As for the bots, we have them too, however I worm every 30 days, so its not
>
> the problem one would think.
>
> I also have to say this.. and I hate to... I have the same luck with sheep.
>
> My neighbors have wonderful herds of bouncing lambs every spring, I have
>
> dead sheep with in weeks of purchase... some people just don't get along
>
> with something's. ... you may want to try some things that will help you..
>
> and if that doesn't work.. rabbits may be your sheep.
>
> Try to put sweet lime on the ground.. this sterilizes it as well as gives
>
> calcium to the diet,. don't put the bucks and does together, hand breed and
>
> examine your animals before you do. Make sure they are VD free, then breed.
>
> don't breed more then one doe per day per buck and see how that goes.
>
> Worm like a new religion. Rabbits can also use the cat version of Advantage
>
> if you have the money for that sort of thing.
>
> I wish you all the luck in the world.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> From: "jeannee1988" <jeannee1988@ yahoo.com>
>
> To: <colonyraisingrabbit s@yahoogroups. com>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:17 AM
>
> Subject: [colonyraisingrabbi ts] Dealing with diseases of colony raised
>
> rabbits
>
>
>
> > Hi everyone, I am new to group and curious about how your colonies are
>
> > working out.  Mine have not been very successful.
>
> >
>
> > How you address common diseases and parasites that take up with rabbits
>
> > kept on the ground?  I live in Georgia and I have attempted colony style
>
> > raising 3 times and ended up having to kill all the rabbits after a short
>
> > period when they became diseased. Problems included things like Mucoid
>
> > enteritis, Coccidia, Syphillus, and extremely nasty bot flys (wolves)
>
> > parasites which will eat the rabbit from the inside out as the worm grows.
>
> >
>
> > At first all looked well, after social structure was established.  Dens
>
> > were dug, they got along happily, and loved to run and play in the sun.
>
> > It was interesting to observe colony behavior.  The first year I had 5
>
> > females and a male.  They ended up with Syphillis.  It worked well for a
>
> > about 3 months.  All the bunnies died from that herd, from then on, even
>
> > after I removed them from the colony, dewormed them, treated with
>
> > antibiotics, and put them back in caqes.  Bunnies never survived past
>
> > weaning age and there was no cure, nor reason was found for the enteritis
>
> > symptoms that killed them. So they were all destroyed. All the cages
>
> > cleaned and bleached and ready to start over.
>
> >
>
> > The following year I released my fryer rabbits, in one location, and
>
> > healthy culled females in another, all of whom I planned to butcher in a
>
> > few weeks anyway. This habitat had NO Grass, because I have become
>
> > convinced that grass, as well as hay, kills by upsetting intestinal flora,
>
> > whether via mold spores, fructose levels, or whatever from numerous
>
> > incidents over the years. We feed a high fiber rabbit pellet only. So, it
>
> > was set up so that there was plenty of dry areas to stay in and clean dirt
>
> > to dig where no other animals had been in a long time.  There was plenty
>
> > of space so I would not have to clean as often.
>
> >
>
> > Within 2 - 3 weeks, I had serious problems. They ALL ended up with
>
> > intestinal problems, parasites, and 90% succumbed to muciod enteritis in a
>
> > matter of about 3 days after the first victim started to show signs of
>
> > dehydration.  Anything under 3 months old died very quickly.
>
> >
>
> > The adult colony fared little better.  They were attacked by bot flys
>
> > which is a long slow painfull death sentence.  Unfortunately, I did not
>
> > realize how infected they were until I butchered.  All of these rabbits
>
> > had to be destroyed as I will not take the risk of putting them back in
>
> > cages that may become permanently contaminated with who knows what.
>
> >
>
> > The cage rabbits have remained free of health issues, although they do not
>
> > enjoy any socialization, naps in the sun, nibbles of green leaves, or the
>
> > pleasure of digging burrows.
>
> >
>
> > How are your colonies working?  How do you address disease and parasite
>
> > issues? Is there a deworming rotation that you use, as you would with
>
> > other livestock.
>
> >
>
> > Jeanne
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------ --------- --------- ------
>
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>

I have a buck that has never lived on his own. We sold his pen mate and now he
won't eat or drink. I have brought him into the house, his favorite place, yet
still he sulks. Has anyone else had this happen when thier rabbits become single
living and away from thier friends? This rabbit won't even eat his favorite
foods... Im getting worried.

I deworm all the critters with Ivermectin after 1st frost of Fall.  And, again
in early spring.  All, except these 4 week old bunnies.  I have used Pancure
liquid with them in the past, and even with the ones released into colony.  I
dewormed them every day for a week, like you do when you "Power Pac" a new
horse, to clean them out.  If it worked, it did not last as long as it used to. 
Now, anything over 2 months is done with Ivermec.

But, how early can I deworm kits, or is it necessary if they are nursing and mom
is dewormed?  I was thinking of making a "milkshake" with one tube and measured
amount of water or goat milk so that I could give about ½ cc per bun.  Has
anyone tried this?  Is it possible to OD them …I mean, it will be difficult to
be precise using a tube of wormer that is designed for a 1200 LB animal, not a 1
LB animal. Also, does anyone rotate dewormers, like you do with other animals? 
Is one or the other dewormer better depending on time of year? My concern would
be that using one dewormer every 30 days might eventually cause resistance, as
is the case with things Piperazine, Strongid, and Panacur. I can't afford to
send off samples to the vet every month, so I am just playing a guessing game on
the dewormer use right now.

I have used the lime for years in all my critter areas to cut down on smell and
dampness.  I didn't know it also cleaned and added calcium to the soil. It makes
sense that changing the PH would have an effect on bacteria present.  More
reasons to keep using it.

If I have this correct, "Rabbit VD" or "hutch burn", may likely spread quicker
on the ground.  It isn't necessarily caused by sex, although that is the most
common way to spread it to all your cage rabbits.  It is when bacteria (as in,
on the ground, or dirty corner of cage) gets onto red, irritated, or raw skin
areas…like genitals.  It can spread quickly to the mouth from licking or to a
mama's kits, or other ways and areas, just use your imagination.  It can also be
cured in a week or two with antibiotics and isolation from other rabbits.

Jeanne

Ok I finely got the photos to post. They are of a 20x20 pen, this is where I
have 3 does now. It will hold about 4 with out over crowding. Rabbits create
more poop then one would think so for cleanliness in the wet weather periods I
try to keep numbers way down in the pens. I won't even breed until Feb this year
and that is only because I want older animals for Nationals in 2010. Other wise
I would wait until after spring rains.
The 6x6 on the front porch holds 2 animals very well and would hold 3 easy. The
reason being its dry all year round and I can keep it very clean.
Kurt and I are planning to use my old bison pen ( As Dawson is now passed) for a
play ground of sorts for the rabbits. We are still in the design faze, but very
excited. It will be over 200 feet of fence line with hutches in "stories"
literally bunny apartments where the ground as well as upper levels are used to
create more space, a dryer area over all and give the rabbits lots to do. As you
know they do get board and thats when trouble starts. This will allow them to
jump, climb, play and stay with in a compound that is hot wired on top and
bottom for predators. we are talking about netting the top due to a high hawk
population, however like I said... still in the design faze. we will start on it
this spring. We can't wait.
Jauson

One thing I hear over and over is that the rabbits that live in colony groups
don't grow the same. It is true that wet seasons and cold/heat can be worse on
an animal then one in an air conditioned or heated barn. I would like to state
for the record that colony rabbits can and do win at shows, ABRA shows not
county fairs. As the generations go on they also develop resistance to the
things that effect the first generation. Im now starting with 5 newbies, and
will gladly sell them off when my F2s arrive as they will be more hardy.
I personally think its all in the feed. Has anyone else shown their colony
rabbits? what was your findings? and what breed?

Have you tired Ivomec, this will cure about all of the worm troubles and you
will always have worm issues with rabbits on the ground.
As for the bots, we have them too, however I worm every 30 days, so its not
the problem one would think.
I also have to say this.. and I hate to... I have the same luck with sheep.
My neighbors have wonderful herds of bouncing lambs every spring, I have
dead sheep with in weeks of purchase... some people just don't get along
with something's.... you may want to try some things that will help you..
and if that doesn't work.. rabbits may be your sheep.
Try to put sweet lime on the ground.. this sterilizes it as well as gives
calcium to the diet,. don't put the bucks and does together, hand breed and
examine your animals before you do. Make sure they are VD free, then breed.
don't breed more then one doe per day per buck and see how that goes.
Worm like a new religion. Rabbits can also use the cat version of Advantage
if you have the money for that sort of thing.
I wish you all the luck in the world.

----- Original Message -----
From: "jeannee1988" <jeannee1988@...>
To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:17 AM
Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Dealing with diseases of colony raised
rabbits


> Hi everyone, I am new to group and curious about how your colonies are
> working out.  Mine have not been very successful.
>
> How you address common diseases and parasites that take up with rabbits
> kept on the ground?  I live in Georgia and I have attempted colony style
> raising 3 times and ended up having to kill all the rabbits after a short
> period when they became diseased. Problems included things like Mucoid
> enteritis, Coccidia, Syphillus, and extremely nasty bot flys (wolves)
> parasites which will eat the rabbit from the inside out as the worm grows.
>
> At first all looked well, after social structure was established.  Dens
> were dug, they got along happily, and loved to run and play in the sun.
> It was interesting to observe colony behavior.  The first year I had 5
> females and a male.  They ended up with Syphillis.  It worked well for a
> about 3 months.  All the bunnies died from that herd, from then on, even
> after I removed them from the colony, dewormed them, treated with
> antibiotics, and put them back in caqes.  Bunnies never survived past
> weaning age and there was no cure, nor reason was found for the enteritis
> symptoms that killed them. So they were all destroyed. All the cages
> cleaned and bleached and ready to start over.
>
> The following year I released my fryer rabbits, in one location, and
> healthy culled females in another, all of whom I planned to butcher in a
> few weeks anyway. This habitat had NO Grass, because I have become
> convinced that grass, as well as hay, kills by upsetting intestinal flora,
> whether via mold spores, fructose levels, or whatever from numerous
> incidents over the years. We feed a high fiber rabbit pellet only. So, it
> was set up so that there was plenty of dry areas to stay in and clean dirt
> to dig where no other animals had been in a long time.  There was plenty
> of space so I would not have to clean as often.
>
> Within 2 - 3 weeks, I had serious problems. They ALL ended up with
> intestinal problems, parasites, and 90% succumbed to muciod enteritis in a
> matter of about 3 days after the first victim started to show signs of
> dehydration.  Anything under 3 months old died very quickly.
>
> The adult colony fared little better.  They were attacked by bot flys
> which is a long slow painfull death sentence.  Unfortunately, I did not
> realize how infected they were until I butchered.  All of these rabbits
> had to be destroyed as I will not take the risk of putting them back in
> cages that may become permanently contaminated with who knows what.
>
> The cage rabbits have remained free of health issues, although they do not
> enjoy any socialization, naps in the sun, nibbles of green leaves, or the
> pleasure of digging burrows.
>
> How are your colonies working?  How do you address disease and parasite
> issues? Is there a deworming rotation that you use, as you would with
> other livestock.
>
> Jeanne
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

You can also see photos on my website. Im just now setting it up so please
bear with it for now. Its at www.pet-rabbit.net and the photos are on the
housing link. The rabbit on that page is a Sandy. My last Sandys were
replaced this past summer.
There are many photos of Ivy on that site as I had her so long.
I will try and see what's up with the photo album on yahoo too.
Nice to know another Flemish breeder that's into colony raising.
Jauson
----- Original Message -----
From: "laughaha" <laughaha@...>
To: <colonyraisingrabbits@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 3:00 PM
Subject: [colonyraisingrabbits] Re: Introduction


>
>
> Hi Jausen!
>
> I also raise Flemmy's, but I raise Sandies, hope to get blues soon.  I
> tried to see your pics (as I've been thinking of doing a similar setup)
> but they are not showing up?  I would really love to see your setup.
>
>

Hi Jausen!

I also raise Flemmy's, but I raise Sandies, hope to get blues soon.  I tried to
see your pics (as I've been thinking of doing a similar setup) but they are not
showing up?  I would really love to see your setup.

Hi everyone, I am new to group and curious about how your colonies are working
out.  Mine have not been very successful.

How you address common diseases and parasites that take up with rabbits kept on
the ground?  I live in Georgia and I have attempted colony style raising 3 times
and ended up having to kill all the rabbits after a short period when they
became diseased. Problems included things like Mucoid enteritis, Coccidia,
Syphillus, and extremely nasty bot flys (wolves) parasites which will eat the
rabbit from the inside out as the worm grows.

At first all looked well, after social structure was established.  Dens were
dug, they got along happily, and loved to run and play in the sun.  It was
interesting to observe colony behavior.  The first year I had 5 females and a
male.  They ended up with Syphillis.  It worked well for a about 3 months.  All
the bunnies died from that herd, from then on, even after I removed them from
the colony, dewormed them, treated with antibiotics, and put them back in caqes.
Bunnies never survived past weaning age and there was no cure, nor reason was
found for the enteritis symptoms that killed them. So they were all destroyed.
All the cages cleaned and bleached and ready to start over.

The following year I released my fryer rabbits, in one location, and healthy
culled females in another, all of whom I planned to butcher in a few weeks
anyway. This habitat had NO Grass, because I have become convinced that grass,
as well as hay, kills by upsetting intestinal flora, whether via mold spores,
fructose levels, or whatever from numerous incidents over the years. We feed a
high fiber rabbit pellet only. So, it was set up so that there was plenty of dry
areas to stay in and clean dirt to dig where no other animals had been in a long
time.  There was plenty of space so I would not have to clean as often.

Within 2 - 3 weeks, I had serious problems. They ALL ended up with intestinal
problems, parasites, and 90% succumbed to muciod enteritis in a matter of about
3 days after the first victim started to show signs of dehydration.  Anything
under 3 months old died very quickly.

The adult colony fared little better.  They were attacked by bot flys which is a
long slow painfull death sentence.  Unfortunately, I did not realize how
infected they were until I butchered.  All of these rabbits had to be destroyed
as I will not take the risk of putting them back in cages that may become
permanently contaminated with who knows what.

The cage rabbits have remained free of health issues, although they do not enjoy
any socialization, naps in the sun, nibbles of green leaves, or the pleasure of
digging burrows.

How are your colonies working?  How do you address disease and parasite issues?
Is there a deworming rotation that you use, as you would with other livestock.

Jeanne

"Jacky" wrote (Sept 22):
> Now I have entered a Contest that proposes an approach
>to involve the rural community to partner with the colony
>farm. Project description and forum for "The Ndekero
>Challenge: A Systems Approach for Rabbit Keeping by a Rural
>Community in Partnership with a Commercial Rabbit Farm" is
>available at http://arc.peacecorpsconnect.org/view/653
> I seek your help ....... your vote.

Hi Everyone

GOOD NEWS
"The Ndekero Challenge" project idea has won 1st Place in Round 4 of the Africa
Rural Connect Competition! $3,000 will be awarded towards the implementation of
this project.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR SUPPORT AND ENDORSEMENT OF THE PROJECT, AND THE
WINNING IS ALL BECAUSE OF YOU.

Join me to celebrate this happy moment and to pray for the next and final round
which can ensure the first rabbit colony farm in Kenya and that aims to produce
at least 100 rabbits per month.

WHAT'S NEXT:
The top 20 of the 40 Round Winners will be nominated to the final round for a
chance to win the $20,000 grand prize. The Grand Prize winner will be selected
by ARC's Panel of Judges and the winner will be announced in early December.
:-))

+++++jf
http://www.globetree.org/africa/rabbit-net

Hello everyone. We are Kurt and Jauson (yes Im a girl LOL) We raise Flemish
Giants of the light gray variety. I posted some photos of our pens. The colony
pens are 20x20 with hutch type housing so that space is not wasted. The 6x6 pens
are still communal living but are close to the house and only hold 2 rabbits. We
use those for sick bays or for new rabbits we want to quarantine or observation
pens. We do have 4x8 hutches for kitting.
Our feed pans are the large auto feeders you get for about 25.00 at any pet
store and the water bowls are just large dog bowls. We don't use auto waterer's
so we can clean them more frequently.
Litters are segregated at weaning in pens of female and male, until they can be
sold.
We clean the pens via sweet lime and fire in rotation. We also allow pens to
"rest" Iowa is very wet, so rock is brought in every spring to help with the mud
issues in the pens and aid in cleanliness.
I joined this group in hopes of learning how you all manage your colony pens and
learn new tricks.

Jauson

We are accepting deposits on a litter of Maremma lgd with delivery runs
planning for early December, or pickup at the farm gate.  They are born
in the barn with our best working Maremma, and are exposed to a wide
variety of livestock from camelids to cows, dairy goats to sheep,
horses, poultry and waterfowl.  We also have a pair of neutered males
that can go separately or as a team who are over 2.5 years old and
experienced working dogs ready to step into any current predation
situation if needed.

Our dogs are available to working homes with livestock to watch over.
For more information email me at springsberry@... or send your phone
number and the best time(s) to call and I'll try to hit one of those
times!  (For me it's usually about noonish or evenings through the week,
weekends are hit or miss.)

Laura

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07:40:00

Another update, if anyone is interested LOL!

I have started taking measures where I am giving them shelters that have
waterproof bottoms on them and it is going to make the difference.  I have a few
barrels that I can cut holes in and they can use them for shelter.  It is going
to work out a lot better.

Lindy