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#7204 From: RACEYBLU78@...
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:12 am
Subject: Re: shampoo leshcindy40
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Fleas carry tapeworms. I, for one, only use Frontline on my dog.

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#7203 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:30 am
Subject: Re: was Aggressive pug; now free pet supplies and other items lillygreenfield
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There are "free-cycle" groups all over the US. I "belong" to the local group. When You get, it's good; when You give, it's BETTER than good !!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Donna :-)

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...> wrote:

From: Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] was Aggressive pug; now free pet supplies and other items
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 3:03 PM

Kayleena wrote:

my Furnature is ruined, but i have no money to keep replacing carpet, & furnature, so we no longer have guests.

Do you know about the Yahoo group, Freecycle? Free furniture! (And dog supplies.) I have seen everything offered from bags of potatoes to cars. When I posted it in my newsletter a couple years ago, a reader wrote telling me she got everything she needed for her new puppy: crate, leash, food bowl, brush, toys. I personally have gotten bags of toys for my Doberman and have given away brand new leather leashes and almost-new no-pulll harnesses. I even gave away a free "Go Around" lesson. It's not charity. It is a Yahoo community where everyone gives unwanted items away free to the others. It is really amazing. Check it out: http://www.freecycle.org/

Tori

www.BetterBestFriends.net

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#7202 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:16 am
Subject: Re: Re: Dog Food!! lillygreenfield
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Wendy, You've got it! Price and advertising mean nothing. Read the labels, but don't, necessarily believe the labels. Above all....pay attention to the dogs!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Donna :-)

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Wendy Lunko <kippeeelvis@...> wrote:

From: Wendy Lunko <kippeeelvis@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re: Dog Food!!
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 1:32 PM

My general thoughts on dog food:

Supermarket food usually isn't the best. You want a food that lists meat as its first ingredient.

Really expensive food isn't always the best either. While it may be a high quality, it may not have what your dog needs. It may technically have what "dogs" need, but may be lacking in something that your dog specifically needs. Good example is that we just switched from Nutro Natural Choice to Nutro Ultra (their ultra holistic line). While both dogs eat it and enjoy it, the one now has dandruff. He didn't while we were feeding Nutro Natural Choice, but since we've switched, it's started. I'm guessing that it's missing an oil of some sort or has a lower level of an oil compared to Natural Choice.

Take your time, do some research, and look at what your dog enjoys eating and their overall health on the food.

Wendy

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#7201 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:34 pm
Subject: Re: Re: maybe a little OT... not really! lillygreenfield
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Del, thank You; You're very kind, and it's a good suggestion for many. However, I've tried the "scissors method," and find it easier to "unwind" the hair than to "pick out" all the little pieces. Joe, like many of the long-haired "northern-bred" dogs, has a "double coat." His outer-coat is about three inches, or so, and "oily." His under-coat is about one inch, or so, VERY "fine," and not oily. (The oily outer-coat is to shed water; the fine under-coat is to keep in body-heat.) If I cut it, I have to pick all of it out because the oily part sticks to the brushes. If I "unwind" it, most of the under-coat comes out with the outer-coat, and what's left of the under-coat goes ahead and gets sucked into the vacuum cleaner.

I'm just looking for a vacuum cleaner that'll let me be a bit lazy. lol

Be well

Donna :-)

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, dogshirtstore@... <dogshirtstore@...> wrote:

From: dogshirtstore@... <dogshirtstore@...>
Subject: Re: [domorefordogs] Re: maybe a little OT... not really!
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 8:30 PM

Have you tried slicing through the hairs with a pair of scissors, in between
the bristles? Then pulling out the pieces? It might be easier than
"unwinding".

Del Aitchison

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#7200 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:34 am
Subject: Re: fleas lillygreenfield
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"BUGS" DON'T LIKE LEMON !

Donna :-)

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...> wrote:

From: Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] fleas
To: "1 Do More For Dogs" <domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 3:12 PM

Karen wrote:

Frontline can say whatever they want to say. They have a product to sell. I
still believe its harmful to out pets and I prefer not to use it.

I ask this: Why use drugs and chemicals on our dogs when there are natural ways to control fleas? I have never in my 52 years put any kind of flea control chemical or drug on or into any of my dogs and don't plan to ever do so. All I am asking is, why jump onto a drug without even trying natural methods? Most would answer: "Because I didn't know there was an alternative."

Tori

www.BetterBestFriends.net

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#7199 From: RACEYBLU78@...
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:20 am
Subject: Re:was Aggressive pug; now free pet supplies and other items leshcindy40
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Freecycle is a great group! I lost basically all I had in a house fire, and most of what I have now is from Freecycle. Many pet supplies on there! Some will even trade! Check it out!

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#7198 From: RACEYBLU78@...
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:15 am
Subject: Re: I have an Aggressive( towards my� other dog) Pug leshcindy40
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This sounds like a dominance issue to me!

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#7197 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:02 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shy timid clingy puppy and some other behavior im worried about... lillygreenfield
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ps to hunddee

It's nice to leave part of the post to which You're replying, so others will know what You're talking about?

Donna :-)

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, hunddee@... <hunddee@...> wrote:

From: hunddee@... <hunddee@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re: Shy timid clingy puppy and some other behavior im worried about...
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 5:47 PM

Hi Bill, sounds like you are doing everything just right. My Sheria was already 2 years old when she came here and she was convinced that she was a little girl. It took a whole year for her to even start sniffing things outside. Today she is a real dog that just happens to like to be brushed. There is hope! Yours is so little, let it grow up before you start fixing things that might go away all by themselves! Loving her now will assure her and make whatever fears she has more controlable. I know that folk will tell you you have to be firm and all that, yeah, when she starts exibiting behavior that is destructive or unacceptable.
It sounds to me like she is just being a baby, what exactly is wrong with that?

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#7196 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:39 am
Subject: Re: Re: Dog Food!! lillygreenfield
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I don't know who You meant with that post. I DO know that I, quite often, feel like "slapping myself up-side the head." lol

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Donna :-)

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, hunddee@... <hunddee@...> wrote:

From: hunddee@... <hunddee@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re: Dog Food!!
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 3:24 PM

Excellent point - never thought about it that way, but OMG you are so right. Even if you mix dry and wet food (and a lot of people add hot water to dry food) it gets soft. Sometimes the obvious gets overlooked ... I feel like slapping my forehead - duh!
Dee

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#7195 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:25 am
Subject: Re: Re: shampoo lillygreenfield
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OK. Get a tube of it for Your weight, then put it between Your shoulder-blades at the back Your neck, and at the base of Your tail-bone? lol

Be well

Donna :-)

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, jojogal001 <jodymail@...> wrote:

From: jojogal001 <jodymail@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re: shampoo
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 6:48 PM

Actually, the top spot flea treatments are oil based. When put on between the shoulder blades, it is designed to distribute over the skin. It does not get into the blood stream. The whole idea of the top spot treatments, were to STOP these poisons from being IN the dog's system. It does not get into the bloodstream. There is a new PILL out now, called Comfortis, which obviously DOES get in the blood stream. Top spot treatments, however, are not absorbed into the blood stream

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#7194 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:57 am
Subject: Re: Re: lillygreenfield
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Where food is concerned, maybe I don't see it as many do. I've sent my kids to school with ground-hog (or woodchuck, whichever You care to call them) sandwiches. The critter was ruining the tomatoes, so my husband (now ex) killed him, and I don't believe in "waste." The other kids didn't believe my kids, and some tasted, but still wouldn't believe them; it tasted too good to be something like (Yuucchh!!) "ground-hog."   lol

Alcohol can be fun, but not to be used "in excess." Baby food - Well, I never gave my babies "baby-food." Caffeine? It's about the same as alcohol, so far as I'm concerned, but our society "pushes" caffeine because it increases "productivity." (I wonder how many cases of "road rage" are caused by caffeine?) Cat food is not for dogs; cats are true carnivores and need much more meat protein than dogs; too much protein is bad for the dogs. Mushrooms; depends on WHAT KIND of mushrooms. ;-) (Sorry 'bout that; just HAD to do it. lol) Actually, mushrooms, of most kinds, aren't usually well-digested, anyway. Grapes? I think it, probably, depends on the breed. Chi's, eating as they wish, eat grapes along with a lot of other fruits. Just to be "safe," I don't give them grapes. (I only like black grapes, and very few of those, anyway.) Raisins? Have no idea because I think I'd rather starve to death than to eat raisins. (Have never had them in the house, so don't know if the dogs would like them or not.) Marijuana? I never found any attraction in that, so don't know about the dogs. I DO KNOW that it makes people stupid, and why would I want to make a dog stupid? Have no idea about the Macadamia nuts. Have a disagreement about onions and garlic. Don't think I could cook well without either, and the dogs have always eaten my cooking - thriving on it, as did my children. (Perhaps it's a matter of amount and/or combination?) I LOVE raw zucchini; so does my Newf Dog; the Chi's and cat have no interest in it, whatsoever. I don't think the zucchini is "natural" for the Newf, so won't give him much.

"Animal by-products." That's one of my "favorite gripes." What are "animal by-products" ?? Has anyone noticed that, as livers, gizzards, tripe, etc., have been "going up" in price, and/or just plain disappearing, in the grocery stores, the dog-food prices have been "going up" ?? The "innards" are "animal by-products." The bones, hooves, ears, fat, etc., one used to get "for free" are, now, almost nonexistent for people. They're "animal by-products." (There ARE some "specialty" organs, like "sweet-breads," that go to "high-priced restaurants.")

Now, those who want to be "picky," are going to ask about feathers. Feathers are almost pure keratin (hope I spelled that correctly) and some protein. They're "pressure-cooked" along with the bones in order to be digestible.

NO, I don't work for a dog-food company. I don't trust the dog-food companies, so I pay attention to the dogs.

DAVID, a lot of kennel breeders "swear by" Iams because it produces less poop to clean up. It's just more fat and less fiber. That's good for a highly-active dog; not so good for a "couch-potato" house-dog. I know one man who breeds and trains bird-dogs; he's, also a "hunting guide." He feeds his dogs Iams and kitchen-scraps. I knew another who trained cattle-dogs who are, of course, more active than the bird-dogs. He'd feed the dogs he was training as the owners wanted, but fed his own dogs - he always said he'd rather have one good dog than five men on horse-back (MO Ozarks, cattle and pigs raised out in the woods) - cheap dog-food and kitchen-scraps. (I said "knew" because he died about five years ago; a couple of his sons have it now, and are doing the same.) The dogs live long, active and happy lives.

Don't know 'bout You, but I envy those dogs.

The "dark sick shadow" You mentioned is on all of us, no matter how many legs we have. All we can do is to do all we can do....

Be well

Donna    :-)



--- On Wed, 12/23/09, David Reiners <davidreiners80@...> wrote:

From: David Reiners <davidreiners80@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re:
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 6:12 AM

That Wilderness Catch stuff is good food as well as far as I can see. I have also heard of and seen the Timberwolf and blu buffalo brands. There is a lot of choices out there and with age, breed, size and health to consider it takes some thought to find the best one. I guess I just felt way behind the times and a bit stupid for not knowing or being aware about it sooner. Being I love my dogs very much it made me sad to think about all the years I fed them Iams and Hill's when I was uneducated in exactly the way the market wanted me to be. It just really makes me feel foolish and mad at my self knowing the things I do now. And it's easy to place blame toward the companies :). I am sure there are many other things in life I am unaware of outside the topic of dog food. Let's not get into that lol. Staying on topic I am no food expert so I was really glad to see people adding to my knowledge of this topic. Here are some thing you should not feed your dog, alcohol (obviously), baby food, cat food, coffee and tea, mushrooms, grapes and raisins, Macadamia nuts, marijuana (duh), onions and garlic to name a few of them. There are exceptions to bones etc etc.. I also read that message about the price and the longevity of better quality food. And just recently switching I have noticed that a 30 pound bag (Inovva what I get) has already lasted considerable longer than a 40 some odd pound of the stuff I used to get (Science Diet) I have already noticed differences for the better too. You can really see the difference just from comparing with sight. So yeah the dog food industry is a dark sick shadow of the human food industry. Most dog food companies are owned by food corps and is a good means for them to capitalize on there waste products that are not suitable or legal for human use. I started this topic in hopes that a couple people might learn as I did only a few months before I joined this group. Or in my case shocked!! But I have already told many people and my brothers and sister have already switched!!

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#7193 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:00 am
Subject: Re: Beside myself lillygreenfield
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The "Power of Water," just a little squirt in the face, is AMAZING! It doesn't require a squirt-gun; just a standard kitchen "squirt-bottle," set on "stream," not "spray," can do a lot. We call it "The ACME Cat-Killer." (Road-runner cartoons. lol)

Make a sound (doesn't really matter what sound, but keep it consistent) when You squirt it. Before long, the "critter" will associate the sound with a squirt of water, and STOP when You make the sound.

I don't have much experience with ShihTzu's, but it'd be a "good try" with an "incorrigible" dog like the one described.

WISHING EVERYONE A MERRY CHRISTMAS!

Donna

--- On Wed, 12/23/09, David K <lesliesfather@...> wrote:

From: David K <lesliesfather@...>
Subject: Re: [domorefordogs] Beside myself
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 23, 2009, 11:02 PM

Hi Kathy,

I just pick one of the two of them up and separate them. Gotta be kinda gutsy though. squirt them with a water pistol.

I have been to several classes lately. I think you can use choke (pinch) collars on tzus if they are put on correctly. I think they are a good tool to be used in training classes only. I would avoid shock collars on tzus though.

Find a dog trainer you like. That is very important.

Someone else mentioned it might be a medical problem. That is possible. I would wonder about both dogs having a problem though at the same time?

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#7192 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:19 am
Subject: Re: Re: Dog Food!! lillygreenfield
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Sue, as You know, I'm not a vet; just a trainer. All I know is from experience.

I have a lot of allergy problems, but don't buy "brand name" products for it. I read the labels, and buy the "generic" products. The only difference is that I'm not paying for the "brand name" ADVERTISING.

It's the same with canned-goods. Read the labels. Many of the "brand names" are made by the same companies, at the same factories, as the "generic."

OK, read the labels (and/or do some research, which I've already done) on dog "products." You'll find that they're, mostly, made by the same companies, in the same factories, in the same way, usually all at the same time. They're just packaged differently.

Science Diet, Purina or whatever "generic" dog foods....well, read the labels. (I don't know what the label laws are in the UK, but in the US, the most is supposed to be at the top of the list, and the least is supposed to be at the bottom; everything else in between top and bottom is supposed to be according to percentage.) Don't know about You, but I don't care to pay for advertising (Oh, please excuse? That should be "advertisements," shouldn't it? lol).

Please "make note" that I said "supposed to be." Drugs to dog food....I don't trust the companies, so I "keep a close watch." (i.e. Too much poop for the amount of food eaten equals not well-digestible food, etc....)

Yup, used to be one could get a piece of lard or tallow to "season" a cast-iron skillet, dog bones, etc., "for free." Now, I'm not even sure one can breathe "for free" in many areas. (And I'm just talking about the US.)

I'm "socked in," too, for the next few days. It's "raining ice." Literally; freezing rain. You know I live in SW Missouri US; the weather can be a bit "strange" here sometimes. (Temp dropped from about 40 degrees to about 15 degrees [F] in about an hour.) Not going to be able to get to my mother's house in Oklahoma for Christmas, but we're used to "moving dates around," so it's OK. (CHRISTMAS doesn't HAVE TO BE on the 25th of December. CHRISTMAS is whenever the family can get together.)

We "saw it coming," and I'm well-stocked with dog-food, cat-food and people-food, plus fire-wood, candles and a full tank of gas in my car. The freezing rain can build ice on the electric and phone lines, and "take them out." If that happens, I'll "have a party" because all who know me know there's warmth and they're welcome. They'll bring whatever they can. With a "good attitude," even a "bad time" can be a "good time." And, whatever the weather, I can cuddle up with two Chi's under the covers, a Newf Dog on my toes, and a cat at my neck. LOL

I WISH YOU A MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Be well

Donna ;-)

ps Poppy needs more meat protein than Hannah does.



--- On Tue, 12/22/09, t.susan40 <Taylos1@...> wrote:

From: t.susan40 <Taylos1@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re: Dog Food!!
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 10:27 PM

Dear all,
I come late to this thread, so apologies if someone has already asked this question, but how do you really know what is in dog food? I feed my dog (Hannah) dry food, partly because it is good for her teeth and partly because it is what she was used to eating in the rescue centre. I have noticed the huge price range between the different foods, but does price really determine what is a good food?

Years ago we used to go to the butcher and ask for old marrow bones and sheeps ears for our dogs and we certainly didn't spend any money on chews and specially prepared bones. Then we were told not to do that because of BSE. I can

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#7191 From: "Lona" <lonaholm@...>
Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 12:03 am
Subject: Re: Re: girltahoma
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Kirkland was recalled at one point.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/diamond.asp

And you might want to check this too.

http://www.snopes.com/critters/crusader/menu.asp

Menu foods manufactures a host of different pet foods, which most of them have faced recall at one point.

Lona

www.Animal-Healings.com

Just an FYI:

<<< Kirkland ( its just a Costco brand - $21 for a 40# bag!) he was excited and said "oh, the good stuff"! So if you dont want to spend $40 a bag>>

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#7190 From: "Frances" <funkydiva40@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:01 pm
Subject: Dogs and garlic funkydiva40
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Hello everyone,

I'm new to the group and I've noticed the debate on Frontline.  I have a
question to present.  Do you think garlic is bad for dogs?  I put my first fur
baby down in 2008.  She was a Shepherd/Retriever mix and 19 1/2 years old.  The
only health problems she had were arthritis and bed wetting.  She had garlic in
her meal her entire life.  In a recent discussion I was told garlic is bad for
dogs.  Has anyone here had good/bad experience from garlic?

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#7189 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:05 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Shy timid clingy puppy and some other behavior im worried about... lillygreenfield
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AND an "adoptee" is far different from a puppy.

Donn

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, hunddee@... <hunddee@...> wrote:

From: hunddee@... <hunddee@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] Re: Shy timid clingy puppy and some other behavior im worried about...
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 5:47 PM

Hi Bill, sounds like you are doing everything just right. My Sheria was already 2

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#7188 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:57 pm
Subject: Re: fence jumpers lillygreenfield
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It looks like the the inward-slanting fence extensions. To my experience, it doesn't cost much, and it works.

Donna

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, Sandra Smith <geezidpls1@...> wrote:

From: Sandra Smith <geezidpls1@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] fence jumpers
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 5:06 PM

For all of your fence jumpers.

I do not know if this works or not. I found it online. Just passing it along:

http://picasaweb.google.com/wnpatrod/20090227FenceLeanersForJumpers?authkey=Gv1sRgCKaz48jWgfLVPg#

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#7187 From: Frances Henderson <funkydiva40@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 9:36 pm
Subject: Re: fleas funkydiva40
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Tori, what do and/or have you used for fleas?

I ask this: Why use drugs and chemicals on our dogs when there are natural ways to control fleas? I have never in my 52 years put any kind of flea control chemical or drug on or into any of my dogs and don't plan to ever do so. All I am asking is, why jump onto a drug without even trying natural methods? Most would answer: "Because I didn't know there was an alternative. "

Tori

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...> wrote:

From: Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] fleas
To: "1 Do More For Dogs" <domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 3:12 PM

Karen wrote:

Frontline can say whatever they want to say. They have a product to sell. I
still believe its harmful to out pets and I prefer not to use it.

I ask this: Why use drugs and chemicals on our dogs when there are natural ways to control fleas? I have never in my 52 years put any kind of flea control chemical or drug on or into any of my dogs and don't plan to ever do so. All I am asking is, why jump onto a drug without even trying natural methods? Most would answer: "Because I didn't know there was an alternative. "

Tori

www.BetterBestFrien ds.net

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#7186 From: cynthia smith <ihaveadream7777@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: fleas ihaveadream7777
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HMM...........OK, Now I was directed to your web site it did;nt tell me ANYTHING about the SUBJRCT HEADING, this seemed to mr to be more of a sale's pitch!!

--- On Thu, 12/24/09, Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...> wrote:

From: Free Doggie Tips Newsletter <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...>
Subject: [domorefordogs] fleas
To: "1 Do More For Dogs" <domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 24, 2009, 3:12 PM

Karen wrote:

Frontline can say whatever they want to say. They have a product to sell. I
still believe its harmful to out pets and I prefer not to use it.

I ask this: Why use drugs and chemicals on our dogs when there are natural ways to control fleas? I have never in my 52 years put any kind of flea control chemical or drug on or into any of my dogs and don't plan to ever do so. All I am asking is, why jump onto a drug without even trying natural methods? Most would answer: "Because I didn't know there was an alternative. "

Tori

www.BetterBestFrien ds.net

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#7185 From: Dasha Medley <grinchkin@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:16 pm
Subject: Re: fleas d_d_reinoehl2
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It is your option as a pet owner to do what ever you feel is best your pet. Frontline/advantage/andvantix/comfortis/etc any of the chemicals are available and do work in their own ways. In my 10 years of working in a veterinary clinic I have not personally seen many of the natural methods work well. I am not saying that they don't work and I would never try them or recommend them to clients I have just never had good results with them. I know that they are out there and I am not about to tell you or any one else what they are, because I don't know what they are, but if you want to try the alternative methods that is just up to you. I have never had any issues with any of the above chemical products besides the wrong dosages applied to an animal or mild skin infection at site of application. Where as the animals that have flea allergies only have to have 1 insect bite them and sets off a whole gam it of problems!
Yes fleas are external parasites but they can also cause internal parasites too if they are ingested. They usually cause tapeworms in animals which can be treated with other medication.
I, again, am not saying that you have to use it I just wanted to make sure facts were clear and not have any miscommunications regarding these things. If you choose not to use these medications that is up to you and I am glad that you have never gotten fleas in your home congratulations because they are a pain to get rid of!!!!! What you do use if any of my client want to try natural items as I might be able to give them an alternative?

At 10:12 AM 12/24/2009, you wrote:

Karen wrote:

Frontline can say whatever they want to say. They have a product to sell. I
still believe its harmful to out pets and I prefer not to use it.
I ask this: Why use drugs and chemicals on our dogs when there are natural ways to control fleas? I have never in my 52 years put any kind of flea control chemical or drug on or into any of my dogs and don't plan to ever do so. All I am asking is, why jump onto a drug without even trying natural methods? Most would answer: "Because I didn't know there was an alternative."
Tori
www.BetterBestFriends.net

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#7184 From: Kathy Bell <frosty1444@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 6:00 pm
Subject: Re: Beside myself frosty1444
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Thank you so much for caring enough to write. I will keep you posted on our progress, if any.

Hope you have wonderful Holidays. Kathy

From: David K <lesliesfather@...>
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, December 23, 2009 6:02:55 PM
Subject: Re: [domorefordogs] Beside myself

Hi Kathy,

I just pick one of the two of them up and separate them. Gotta be kinda gutsy though. squirt them with a water pistol.

I have been to several classes lately. I think you can use choke (pinch) collars on tzus if they are put on correctly. I think they are a good tool to be used in training classes only. I would avoid shock collars on tzus though.

Find a dog trainer you like. That is very important.

Someone else mentioned it might be a medical problem. That is possible. I would wonder about both dogs having a problem though at the same time?

You mentioned it might be a discipline/alpha dog thing. That is what is sounds like to me. As fun as the guys are to have, discipline is necessary to everyone knows their place in the household. When the owners are the alpha, the problems go down (not away).

Discipline comes from controlling the things they want. Like food. If they don't behave, don't feed them. Don't worry. I don't think they will starve to death in a day or so. When they get hungry, they will eat. Make sure they have water to drink at all times.

I also believe allowing dogs to sleep with you gives dogs the feeling they are your equal. Kind of hard medicine to swallow.

Some times, tough choices are beneficial in the long run.

You are bathing them and taking them to training. Proves to me you care about them.

Are they getting LOTS of exercise? I think they need at least 30 minutes a day of walking/running. Take them on seperate walks. Sometimes that helps. Look for an off leash park. If you can not find an off leash park, do NOT let them run free.

At two and three years old, this stage should be winding down.

The more I write, the more this problem seems like a training issue to me. You have to be constant with them. Every day try something individually. Maybe just 5 minutes twice a day.

Good luck. It finally worked with us (more or less).

dave

_

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#7183 From: "hunddee@..." <hunddee@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:58 pm
Subject: Re: fence jumpers hunddee...
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--- In domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Smith <geezidpls1@...> wrote:
>
> For all of your fence jumpers
Hi Sandra,
great  pic's and yes, it does work. Amazingly, most fence "jumpers" are actually
climbers and when they hit the top, they can't bend backward enough to get
around the bend. So, they can't get out.
Thanks for sharing, Dee

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#7182 From: "hunddee@..." <hunddee@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:51 pm
Subject: Re: Dog Food!! hunddee...
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Hi Sue,
merry Christ mas to you and yous, too.
You need to read the ingedient list and take it from there.
But to tell the truth, since I started making dog food and now am on the mailing
list for all those suppliers (I don't know how they found me) I get pet food
magazine and all that stuff, you did it right way back when.
Did you know that they have farms where they grow nothing but the ingredients
for pet food? Why would there be a distinction if it was as good as food for
humans? Did you know that they have special equipment to spray "Taste and Smell"
on the dry food? There is a whole science around this. And no, don't trust
advertising. Beneful is one of the most brilliant deceptions in the history of
advertising. All those veggies on the bag. And then the pebbles are red and
green to make you think they resemble peas ad carrots - and we fall for it!
Your dogs were better off with the stuff you used to cook, think about going
back to that.
Hope you find a way to stay warm - Dee

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#7181 From: "Free Doggie Tips Newsletter" <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:03 pm
Subject: was Aggressive pug; now free pet supplies and other items realbetterbe...
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Kayleena wrote:

my Furnature is ruined, but i have no money to keep replacing carpet, & furnature, so we no longer have guests.

Do you know about the Yahoo group, Freecycle? Free furniture! (And dog supplies.) I have seen everything offered from bags of potatoes to cars. When I posted it in my newsletter a couple years ago, a reader wrote telling me she got everything she needed for her new puppy: crate, leash, food bowl, brush, toys. I personally have gotten bags of toys for my Doberman and have given away brand new leather leashes and almost-new no-pulll harnesses. I even gave away a free "Go Around" lesson. It's not charity. It is a Yahoo community where everyone gives unwanted items away free to the others. It is really amazing. Check it out: http://www.freecycle.org/

Tori

www.BetterBestFriends.net

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#7180 From: "Free Doggie Tips Newsletter" <freedoggietipsnewsletter@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:12 pm
Subject: fleas realbetterbe...
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Karen wrote:

Frontline can say whatever they want to say. They have a product to sell. I
still believe its harmful to out pets and I prefer not to use it.

Tori

www.BetterBestFriends.net

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#7179 From: "hunddee@..." <hunddee@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:24 pm
Subject: Re: Dog Food!! hunddee...
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Excellent point - never thought about it that way, but OMG you are so right.
Even if you mix dry and wet food (and a lot of people add hot water to dry food)
it gets soft. Sometimes the obvious gets overlooked ... I feel like slapping my
forehead - duh!
Dee

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#7178 From: "kirstie_mo" <kirstie_mo@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: shampoo kirstie_mo
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Of course everyone should research risks and benefits and decide for themselves,
but it is important to use some product to deter fleas - fleas can not only
cause discomfort, but if your dog eats them, they can cause illness.  My dog got
a parasite, which my vet said was likely from ingesting some fleas.

-kirstie
Moderator, Do More for Dogs

--- In domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com, karretop@... wrote:
>
>
> Frontline can say whatever they want to say. They have a product to sell. I
>  still believe its harmful to out pets and I prefer not to use it.

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#7177 From: Wendy Lunko <kippeeelvis@...>
Date: Thu Dec 24, 2009 1:32 pm
Subject: Re: Dog Food!! kippeeelvis
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My general thoughts on dog food:

Supermarket food usually isn't the best. You want a food that lists meat as its first ingredient.

Really expensive food isn't always the best either. While it may be a high quality, it may not have what your dog needs. It may technically have what "dogs" need, but may be lacking in something that your dog specifically needs. Good example is that we just switched from Nutro Natural Choice to Nutro Ultra (their ultra holistic line). While both dogs eat it and enjoy it, the one now has dandruff. He didn't while we were feeding Nutro Natural Choice, but since we've switched, it's started. I'm guessing that it's missing an oil of some sort or has a lower level of an oil compared to Natural Choice.

Take your time, do some research, and look at what your dog enjoys eating and their overall health on the food.

Wendy

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#7176 From: David K <lesliesfather@...>
Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:02 pm
Subject: Re: Beside myself simplier_life
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_

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#7175 From: Donna Whatever <lillygreenfield@...>
Date: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:49 pm
Subject: Re: Re: Dog Food!! lillygreenfield
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It's always possible for me to be "wrong." Other than vet recommendation, the only "proof" I can give, for sure, is my dogs' and cat's teeth VS the teeth of dogs and cats fed soft foods. (Also, being a "dog-food cruncher" myself for a long time [lol], I can say, definitely, that it's not the same as cereals made for people.) As I've said before, though, I DO supplement their diets because I haven't found any commercial foods I see as being all that good. Working on trying to get some I've seen recommended in here, but that's not easy in this area. Guess I'm going to have to "hit the net"....

Be well

Donna :-)

--- On Tue, 12/22/09, karretop@... <karretop@...> wrote:

From: karretop@... <karretop@...>
Subject: Re: [domorefordogs] Re: Dog Food!!
To: domorefordogs@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 4:27 PM

In a message dated 12/22/2009 6:31:24 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lillygreenfield@... writes:

BOTH need "crunchy dry food" to "clean" the teeth, and keep the mouth healthy.

Ok, I DO take issue with this. My vet told me that once and I asked him to refer me to the study on this. Well, turns out there is no study to uphold this idea. It would be like us eating dry cereal and saying it cleans our teeth. Its ridiculous but it has been perpetrated so long that its accepted by a lot of people. There is no scientific basis for this one at all (if someone has one, please let me know!). I do believe in knuckle bones and thing to chew and I do feed raw veggies such as carrots for teeth health but dry dog food just doesn't clean teeth. Its becomes sticky and gluey when they chew it. So don't buy that little piece of folklore.

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