Hello,

I am just worried about my little boy carl. I posted a message earlier that he
might have an enlarged heart. I am still waiting to hear the results from carl's
xrays from a specialist which my vet gave them to for looking at. Here is my
post I left on a differnt board and I wonder if these things could be indicative
of
a heart problem:

Hello,
Kitty Carl just is not feeling good. We have been through: a shot of penicillin
and two antibiotic perscriptions for URI. He has been doing alot better but
than he came down with a watery eye which did not go away in a few days.
He went to the vet and now we are doing eye medication twice a day. (no
ulcer in the eye, just irritated i guess). He also has had a bit of direaha.
(not
completely runny but not compact... he has eaten and continues to eat fancy
feast and purina pro plan kitten food). He has not thrown up until tonight.
After
running around he puked just a little (the size of 25c quarter) of his dinner he
ate a couple hours prior. (not the whole dinner, just a tiny little bit). Carl
just
saw the vet today for his eye. He did not have a fever. He does have to wear a
silly plate around his head to prevent him from rubbing his eye. It is
definately
not so comfortable and i think the cause for the puke (given it was very small
amount right after play). Carl was pretty tired today after the visit to the
vet. He
did play when he got home, but after that it was eat and sleep all day. He did
get up to eat both of his meals and finished but most of the day was spent
sleeping. He is still gaining weight. He has gained sinsce seeing the vet on
monday ( today is saturday) another 1-1/2oz. He is sleeping more than
normal with short but very active spells of play etc. in between. I have not
heard back on Carls xrays for a possible enlarged heart yet. Should Carl be
feeling like this? He seems to just be under the weather for about a month
now. Different ailments. Does URI just have an evil lingering effect? Carl still
plays, eats, drinks and uses the litter box in a normal fashion. He just can't
seem to feel up to par. He is going to a second vet already (who I feel very
confident in as she seems to take all the right steps I can see). Today she
perscribed an ointment for his eye but did not want to perscribe another
antibiotic. She wanted to see if the eye would heal first with just the ointment
given that Carl did not have a fever. She is also awaiting the answers to Carls
heart xrays from a specialist. I dont know if I should seek other alternative ie
the emergency vet specialists who are very expensive... i do not mind
spending the money if I have too... Carl's condition does not seem critical but
I
do not want to sit around while or if it progresses. it just seems that once one
problem gets better and another arises. Should I call about puke... even in just
a tiny amount or wait and see if it goes away?
Poor little kitty Carl.... He just wants to feel good, be happy, and kick
lenny's
butt:)
Could all of these symptoms combined indicate anything? Does anyone know
if a heart problem could such continued symptoms or allow URI to hang
around longer?
Thanks so much for answering my questions!
Nicole - happy mom of Carl and Lenny

Heart problems can exacerbate many symptoms as the body is weaker than usual.
Antibiotics can screw up the tummy...........will he lap a little natural
yogurt?
Your second vet sounds good..........when are you going back?
If he does have an enlarged heart it will be what has caused it that will
determine what drugs and direction the care they give him takes.
I will keep my fingers crossed for you
Love
Debbie
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: carlrocksandlennytoo
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:44 AM
   Subject: [FH] little carl


   Hello,

   I am just worried about my little boy carl. I posted a message earlier that he
   might have an enlarged heart. I am still waiting to hear the results from
carl's
   xrays from a specialist which my vet gave them to for looking at. Here is my
   post I left on a differnt board and I wonder if these things could be
indicative of
   a heart problem:

   Hello,
   Kitty Carl just is not feeling good. We have been through: a shot of
penicillin
   and two antibiotic perscriptions for URI. He has been doing alot better but
   than he came down with a watery eye which did not go away in a few days.
   He went to the vet and now we are doing eye medication twice a day. (no
   ulcer in the eye, just irritated i guess). He also has had a bit of direaha.
(not
   completely runny but not compact... he has eaten and continues to eat fancy
   feast and purina pro plan kitten food). He has not thrown up until tonight.
After
   running around he puked just a little (the size of 25c quarter) of his dinner
he
   ate a couple hours prior. (not the whole dinner, just a tiny little bit). Carl
just
   saw the vet today for his eye. He did not have a fever. He does have to wear a
   silly plate around his head to prevent him from rubbing his eye. It is
definately
   not so comfortable and i think the cause for the puke (given it was very small
   amount right after play). Carl was pretty tired today after the visit to the
vet. He
   did play when he got home, but after that it was eat and sleep all day. He did
   get up to eat both of his meals and finished but most of the day was spent
   sleeping. He is still gaining weight. He has gained sinsce seeing the vet on
   monday ( today is saturday) another 1-1/2oz. He is sleeping more than
   normal with short but very active spells of play etc. in between. I have not
   heard back on Carls xrays for a possible enlarged heart yet. Should Carl be
   feeling like this? He seems to just be under the weather for about a month
   now. Different ailments. Does URI just have an evil lingering effect? Carl
still
   plays, eats, drinks and uses the litter box in a normal fashion. He just can't
   seem to feel up to par. He is going to a second vet already (who I feel very
   confident in as she seems to take all the right steps I can see). Today she
   perscribed an ointment for his eye but did not want to perscribe another
   antibiotic. She wanted to see if the eye would heal first with just the
ointment
   given that Carl did not have a fever. She is also awaiting the answers to
Carls
   heart xrays from a specialist. I dont know if I should seek other alternative
ie
   the emergency vet specialists who are very expensive... i do not mind
   spending the money if I have too... Carl's condition does not seem critical
but I
   do not want to sit around while or if it progresses. it just seems that once
one
   problem gets better and another arises. Should I call about puke... even in
just
   a tiny amount or wait and see if it goes away?
   Poor little kitty Carl.... He just wants to feel good, be happy, and kick
lenny's
   butt:)
   Could all of these symptoms combined indicate anything? Does anyone know
   if a heart problem could such continued symptoms or allow URI to hang
   around longer?
   Thanks so much for answering my questions!
   Nicole - happy mom of Carl and Lenny


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you so much Carol
The pred seems to be really benefitting her and she is walking freely and amazed
that she can do so!
It is also making her hungrier, which is great!
We are going for quality of life rather than just longevity and as I write this
she sure looks happy and comfortable.
Thanks again
Much love
Debbie and Treacle (Purrrrrrrrrr)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Carol Thompson
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:37 PM
   Subject: Re: [FH] Update on Treacle


   Debbie, I was SO glad to hear that Treacle has had a better day today!  May
she have many, many more!

   Just wanted to offer you some of my experiences that relate to yours with
Treacle in case they might help.

   First, the pred.  My first cat Blizzard was on prednisolone for several years
to alleviate the pain of his arthritis and did well on it -- he lived to be 18
and a half.  It was a conscious decision, like yours, in favor of quality of
life.  And it even perked up his appetite!

   As far as lumps, Blizzard had a lump the size of a large pea on his chin for
years.  It just sat there and didn't cause any problems.  Recently I found a
similar size lump on my cat Clipsie's chest in the skin just in front of her
legs.  Took her to the vet -- he said it was very superficial and just to keep
an eye on it.  What I am trying to say is that lumps don't necessarily mean
panic time.

   And finally, Fentanyl patches for pain.  When my cat Max had knee surgery,
they put a patch on him on his back for the pain.  But even though he had just
had surgery on both legs and the patch was on his back near his shoulders, he
managed to keep pulling it off.  So they (the hospital) stapled it on with the
same staples used to suture his knees.  Then he pulled the staples out!  (He
also pulled the sutures out of his knees which mean having them re-done and an
Elizabethan collar for awhile.)  So there could be issues with patches if a
kitty doesn't want them there!

   Know that you and Treacle have understanding friends around the world!

   Carol, Clipsie, and kitten Charlie

     ----- Original Message -----
     From: Debbie Raikes-May
     To: ourcats@yahoogroups.com ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com ;
catprayers@yahoogroups.com
     Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 4:26 PM
     Subject: [FH] Update on Treacle



     Thanks to EVERYONE who rang me, emailed me, thought about me  and I mean
'Treacle' really and just generally kept me going through that awful, awful day
yesterday. In many ways I feel close to you lot than to my 'in person' friends
as they don't really understand that K and T are my FAMILY, not my 'pets' (a
term I dislike).
     So...how is the girl? Well,

     She had such a lovely sleep last night, free of pain. It was great to see
her stretched out and relaxed...you know how they sort of flex their toes and
shuggle them around? She did all that and she hasn't been able to for ages. She
was purring softly and having LOVELY kitty dreams  I won't ask her what about. I
am not sure I want to know!!

     This morning she was alert and asking for her food. I went down at 6am as I
had an early start and she was up, demanding. Hasn't done this for a while
either.

         I had to pill her with more pred before I left for work but she takes
them dry and no murmur.
     Pauline, our housekeeper was briefed that the most important tasks of her
day were to watch Treacle, feed her as often as she wanted and to play with
her...nix to the cleaning!
     I think they both enjoyed that!
     When I came home tonight she had had a good day, had eaten well and is still
walking reasonably flexibly and not on tippy toes. She is so pleased she can
walk and not hurt...poor girl. Must have been so bad. And she can sit down
properly too!

     The anaemia test came back neg. not anaemic then.
     We are still waiting for the outcomes of the Potassium and the phosphorous
tests.
     I have had to fight every step of the way for this. You wouldn't think we
were paying them would you!
     I am sure they refer to me as 'that neurotic Mrs Ansell from The Nook' 
because they seem so wary of me. If I was younger I would care more that they
liked me but where my cats are involved...I don't give a cuss!

     I have taken her off the Hawthorn as that can give tremors I now find...I am
also wondering about a tiny lump I can feel on the base of her throat...anyone
got any ideas? before I ask the vets about this I better be sure its not a
freckle but it seems to be inside the skin........

     It is a total delight to see her enjoying her life and walking around again.
I know the Pred may shorten her life but so what? Better that she enjoys what
she has than to be a slumped, sweaty bit of fur in a basket, barely moving which
is what she was yesterday.
     Some of you have said Pred does not damage kidneys. My vet and my cardio are
adamant that it does! I find this division most hard to deal with...if any kind
soul can point me toward hard data that may say conslusievly one way or the
other, I would be most grateful.
     Also, she had a cortico steroid shot yesterday to reduce any inlamm. in the
nerves. Worked like a dream. She could have played in goal for Manchester United
within an hour. Isthere any reason she could not have these once a week as
surely they bypass the digestion?
     Ben and I are having an early night tonight. It is very warm and clear
evening here and the swallows are 'chittering' in the eaves. I feel drained from
yesterday. I know we will have bad days again but I bless you all from the
bottom of my heart that you were there for me. I will do the same for anyone of
you.
     Love
     Debbie and Treacle (who just thanks you from her bottom, because she is
licking it right now!)


     To: debbie.raikesmay@...
       Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 6:51 PM
       Subject: Treacle


       HI Debbie,

       Been thinking about you and Miss T. How is she doing?

       Love
       Wendy and Mr T


     [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is Treacle's account of how her day with Hillary went. Apologies to Wendy
as I have recycled parts of my letter to her as I am just too tired to type much
today. Love, Debxx
----- Original Message -----

My tail is as straight as a spire and I have put on half a pound. I look like me
again!
Today a lovely lady called Hillary came to see me. She was odd! She kept waving
her hands over me. I really wanted her to just get on with it and stroke me but
she kept almost doing it then pulling back.
There was much talk of 'tuning'. Or it could have been tuna? Anyways, they never
gave me any fish so I got well hacked off with this and went and hid in a bush.
Then Mum came and stuck her head in it! She looked so funny! Spiders everywhere
and she HATES those! She gently pulled me out and gave me to madwoman who by now
was waving crystals above my head.
DOH! I sat still and then a funny thing happened. I felt all warm and sleepy
and..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
When I woke up, it was much later and I know this because I was hungry.
Madwoman said my fur was fluffier and she was right! Did they bath me secretly?

I found I could walk with my tail right up and no pain so I ran a bit to test it
out.
What is it with women? Mum burst into tears and all the neighbours clapped!
I saw a blackbird and decided to go chase. I got halfway up the tree and then
just couldn't be bothered. So I came back down and rolled a bit as that always
gets' em.
Madwoman has now gone home and she said she had spent time thinking about all my
catfriends on the list.


So, I hope she has sent some magic your way and I want you to know I feel
......grrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaatttttt!
(I still think she is a madwoman though.Dad thought so too but even he was
impressed when she told me to raise each paw in turn and I did it! Even though I
was trying not to. They just sort of floated up.

Mum says she was a very clever woman and worth every penny.
Of course she was. Nothing is too good for me, the mighty Treacle!
Sister got in on the act as well and did the old 'limp paw' routine. I nipped
her though and she ran away.
Even more ha ha!
The kittens are driving me crazy. They get caught tomorrow and a good thing too.
They look like furry popcorn to me - and I fancy a night at the
movies..............!
Much love to you all and I hope some magic has come your way too.
Your
Treaclexxxx

ps Mummy says she has still not caught those kittens and she is really ANGRY!!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you so much for your thoughts.
Sorry it took me so long to respond. I really do appreciate it
Love
Debbie and Treaclexxx
----- Original Message -----
   From: Nannygoatsf
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2003 11:04 PM
   Subject: [FH] Re: Bad news re Treacle, so sorry.


   Hi Debbie,

   I'm not a terribly active member of this board but I've been reading
   your postings from time to time. While I don't have any magical
   advice, I'd just like to say I'm truly sorry for the pain you are
   feeling now. It's heartbreaking to see our best buddies suffering.

   I'd certainly try the pain patches at least for a while to see how
   she fares - you don't want to put poor Treacle down and then
   wonder "what if" later.

   I'll keep good thoughts and say a prayer for you and Treacle.

   Nancy (and Bogie)


   --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Raikes-May"
   <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
   > Dear Friends
   > I have had a very bad day today.
   > The vet, Kate came to see Treacle and was shocked by how poor her
   mobility was in the rear. She was in a lot of pain.
   > She has extensive nerve damage and this is causing circulatory
   problems. You know she can't have aspirin so this puts her at even
   higher risk of clotting now.
   > An MRI scan means she would need to be anaesthetised and this
   isn't really an option because of her heart.
   > She continues to lose weight even though she is eating well again.
   >
   > Kate gave her a steroid pain relief injection and said the other
   options from this are patches which release an opiate pain killer
   (need re sitting every three days so animal will have many shaved
   patches)...has anyone heard of this? or
   > Prednisolone which will affect her kidneys or another steroid
   painkiller which could have the same effect
   >
   > She feels the damage will be progressive and fast moving now as it
   has sharply increased,
   > I am so upset. The heart thing is manageable right now and she has
   fought so hard.
   > We are being asked to consider putting her to sleep to save her
   the degenerative pain, or to face the fact that on painkillers she
   will almost certainly have bad kidney damage soon and that will
   finish her off.
   > I am quite desolate, Ben is away, I have a whole lot of work to do
   and my brave little Treacle needs me to do the best for her.
   > Guys, please help me. What do I do?
   > Love
   > Debbie
   > Debbie Raikes-May
   > Clock Consultancy Ltd
   >
   >
   > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Debbie, you made my day reading this!:-))))  Love Chris

   From: Debbie Raikes-May

   Subject: [FH] Healer


   This is Treacle's account of how her day with Hillary went. Apologies to Wendy
as I have recycled parts of my letter to her as I am just too tired to type much
today. Love, Debxx
   ----- Original Message -----

   My tail is as straight as a spire and I have put on half a pound. I look like
me again!
   Today a lovely lady called Hillary came to see me. She was odd! She kept
waving her hands over me. I really wanted her to just get on with it and stroke
me but she kept almost doing it then pulling back.
   There was much talk of 'tuning'. Or it could have been tuna? Anyways, they
never gave me any fish so I got well hacked off with this and went and hid in a
bush.
   Then Mum came and stuck her head in it! She looked so funny! Spiders
everywhere and she HATES those! She gently pulled me out and gave me to madwoman
who by now was waving crystals above my head.
   DOH! I sat still and then a funny thing happened. I felt all warm and sleepy
and..mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
   When I woke up, it was much later and I know this because I was hungry.
   Madwoman said my fur was fluffier and she was right! Did they bath me
secretly?

   I found I could walk with my tail right up and no pain so I ran a bit to test
it out.
   What is it with women? Mum burst into tears and all the neighbours clapped!
   I saw a blackbird and decided to go chase. I got halfway up the tree and then
just couldn't be bothered. So I came back down and rolled a bit as that always
gets' em.
   Madwoman has now gone home and she said she had spent time thinking about all
my catfriends on the list.


   So, I hope she has sent some magic your way and I want you to know I feel
......grrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaatttttt!
   (I still think she is a madwoman though.Dad thought so too but even he was
impressed when she told me to raise each paw in turn and I did it! Even though I
was trying not to. They just sort of floated up.

   Mum says she was a very clever woman and worth every penny.
   Of course she was. Nothing is too good for me, the mighty Treacle!
   Sister got in on the act as well and did the old 'limp paw' routine. I nipped
her though and she ran away.
   Even more ha ha!
   The kittens are driving me crazy. They get caught tomorrow and a good thing
too. They look like furry popcorn to me - and I fancy a night at the
movies..............!
   Much love to you all and I hope some magic has come your way too.
   Your
   Treaclexxxx

   ps Mummy says she has still not caught those kittens and she is really ANGRY!!





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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

After seven hours we just trapped Mama Felix...she had SEVEN kittens and is
about three weeks from giving birth to another lot.
As I type this, Ben is on his way to the Vets with her for testing and care, she
will then go to the sanctuary run by our friend where she will have her babies
and be spayed before returning to us.
I now have to face the quite impossible task of catching SEVEN squirming, angry
and frightened bundles who are now motherless.
I feel like a murderer!
Debbie
ps For a girl cat she sure knew some BAD words!

Debbie Raikes-May
Clock Consultancy Ltd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Awwwwwww, Treacle, you have such a way with words.  Sounds like your day with
the madwoman was very productive.  So glad you are feeling better.  Keep up
the good work.  Bandit says now if only he could run and jump like that.  He'd
be happy to just walk straight.  He has to walk slow and carefully but is
doing more and more of it so we hope he's progressing, too.

Sandy and Bandit


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Good luck, Debbie.  You're no murderer.  You're just concerned.  Mama would
be dead in no time if she kept having kittens like that.  You did the right
thing and she will thank you for it.  Now the 7 little kitties, they'll be fine.
It's obvious they have you to watch over them, and kittens always tend to
find good homes.

Have fun kitty catching.

Sandy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

First of all, I started answering emails but there were so many I
have decided to thank everyone in this group for all of your emails,
both to the group and privately.  It has meant so much to us to have
the support of so many wonderful people.  It has helped us out
tremendously over the past couple of weeks.  If I didn't answer your
email, don't feel slighted.  I have been overwhelmed with emails from
several different groups, all supporting us in this time.  All of the
prayers and thoughts have definitely worked miracles and we are
thankful for that.  Thank you again, each and every one of you.

Now, an update on Bandit.  We brought him home yesterday and he was
taking a few steps but then had to lie down.  Gradually he is making
more progress as he has been slowly walking around our room.  He'll
probably never be a track star but who cares?  At least he's home
with people who love him.  We shut all of the other cats out of the
bedroom last night and left the cage door open so he could come out
and he did.  He slept in his various favorite spots in our room.  He
has one corner particularly where he has taken over this little itty
bitty kitty bed.  It's one I bought at a show to put in the show
cage.  He loves it so that's Bandit's bed.

This morning when my hubby got up, he picked Bandit up and put him on
the bed.  We had our wonderful snuggle time.  He loves to get under
the covers and knead me and then curl up with me.  It is our time of
togetherness.  I love it.  He eventually goes to lie somewhere else
on the bed and he chose my hubby's side.  He was lying there with his
head resting on Whitey's pillow.  How cute is that?  He's quite a
guy!!!

His fur is really a mess so I have been thinking of getting him
shaved down so we don't need to bother with fur.  He's having trouble
cleaning himself after he goes to the litterbox and, really, his
backside doesn't smell the greatest.  I hate to get rid of his fur
but it would make it easier and I wouldn't have to keep bugging him
about combing him.  Maybe then it will come in nice and fluffy
again.  Does anyone have experience with that?  I know some people
shave their cats, particularly MCs.  Just a question I'm pondering.

Thank you again, everyone.  Bandit is doing well and we are giving
him his heart meds so I hope there will be no more clots and that he
will be with us for a long time to come.

Sandy

Hi Nicole,

    I'm sorry that little Carl is not feeling well. It is so difficult
to be a caregiver sometimes, especially when something as mysterious
as heart disease may be on the horizon. I know you are very concerned
and it sounds like you are doing everything for him at the moment.

    While x-rays can be helpful in spotting an enlarged heart, or
possible fluid build-ups, what most folks have done is what is called
an echo-cardiogram or ultrasound. After reviewing the x-rays your vet
should be able to determine whether this is the next step or not.

    Many kitties will have NO symptoms at all so it is often difficult
to tell anything by how the kitty is "feeling". How old is Carl? I'm
sorry if you've already mentioned it, I don't read all the posts. The
general patterns for heart disease are quite different depending on
the age of the kitty involved.

     The good news is that there are many good drugs available now to
help our kits with heart disease. Your Carl sounds as if he is
normally strong and fit so this is also a good sign. Perhaps he just
has been battling a cold virus, hence the runny eyes. When my kits get
this sort of problem, I reach for the suppliment bottles to help their
own immune systems...I give them extra vit E and CoQ10 and I also add
250mg of L-Lysine to their food for a few days. This usually clears
things up.

    Just like humans, kitties go thru spells of not feeling well for a
variety of reasons...but when you are waiting for potentially
challenging news from the vet, I know that suddenly EVERY little
sneeze or extra hour of nap can suddenly become an issue for concern!
Try to relax and just take this one day at a time :-)  IF it is
heart disease, you will be in for a life-altering journey of
caregiving for your Carl and there will be many ups and downs along
the way...but  for all the anguish, there are also great rewards as we
get more "in tune" with our kits than ever before.

    On the practical level; knowledge is power...check out all the
extra reading here on this site and all the various links. Once your
vet gets back to you about the x-rays, you may want to ask for an
ultrasound with a cardiologist. This is really the best and most
in-depth way to analyze the condition of the kits heart. The cost does
vary depending on where you live but generally it is around $250-300.
If you have any doubts and can afford it, this might give you the best
peace of mind.

    Once you've seen a cardiologist you will then know better how to
proceed. There are many different "kinds" of heart disease and
treatment plans vary accordingly...but there are general issues that
we all face and have to deal with. This group can be a great place for
that kind of support...though sometimes it takes us a while to
respond! <sheepish grin> so just post again like you did and hopefully
we'll do better!

     I know you are very concerned about Carl...hopefully your vet will
have some good news but if you are still concerned, I recommend seeing
a cardiologist, just to be sure. If you find that you are going to
take this route, let us know and we can talk about what questions to
ask her/him. Sometimes it's easy to forget stuff when we are getting
difficult news....it's best to have things written down and to also
write down the answers when we get them!

     Also, this group is good with "numbers"...by that I mean that we
all have learned how to interpret (in a VERY general way) the results
from blood work. If your vet does recommend this for Carl, be sure to
get copies of his results and let us know what his "numbers" are.

     Please keep us posted, and hang in there....antibiotics can make
some cats feel very crummy. The important things to look for if you
are concerned about a heart related CRISIS are: "blue" lips, gums or
pads (decreased oxygen in the blood), laboured and rapid breathing (I
mean really laboured, like he can't "catch" his breath), a deep
gurgling or squishy sound in his lungs, very rapid heart rate not due
to exercise, or, sudden paralysis in any of his legs. This last
could indicate a possible blood clot and he needs IMMEDIATE attention
if this is the case. These are all the worst case indicators...and I
don't mean to scare you, but these are what we are all on alert for in
our kits...but even if any one of these things happen, there are still
possible treatments available to try, so, stay positive. Sometimes the
only and first warning of feline heart disease that we get is a
crisis event and many folks here will tell you that their kitties have
recovered and now, with treatment are living reasonably happy and
comfortable lives.

      I hope this helps and I hope Carl is feeling better soon. And
while this group is a wonderful refuge, I hope they won't mind if I
say that my wish for you is that after you get your news from the vet,
that you won't be needing us at all!  :-)

Take care,

Sally






--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "carlrocksandlennytoo"
<nicolefagin@h...> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I am just worried about my little boy carl. I posted a message
earlier that he
> might have an enlarged heart. I am still waiting to hear the results
from carl's
> xrays from a specialist which my vet gave them to for looking at.
Here is my
> post I left on a differnt board and I wonder if these things could
be indicative of
> a heart problem:

We trapped Mama and two kttens. Still four out there but we may have to leave
those till morning...still, its a start.....
Love
Debbie



Debbie Raikes-May
Clock Consultancy Ltd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I just wanted to let everyone know that I posted pics of Bandit.  I
began with his first kitten show and the last picture was taken after
he was diagnosed with his heart murmur.

Enjoy.

Sandy

----- Original Message -----
   From: catsfurlife
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:28 PM
   Subject: [FH] Thank You and a Bandit Update


    .
   His fur is really a mess so I have been thinking of getting him
   shaved down so we don't need to bother with fur.  He's having trouble
   cleaning himself after he goes to the litterbox and, Does anyone have
experience with that?  I know some people
   shave their cats,

   B.A., (Before Advantage), we shaved our kitties to have better control over
the fleas.  We have a gorgeous little tortie named Squeaky  that was very
pregnant and we certainly didn't want her to have flea problems and give them to
her babies so we included her in the annual cat shaving.  After she gave birth,
naked and all skin, we waited for her fur to grow back like everyone else's, but
it didn't.  It didn't and it didn't and it didn't.  One night she crawled under
the covers and slept on my legs and sometime in the middle of the night, she
wanted out.  Walking around over and under our legs, she made her way. 
Suddenly, my husband who had been soundly asleep, woke up screaming, "Snake,
Snake!!!" He leaped to his feet on top of the bed and was dancing around as he
screamed.  Slowly a little tortie head eased out from under the covers, looking
at him as though she thought he was a first class idiot.  Could he not tell the
difference from a soft furry little kitty and a cool, sleek snake...........wait
a minute, she was cool and sleek and not furry at all, she was the snake.
   The moral to this tale is that when you shave them, make sure they have all
the nutritional support kitties need to grow back hair and hang back from doing
it if they are pregnant.  Barbara and the KittyBabies


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OMG, Barbara, thank you for the laugh.  It made my day.  Your poor hubby and
the poor little kitty.  Right now Bandit's fur looks terrible and I am afraid
to give him a bath.  I clipped his nails and combed him today and I can still
tell he is tender to the touch in his rear legs, but at least they move,
albeit very stiffly.  He cried a couple of times but he let me do it, so thank
goodness that is over for a few weeks -- the nail cutting anyway.  He does like
to
be combed and actually flipped over and did spread his back legs so I could
comb there, but there was a spot or two where he whimpered.  I kept telling him
I didn't want to hurt him, and he just looked up at me with those big blue
eyes.  He knows it, but he's just telling me, "Mommy, I hurt."  Poor baby.  He's
such a good boy and even when he's upset with me or I hurt him, he doesn't
try to bite.  He vocalizes his feelings.

BTW, did your baby's fur ever grow back?  Inquiring minds want to know.
Also, what kind of cat was it, or did I miss what you said?  I'm kind of mind
boggled these days.  Since Bandit is a Ragdoll, he has a whole lot of fur to
grow
back.  I have heard that when Ragdolls are shaved, their fur grows back
darker, I think.  Hmmmm, he's a seal bicolor now -- wow.  If his fur grows back
darker, he'll be fabulous.

Thanks so much for the story.  It was wonderful.  Hope all of you and the
furbaby recovered.

Sandy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear Sandy
There is a spray you can get from the vet called Coatex. They get a squirt a day
on the food or down the throat and it is excellent for scuzzy fur. When Treacle
looked and smelled so awful I used it for a week and was amazed at how soft and
glossy her coat got. It cleans the skin from the inside and has borage and
primrose oil in it.
Love to Bandit. One of the kits we caught today is b and w so we called him
Bandit, too.
LoveDebbie
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: CatsFurLife@...
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 8:48 PM
   Subject: Re: [FH] Thank You and a Bandit Update


   OMG, Barbara, thank you for the laugh.  It made my day.  Your poor hubby and
   the poor little kitty.  Right now Bandit's fur looks terrible and I am afraid
   to give him a bath.  I clipped his nails and combed him today and I can still
   tell he is tender to the touch in his rear legs, but at least they move,
   albeit very stiffly.  He cried a couple of times but he let me do it, so thank
   goodness that is over for a few weeks -- the nail cutting anyway.  He does
like to
   be combed and actually flipped over and did spread his back legs so I could
   comb there, but there was a spot or two where he whimpered.  I kept telling
him
   I didn't want to hurt him, and he just looked up at me with those big blue
   eyes.  He knows it, but he's just telling me, "Mommy, I hurt."  Poor baby. 
He's
   such a good boy and even when he's upset with me or I hurt him, he doesn't
   try to bite.  He vocalizes his feelings.

   BTW, did your baby's fur ever grow back?  Inquiring minds want to know.
   Also, what kind of cat was it, or did I miss what you said?  I'm kind of mind
   boggled these days.  Since Bandit is a Ragdoll, he has a whole lot of fur to
grow
   back.  I have heard that when Ragdolls are shaved, their fur grows back
   darker, I think.  Hmmmm, he's a seal bicolor now -- wow.  If his fur grows
back
   darker, he'll be fabulous.

   Thanks so much for the story.  It was wonderful.  Hope all of you and the
   furbaby recovered.

   Sandy


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Debbie.  Bandit has lost his gorgeous coat though and I don't know if
it's coming from the HCM or not.  He used to be so nice and fluffy and now
his fur just isn't fluffy any more.  He's still gorgeous in my eyes but
something else has happened to it.  He used to have this gorgeous fluffy tail
and that
is gone as well.  It's better than it was but I was starting to tell him he
had a rat's tail.  I loved his plumy tail.  If you look at his pictures that I
posted, you can see for yourself.

Awwwww, Bandit has a namesake.  That's so cute.  Good luck on capturing all
of the little ones.  Not everyone would do that.

Take care.

Sandy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, it is part due to HCM this is what happened to Treacle for a while as
toxins built up.
However I am happy to tell you four months on she has her plumy tail and coat
back, but thinner than before but really lovely again. It took time, soft
brushing with a baby's hairbrush and I swear by Coatex!
Much love
Debbie and Treacle (You will get you tail back Bandit!)
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: CatsFurLife@...
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 9:09 PM
   Subject: Re: [FH] Thank You and a Bandit Update


   Thanks, Debbie.  Bandit has lost his gorgeous coat though and I don't know if
   it's coming from the HCM or not.  He used to be so nice and fluffy and now
   his fur just isn't fluffy any more.  He's still gorgeous in my eyes but
   something else has happened to it.  He used to have this gorgeous fluffy tail
and that
   is gone as well.  It's better than it was but I was starting to tell him he
   had a rat's tail.  I loved his plumy tail.  If you look at his pictures that I
   posted, you can see for yourself.

   Awwwww, Bandit has a namesake.  That's so cute.  Good luck on capturing all
   of the little ones.  Not everyone would do that.

   Take care.

   Sandy


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
   feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Barbara,
Thanks for the very funny story!
And for the important point about nutrition if you want the hair to
grow back :)
Brigtte

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "barbara" <barbara@b...> wrote:
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: catsfurlife
>   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2003 12:28 PM
>   Subject: [FH] Thank You and a Bandit Update
>
>
>    .
>   His fur is really a mess so I have been thinking of getting him
>   shaved down so we don't need to bother with fur.  He's having
trouble
>   cleaning himself after he goes to the litterbox and, Does anyone
have experience with that?  I know some people
>   shave their cats,
>
>   B.A., (Before Advantage), we shaved our kitties to have better
control over the fleas.  We have a gorgeous little tortie named
Squeaky  that was very pregnant and we certainly didn't want her to
have flea problems and give them to her babies so we included her in
the annual cat shaving.  After she gave birth, naked and all skin, we
waited for her fur to grow back like everyone else's, but it didn't.
It didn't and it didn't and it didn't.  One night she crawled under
the covers and slept on my legs and sometime in the middle of the
night, she wanted out.  Walking around over and under our legs, she
made her way.  Suddenly, my husband who had been soundly asleep, woke
up screaming, "Snake, Snake!!!" He leaped to his feet on top of the
bed and was dancing around as he screamed.  Slowly a little tortie
head eased out from under the covers, looking at him as though she
thought he was a first class idiot.  Could he not tell the difference
from a soft furry little kitty and a cool, sleek snake...........wait
a minute, she was cool and sleek and not furry at all, she was the
snake.
>   The moral to this tale is that when you shave them, make sure
they have all the nutritional support kitties need to grow back hair
and hang back from doing it if they are pregnant.  Barbara and the
KittyBabies
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What raw food did you buy from California? Was it prepackaged and a
special mix?



  Yes, it came frozen, Aunt Jeni's food for cats.   Raw meat, with veggies,
ground eggshells, etc in there.  all natural, no hormones, cage-free chickens. 
They have a good website, it sounded perfect and balanced.  I tried to sneak in
a teaspoon with his regular canned yesterday, he ignored it!



This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee(s)
only and may be confidential and covered by the attorney/client and other
privileges. If the reader is not the intended recipient, DO NOT READ, notify
sender and delete this message. In addition, be aware that any disclosure,
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everyone. Sorry I have not responded to many people today. After a 12 hour
work day we resumed kitten catching and we got another one! So just three to go
now.

Papa is on the prowl and we are determined to get him and - um - have his
'enthusiasm' curbed - surgically!
He is catching food for the kits which are left which seems very 'new man ' of
him!

Today we tried using fishing nets rather than baskets and it worked really well
. But we looked bizarre waving nets filled with liver around and mewing to
encourage the kitties.
No wonder we are given a wide berth by the neighbours!
Treacle continues to astonish me and is still RUNNING around!!
Much love to you and all you kitties and animals
Debbie, Kippurr and Treaclexxxx
Debbie Raikes-May
Clock Consultancy Ltd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.emergencyemail.org/hurricane/

The Emergency Hurricane Network has an area called Having a Pet Plan - it gives
some good information for all types of disasters and other links.


Peg




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,
Haven't posted much since Miss Magggie May died last November, but still lurking
(and caring for Max, my Giant Schnauzer with hermangiosarcoma, an aggressive
cancer). Of course, one can never have enough challenges in life, so I've
decided its time to bring another kitty into the household. I've been feeding a
9-12 month old stray for the last several months  - a scraggly little thing, who
looks to be flea-ridden and  doesn't seem to be putting on any weight. We're
making great progress, now he (she?) arrives every evening and will eat with me
less than a foot away. The last few nights I've actually been able to run my
hand down his back and he took a little food from my hand without mauling it :)

I've found lots of great info on the net about ferals, but most of it pertains
to colonies and TNR (Trapping, Neutering and then Releasing) and about
socializing feral *kittens*. Does anyone have any good (or bad) experiences
socialing adults?

Also, some specific questions:
a) Would you trap with a haveaheart trap (a friend has one) OR can I just "grab"
with a towel and gloves?
b) Should I take him the very next morning for a complete checkup, neuter,
vaccinations, blood work OR should I spend a week or two acclimating him and
tending to basic needs first (fleas and food). (I'm familiar with basic
acclimation rules and would be keeping him separated from the other 4 kitties)
c) What do you think about attempting to apply Advantage while still on the
loose (I'm thinking it would provide at least a little relief immediately, since
I may not be making the catch for another few weeks).

Thanks as always for your wonderful collective advice!

Pam

Hi,
I want to thank you all for your recent support over the loss of my
Jennyfur to CRF and CHF. We all know what a difficult time it is
from start to finish - although it never really finishes, does it?

I have been watching the list and wondering what I can add that will
help.  I have been able to privately email several of you with my
experiences with Fortekor (benazepril) and Lasix, but that is about
the extent of my experience (other than the fear and exhaustion we
all face at times!)

I am subscribed to many email groups, and I am having a hard time
managing them.  I will still be on the cat prayers group, for in
this way I can help.  But I will be signing off this list and the
CRF list.  I just wanted to say thanks again, and encourage you to
keep on for your beloved furry friends. What a great community!

Joanne and Angel JennyFur

----- Original Message -----
   From: havaneseorbichon
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 7:11 PM
   Subject: [FH] Saying Good-bye


    I just wanted to say thanks again, and encourage you to
   keep on for your beloved furry friends. What a great community!

   Joanne and Angel JennyFur


   It is rough losing friends, whether they are our furry ones who have been with
us for years or our new human friends, brought together by the shared
misfortunes of our furbabies.  May your future bring happiness and may the
memories of your sweet Jennyfur stay with you forever.  Barbara and the
KittyBabies


         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Just wondering if anyone has had any experience w/ this supplement.
It is supposed to strengthen the walls of blood vessels as to aid in
decreasing fluid build up in the chest/lungs.

Thanks,
-Steph
Gus & Louise
meet Gus the cat at
http://www.gussielou.com
========
Gus: Male DSH orange and white tabby, 12.9 lbs. Diagnosed 2/02 at 3-
1/2 years of age with advanced HCM: grade 2/3 murmur. CHF diagnosis
4/03. Pleural effusion, severely enlarged LA, blood clot in LA,
mitral valve regurgitation. 12.5 mg Atenolol, 15mg Lasix, 1.25mg
Enalapril 2x/day; 6.25mg Spironolactone 1x/day administered orally.
0.06cc Lovenox administered SQ 1x/day. Supplements: CoQ10, Taurine,
multi-vitamin.

Hi Steph,

     Is this a flower remedy, a tincture or powdered plant product in
pill form or what? Sounds interesting....I'll ask around.

Cheers

Sally


--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Steph" <sschoff@e...> wrote:
> Just wondering if anyone has had any experience w/ this supplement.

> It is supposed to strengthen the walls of blood vessels as to aid in
> decreasing fluid build up in the chest/lungs.
>
> Thanks,
> -Steph
> Gus & Louise
> meet Gus the cat at
> http://www.gussielou.com
> ========
> Gus: Male DSH orange and white tabby, 12.9 lbs. Diagnosed 2/02 at 3-
> 1/2 years of age with advanced HCM: grade 2/3 murmur. CHF diagnosis
> 4/03. Pleural effusion, severely enlarged LA, blood clot in LA,
> mitral valve regurgitation. 12.5 mg Atenolol, 15mg Lasix, 1.25mg
> Enalapril 2x/day; 6.25mg Spironolactone 1x/day administered orally.
> 0.06cc Lovenox administered SQ 1x/day. Supplements: CoQ10, Taurine,

> multi-vitamin.

I had a giant 3MB file e-mailed to me a couple of days ago which I won't send to
the group for obvious reasons <grin> but I _think_ I found a link to it at
http://www.padmasters.com/junkstuff/funny_cats_1.wmv

If it's not there when you get this mail, then just look up "funny_cats_1.wmv"
in google or something.

It's pretty funny, and kinda reminds me a lot of the fearsome five :-)

Cheers,

Catherine, Kitty, Buttons, Patch, Claude, Tuppenny and Topsy-Angel

Capsule form.  Our holistic vet recommended 125mg/day for Gus.  I
had never heard of it.  It doesn't work on demand like Lasix but can
be beneficial over a period of time.
-Steph

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Sally J.Smith"
<sallymerlin@y...> wrote:
> Hi Steph,
>
>     Is this a flower remedy, a tincture or powdered plant product
in
> pill form or what? Sounds interesting....I'll ask around.
>
> Cheers
>
> Sally

Dear Pam

We are so sorry for your loss. Spock seemed such a spunky little cat. It is a
HORRIBLE disease.

We have just caught another kitty feral and he is in the carrier waiting to go
to his new foster home. He has no name yet so as your sad news came in while he
wonders what is going to happen to him...I will write 'Spock' on his label so he
has a sense of history to travel with.
I hope that's okay.
Much love in your sorrows.
Debbie and Ben


Debbie Raikes-May
Clock Consultancy Ltd


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]