Lyn!
What absoultely wonderful news!
I think we needed some! And how
wonderful that your vet is willing to try
these (pimobendan, viagra) drugs if you
elect to try them.
Hugs and always wishing the best to your
heart-kitties,
Nala
Hi Amanda,
In a message dated 9/3/07 4:31:57 PM, justinamanda@... writes:
> However, the
> very next morning we awoke to Griffin having terrible diarrhea. It
> literally looked like peanut butter with the very same consistency.
>
All antibx have the potential to cause diarrhea...b/c they kill beneficial
susceptible bacteria along with pathogenic.
> I called the
> pharmacist and she said she had never heard of flovent causing
> anything like that. She did say that it does list it as a rare side
> effect - diarrhea. We did not give him anymore and he had diarrhea
> again this am and is clearly not feeling well today.
>
It's most likely not the Flovent...but the antibx. And a pharmacist should
know that.
> He is eating,
> drinking a little water and moving around a little bit. I started
> him on probiotics today (in his food)
>
Good. Probiotics are useful anytime you give antibx. And you can keep on
using them for several days after the antibx are finished to help restore
balance
in the dig. tract.
> HCM, possible asthma and now irritable bowel.
>
Amanda, I don't know if Griffin has bowel inflammation. But diarrhea is a
*very* common adverse effect of antibx...in humans and cats.
> We
> just are scared and don't know where to go from here.
>
I know it's scary. If you must continue using an antibx, you can ask the vet
to prescribe one that Griffin can tolerate better...altho sometimes any antibx
causes diarrhea. And you can continue using probiotics...there is no downside
to them, so you can give a dose like 4x/day. You can also give slippery elm
bark, which will help normalize the water balance. Just give it 30-60 min
before/after the antibx.
> One specific question I have is should I take him off of
> his supplements - fish oil and coq10? Could that be agitating the
> problem more?
>
Possible but unlikely.
> The only other question I have is whether to give
> metranidazole, which is what our primary vet prescribed, after a
> call today.
>
Metronidazole is yet another antibx, but it acts on a diff. type of bacteria.
You can use it if you want...but I think a gentler course is to use
probiotics, slippery elm bark, small amts of a bland food every few hrs, and
plenty of
liquid orally (mixing water in his food, encouraging him to drink).
> I am not thrilled about giving another antibiotic, but
> it might be necessary since he has infection with the blood and
> mucus in his stool.
>
Blood and mucous in the stool can be from irritation and bacterial
imbalance...caused by the antibx. // Rosemary
**************************************
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Diane, I`m so sorry to hear of your lost, but please don`t blame yourself , I
have always blamed myself too whenever I lost a cat, but really you did your
best. please feel free to email the group anytime as sharing your grief with
others who understand will help you get through these sad times. God bless ,
hugs and prayers Amanda & Silver chan.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
You poor girl Barney is well now and ok and you must think of it that
way. I had almost the same experience. When I asked about a clot I
didnt know about his shots and all. Speedy had had her shots and had an
immune problem in her foot so they gave a shot of depo. She started
panting and they said it was from the depo and I listened I had every
test done but the echo as I didnt get it offered. She threw a clot and
was horrible over Labor day we went to the emergency and they said I
should put her to sleep she was so sick I did it and I wished I could
go back and take her to Purdue the second she got sick. Drs try to give
my cats depo and I will not give it to a heart kitty as my cardiologist
says no. I still am bothered by this from 1999. So its always in your
head. Since your kitty started seizures too Barney sounded bad. Im sure
you did the right thing and maybe spared him some discomfort. You will
never know. Try to think that way and I know hes with all of our
friends now being Barney. He misses you but wants you to help other
friends in need. Please keep writing on this site as long as you want.
My last heart baby passed in March and I have no heart Kittys now just
fiv+ but I have been on here since 1999 and I cant get off. To help
someone or give support. This is the place to write anything as most of
us have been there and we will help you. Your in our prayers > Janie
Hi Lyn ~
Glad to hear the Spironolactone is working well for Trixi. I too, am up
for discussion of adding this to Oliver's med regime and to accompany his
intake of Furosemide. Just a note to let you know that Oliver's diagnoses is
so
severe we needed to reach for the Vetmedin (Pimobendan) and it is working
incredibly well for him.
Marisa
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I feel terrible, but I re-read my post and I was not clear about the
clavamox. We were given clavamox to start on him, but had not yet
started it. We have only given the 1 dosage of flovent about 12 hours
before his 1st awful diarrhea attack. That is why I am so upset and
frustrated. Where in the world is this darn thick panacake batter
diarrhea coming from? It is crazy. I have never seen anything like
this coming out of him. I am sorry about the confusion - my mistake.
Amanda and Griffin
Diane,
I am so sorry for your loss of Barney. My sympathy and heart goes out to
you.
Marisa
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'm fairly new to this group, but we went through a similar situation 6
years ago when we lost our beloved Freddie. He wasn't a heart cat, but he was
only 13 when we lost him. He'd spent the last 3 days of his life at the vet's
while they tried to treat him and work out what was wrong with him. Eventually
we had to make the awful decision to put him to sleep because he was so ill,
but we went there so that we could be with him and tell him how much we
loved him.
As others have said, your anger and despair are completely natural and
understandable. What you need to know is that you did your best for Barney with
what you knew at the time. And you had given him a lifetime of love and care,
and he knew that. I'm sure he couldn't have had a better home.
I'd agree that you should raise the concerns you had about the vet you saw.
It might make that vet realise that she has to be more responsive and
understanding when she's in that situation again.
My sympathies to you.
Regards,
Shelley (and Bertie).
A couple of emailers from this group who have been so kind to me,
encouraged me to write to the group about this. It is hard to share
this news, since I only just became a member. I posted that my 15
year old cat might have HCM...and we had to put him to sleep on
Sunday right about at this time - 7:30 pm Eastern Standard.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Dawn,
I do not have experience with RCM but can offer some suggestions. First,
the vet's prognosis is nothing more than a guess. I never asked for one
until after Pepper had passed. I asked the cardiologist "how long did you
expect her to live?" and he answered "2-10 months". Well, Pepper lived
almost 2-1/2 years after diagnosis so you just never know. Also, cats are
very sensitive to stress in their environment so please try to relax.
You'll all feel better.
As others have probably mentioned, a good quality canned food (or raw) diet
is very important. Supplements such as CoQ10 and l-carnitine also make a
big difference.
Hang in there!
Sue & Angel Pepper
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dawn Jarocki" <fairweathersurfer@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: [FH] Help - Newly diagnosed restrictive cardiomyopathy
> Our cat, Cat, was just diagnosed with restrictive cardiomyopathy. The
> vet said it was severly advanced and gave her "weeks to months" to live.
> We have brought her home and although she seems happy to be home she
> is much more lethargic and very thin. Plus she is eating almost
> constantly and I have not seen her use the restroom in the past 15
> hours (both of these are unusual for her.)
> We really want her to enjoy whatever time she has left (hopefully more
> than less). I think my husband and I are both so afraid to break her
> that we are tip-toeing around her, speaking hardly in a whisper and
> neither of us have been able to sleep. In fact, last night when she
> decided not to move from her spot on the livingroom floor, we both
> climbed out of bed individually and set up our own make-shift beds
> around her. I think maybe she can't jump anymore because where she
> used to jump now she just looks up and then looks at me. Should I lift
> her up? Will jumping up or down, or walking up stairs, hurt her?
>
> Cat is really the heart of our relationship. We owe her at least half
> the love she has shown us (cuddling with us when we were in pain or
> sad, sleeping curled around my head on nights when I was stressed from
> school, following my husband around giving him cat kisses and watching
> after him as if he were her kitten.)
>
> Can anyone offer us advice on what to expect and how we can make her
> last days more joyful and more in number?
>
>
Lyn,
This is great news! Thanks for sharing.
I think it's important to get the message out about spiro. Many vets are
unfamiliar with it and therefore reluctant to prescribe it. I had great
success with it also.
Sue & Angel Pepper
----- Original Message -----
From: <elfinmyst@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 6:26 AM
Subject: [FH] Spironolactone success
> Hi all
>
> I want to report the success of using Spironolactone in my kitten, Trixi.
> She also takes fortekor, frusimide, Kaminox and the supplements
cardiostrength
> and salmon oil. Trixi has a very aggressive form of HCM diagnosed at 12
weeks
> of age and she was very swollen and poorly towards the end of spring. The
> cardiologist wanted to try Spiro and since she had that, her swelling has
> disappeared completely and we have reduced her frusimide. All her kidney
results
> are normal too. And she is more playful and active than before.
>
> So for those who had faith in Spiro, here is another success case. Spiro
is
> very rarely prescribed in the UK for heart disease in cats, so we're a bit
of
> a trial. It was a risk, but for us, for now, it's working.
>
> It's always worth asking about the alternatives as most cardiologists are
> willing to listen. Mine was supportive of using the Co Q and Carnitine.
>
> Milli, who has a congenital heart problem with a very large hole is going
to
> be trialing either Vetmedin or Viagra if she becomes unstable. It's a
> heartbreaking choice to try a new drug which is untested, but without it,
the
> 'magic bullet' may be missed.
>
> Thankyou again for all the info on the supplements and the wonderful
sharing
> of stories. This forum is an inspiration to me each and every day.
>
> Lyn and heart kittens, Trixi, Milli, Maxi.
> www.furkids-uk.com
>
>
G'day this evening I had to rush Rassie over to the Vets with severe
respiratory distress....they drained 350mls off his chest. I have had him
on Rutin for about 3 weeks. I have told the Vet that being totally selfish
in this instance I so very badly want Rassie to make his 17th birthday on
the 23rd Sept. I will be speaking to the owner/senior vet tomorrow when
Rassie is discharged. I have already said that this is the last pleural
tap he will have. Next time will be the hard step.
I have read about the success with Spiro even though puss cat is on forketor.
That is the bone of contention with my Vet. They will not try it with Rassie
because of him being on forketor. Not compatible....but it seems to be working
for one little purrball. Keep your fingers crossed and the prayers going for my
darling brave old man cheers from Annette Rassie and Pfeiffer in Sth Oz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Annette,
My cat took both spironolactone and benazepril (fortekor).
I did have to keep an eye on her potassium levels,
but they were OK. It is my impression that many
cats here take or have taken both.
Why does your vet consider these two drugs to
be incompatible? For a reason other than
the risk of hyperkalemia (high serum potassium
levels)?
My thoughts are with both you and Mr. Rasputin.
Nala
Hi Diane:
I am so very sorry for your loss. I lost my heart kitty to HCM a
little over a year ago and although the situation was different I
understand the terrible pain you are feeling completely.
My boy was the love of my life and I truly did not know how I would
go on. I never thought I could cry so many tears. But believe
everyone when they say in time it gets better. It does. Sometimes
it seems like it never will but it does. You never stop missing
them but the pain becomes easier to bear and you start to remember
the happy times and smile.
Ask your doctors as many questions as you need to. Understanding
everything that happened will help. Cry as much as you need to and
for as long as you need to. And don't let anyone tell you that you
should be "over it" or that Barney was "just a pet". Our kitties
are so much more than our best friends.
You did everything you could for Barney. He loves you and knows how
much you loved him and he is watching over you. Look for signs from
him and they will be there. I never believed that way before but I
do now.
Take care of yourself.
Jill
--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Diane" <rddugan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> > I feel such raw pain. I have lost such an important part of my
> family. I don't know how to handle it
>
> I don't know what else to say, but thank you for allowing me to
> share.
>
> Diane
>
hi everyone,
First, let me say how sorry I am for those of you who've lost your
precious babies recently, and those kitties who aren't doing well...
I feel for you and my heart goes out to you.
Sorry I've not posted for a while. Things with Chris have been very
time consuming and we've been pretty happy with the way he's been
responding to his meds and supplements, but it's been a lot of work,
and I've been so tired by the time I'm finally at home that I
haven't had the energy to write.
Unfortunately last week, mid week, he started having a hard time,
breathing very hard and fast and really with a lot of effort in his
abdomen. I noticed that he had a runny nose and eyes, just clear
stuff, and he was sneezing. I figured he got some kind of
respiratory infection somehow, so I started giving him colloidal
silver and Lysine twice a day. His runny nose and eyes and sneezing
have cleared up, but I can still tell he's congested when he
breathes. I can hear it from his nose. The last thing Chris needed
was a respiratory infection with all his other problems. :-(
So Marcia and I took him to the interist specialist he went to when
he thew the clot in June, and that vet decided to drain his lungs.
She said she didn't get much fluid, but that it was a "strange"
color so they sent it to the lab. She also said he had some fluid in
his abdomen now too. I don't know what causes that - we forgot to
ask her while we were there...we were asking so many questions about
everything, it just didn't get asked. The vet did bloodwork to see
how his kidney values and hematocrit were, suggesting that we change
the dose of his Lasix and/or Spironolactone to try to see if that
helped his breathing situation, but to wait till the bloodwork came
back. The vet said nothing about the respiratory infection...didn't
offer any treatment, so I've been continuing with the colloidal
silver and Lysine till last night. I stopped the Lysine but still am
giving him the CS in case there's still some infection lingering...
which I think there probably is.
Anyway, we brought him home and he seemed to feel a bit better, but
still breathing hard. Since last week, he's never quite quieted down
with his breathing. His respiration is up between 48 and 60 all the
time, only going down here and there when I give him doses of Rescue
Remedy and massage his calming point on top of his head. Even with
that, he still breathes hard, and it's very low.
His appetite is down and just today he really didn't want to eat at
all. I still syringe fed him anyway, hoping that this might be
something that will pass. Before this for the past month or so,
he's been eating pretty well on his own, no syringe feeding. A
couple days ago, he started not eating so well, so we started the
syringes again.
It's been almost a week now and the vet STILL hasn't called with the
bloodwork results or what to do about his meds. I know it was a
holiday weekend, but she told us she'd call on Thursday before the
weekend when the results were in. I called and Marcia called this
morning and they're telling us the labs still aren't back yet, which
I find hard to believe. In the meantime, Chris is not breathing well
and getting weaker and weaker. Marcia and her hubby, Hank, are
talking about letting Chris go. This is breaking my heart. I feel
like Chris is part of my family too, and I wish there was something
more I could do.
I told Marcia to give him a half a dose of his Spironolactone this
afternoon to see if it helps with his breathing. I used to give my
angel Sweetie a little more of her diuretic when she would start the
hard breathing. I don't know if it'll help Chris, but without any
guidance from the vet at this point, it's the only thing that I can
think of to do to see if it helps.
Chris is getting his DMG half a 125mg tablet, CoQ10 60mg, Hemaplex
and slippery elm powder twice a day, nattokinase once a day and his
meds (Lasix/Spironolactone 2x/day, Atenolol only once a day). I've
been giving him 4cc's of colloidal silver twice a day since last
week Thursday.
Chris is really weak and breathing so hard. Marcia called me last
night around 7pm and said he was breathing with his mouth open, so I
rushed right over there to see what I could do. Other than giving
him Rescue Remedy and massaging his calming point on top if his
head, I don't know what else to do. We don't have any oxygen for
him. I told Marcia she could gently blow air into his mouth and nose
if he gets worse when I'm not there. I did that with my angel
Sweetie when she had trouble breathing. Anyway, I was able to get
him calmer, and syringe fed him his dinner, gave him his meds and
supps and only a small amount of his subQ's for his kidneys (only
25ml). This is so hard balancing this heart/kidney thing. The
kidneys need fluid, the heart can't take it... it's just not fair.
Anyway, when I left last night around 11pm, he seemed more comfy, so
I hoped he'd be okay through the night. This morning Marcia told me
he had a hard night... and today he's really weak and tired,
breathing heavy still.
I went over there at 9:30am to give him his B12 shot and slippery
elm, and I syringe fed him about 1 oz of food, since Marcia said he
refused to eat much at all this morning. He took the syringes okay,
but I could tell he wasn't as interested as he usually is.
He's just so weak. I wish I knew what to do. I wish I could just be
there to watch over him. Marcia called me this afternoon and we
talked about what to do...which right now is basically to keep an
eye on him and we're waiting for the vet to call with the lab
results and hopefully some advice on increasing his Lasix or
Spironolactone. But even with that, Marcia is feeling like this is
nearing the end and all I can do is sit here and worry.
Chris was doing so well up till last Wednesday. He was alert and
walking around a lot, investigating outside and laying in the sun.
He was eating really well and just looked like he was fine. And now
all of a sudden he's just taken this downturn, and we're feeling
helpless to help him. If he truly is getting ready to go, then I
know we have to let him go, but I just hope this is a bump in the
road that he can get over again. He was just so okay before this,
this respiratory infection or whatever it is. I think it just might
be too much for his little body to deal with, with everything else
too.
Please keep Chris in your prayers today. We're really going from
moment to moment now.
love,
Carol, Marcia and Chris, Puddy, Boo, Punkie, MeanMama, Misty,
Snowball and Chelsea
(angels Fritzy, Sweetie, Ducky, Bouncer and Muffy)
"I know you're there...a breath away's not far to where you are."
The vet just called while I was posting my other message and I talked
with her. Chris's bloodwork came back not too bad, BUN was down to 78
from 86 last time. His Creatinine went up though, 4.9 to 5.2. She
said that wasn't a significant increase, but my experience with crf in
my own kitties says that any increase in the creatinine isn't good.
His hematocrit is holding well, so the hemaplex must be helping there.
She told me to have Marcia give him an extra 1/2 tablet of Lasix and
that tomorrow to give him a whole tablet in the a.m. and 1/2 a tablet
in the p.m. (right now he's getting 1/2 twice a day), and if he's not
breathing better by Thursday, to bring him back to see her on
Thursday. I told her we already gave him an extra half a dose of
Spironolactone and asked if it was okay to give the Lasix too, and she
said it would be okay.
I asked her about getting oxygen set up for him at home and she said
we could do that, but she wants to try the meds first. I'd like to
have the oxygen set up anyway, but she doesn't want to do that. I'll
never understand why some vets are so resistant to suggestions from
the pet parents. Lots of people do oxygen at home, and I know it can
mean the difference between life and death sometimes, but because I
suggested it from my group, you folks here, the vet doesn't want to do
it. I just sit here and shake my head in disbelief sometimes.
But back to Chris... I called Marcia and told her to give him the
extra Lasix, so we'll see how it goes.
I'll write again tonight when I get home from Marcia's.
love,
Carol, Marcia and Chris, Puddy, Boo, Punkie, MeanMama, Misty,
Snowball and Chelsea
(angels Fritzy, Sweetie, Ducky, Bouncer and Muffy)
"I know you're there...a breath away's not far to where you are."
What a tough situation for Chris, Marcia and yourself. I do know
though that you many, many prayers coming your way and I hope Chris
responds.
Prayers,
Carole and Saylor
Carole, I am praying for Chris. I am soooooo sorry and hope he pulls
through. I know you have put your heart and soul into making him
comfortable and as happy as he can be. You are a saint! Amanda and
Griffin
> What a tough situation for Chris, Marcia and yourself. I do know
> though that you many, many prayers coming your way and I hope Chris
> responds.
>
> Prayers,
> Carole and Saylor
>
Spoke to yet another Vet in the practise and this time I did not pull any
punches....told him that I was sick of hitting brick walls with them. I was
aware of the Pot stripping effect of spiro and lasix. Felt that because Rassi
had only 3-4 weeks at best because this time would be the last chest tap what
had we to lose. So he is going to order it in. He was not happy about me
using Rutin in conjunction with the other two and I agreed to stop it if it was
warranted. Even though Rassi went 5 weeks this time instead of 3 and has been
on rutin for about 4-5 weeks. Any advice on stopping/continuing on with it as
well as the spiro and lasix please. This help cannot be measured in value to
me. Cheers Annette Rasputin and Pfeiffer in Sth Oz
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Nala, Janie and All,
I want to thank Nala and Janie for their posts on not letting a heart kitty
have a shot of Depo or be given any steroids....I had Nala's "steroids are a
no-no" memorized and Janie's posts about Depo. I am so glad that Nala and
Janie had wrote about this a few different times. Skylar has been having
problems with explosive diarrhea 1 - 3 times a day and he saw his vet who
immediately wanted to give him a shot of depo, I said I did not want Skylar
to have any steroids because of his heart. If I had not read these posts he
would have had the shot and then who knows....so thank you again...
There was not much else she could do then... except send out the blood work
and depending on the results maybe a PLI test and possibly start him on
Flagyl after the tests are back, or send another stool sample out to a
different lab. He was very, very gassy too. I have already joined the IBD
and Pancreatitis groups. Maybe his thyroid will come back high on the blood
test and it may be just that his methimazole needs to be raised.
I also have a can of Hills ID which he may need to be on for a little
while. He has been eating only Wellness Cans, no dry. I have him on
probiotics, I've tried SEB, pumpkin, peas, bran, other remedys as well but
nothing has helped. So I will wait till the tests are back and go from
there. He also has lost 1/2 lb :(
Thanks for listening and I would appreciate any advice...
Hugs,
Candace with Cinnamon and Skylar
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Carol,
I will be keeping you and Chris in my thoughts and prayers too.
Many hugs,
Candace with Cinnamon and Skylar
On 9/4/07, jamander33 <justinamanda@...> wrote:
>
> Carole, I am praying for Chris. I am soooooo sorry and hope he pulls
> through. I know you have put your heart and soul into making him
> comfortable and as happy as he can be. You are a saint! Amanda and
> Griffin
> What a tough situation for Chris, Marcia and yourself. I do know
> > though that you many, many prayers coming your way and I hope Chris
> > responds.
> >
> > Prayers,
> > Carole and Saylor
> >
>
>
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I argued with my vet forever he wanted to give my Trampster Depo for her
allergies. I told
him I lost one cat to this never again He wrote it in our records as He knew how
I felt. I
myself have DCM and I asked my cardioligist if I can take any even for Ivy rash,
He said
only for life and death. Now I think its possible some asthma cats may have to
use some
and it may come a time but it will be a very low amount. I read that vet use
this way too
much. Always keep in mind there may be a time but weigh the risk with heart
patients.
Janie
My heartfelt prayers are with you and Chris.
Marisa and Oliver
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Prayers and best wishes.
Marisa and Oliver
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ok,
Baby felt a little thin in the waste area, so I weigh him he has lost
2 lbs, and maybe a few oz.
I took him in to have a blood test, BUN, CRE, and GLU (diabetes)
to me all looks well, his BUN went down, but his CRE went up, isn't
the CRE the one we have to worrie abt more. The cardio vet never
called me. Sometime I wonder if Baby even needs insulin anymore,
most cats have high BG # w/a draw down at the vet, due to stress.
It's been very hot here, but I've had the a/c running almost day/nt for
7 days now. Baby has the choice were to sleep, warm/cold
9/4/07 5/26/07 12/20/06 11/3/06 10/15/06
BUN 48 60 57 56 57
CRE 3.7 2.7 3.4 3.3 3.5
GLU 107 217 149 225 219
Please email, offlist as well i'm on digest
Vickie
Beware of ISS/VAS cancer that kills cats! www.vas-awareness.org
Don't give shots in the SCRUFF. www.catshots.com
In memory of angel Onyx 12/27/02 and Smudge 5/01/04
Beware of Feline Diabetes !!!
Hi My name is Jill and my cat Oscar who is 8 years old is diabetic,has
asthma, and has hypertrophic cardiomyopothy with pleural infusion. He
has been on spironolactone now for 6 months. It has done wonders for
him! He is also taking enalapril, pzi insulin, flovent by using an
inhaler, and he is taking coenzyme Q10. He is doing great for having
all of these problems and he is a happy dude and you can't tell him he
is sick! I really believe the spiro has made a big difference. Thanks.
Hello Everyone,
I have to express to you all the deep gratitude I feel for the
overwhelming outpouring of sympathy we have received from many of you
who have e-mailed me or responded to the post about Barney. What an
amazing and special group of people you are. Bob (my husband)and I
are still so sad, but your words are so very kind and comforting,
like a warm blanket around us when we needed it. I feel staying
connected here will be like a life line to me.
My husband and I are having so much trouble understanding why the
emergency vet didn't tap Barney's lungs when he was having so much
trouble breathing. As I said before, the vet called us and said his
lungs were filling. She assured us she would tap him before we got
there if she needed to, but when we arrived 40 min later, she had not
done this yet.
She took us in and explained what happened and then gave us some time
with Barney. He was panting and uncomfortable. We both feel she
expected our time with him while he was in distress would lead to a
decision to put him to sleep. After she brought him to us and gave
us some time with him, (too long) and she came back, we asked when he
would be tapped, (we wanted him out of distress, but given one more
chance since this had just happened), she looked stunned and kept
saying stuff like:
Dr.:"his lungs might fill again,"
Our reply "we know, but let's see how he does"
Dr. "we may have to do this more than once and put in a chest tube"
Us "We want to see how he does, and then we will decide.
Dr. "the autoimmune drug we plan has severe side effects, but some
cats do very well."
Us We'd like to see if it works for him.
Dr. "It takes 3 days to kick in and we may have to tap him too much
and put in a chest tube"
Us. "We don't want him to suffer, so let's tap him and see how it
goes"
Dr. "I have to check with the other doctor to see if we would even do
the auto-immune treatment"
Us: "Please check with him."
At the time, these exchanges were confusing to us and we both
wondered why she didn't tap him. It was 2 and one half hours from
the phone call, until she thought Barney had a seizure, took him from
the room for seizure meds, then brought him back in around 2 minutes
saying he was in the last stages - and he was gasping.
We told her to put him to sleep immediately at that point, and she
had the syringes ready in less than 10 seconds. Why didn't she tap
him and at least give him some relief? I can't understand it.
Is there something I am missing, not having experience with this
procedure. It is so hard for me and my husband to get past this. Any
explanation would help us. I plan to do something - a letter or a
meeting with the place to explain how hard this was for us. However,
I am afraid I am missing some obvious medical issue. We thought she
was waiting because it wasn't the right time to do it. Is there a
certain level of distress a cat must reach before s/he is tapped?
Thank you and sorry for the long note.
Diane
Carole,
I'm really sorry Chris has hit a rough patch... the only thing I feel I might
be able to help with is the argument for the O2 at home. If the vet wants to
wait for the meds to work, that is fine, but getting an O2 set up for home isn't
such an instant thing. It can take a few days, somtimes, and why not get that
in motion while you are waiting for those meds to work?
I was lucky in that our IM vet had no problem scripting out the supplies I
needed for O2 at home. But even so, when it came time to get the O2, it ended
up taking me 2 full days to get it. I live in a major city but there were 2
hold ups -- first, my IM vet hadn't specified the flow rate on the script and
apparently, it's a law that the rx must state the flow rate (our IM vet had
never scripted O2 for home so didn't know that). He is not in the clinic every
day, so I had to wait until he was back in the office to get a new script. Then
the 2nd hold up was once I got the right script, turns out the med supply place
was temporarily out of E tanks and I had to wait a day for the next shipment.
It turns out is wasn't a huge deal for Ariel, but in Chris' case, you sure don't
want to be waiting around longer than necessary since his situation is so
critical.
I hope he will improve w/ the meds, but as I said, I would certainly think
getting the O2 rolling in the meantime would be a good insurance. At the very
least, it would make you feel as though you've done all you could, and give him
every extra advantage. There is something to be said for that.
Stacey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you everyone for the prayers and comforting emails.
I wanted to check in and let you know how Chris is doing. He got the
extra Lasix around 3:15pm, and then his regular dose of 1/2 a tablet
with his 1/4 tablet of Spironolactone around 8:30pm. I went over
there tonight at 9:30pm to give him his colloidal silver, lysine,
slippery elm, Pepcid and a little bit of subQ's (only about 35mls
which hardly seems like enough to do anything, but I guess it's better
than nothing). He's still really, really weak and so very tired.
Marcia said he wasn't interested in eating anything, so she gave him
about 20 1cc syringes of food. I gave him another 15, so he got about
just a little over an ounce of food tonight. He really didn't want the
syringes. This is the first time that he's not really wanted them.
I picked him up off the hard floor (he keeps laying on the hardwood
floor lately instead of his little soft cotton rugs that he always
lays on), and I carried him over to his rug and put him down on it,
and I was kind of shocked to see that he just sort of flopped down on
the rug like a rag doll that fell down. He just fell over. I'm
hoping it was just because he had just woke up and maybe wasn't awake
all the way, but I don't know. I didn't like the way he just fell
down, like his legs just couldn't hold him up. I've never seen him do
that before.
Could the extra Lasix make him woozy like that?
Marcia said he's a little better than he was in the afternoon, and I
hae to take her word for that. I didn't see him this afternoon, only
tonight, and tonight I think he was worse than he was this morning...
so he must have gotten really bad in the afternoon when I wasn't
there, that Marcia thought he felt better tonight... but comparing how
he was this morning to tonight, he's worse than this morning, but I
guess, better than this afternoon. I was hoping to see him feeling a
little better than what he was tonight. I hope tomorrow he will be. I
hope he has a quiet night.
I don't think I'm going to get much sleep tonight.
Thanks again for all the prayers. He really needs them, and we
appreciate them so much. This group of people has got to be one of
the most caring bunch. Thank you.
love,
Carol, Marcia and Chris, Puddy, Boo, Punkie, MeanMama, Misty,
Snowball and Chelsea
(angels Fritzy, Sweetie, Ducky, Bouncer and Muffy)
"I know you're there...a breath away's not far to where you are."
hi Stacey,
I totally agree with you! I told that to Marcia too. She talked to
her regular vet about it today (she called him after we talked with
the internist vet), his reaction to her suggestion to have oxygen at
home was for her to just bring Chris in to the clinic and they'd do it
there. Neither of us thinks that's a good idea. It'll just stress
Chris out more to go to the vets office again. I hope we can get it
started. It's going to take a lot of convincing between her regular
vet and the internist vet to get one of them to agree.
Thank you for the info about the prescription too. I think if we go to
them sounding like we know what we're talking about, they'll
reconsider and understand that we know how to do this.
Speaking of that... how exactly does one administer oxygen at home? Do
you make an oxygen chamber of sorts and have them sit in it, or do you
use a mask and just hold it to their faces? I made a nebulizer
chamber for our angel Ducky. We had to nebulize him twice a day with
CS/DMSO for his chronic respiratory infections, and I took a dog
carrier and covered all the openings with plastic wrap, covered the
door, put weather stripping around it to make it as air tight as
possible, had an entrance and exit hole for flow and would put the end
of the nebulizer tube in the entrance hole. Ducky laid in the
nebulizer chamber for an hour twice a day for the whole last year of
his life. It made a huge difference for him.
So is that what we'd do with the oxygen? Have him lay in the chamber?
How long do you give them oxygen and at what strength? Does it get
administered that way... in strengths?
Thanks for any more info you can offer. I appreciate it so much.
hugs,
Carol, Marcia and Chris, Puddy, Boo, Punkie, MeanMama, Misty, Snowball
and Chelsea
(angels Fritzy, Sweetie, Ducky, Bouncer and Muffy)
"I know you're there...a breath away's not far to where you are."
-- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, SThoyre <sthoyre@...> wrote:
>
I'm really sorry Chris has hit a rough patch... the only thing I feel
I might be able to help with is the argument for the O2 at home. If
the vet wants to wait for the meds to work, that is fine, but getting
an O2 set up for home isn't such an instant thing. It can take a few
days, somtimes, and why not get that in motion while you are waiting
for those meds to work?
>
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