Oh my gosh Nala- that was just heartbreaking.  It was so sad that when I read it
(I am at work), I actually had to run to the bathroom and cry!!  It goes right
to the heart.

It's just so touching because it's what all of us here feel- the ups and downs,
the uncertainty, the worries, the good days, the bad days, the joy, the pain,
the vets, the medications, the happiness they bring, and the horrible grip of
fear of losing them.

I lost Ren to HCM in August of last year.  Thank you for sharing this about
Cozette.  They are so precious to us.

Cozette, send a sunshine hug down to your Mom today.  She misses you dearly and
sends her love.

Hugs~
Donna



--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, nala nala <nala_zq@...> wrote:
>
> Two years ago today I lost my wild kitty girl.
> Her exuberance, her curiosity, her vivacity
> now gone.
>
>
> "A rapid heartbeat," he said.  "A high strung cat."
> "But nothing concerning."
>
>
> "A rapid heartbeat," she said.  "A nervous cat."
> "Do not be alarmed."
>
>
> "A murmur," he said. "Does she play, is she active?"
> "Oh very much so," I said, "she dances and twirls."
>   
> "A murmur," he concluded.
> "But nothing concerning."
>
>
> "A murmur," she said.  "Does she need rest, is she tired?"
> "Oh, not at all," I said, "she flies on the ground with leaps and bounds."
>  
> "A murmur," she concluded.
> "Do not be alarmed."
>
>
> "Mild concentric hypertrophy, enlarged papillary muscles,
> left ventricular outflow tract obstruction," she said.  "Does
> she play, is she active?  Does she need rest, is she tired."
>
>
> "Oh, not at all," I said, "She plays with her sister, and 
> chases the moths and the birds."
>
>
> "A textbook case," she concluded.  
> "Early stages, but certainly concerning."
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "She doesn't play, she isn't active," I stated.
> "It's quite alarming."
>
>
> Another echo, another exam
> "It is unusual for a case to progress so rapidly," she said.
> Another radiograph - she climbs up my torso to get away.
> "We will start diuretics"
>
>
> Another echo, another exam
> "I've never seen a case progress so rapidly."
> Another radiograph - she climbs up my torso to get away.
> "Look at her breathing!" I said.  "I've never seen this before!"
> "No EKG!  Lasix IM, STAT!"   She said.
>
>
> She quit eating.  
> She quit drinking. 
> She has no interest in life. 
> Fingertips slathered in food
> Syringes filled with sustenance.
>
>
> The vet consults the cardiologist.
> Try to reverse the prerenal azotemia.  
> Ooops, too much fluid!  Severe CHF.
>
>
> She perks up and purrs at my visits.  
> "She still wants to live" I said.
>
>
> 3 days of oxygen with slow IV drips.
> Constant infusions of lasix and reglan and ifs.
> "She's getting fractious and hard to control"
> "Good!" I said.  "Perhaps it's time for us to go."
>
>
> Now she is home, but won't eat and won't drink.
> I decide on an e-tube, I can't really think.
>
>
> It's been two months and then three and then four.
> We made it to the sixth month, but then no more.
> She ran to the window, cried out, and collapsed on the floor.
>
>
> I held her in my arms. She drew her last breath.
> I cried out, still holding her, and collapsed on the floor.
>
>
> May 30, 2007
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Nala,



My heart goes out to you.  They bring us such joy and when they go it's the
hardest thing in life.  What would Cozette want for you?  Happiness and the
anticipation of the greatest moment when you will be reunited.



White lite for you and Angel Cozette.



Linda

   _____

From: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com [mailto:feline-heart@yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of jintzr
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:33 AM
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FH] Re: August 30, 2000 - May 30, 2007








Oh my gosh Nala- that was just heartbreaking. It was so sad that when I read
it (I am at work), I actually had to run to the bathroom and cry!! It goes
right to the heart.

It's just so touching because it's what all of us here feel- the ups and
downs, the uncertainty, the worries, the good days, the bad days, the joy,
the pain, the vets, the medications, the happiness they bring, and the
horrible grip of fear of losing them.

I lost Ren to HCM in August of last year. Thank you for sharing this about
Cozette. They are so precious to us.

Cozette, send a sunshine hug down to your Mom today. She misses you dearly
and sends her love.

Hugs~
Donna

--- In feline-heart@ <mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com>
yahoogroups.com, nala nala <nala_zq@...> wrote:
>
> Two years ago today I lost my wild kitty girl.
> Her exuberance, her curiosity, her vivacity
> now gone.
>
>
> "A rapid heartbeat," he said.  "A high strung cat."
> "But nothing concerning."
>
>
> "A rapid heartbeat," she said.  "A nervous cat."
> "Do not be alarmed."
>
>
> "A murmur," he said. "Does she play, is she active?"
> "Oh very much so," I said, "she dances and twirls."
>
> "A murmur," he concluded.
> "But nothing concerning."
>
>
> "A murmur," she said.  "Does she need rest, is she tired?"
> "Oh, not at all," I said, "she flies on the ground with leaps and bounds."
>
> "A murmur," she concluded.
> "Do not be alarmed."
>
>
> "Mild concentric hypertrophy, enlarged papillary muscles,
> left ventricular outflow tract obstruction," she said.  "Does
> she play, is she active?  Does she need rest, is she tired."
>
>
> "Oh, not at all," I said, "She plays with her sister, and
> chases the moths and the birds."
>
>
> "A textbook case," she concluded.
> "Early stages, but certainly concerning."
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "She doesn't play, she isn't active," I stated.
> "It's quite alarming."
>
>
> Another echo, another exam
> "It is unusual for a case to progress so rapidly," she said.
> Another radiograph - she climbs up my torso to get away.
> "We will start diuretics"
>
>
> Another echo, another exam
> "I've never seen a case progress so rapidly."
> Another radiograph - she climbs up my torso to get away.
> "Look at her breathing!" I said.  "I've never seen this before!"
> "No EKG!  Lasix IM, STAT!"   She said.
>
>
> She quit eating.
> She quit drinking.
> She has no interest in life.
> Fingertips slathered in food
> Syringes filled with sustenance.
>
>
> The vet consults the cardiologist.
> Try to reverse the prerenal azotemia.
> Ooops, too much fluid!  Severe CHF.
>
>
> She perks up and purrs at my visits.
> "She still wants to live" I said.
>
>
> 3 days of oxygen with slow IV drips.
> Constant infusions of lasix and reglan and ifs.
> "She's getting fractious and hard to control"
> "Good!" I said.  "Perhaps it's time for us to go."
>
>
> Now she is home, but won't eat and won't drink.
> I decide on an e-tube, I can't really think.
>
>
> It's been two months and then three and then four.
> We made it to the sixth month, but then no more.
> She ran to the window, cried out, and collapsed on the floor.
>
>
> I held her in my arms. She drew her last breath.
> I cried out, still holding her, and collapsed on the floor.
>
>
> May 30, 2007
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Footsie has done so well for the last couple of months -- he goes to the doctor
every Friday for a blood pressure check and a listen to his heart and lungs. 
His pressure is down and stable, and other than occasional periods where I need
to add in the albuterol inhaler again his asthma is stable.  I weighed him again
this past Friday and he has lost 2 lb since early April.  He looks, to me, like
an old kitty who is losing his body fat - but he is just  8 1/2.   I mentioned
this to his vet and he said the weight loss was probably fluid since he is on
lasix bid.  Somehow my gut feeling is that it is more than that.
 
Have any of you had this experience with HCM cats on medication - that they lose
weight?  I was wondering about giving him digestive enzymes, with or without
added vitamins - maybe the meds are messing with the absorption of nutrients?  A
friend suggested a product from Only Natural Pets, a company whose products I've
used before and been happy with. 
 
The product I was looking at mentions containing vitamin K -- red flag???    But
on this ingredients list it either isn't there or I missed it.   What do you
think about this?  Or about the idea of digestive enzymes in general?
 
Thanks for your input.
 
 
Guaranteed Analysis per Four Tablets:




DL-Methionine 10 mg
Cystine 5 mg
Linoleic Acid 25 mg
Calcium 50 mg
Phosphorus 25 mg
Potassium 0.25 mg
Magnesium 1.5 mg
Iron 1.5 mg
Copper 0.030 mg
Zinc 1 mg
Iodine 0.040 mg
Selenium 0.0035 mg
Vitamin A 900 IU
Vitamin D3 50 IU
Vitamin E 5 IU
Menadione 0.002 mg
Thiamine 2 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 2 mg
Pantothenic Acid 5 mg
Niacin 5 mg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) 2 mg
Folic Acid 0.002 mg
Biotin 0.002 mg
Vitamin B12 0.002 mg
Choline 5 mg
Taurine 200 mg
*Gamma Linelenic Acid 10 mg
*Ascorbic Acid 20 mg
*Inositol 2 mg
*Para-amino-benzoic Acid 2 mg
Betaine HCl 10 mg
*Lecithin 5 mg
*Lipase (2.5 USP Units) 2.5 mg3
*Pepsin (4.5 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
*Papain (3 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
*Bromelain (0.9 GD Units) 1.5 mg2
*Protease (26.0 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My cat Duffer (will be 7 years old in July) was diagnosed with HCM and started
Lasix in April.  She has lost around 1.5 pounds or a little more.  I was
concerned about this also and my specialist said that it was probably the lasix
and that she wasn't worried about it.  Because I have been worried about it,
though, I started trying to feed her more of her favorite canned food.  It seems
like she is eating a whole lot more in the last few weeks, but I haven't weighed
her to see if she has gained any weight back.  She has always been a pretty
small cat and is now down to 9.2 pounds. 

So, I guess I don't really have any advice, but just wanted to say that I
understand and the same thing happened to my cat when first going on the heart
meds.  Maybe it really is the meds.

Kristen




________________________________
From: Susan Loesch <pipercatmom@...>
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 10:05:32 AM
Subject: [FH] Advice needed again -- Big Footsie





Footsie has done so well for the last couple of months -- he goes to the doctor
every Friday for a blood pressure check and a listen to his heart and lungs. 
His pressure is down and stable, and other than occasional periods where I need
to add in the albuterol inhaler again his asthma is stable.  I weighed him again
this past Friday and he has lost 2 lb since early April.  He looks, to me, like
an old kitty who is losing his body fat - but he is just  8 1/2.   I mentioned
this to his vet and he said the weight loss was probably fluid since he is on
lasix bid.  Somehow my gut feeling is that it is more than that.
 
Have any of you had this experience with HCM cats on medication - that they lose
weight?  I was wondering about giving him digestive enzymes, with or without
added vitamins - maybe the meds are messing with the absorption of nutrients?  A
friend suggested a product from Only Natural Pets, a company whose products I've
used before and been happy with. 
 
The product I was looking at mentions containing vitamin K -- red flag???    But
on this ingredients list it either isn't there or I missed it.   What do you
think about this?  Or about the idea of digestive enzymes in general?
 
Thanks for your input.
 
 
Guaranteed Analysis per Four Tablets:

DL-Methionine 10 mg
Cystine 5 mg
Linoleic Acid 25 mg
Calcium 50 mg
Phosphorus 25 mg
Potassium 0.25 mg
Magnesium 1.5 mg
Iron 1.5 mg
Copper 0.030 mg
Zinc 1 mg
Iodine 0.040 mg
Selenium 0.0035 mg
Vitamin A 900 IU
Vitamin D3 50 IU
Vitamin E 5 IU
Menadione 0.002 mg
Thiamine 2 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 2 mg
Pantothenic Acid 5 mg
Niacin 5 mg
Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) 2 mg
Folic Acid 0.002 mg
Biotin 0.002 mg
Vitamin B12 0.002 mg
Choline 5 mg
Taurine 200 mg
*Gamma Linelenic Acid 10 mg
*Ascorbic Acid 20 mg
*Inositol 2 mg
*Para-amino- benzoic Acid 2 mg
Betaine HCl 10 mg
*Lecithin 5 mg
*Lipase (2.5 USP Units) 2.5 mg3
*Pepsin (4.5 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
*Papain (3 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
*Bromelain (0.9 GD Units) 1.5 mg2
*Protease (26.0 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi, i'm thinking of putting my cat on coQ10 for his heart - can anyone pass
along some advice on using it? is there any side effects? what dosage do most
owners give their cats, and is it the one that you can buy for people? should it
be introduced slowly. thanks very much for your help.

hi, this might seem like a silly question but what is atenolol, and how does it
function? yes, i'm the mother of a newly diagonosed heart kitty...

Susan,

One side-effect of heart disease is cachexia (muscle wasting) due to changes
in the cat's body chemistry.  I don't believe it has anything to do with the
medication, but rather that their bodies simply can't absorb food as well.

My Pepper was over just under 17 pounds when she got sick and by the time
she passed, she had lost 3 pounds (2-1/2 years later).  What I found worked
well for her was to give her salmon oil.  She got about .25cc twice daily.
I found that this really slowed the weight loss and during her good times,
would help her to regain some weight.  I tried discontinuing it to verify
that it really was working - and found that it was!

Digestive enzymes may also be a good idea.  If the product mentions that it
has vitamin K, then I would probably stay away from it.  I normally use
Prozyme - http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Prozyme/228000.aspx

FYI - Pepper also had asthma.


Sue & angels Pepper & Gandy
with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella


----- Original Message -----
From: "Susan Loesch" <pipercatmom@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: [FH] Advice needed again -- Big Footsie


Footsie has done so well for the last couple of months -- he goes to the
doctor every Friday for a blood pressure check and a listen to his heart and
lungs. His pressure is down and stable, and other than occasional periods
where I need to add in the albuterol inhaler again his asthma is stable. I
weighed him again this past Friday and he has lost 2 lb since early April.
He looks, to me, like an old kitty who is losing his body fat - but he is
just 8 1/2. I mentioned this to his vet and he said the weight loss was
probably fluid since he is on lasix bid. Somehow my gut feeling is that it
is more than that.

Have any of you had this experience with HCM cats on medication - that they
lose weight? I was wondering about giving him digestive enzymes, with or
without added vitamins - maybe the meds are messing with the absorption of
nutrients? A friend suggested a product from Only Natural Pets, a company
whose products I've used before and been happy with.

The product I was looking at mentions containing vitamin K -- red flag???
But on this ingredients list it either isn't there or I missed it. What do
you think about this? Or about the idea of digestive enzymes in general?

Thanks for your input.

Hi,

There's never a silly question.

Atenolol is a beta-blocker.  Here's a very simplified explanation.  When a
cat has cardiomyopathy, one chamber of the heart (usually the left
ventricle) becomes enlarged.  Because of that, the two halves of the heart
now have different capacities and one will pump more blood than the other.
It causes a backup which raises the blood pressure and exascerbates the
problem.

Giving beta blockers will help control the heart rate and therefore, lower
the blood pressure and slow the progress of the disease.

Here's more detailed information -
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/beta-blockers/HI00059


Sue & angels Pepper and Gandy
With Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella


----- Original Message -----
From: "shelleyleblanc71" <shelleyleblanc71@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:28 AM
Subject: [FH] atenolol


> hi, this might seem like a silly question but what is atenolol, and how
> does it function? yes, i'm the mother of a newly diagonosed heart kitty...
>
>

I posted last week about Pye being under the weather although the vet didn't
find any problems (no signs of pulmonary or pleural edema, all blood tests
normal). She is back to normal but when I spoke to the vet today to update him
on her progress, he said when he compared her chest x-rays to her last ones
(done in Nov. right after her last echo, which showed progression to severe HCM)
he said there is no difference in her heart size or shape since Nov. but he sees
some changes in her lungs. He wants to do another x-ray in a couple weeks. He
said the changes he sees look like her asthma is getting worse.

Pye has had mild asthma for about five years and it has been completely
controlled with daily Flovent. Last week the vet had told me if her asthma were
getting worse she would be coughing and she hasn't been, so he didn't want me to
increase her Flovent.

I wonder if HCM causes changes in the lungs other than fluids from heart
failure? When Pye was first diagnosed with early HCM two years ago, the
cardiologist mentioned she saw changes in her lungs but she said it was due to
normal aging (Pye was 9 then).

I know someone here said her cat's asthma got worse on atenolol--Pye has been on
atenolol twice a day for two years--so I wonder if that is causing her lungs to
get worse even though she isn't coughing? I realize some of these things can be
hard to figure out with just one or two x-rays which is why he wants to do
another one.
-Susan

hi -- what are you feeding him?  He should be on all canned for maximum protein,
to keep up his strength. Cats cannot properly digest the carbs in dry food, they
are obligate carnivores.  Give him whatever he loves, and keep food out all the
time. Add a little extra water to it to keep it moist.  Most cats adore Fancy
Feast the best.  Don't let him get to thin, he won't be able to keep up his
strength.  Ask your vet about some periactin to give him when he isn't eating
enough.  It works like a charm.

take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Susan Loesch
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:05 AM
   Subject: [FH] Advice needed again -- Big Footsie





   Footsie has done so well for the last couple of months -- he goes to the
doctor every Friday for a blood pressure check and a listen to his heart and
lungs.  His pressure is down and stable, and other than occasional periods where
I need to add in the albuterol inhaler again his asthma is stable.  I weighed
him again this past Friday and he has lost 2 lb since early April.  He looks, to
me, like an old kitty who is losing his body fat - but he is just  8 1/2.   I
mentioned this to his vet and he said the weight loss was probably fluid since
he is on lasix bid.  Somehow my gut feeling is that it is more than that.

   Have any of you had this experience with HCM cats on medication - that they
lose weight?  I was wondering about giving him digestive enzymes, with or
without added vitamins - maybe the meds are messing with the absorption of
nutrients?  A friend suggested a product from Only Natural Pets, a company whose
products I've used before and been happy with.

   The product I was looking at mentions containing vitamin K -- red flag???   
But on this ingredients list it either isn't there or I missed it.   What do you
think about this?  Or about the idea of digestive enzymes in general?

   Thanks for your input.


   Guaranteed Analysis per Four Tablets:

   DL-Methionine 10 mg
   Cystine 5 mg
   Linoleic Acid 25 mg
   Calcium 50 mg
   Phosphorus 25 mg
   Potassium 0.25 mg
   Magnesium 1.5 mg
   Iron 1.5 mg
   Copper 0.030 mg
   Zinc 1 mg
   Iodine 0.040 mg
   Selenium 0.0035 mg
   Vitamin A 900 IU
   Vitamin D3 50 IU
   Vitamin E 5 IU
   Menadione 0.002 mg
   Thiamine 2 mg
   Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 2 mg
   Pantothenic Acid 5 mg
   Niacin 5 mg
   Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) 2 mg
   Folic Acid 0.002 mg
   Biotin 0.002 mg
   Vitamin B12 0.002 mg
   Choline 5 mg
   Taurine 200 mg
   *Gamma Linelenic Acid 10 mg
   *Ascorbic Acid 20 mg
   *Inositol 2 mg
   *Para-amino-benzoic Acid 2 mg
   Betaine HCl 10 mg
   *Lecithin 5 mg
   *Lipase (2.5 USP Units) 2.5 mg3
   *Pepsin (4.5 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
   *Papain (3 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
   *Bromelain (0.9 GD Units) 1.5 mg2
   *Protease (26.0 USP Units) 1.5 mg1


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release Date: 06/02/09
06:47:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes, keep giving her whatever she wants, keep that Fancy Feast out all the time.
It's easier to stop her from losing so much than to try to put on weight after
she's lost a lot --
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Kristen G
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 10:51 AM
   Subject: Re: [FH] Advice needed again -- Big Footsie





   My cat Duffer (will be 7 years old in July) was diagnosed with HCM and started
Lasix in April.  She has lost around 1.5 pounds or a little more.  I was
concerned about this also and my specialist said that it was probably the lasix
and that she wasn't worried about it.  Because I have been worried about it,
though, I started trying to feed her more of her favorite canned food.  It seems
like she is eating a whole lot more in the last few weeks, but I haven't weighed
her to see if she has gained any weight back.  She has always been a pretty
small cat and is now down to 9.2 pounds.

   So, I guess I don't really have any advice, but just wanted to say that I
understand and the same thing happened to my cat when first going on the heart
meds.  Maybe it really is the meds.

   Kristen

   ________________________________
   From: Susan Loesch <pipercatmom@...>
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, June 2, 2009 10:05:32 AM
   Subject: [FH] Advice needed again -- Big Footsie

   Footsie has done so well for the last couple of months -- he goes to the
doctor every Friday for a blood pressure check and a listen to his heart and
lungs.  His pressure is down and stable, and other than occasional periods where
I need to add in the albuterol inhaler again his asthma is stable.  I weighed
him again this past Friday and he has lost 2 lb since early April.  He looks, to
me, like an old kitty who is losing his body fat - but he is just  8 1/2.   I
mentioned this to his vet and he said the weight loss was probably fluid since
he is on lasix bid.  Somehow my gut feeling is that it is more than that.

   Have any of you had this experience with HCM cats on medication - that they
lose weight?  I was wondering about giving him digestive enzymes, with or
without added vitamins - maybe the meds are messing with the absorption of
nutrients?  A friend suggested a product from Only Natural Pets, a company whose
products I've used before and been happy with.

   The product I was looking at mentions containing vitamin K -- red flag???   
But on this ingredients list it either isn't there or I missed it.   What do you
think about this?  Or about the idea of digestive enzymes in general?

   Thanks for your input.


   Guaranteed Analysis per Four Tablets:

   DL-Methionine 10 mg
   Cystine 5 mg
   Linoleic Acid 25 mg
   Calcium 50 mg
   Phosphorus 25 mg
   Potassium 0.25 mg
   Magnesium 1.5 mg
   Iron 1.5 mg
   Copper 0.030 mg
   Zinc 1 mg
   Iodine 0.040 mg
   Selenium 0.0035 mg
   Vitamin A 900 IU
   Vitamin D3 50 IU
   Vitamin E 5 IU
   Menadione 0.002 mg
   Thiamine 2 mg
   Riboflavin (Vitamin B2) 2 mg
   Pantothenic Acid 5 mg
   Niacin 5 mg
   Pyridoxine (Vitamin B6) 2 mg
   Folic Acid 0.002 mg
   Biotin 0.002 mg
   Vitamin B12 0.002 mg
   Choline 5 mg
   Taurine 200 mg
   *Gamma Linelenic Acid 10 mg
   *Ascorbic Acid 20 mg
   *Inositol 2 mg
   *Para-amino- benzoic Acid 2 mg
   Betaine HCl 10 mg
   *Lecithin 5 mg
   *Lipase (2.5 USP Units) 2.5 mg3
   *Pepsin (4.5 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
   *Papain (3 USP Units) 1.5 mg1
   *Bromelain (0.9 GD Units) 1.5 mg2
   *Protease (26.0 USP Units) 1.5 mg1


   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






------------------------------------------------------------------------------



   No virus found in this incoming message.
   Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
   Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.50/2150 - Release Date: 06/02/09
06:47:00


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Shelly,

Since there's a slight chance of stomach upset, you could introduce it
slowly.  The normal dose is 30mg daily.  I did have a vet who recommended
120mg daily but I couldn't get Pepper to consume that much.

I liked the Vetri-Science product called Cardio Strength which is also sold
as US Animal Nutritional's Heart Discovery (it's the same company - just one
is marketed to consumers and the other to vets).  While it only has 20mg of
CoQ10, it also has several amino acids and other supplements that are really
good for a cat.  I'd just give two.  If your cat likes fishy things, then
try opening the capsule and mixing it in his food.  Always keep in mind that
if a medication or supplement discourages a cat from eating, then do not mix
it in the food.


Sue & angels Pepper & Gandy
with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella



----- Original Message -----
From: "shelleyleblanc71" <shelleyleblanc71@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: [FH] coQ10


> hi, i'm thinking of putting my cat on coQ10 for his heart - can anyone
> pass along some advice on using it? is there any side effects? what dosage
> do most owners give their cats, and is it the one that you can buy for
> people? should it be introduced slowly. thanks very much for your help.
>
>

Susan,

I never heard that heart disease would cause changes in the lungs.  Maybe
someone else knows better, but that just doesn't sound right to me.  As
Pepper's heart got worse, the changes showed up with increases in the size
of her heart  - not with changes in her lungs.

They say that asthma can be exascerbated by atenolo.  Pepper's asthma
remained stable.  Her trigger was food so that was easy to control.  However
she did develop an arrhythmia and when they discontinued the atenolol, the
arrhythmia stopped.  Katy and Belle have more experience with that.


Sue & angels Pepper and Gandy
with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella


----- Original Message -----
From: "dshale1" <Dshale1@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:01 PM
Subject: [FH] lung changes on x-ray


>I posted last week about Pye being under the weather although the vet
>didn't find any problems (no signs of pulmonary or pleural edema, all blood
>tests normal). She is back to normal but when I spoke to the vet today to
>update him on her progress, he said when he compared her chest x-rays to
>her last ones (done in Nov. right after her last echo, which showed
>progression to severe HCM) he said there is no difference in her heart size
>or shape since Nov. but he sees some changes in her lungs. He wants to do
>another x-ray in a couple weeks. He said the changes he sees look like her
>asthma is getting worse.
>
> Pye has had mild asthma for about five years and it has been completely
> controlled with daily Flovent. Last week the vet had told me if her asthma
> were getting worse she would be coughing and she hasn't been, so he didn't
> want me to increase her Flovent.
>
> I wonder if HCM causes changes in the lungs other than fluids from heart
> failure? When Pye was first diagnosed with early HCM two years ago, the
> cardiologist mentioned she saw changes in her lungs but she said it was
> due to normal aging (Pye was 9 then).
>
> I know someone here said her cat's asthma got worse on atenolol--Pye has
> been on atenolol twice a day for two years--so I wonder if that is causing
> her lungs to get worse even though she isn't coughing? I realize some of
> these things can be hard to figure out with just one or two x-rays which
> is why he wants to do another one.
> -Susan
>
>
>

I did forget to mention one thing.  If you start giving CoQ10 and later
decide to discontinue it, you'll need to wean your cat off of it slowly.  A
sudden drop could cause other health problems.


Sue

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sue" <susan@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:14 PM
Subject: Re: [FH] coQ10


> Shelly,
>
> Since there's a slight chance of stomach upset, you could introduce it
> slowly.  The normal dose is 30mg daily.  I did have a vet who recommended
> 120mg daily but I couldn't get Pepper to consume that much.
>

i emailed directly (i usually just answer thru my email) but i thought i should
send it to the group as well since it could benefit someone else eventually.

atenolol can cause bronchial spasms and worsen asthma. belle was diagnosed with
HCM in sept 2004 in sept 2005 the coughing started. it was like a furball cough
with neck outstretched but it wasnt constant. i took her back to vet and
cardiologist just to be certain that it wasnt her heart. it wasnt. first they
tried to switch belle from atenolol to diltiazem which did not help at all in
fact it made things worse- it upset her stomach something horrible and her
murmur which was gone on the atenolol was a 2 on the diltiazem (3 without meds).
she went to an internist had a lavage done (i DO NOT recommend this it is
invasive and belle had complications and it was aborted early). she was given
flovent 2x a day and albuterol as well. eventually the albuterol was cut to an
as needed basis after a few weeks (it elevates heart rate so i wasnt comfortable
with giving more than absolutely necessary) and about 1.5 years later her dose
was reduced to 1x a day. i wouldnt think that the lungs would worsen without
external signs like asthma attacks, coughing etc but i know with belle her
asthma attacks were commonly in the middle of the night when she had them. had
it not been for the fact that she sleeps right next to me and i wake up most of
the time when she moves i would have missed 90% of her attacks. belle asthma is
stable attacks are almost non existant now (3 in as many years and during the
height of allergy season plus they last seconds). i do have a HEPA air cleaner
going, i vaccuum often, clean with non harsh cleaners (vinegar and water a lot-
smells like a pickle but thats ok:)
>^..^<
katy & belle




--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Sue <susan@...> wrote:
>
> Susan,
>
> I never heard that heart disease would cause changes in the lungs.  Maybe
> someone else knows better, but that just doesn't sound right to me.  As
> Pepper's heart got worse, the changes showed up with increases in the size
> of her heart  - not with changes in her lungs.
>
> They say that asthma can be exascerbated by atenolo.  Pepper's asthma
> remained stable.  Her trigger was food so that was easy to control.  However
> she did develop an arrhythmia and when they discontinued the atenolol, the
> arrhythmia stopped.  Katy and Belle have more experience with that.
>
>
> Sue & angels Pepper and Gandy
> with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella
>
>

Mellie takes atenolol for her rapid heart rate.   Last year her heart rate was
230, but after a year taking atenolol twice daily (1/4 tab each time) her heart
rate in clinic was down to 150 so her dose was lowered to once daily.  Yea!!

Carol and Mellie

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "shelleyleblanc71" <shelleyleblanc71@...>
wrote:
>
> hi, this might seem like a silly question but what is atenolol, and how does
it function? yes, i'm the mother of a newly diagonosed heart kitty...
>

Hi Shelley,
I know Sue already responded about Atenolol, but I wanted to say hello and tell
you I am new here too. One month ago my new rescue kitty, Tobias, was found to
have a heart murmur as his general check-up. We went to the cardiologist and he
had an echocardiogram and was started on Atenolol as well. I am now learning
about heart issues, heart murmurs, heart disease and everything in between. At
first I was stunned and devastated (and of course still am to some degree), but
the more I learn about his condition (we won't know his overall prognosis until
a repeat echo in 4-5 months) the better I feel about taking good care of him and
being grateful for each day. I am glad you found this group - they have been a
tremendous source of support and help and I plan to stay here for many months
and years to come.
I wish for the best prognosis for your wonderful kitty.
Gretchen

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "shelleyleblanc71" <shelleyleblanc71@...>
wrote:
>
> hi, this might seem like a silly question but what is atenolol, and how does
it function? yes, i'm the mother of a newly diagonosed heart kitty...
>

Fiona and Puddle welcome to the group.

Lyn...what is Cardiostrength?

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, elfinmyst@... wrote:
>
> Hi Fiona and Puddle
>
> How did he get his name? It's so sweet.
>
> I`m sorry Puddle is poorly, but at least you are now aware of it. I also
> have young onset HCM kits diagnosed as kittens and it does progress quickly,
> so  meds are essential. The white/deafness gene is well known and breeders
> are  supposed to test white cats with the BAER test to ensure they aren't
> deaf.
>
> The HCM gene and the deafness gene are not related. HCM can be in any cat
> and is inherited from the parents separately to the coat colour. The
> deafness  gene is related to the albino gene and is common in blue eyed
whites. Odd
> eyed  whites can be deaf in one ear only!
>
> What medication is he on? Has he had an ultrasound. He sounds a very lucky
> boy to have you and the thre legs won't affect his HCM. My Tom has three
> legs as  well.
>
> Likely your white boy is a pedigree, possibly a British? That would explain
>  the albino colour, deafness and HCM is found in that breed.
>
> I use a supplement called Cardiostrength.
>
> Lyn. :)
>
>
> _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Nala,
My heart ached as I read this. I am so sorry for your loss.
Gretchen

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, nala nala <nala_zq@...> wrote:
>
> Two years ago today I lost my wild kitty girl.
> Her exuberance, her curiosity, her vivacity
> now gone.
>
>
> "A rapid heartbeat," he said.  "A high strung cat."
> "But nothing concerning."
>
>
> "A rapid heartbeat," she said.  "A nervous cat."
> "Do not be alarmed."
>
>
> "A murmur," he said. "Does she play, is she active?"
> "Oh very much so," I said, "she dances and twirls."
>   
> "A murmur," he concluded.
> "But nothing concerning."
>
>
> "A murmur," she said.  "Does she need rest, is she tired?"
> "Oh, not at all," I said, "she flies on the ground with leaps and bounds."
>  
> "A murmur," she concluded.
> "Do not be alarmed."
>
>
> "Mild concentric hypertrophy, enlarged papillary muscles,
> left ventricular outflow tract obstruction," she said.  "Does
> she play, is she active?  Does she need rest, is she tired."
>
>
> "Oh, not at all," I said, "She plays with her sister, and 
> chases the moths and the birds."
>
>
> "A textbook case," she concluded.  
> "Early stages, but certainly concerning."
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> "She doesn't play, she isn't active," I stated.
> "It's quite alarming."
>
>
> Another echo, another exam
> "It is unusual for a case to progress so rapidly," she said.
> Another radiograph - she climbs up my torso to get away.
> "We will start diuretics"
>
>
> Another echo, another exam
> "I've never seen a case progress so rapidly."
> Another radiograph - she climbs up my torso to get away.
> "Look at her breathing!" I said.  "I've never seen this before!"
> "No EKG!  Lasix IM, STAT!"   She said.
>
>
> She quit eating.  
> She quit drinking. 
> She has no interest in life. 
> Fingertips slathered in food
> Syringes filled with sustenance.
>
>
> The vet consults the cardiologist.
> Try to reverse the prerenal azotemia.  
> Ooops, too much fluid!  Severe CHF.
>
>
> She perks up and purrs at my visits.  
> "She still wants to live" I said.
>
>
> 3 days of oxygen with slow IV drips.
> Constant infusions of lasix and reglan and ifs.
> "She's getting fractious and hard to control"
> "Good!" I said.  "Perhaps it's time for us to go."
>
>
> Now she is home, but won't eat and won't drink.
> I decide on an e-tube, I can't really think.
>
>
> It's been two months and then three and then four.
> We made it to the sixth month, but then no more.
> She ran to the window, cried out, and collapsed on the floor.
>
>
> I held her in my arms. She drew her last breath.
> I cried out, still holding her, and collapsed on the floor.
>
>
> May 30, 2007
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi everybody.  Today I got my new issue of Clean Eating magazine, and there's an
article about CoQ10 in it.  It's meant for people, of course, but it stated that
*everybody* who is on a statin drug or beta blocker should be taking CoQ10.

So I'm ready to start Tigger on it now.  The smallest dose I can find is 30 mg. 
It's a softgel.  Tigger is impossible to pill, and if I tried to hold him down
to force the issue, he'd probably have a little kitty heart attack.  So I give
him his beef-flavored liquid atenolol mixed in his wet food twice a day, along
with l-lysine for his herpes.

Can someone tell me what is a good starting dose of CoQ10, Tigg is almost 5 and
weighs just about 10 lbs.  Could I mix it in his wet food without him noticing,
or does it taste terrible?  Will I have to squeeze the contents of a softgel
into the food, or is there a "dry" form available somewhere?

All advice apreciated!
thanks much, Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It probably depends on the kind of CoQ10 you buy, but I get Natural Factors
Enhanced Absorption, puncture the capsule and squeeze it into Pye's food. She
eats it, most of the time. It doesn't taste bad, or that brand doesn't.
-Susan

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
>
> Hi everybody.  Today I got my new issue of Clean Eating magazine, and there's
an article about CoQ10 in it.  It's meant for people, of course, but it stated
that *everybody* who is on a statin drug or beta blocker should be taking CoQ10.
>
> So I'm ready to start Tigger on it now.  The smallest dose I can find is 30
mg.  It's a softgel.  Tigger is impossible to pill, and if I tried to hold him
down to force the issue, he'd probably have a little kitty heart attack.  So I
give him his beef-flavored liquid atenolol mixed in his wet food twice a day,
along with l-lysine for his herpes.
>
> Can someone tell me what is a good starting dose of CoQ10, Tigg is almost 5
and weighs just about 10 lbs.  Could I mix it in his wet food without him
noticing, or does it taste terrible?  Will I have to squeeze the contents of a
softgel into the food, or is there a "dry" form available somewhere?
>
> All advice apreciated!
> thanks much, Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

Gretchen,

I hope that I'm not stepping on toes by replying for Lyn.  Cardio Strength
is a product sold by Vetri-Science.  The same product is sold by
Vetri-Science's parent company - US Animal Nutritionals - under the name
Heart Discovery.

It contains CoQ10, amino acids and supplements that support the health of an
animal with heart disease.  I used it and highly recommend it.

http://www.shopusanimal.com/vitaminssupplements/heart-discovery.php


Sue & angels Pepper and Gandy
with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gretchen" <gretchenkolsky@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:30 PM
Subject: [FH] Re:Intro from me and my cat with HCM


> Fiona and Puddle welcome to the group.
>
> Lyn...what is Cardiostrength?
>

Michelle,

The Cardio Strength (aka Heart Discovery) is a powder that comes in a
capsule


Sue & angels Pepper and Gandy
with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella


----- Original Message -----
From: "Westgold" <westgold@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 8:54 PM
Subject: [FH] Co Q 10


> Hi everybody.  Today I got my new issue of Clean Eating magazine, and
> there's an article about CoQ10 in it.  It's meant for people, of course,
> but it stated that *everybody* who is on a statin drug or beta blocker
> should be taking CoQ10.
>
> So I'm ready to start Tigger on it now.  The smallest dose I can find is
> 30 mg.  It's a softgel.  Tigger is impossible to pill, and if I tried to
> hold him down to force the issue, he'd probably have a little kitty heart
> attack.  So I give him his beef-flavored liquid atenolol mixed in his wet
> food twice a day, along with l-lysine for his herpes.
>
> Can someone tell me what is a good starting dose of CoQ10, Tigg is almost
> 5 and weighs just about 10 lbs.  Could I mix it in his wet food without
> him noticing, or does it taste terrible?  Will I have to squeeze the
> contents of a softgel into the food, or is there a "dry" form available
> somewhere?
>
> All advice apreciated!
> thanks much, Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

Hi -- thank you to all who have answered my questions about Co Q 10.  I was glad
to hear that there is a powdered kind, I'll try to hunt that down.

Co Q 10 is really hot right now.  I just came across another article in a
Toronto-based health magazine that goes into great detail to explain how it
works, and why people (and I assume kitties too!) on statins, beta blockers and
even diuretics must take it.  I don't have a scanner, but I'd love for you all
to read it.  If someone who has a scanner could please send me your fax number,
I'll fax this article to you, and you can scan it and post it to the whole
group.

Thanks, Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

None of my HCM cats lost weight, in fact they gained it once they were
feeling better. Have you had Footsie's thyroid checked? That can affect cats of
  his age and is usually shown by weight loss, looking thin and eating
loads.

The other thing may be his metabolism has speeded up and he needs more
food. Also,  has he been wormed recently and you might want to consider a  high
calorie food. When mine lose weight, a few weeks on the kitten food bucks
them up.

:) Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

Mine use Cardiostrength which includes CoQ10. My other heart cats use CoQ10
  at 30mg which I get from the health store. I`ve had 6 cats on it for
several  years with no side effects at all. It seems to work well :)

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Sue

Can you explain what the health problem is when dropping CoQ10. When Trixi
had her heart attack and went to the hospital, she missed it for a week and
I  didn't dare put her back on the Cardio S in case it unbalanced her. Now
I`m  worried after reading your post.

Thanks :)

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

Questions are never silly. We all had to learn this at some time. Please
ask as many questions as you have :)

Sue explained it well. My cats use it to stabilise their hearts as well. It
  slows down the heart rate. In humans they are used for the heart and also
for  anxiety.

:) Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

Trixi had lung changes as a kitten, and an enlarged thyroid. This cleared
up as she aged and the only changes were to her heart, apart from the lung
fluids.

Milli has a different disease which is a cardiac cushion defect (hole in
the heart-- several holes in her case) It's a major congenital problem and
she  was born with lung changes due to high pressures and this caused the lung
artery  to harden. I don't know if that happens in HCM though.

Lyn..:)

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lyn,

My understanding is that the body manufactures CoQ10.  When you start
supplementing, the body reduces its own production.  Therefore, if you stop
suddenly, the body doesn't have enough.

If you decrease the dose gradually, it gives the body a chance to
compensate.  If you stop suddenly, there is little to no CoQ10 in the body
until it gets a chance to recover.  I don't know how long that takes.



Sue and angels Pepper & Gandy
with Nicholai, Lola-Joy and Isabella



----- Original Message -----
From: <elfinmyst@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 6:34 AM
Subject: [FH] Re: coQ10


> Hi Sue
>
> Can you explain what the health problem is when dropping CoQ10. When Trixi
> had her heart attack and went to the hospital, she missed it for a week
> and
> I  didn't dare put her back on the Cardio S in case it unbalanced her. Now
> I`m  worried after reading your post.
>
> Thanks :)
>
> Lyn
>