I bought an inexpensive stethoscope at a nursing uniform supply company.
They are also available online or at medical school bookstores.

I counted for 15-30 seconds and multiplied by 4 or 2
depending on how tolerant the cat was. 140-160 is pretty easy to count.
Over 200 was much harder to count and I left it at over 200.

I liked listening to the heart because I could note changes in the
heart rhythm.  I noticed an extra sound at one point.  I didn't know
what it was, but noted the change for the vet/cardiologist.

Best,

Nala

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
>
> I'd love to check Tigger --- how do you measure it if it's so fast??

My cat did not experience trembling with her HCM.  At one point she did
develop muscle weakness due to long term use of furosemide which can
lead to depletion of potassium (K+) which can cause weakness.  A blood test
will reveal potassium levels.  Potassium supplementation is DANGEROUS
however, without monitoring blood K+ levels as too much potassium
can cause death.  My vet was able to run a small panel in house that looked
at only a handful of electrolyte values (sodium, potassium, calcium)
rather than a full-scale screen.
The small panel ran $25-35.

Best,

Nala

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "ddvancleave2" <ddvancleave2@...> wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever experienced trembling in their cats with HCM?  My cat recently
started shaking and I'm wondering if this is part of HCM or a precursor to
another episode of heart failure.
>

I have lit a candle for Carol's Snowball.  My deepest and heartfelt sympathies
for your loss, Carol and Steve.
Pat

"They that love beyond the world cannot be separated from it.
Death cannot kill what never dies.
Nor can spirits ever be divided, that love and live in the same divine
principle, the root and record of their friendship.
If absence be not death, neither is theirs.
Death is but crossing the world, as friends do the seas;
They live in one another still."

--William Penn, More Fruits of Solitude


----- Original Message -----
From: mcgivney <mcgivney@...>
Date: Saturday, January 2, 2010 8:28 am
Subject: [FH] Re: Snowball - candle
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com

> Looks like they dropped the link - it is
> http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Snowb
> --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Carole McGivney
> <mcgivney@...> wrote:
> >
> > I know many of us feel the pain of recently departed pets
> including Snowball who fought so valiantly.  If anyone else
> would like to light a candle here is a link
> >
> > I signed the first candle with the name of my little man, Saylor.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

What a beautiful girl..I know it hurts so much but please don't blame yourself
Carol. You did all you could for her and nowhere she could have had better care
and love. When we grieve we try to blame ourselves and others or what is closer
in an effort to explain to us why that loved one left us.  Of no confort now but
I hope you'll feel better in time and I know Snowball will always be watching
over you
Marta

 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My 4 1/2 year old Toby suddenly started limping on his front left leg and
meowing in pain last night. The ER vet said it is cardiomyopathy and he threw a
clot. I could give him baby asprin, but it would be more for me that Toby. I
took him into our usual clinic today and they agree but encouraged the asprin. I
have an appt for Tuesday with a cardiologist.
Tonight, Toby is still limping, the affect leg is still noticible cooler, and he
has been sleeping all day, which is not normal. He is not meowing painfully
anymore but it stll bothers him.
Any help, suggestions, info, websites would be helpful. I only have a phone to
access the Internet so researching is quite difficult.
Also any ideas on how to cope with this would be good. My other kitty is 14 and
diagnosed with renal failure less than 3 months ago. I am beyond devastated.
Thanks.
Helen

The link to the candle is
http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=Snowb and a twitter
link to how Snowball is doing is http://twitter.com/pepismartdog - with the
Twitter link search for messages to SaylorMcGivney.

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Carole McGivney <mcgivney@...> wrote:
>
> I know many of us feel the pain of recently departed pets including Snowball
who fought so valiantly.  If anyone else would like to light a candle here is a
link
>
> I signed the first candle with the name of my little man, Saylor.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Helen;  please find a cardiologist in your area and take Toby to them...he
needs to have an echo to determine the extent of heart disease he has and the
type.  Then medications can be addressed for him.  This is not as terrible a
diagnosis as it initially sounds, these cats can be treated successfully for
many years in many cases without having serious problems.  It is a progressive
disease howeve, and he does need treatment.  Most vets don't understand heart
disease and how to treat it, so a cardiologist is strongly suggested (or an
internal medicine specialist if there is no cardiologist available in your area.
It is important that Toby get treatment quickly to save his leg and prevent
further clots.  There are lots of people on this blog who can share their
stories with you, don't be discouraged, and the high cost of a cardiologist and
echo will be offset quickly by the quality of advice they can provide.  Good
luck to you and Toby...Judi and Max







To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
From: sparklejunkey@...
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 09:31:04 +0000
Subject: [FH] Just diagnosed with cardiomyopathy





My 4 1/2 year old Toby suddenly started limping on his front left leg and
meowing in pain last night. The ER vet said it is cardiomyopathy and he threw a
clot. I could give him baby asprin, but it would be more for me that Toby. I
took him into our usual clinic today and they agree but encouraged the asprin. I
have an appt for Tuesday with a cardiologist.
Tonight, Toby is still limping, the affect leg is still noticible cooler, and he
has been sleeping all day, which is not normal. He is not meowing painfully
anymore but it stll bothers him.
Any help, suggestions, info, websites would be helpful. I only have a phone to
access the Internet so researching is quite difficult.
Also any ideas on how to cope with this would be good. My other kitty is 14 and
diagnosed with renal failure less than 3 months ago. I am beyond devastated.
Thanks.
Helen






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When I was trying to help Tootsie, Mellie was about 2 or 3 ft away watching and
she stayed right there as we wrapped Toots in a warm blanket to take her to the
emergency center.  I did ask the vet if we could or should bring Tootsie's body
back for Mellie to see and she said if Mellie was watching then she knew...and
we do believe she knows.  The two were not close at all but there were times
these last few weeks when I'd see Mellie a bit closer to Toots than normal, and
that evening Mellie was resting near Tootsie's bed and this morning about 6am
Mellie was bellowing but my brotherinlaw had gotten up to go to the bathroom and
I think she wondered why someone wasn't coming down (she doesn't do stairs on
her own)...so I went down and brought her back up to bed with me and she settled
right down.  We are watching her carefully though and she has a cardiology
checkup in a couple weeks, Tootsie was to have one also, sad to cancel it.

carol


--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, janie <sockster@...> wrote:
>
> I am so sorry. It seems we have lost a few here lately but we have
> kept some going too. I hope you showed Millie her sister. I found over
> the years that if I laid them there like in a box or sorta like a
> funeral visitation all my cats and dogs could see them. I also did
> this as I was not ready to let go. When my very first two died 9
> months apart. I did not bring home. I think their brother walked down
> the hall meowing for years looking in each room as he was calling
> them. So I did this on the rest. Prayers for you all. Janie
>

Dear Helen (and Toby),

Welcome to the group, although I am sorry that you had to seek us out.
I agree with Judi, seeing a cardiologist or an internal medicine vet with
experience in cardiology is ideal.

What Toby experienced does sound like a clot, they can be quite
painful for some kitties.  Aspirin is given quite commonly, although
my veterinary cardiologist prefers Plavix to aspirin (though it is
expensive).

Although cardiomyopathy is probably the most common reason for a kitty
to have a blood clot, I wonder what the diagnosis of cardiomyopathy was
based on?  Heart murmur combined with clot? X-ray showing enlarged
heart?  Echocardiogram (ultrasound of the heart?) If the echo was
performed, what kind of cardiomyopathy was diagnosed?  There are
three main forms, hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (HCM), restrictive
cardiomyopathy (RCM) and dilated cardiomyopathy (DCM).  The
treatments are somewhat varied between these forms.

A cardiologist will perform an echocardiogram to determine what exactly
might be going on with the heart.  Sometimes they will also perform
an EKG (electrocardiogram) to observe the heart rhythm.  The good news
is that there are some heart diseases that are treatable and manageable.
The bad news is that kitties who have experienced one clot are thought
to be at higher risk for a second clot.

If Toby is still experiencing pain, then I would ask for a pain medicine,
perhaps buprenex.

It is concerning that his leg is cool, because this suggests that the clot
is still effecting circulation to that limb.  What will happen, is that
over time, the body will resorb the clot.

Please look through the old posts for Meredith and her kitty Monkey.
I believe she signed most of her posts with "meredith and monkey"
She nursed him through a clot, as have several other members here.

I myself have NOT experienced a clot in my kitties, so I have don't have
any specific advice.

Best to you both!

Nala with Camille and angel Cozette



--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "sparklejunkey" <sparklejunkey@...> wrote:
>
> My 4 1/2 year old Toby suddenly started limping on his front left leg and
meowing in pain last night. The ER vet said it is cardiomyopathy and he threw a
clot. I could give him baby asprin, but it would be more for me that Toby. I
took him into our usual clinic today and they agree but encouraged the asprin. I
have an appt for Tuesday with a cardiologist.
> Tonight, Toby is still limping, the affect leg is still noticible cooler, and
he has been sleeping all day, which is not normal. He is not meowing painfully
anymore but it stll bothers him.
> Any help, suggestions, info, websites would be helpful. I only have a phone to
access the Internet so researching is quite difficult.
> Also any ideas on how to cope with this would be good. My other kitty is 14
and diagnosed with renal failure less than 3 months ago. I am beyond devastated.
> Thanks.
> Helen
>

Hi - I'm so grateful to find this list!  I'm Jan and it's on behalf of my
beloved Prin that I was looking - she's around 11 years old we think, came to us
as a feral girl and we've been through quite a number of health related issues
in that time.  This last year has been full of stresses for her (selling our
house and moving a state away just to begin with) - but I pay attention to her
and her sister and all the little signs about how they're doing.  This past
Tuesday she'd quite "suddenly" started refusing food, had lost weight, and from
prior experiences I panic'd when none of the usual routines for getting her back
on track worked.  Day 2 of food refusal I took her to vet - one new to us
because we just moved here as of Sept. 1.  Turns out we got very lucky - this
vet and animal hospital less than a mile from us is fantastic - full panel of
Labs done - she did eat some while in kennel there (redirected frustration and
anger I think, more than anything else - LOL!) - but I knew from overnight that
things were still not right - so back to the vet we went at 8 am... New Years
Eve.  This time Xrays which showed enlarged heart and vessels nearby... and God
Bless 'Em they got us in with a cardiologist not far away at 3PM... New Years
Eve.  Ultrasound showed unquestionable Hypertrophic CM, Congestive Heart
Failure, and Pericardial effusion.  And I think I was in worse shape than she
was.  We left with prescriptions for Lasix, Enalapril, mirtazapine, and 1/2 baby
asprin twice a week (because of a prior experience with a kitty suffering saddle
thrombosis I was and remain terrified of that for her --- so very glad to read
here that some do indeed recover from that!  I'm holding on to what I know is
only thin hope that it might indeed help her avoid one of those)

Even though I've only been initiated into this new world a few days ago, there's
a lesson I've already learned that I'd like to offer any other newbies to this
world of feline CM: the side effects of these drugs are indeed cumulative -- the
cardiologist moved up her 1/4 tab of mirtazapine to every other day rather than
every three days her vet had prescribed -- and apparently in combination with
the Lasix and te Enalapril, it was too much of something (hope to explore that
with cardiologist by phone tomorrow morning sometime) -- and it is only thanks
to the follow up phone call from the vet on Saturday afternoon that persuaded me
to hold on and kept me hoping she'd pull out of the overwhelming lethergy she
was exhibiting -- i.e., that what I was seeing was quite possibly only that and
NOT her further decline and withdrawl from this world (though it is also quite
possible that that might indeed have been what was going on -- in this case
though it turned out that it wasn't, I was to find - to my great delight and
relief that I'd not made that decision to let her go because of all I was
seeing!).

Prin and I have had some precious moments since her diagnosis - I'll always be
grateful for those.  There's much I've yet to learn and again I'm so grateful to
get to read of the stories here.  Please know that all who've written are indeed
leaving mana for newbies like us who follow (and I'm well aware that many for
whom these thanks are meant may never know how much they've helped! May their
good done here return to them where ever they are now!)

Her first follow up with the cardiologist is Thursday.  I don't know how long
our money will hold out for further treatments, labs, evals, and so on but I'm
sure going to do all we can.  Still, I may need to take some flowers by for her
vet.  Thank heavens for such angels!

Much love to all - in many ways I wish we were the only ones going through this
(insert favorite descriptive word for "awful/horrendous/terrifying experience"
here) - wouldn't wish this kind of pain on anyone or any thing.  Yet also -
there are beautiful words and tributes here which all come from having "been
there" and "managing with it all anyway".  Thank heavens for y'all too.

Anyway - Hi - and more later.  All best wishes, Jan

Hi Helen

I`m sorry to hear your Toby has cardiomyopathy. I have a Toby as well and
he;'s also 4. You are absolutely right to see a cardiologist as if Toby has
thrown a clot, he might have heart disease which needs treating. The only
experience I have of clots is Trixi who had a cardiac one which damaged her
heart. Usually the clots stick in the rear artery branch to the back legs,
but  if the leg is cooler, then it is likely this is what has happened.

I use Plavix, because its better tolerated for Trixi. Nattokinase dissolves
  the clots but as you see the cardiologist tomorrow, who will certainly
order an  ultrasound, you can see what's happening with Toby's heart.

Let us know.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jan

I am sorry to hear of Prin (Is that short for Princess? :) ) Your feelings
were absolutely spot on and it is not abnormal for cats to be diagnosed at
the  heart failure stage. They're so good at hiding the symptoms. Now she
has  tablets, it will help to stabilise her heart, my little girl has been in
heart  failure for over three years now and has not got any worse, although
I know each  day is a miracle.

The most important thing is to get that fluid off her lungs. That will make
  her feel dreadful and she needs the lasix to clear that. The cardiologist
follow  up will tell if its working. My biggest fear is a clot as well,
having had two  HCM kitties with them (although none to the rear legs: mine were
a heart clot  and a brain clot which caused a fit) The cats have plavix and
nattokinase  for the older boy who had the fit. And as far as I know there
are no side  effects from either of those.

I also give cardiostrength daily which is a heart supplement.

:) Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My little Winston is still full of fluid...we cant seem to keep it away. He is
now on diltiazem (8 mgs 2x daily), baby asprin every 72 hours, enalapril (2.5 mg
1x daily) and lasix (up to 25 mgs daily). During the week, I split the lasix
into 2 doses, on the weekends I do three doses. I work, so I cant get 3 doses
into him during the week.

Has anyone experienced weeks of CHF? And what worked for you?

We just started the enalapril yesterday. We were on atenolol but switched to
diltiazem about a month ago because of respiratory issues. The diltiazem is
working, because the cardiologist noticed that his heart beat sounded more
stable/regular.

Any suggestions??

Hugs,

Melissa and Winston

think about adding pimonbenden.

Good luck - Winston will be in my prayers.

Cathy

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "smittyhj82" <smittyhj82@...> wrote:
>
> My little Winston is still full of fluid...we cant seem to keep it away. He is
now on diltiazem (8 mgs 2x daily), baby asprin every 72 hours, enalapril (2.5 mg
1x daily) and lasix (up to 25 mgs daily). During the week, I split the lasix
into 2 doses, on the weekends I do three doses. I work, so I cant get 3 doses
into him during the week.
>
> Has anyone experienced weeks of CHF? And what worked for you?
>
> We just started the enalapril yesterday. We were on atenolol but switched to
diltiazem about a month ago because of respiratory issues. The diltiazem is
working, because the cardiologist noticed that his heart beat sounded more
stable/regular.
>
> Any suggestions??
>
> Hugs,
>
> Melissa and Winston
>

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for the suggestions and help with research!
Toby is doing a little better.  He is limping less and hasn't been vocal about
pain since Saturday.  The clinic is having me do massage therapy and range of
motion on the affected leg and aspirn 2x a week.
We see the Cardiologist tomorrow.

Toby is sleeping more than usual and he seems a little cold (but it's cold in my
house even with the heat cranked).  Sometimes all 4 of his legs tremor for a
second or so and then relax and then tremor again - like he's clenching and
relaxing his leg muscles...It's weird and all I can assume is that he is cold. 
It usually stops when I move him to his heated pet bed or put a blanket on him.
But he still gets up and plays a little, is eating and drinking well, and uses
his litter box just fine. And since his limp is better and he's not holding his
paw out to me as much, I am hopefull that he is improving from this episode.

Please keep the info coming - its been so helpful as my internet access is
limited!  Even suggestion on what to ask the cardiologist tomorrow.  Is there
anything you wish you had known at the begining?  Anything you are glad you knew
to ask about?

Thanks!

Helen, Zima, and Toby.

Poor baby.  Maybe he's cold -- do you have a heating pad, to set on very low --
it will help him.  Keep him nice and warm, it will help
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: sparklejunkey
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 12:56 PM
   Subject: [FH] Toby Update



   Hi everyone,

   Thank you so much for the suggestions and help with research!
   Toby is doing a little better. He is limping less and hasn't been vocal about
pain since Saturday. The clinic is having me do massage therapy and range of
motion on the affected leg and aspirn 2x a week.
   We see the Cardiologist tomorrow.

   Toby is sleeping more than usual and he seems a little cold (but it's cold in
my house even with the heat cranked). Sometimes all 4 of his legs tremor for a
second or so and then relax and then tremor again - like he's clenching and
relaxing his leg muscles...It's weird and all I can assume is that he is cold.
It usually stops when I move him to his heated pet bed or put a blanket on him.
But he still gets up and plays a little, is eating and drinking well, and uses
his litter box just fine. And since his limp is better and he's not holding his
paw out to me as much, I am hopefull that he is improving from this episode.

   Please keep the info coming - its been so helpful as my internet access is
limited! Even suggestion on what to ask the cardiologist tomorrow. Is there
anything you wish you had known at the begining? Anything you are glad you knew
to ask about?

   Thanks!

   Helen, Zima, and Toby.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear everyone,



Steve and I were overwhelmed and so touched by the outpouring of love and caring
from everyone. All the candles lit and the beautiful messages, we wept with each
one.



Thank you so much for caring and for all the prayers and condolences.  I think
we got over 300 messages in the past two days. That's just amazing that so many
cared about our little Snowball.  I hope I can reply to each of you personally,
it may take a while. I'm still in shock and can't seem to get that day out of my
mind. I cry constantly and can't sleep or eat.  I know many of you know the
feeling.  I just don't have any energy to write to everyone right now, but
please accept my most sincere thanks for all the candles, prayers, messages and
love for Snowball and us.  We're so touched and are so grateful for you all.



In Snowball's 18 years 7 months and 21 days on this earth, she changed our lives
forever and we miss her more than words can say.



Thanks, everyone.



hugs,

Carol & Angel Snowball *5/10/91 to 1/1/10*


& the gang

http://carolandsteveskitties.shutterfly.com/
Snowball in the garden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o6bLwo5jPE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxKQH2mM-d0
Snowball Christmas Day 12/25/09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqO6UZ4a3VE




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi All,

Just got back from the vet with Annabelle. They were unable to do the dental for
fear of her heartrate being 240-280. They mentioned about us having an
echocardiogram on her to check for HCM. What kinda of costs could i expect for
this procedure and for medications. Annabelle is the perfect little Himalayan
and has showed no signs so far. Just the heartrate today.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

Thanks
Concerned Dad (MATT)

Hi Matt;

----- Original Message -----
From: "mghayes_scc" <mghayes_scc@...>
>They mentioned about us having an echocardiogram on her to check for HCM.
>What kinda of costs could i expect for this procedure and for >medications.
>Annabelle is the perfect little Himalayan and has showed no signs so far.
>Just the heartrate today.

The general consensus on here with everyone who has had testing done is that
it has given our veterinarians the advantage of being able to make the
appropriate diagnosis, that can, in a lot of cases, allow for many more
years of good living for your cat.  The vet can't make choices without the
tools.

HTH......Pat and all the boys
http://felinenutritionalnotes.blogspot.com/
http://petfoodpitfalls.blogspot.com/
http://eliminationdietforpets.blogspot.com/

Thank you so much to everyone for your lovely messages for me and Marley.  I
cried lots reading them and they really did help me to cope and not feel alone. 
The poems and short stories that were posted were beautiful and helped me to
trust and believe that Marley is now somewhere healthy, happy and well and
waiting for me when my time will come.

Marley's little son Ozzie is missing her very much and seems so lonely and sad,
so I am thinking of getting him a little friend soon to help take away the pain.

Marley's heart has been donated to the veterinary University here in the UK to
assist with research into HCM and I hope it will help in finding reasons and a
cure for this horrible disease.

Take care everyone and good luck with your kitties.
xxx

Hi everyone. I took Winston to the vet last night....after he sounded very
stuffy and huffy puffy on Sunday night/Monday morning. We didnt even do chest
x-ray, as the vet could pin point fluid right near the apex of the
heart....obvoiusly we need lasix. They gave him 10 mg of lasix subq. He seemed a
bit better but I still dont think the fluid is all gone....

These are his current meds:

25 mg lasix (split in 2 doses, 12.5 mgs each)
2.5 mg Enalapril once daily
8 mgs Diltiazem 2x daily
75 mg carnitine daily

We were giving 12.5 mgs of lasix a day, then 18.75 mgs daily and now 25- all
within the last 10-12 days. We just cant get the fluid to go away. Please Note:
we just started on enalapril Sunday night- so we are PRAYING that it will give
his heart the strength it needs, but I am guessing we will not see any signs of
it working for a few weeks? We do know the diltiazem is working well, slowing
down the heart beat, more steady defined beat.

My regular vet (who I have to see after hours and on weekends) is not the
cardiologist, but remains in close contact with the cardiologist with EVERY
decision. They are very good, and i am blessed to be a client of such a well
versed local clinic. We discussed PIMOBENDEN/VEDMEDIN last night, as well as
SPIRONOLACTONE.

For those of you who have fought the battle with fluid/CHF, can you tell me if
you use either of the above (Pimobenden or Sprio) and when the decision was made
to add these? Also if you use Spiro, what dose of lasix accompanies this? Also,
what other meds does you kitty take?

I guess I am just getting nervous because we are not able to control the CHF.

Also, Pimobenden? Is this in the calcium channel blocker family???? I guess I am
unclear on what other meds can accompany the administration of this drug.....

Hi

It depends where you are. An ultrasound scan is about £280 here in the UK
and is invaluable for diagnosing heart problems, but there are other reasons
for  a fast heart rate too.

Hyperthyroid, anaemia.. you might need blood tests too and of course heart
rate can increase due to stress. Did Annabelle have a murmur at all or
signs of  a heart problem and how old is she?

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If lasix alone doesn't work,. add spironolactone as the two together
sometimes work better and can be used safely. You cardio or vet should be able
to prescribe that and that's a twice daily diuretic.

If there's still fluid, then you might need a chest tap or intravenous
lasix to get on top of it initially. Vetmedin has been a wonder drug for my
cats  too.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

If lasix alone doesn't work,. add spironolactone as the two together
sometimes work better and can be used safely. You cardio or vet should be able
to prescribe that and that's a twice daily diuretic.

If there's still fluid, then you might need a chest tap or intravenous
lasix to get on top of it initially. Vetmedin has been a wonder drug for my
cats  too.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,
   My cat, also named Winston, is on Pimobendan. He was put on it last May
when he went into CHF following an unrelated operation to remove a benign tumor.
Prior to the operation his breathing was rapid and that's what brought us to the
vets where they diagnosed with an xray and ultrasound that he had this growth
called a Thymoma in his chest. They successfully removed the thymoma and it was
while he was recovering from this that he went into CHF. Then we got the awful
news that he had "end stage" HCM. He was in the hospital for nearly 2 weeks and
they were trying to get the right drug combination - tricky because of the
kidneys as you may know yourself.
 
     Pimobendan was offered as the one drug that might help him but not
adversely affect the kidney. It worked and Winston went home a few days after
they started him on it. He's on it twice a day now and he's doing well -- still
a "scant" amount of fluid in his chest which he gets checked on a regular basis
but all in all he's doing remarkably well for having had such a bad prognosis.

    My understanding of Pimobendan is that it is still not common protocall
for cats - more often used in dogs and usually only used in cats with more
severe HCM. I dont know if it's the best thing for your Winston, but it's been a
wonderful thing for mine. I think it's worth checking into for sure. Probably
others here have experience with Pimobendan as well and could tell you more.
It's not for every cat for sure but I think in some cases, it can be very
effective. It appears to be effective with mine for sure,
    Good luck and let us know how it all goes,
 Cathy & Winston in Massachusetts (There'sa lot of Winstons on here)

At the height of laughter, the universe is flung into a kaleidoscope of new
possibilities. ~Jean Houston

--- On Tue, 1/5/10, smittyhj82 <smittyhj82@...> wrote:


From: smittyhj82 <smittyhj82@...>
Subject: [FH] Another Winston Update.....?'s on Pimobenden and Spiro....
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 11:34 AM


 



Hi everyone. I took Winston to the vet last night....after he sounded very
stuffy and huffy puffy on Sunday night/Monday morning. We didnt even do chest
x-ray, as the vet could pin point fluid right near the apex of the
heart....obvoiusly we need lasix. They gave him 10 mg of lasix subq. He seemed a
bit better but I still dont think the fluid is all gone....

These are his current meds:

25 mg lasix (split in 2 doses, 12.5 mgs each)
2.5 mg Enalapril once daily
8 mgs Diltiazem 2x daily
75 mg carnitine daily

We were giving 12.5 mgs of lasix a day, then 18.75 mgs daily and now 25- all
within the last 10-12 days. We just cant get the fluid to go away. Please Note:
we just started on enalapril Sunday night- so we are PRAYING that it will give
his heart the strength it needs, but I am guessing we will not see any signs of
it working for a few weeks? We do know the diltiazem is working well, slowing
down the heart beat, more steady defined beat.

My regular vet (who I have to see after hours and on weekends) is not the
cardiologist, but remains in close contact with the cardiologist with EVERY
decision. They are very good, and i am blessed to be a client of such a well
versed local clinic. We discussed PIMOBENDEN/VEDMEDIN last night, as well as
SPIRONOLACTONE.

For those of you who have fought the battle with fluid/CHF, can you tell me if
you use either of the above (Pimobenden or Sprio) and when the decision was made
to add these? Also if you use Spiro, what dose of lasix accompanies this? Also,
what other meds does you kitty take?

I guess I am just getting nervous because we are not able to control the CHF.

Also, Pimobenden? Is this in the calcium channel blocker family???? I guess I am
unclear on what other meds can accompany the administration of this drug.....











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi, I posted a while ago about Pye's sneezing blood. She is 12 and was diagnosed
with mild HCM 2.5 years ago which last year became severe HCM. The upper
chambers of her heart are extremely enlarged. She is on atenolol, enalapril,
furosemide, plavix (which we thought might be why she sneezed blood droplets),
Cosequin for arthritis and Flovent for asthma. A couple months ago she was
sneezing a lot (all our cats were) and once she sneezed a little spray of blood.

Our vet said it was probably just seasonal allergies and because she is on
plavix she may be more prone to nosebleeds when sneezing hard. I also mentioned
it to our cardiologist and he didn't think it was anything of concern.

However, over the holidays her symptoms have worsened, with chronic mucus
discharge from one nostril, often with specks of dried blood, and a watery eye.
The vet said that because she is on Lasix and Flovent, both of which dry out the
nasal passages, combined with the plavix, she may have constant nasal irritation
that led to a sinus infection. She did a physical examination and a CBC, but any
further diagnostics require sedation which she can't have. She has not responded
to amoxicillin so yesterday she started on Baytril to get rid of the infection.

I have read enough about these symptoms to know that a nasal tumor is a strong
possibility, even though I hate to think it. However, my vet talked to the
cardiologist and he advised against any kind of sedation or anesthesia to try to
get a diagnosis. Basically I was told there is nothing they can do to help her
except try different antibiotics. The cardiologist said that if it's allergies,
he still recommends against even an antihistamine unless she is in severe
distress, which she isn't yet.

Has anyone else been in this situation? I had assumed that if it is a tumor,
they could do chemo or radiation even with a heart kitty, but if they won't risk
sedation even to diagnose, I don't know what to do. So far Pye acts normally, as
she has all along despite severe heart disease, and I am having a hard time
imagining just watching her get worse and doing nothing.

Should I see another vet? Does anyone know of any other kind of diagnostic that
could be done without sedation? I feel like my vet is giving up on her and we
don't even know what's wrong.

Thanks--
Susan

Hi Susan,

I'm sorry to hear that sweet little Pye is still having these problems. 
Although I can't comment on the cause of the problems, I'd like to suggest
something to help eleviate them and to make her more comfortable.  I've had a
score of similar problems with my kitties as I've taken in many ferals.  Rather
than using antibiotics, I've found that using steam really helps clear the
discharges and makes them much more comfortable while their little bodies are
fighting it off.  I usually lock the affected kitty up in the bathroom and turn
on the hot water in the shower for a minute to fill the room with steam.  It
works on humans, too, so I trust it is helping the kitties.

Best wishes to you and Pye,

Cathy




________________________________
From: dshale1 <Dshale1@...>
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 10:27:56 AM
Subject: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?


Hi, I posted a while ago about Pye's sneezing blood. She is 12 and was diagnosed
with mild HCM 2.5 years ago which last year became severe HCM. The upper
chambers of her heart are extremely enlarged. She is on atenolol, enalapril,
furosemide, plavix (which we thought might be why she sneezed blood droplets),
Cosequin for arthritis and Flovent for asthma. A couple months ago she was
sneezing a lot (all our cats were) and once she sneezed a little spray of blood.

Our vet said it was probably just seasonal allergies and because she is on
plavix she may be more prone to nosebleeds when sneezing hard. I also mentioned
it to our cardiologist and he didn't think it was anything of concern.

However, over the holidays her symptoms have worsened, with chronic mucus
discharge from one nostril, often with specks of dried blood, and a watery eye.
The vet said that because she is on Lasix and Flovent, both of which dry out the
nasal passages, combined with the plavix, she may have constant nasal irritation
that led to a sinus infection. She did a physical examination and a CBC, but any
further diagnostics require sedation which she can't have. She has not responded
to amoxicillin so yesterday she started on Baytril to get rid of the infection.

I have read enough about these symptoms to know that a nasal tumor is a strong
possibility, even though I hate to think it. However, my vet talked to the
cardiologist and he advised against any kind of sedation or anesthesia to try to
get a diagnosis. Basically I was told there is nothing they can do to help her
except try different antibiotics. The cardiologist said that if it's allergies,
he still recommends against even an antihistamine unless she is in severe
distress, which she isn't yet.

Has anyone else been in this situation? I had assumed that if it is a tumor,
they could do chemo or radiation even with a heart kitty, but if they won't risk
sedation even to diagnose, I don't know what to do. So far Pye acts normally, as
she has all along despite severe heart disease, and I am having a hard time
imagining just watching her get worse and doing nothing.

Should I see another vet? Does anyone know of any other kind of diagnostic that
could be done without sedation? I feel like my vet is giving up on her and we
don't even know what's wrong.

Thanks--
Susan




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes, this is a great idea --- be careful of the hot water tho -- put Pye in a
carrier, and put the carrier next to the tub with the hot water running.  I did
that for Tigger when he had  bordatella when I first bought him -- it helped a
lot.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Cathy Mack
   To: dshale1 ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:37 PM
   Subject: Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?



   Hi Susan,

   I'm sorry to hear that sweet little Pye is still having these problems.
Although I can't comment on the cause of the problems, I'd like to suggest
something to help eleviate them and to make her more comfortable. I've had a
score of similar problems with my kitties as I've taken in many ferals. Rather
than using antibiotics, I've found that using steam really helps clear the
discharges and makes them much more comfortable while their little bodies are
fighting it off. I usually lock the affected kitty up in the bathroom and turn
on the hot water in the shower for a minute to fill the room with steam. It
works on humans, too, so I trust it is helping the kitties.

   Best wishes to you and Pye,

   Cathy

   ________________________________
   From: dshale1 <Dshale1@...>
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wed, January 6, 2010 10:27:56 AM
   Subject: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?

   Hi, I posted a while ago about Pye's sneezing blood. She is 12 and was
diagnosed with mild HCM 2.5 years ago which last year became severe HCM. The
upper chambers of her heart are extremely enlarged. She is on atenolol,
enalapril, furosemide, plavix (which we thought might be why she sneezed blood
droplets), Cosequin for arthritis and Flovent for asthma. A couple months ago
she was sneezing a lot (all our cats were) and once she sneezed a little spray
of blood.

   Our vet said it was probably just seasonal allergies and because she is on
plavix she may be more prone to nosebleeds when sneezing hard. I also mentioned
it to our cardiologist and he didn't think it was anything of concern.

   However, over the holidays her symptoms have worsened, with chronic mucus
discharge from one nostril, often with specks of dried blood, and a watery eye.
The vet said that because she is on Lasix and Flovent, both of which dry out the
nasal passages, combined with the plavix, she may have constant nasal irritation
that led to a sinus infection. She did a physical examination and a CBC, but any
further diagnostics require sedation which she can't have. She has not responded
to amoxicillin so yesterday she started on Baytril to get rid of the infection.

   I have read enough about these symptoms to know that a nasal tumor is a strong
possibility, even though I hate to think it. However, my vet talked to the
cardiologist and he advised against any kind of sedation or anesthesia to try to
get a diagnosis. Basically I was told there is nothing they can do to help her
except try different antibiotics. The cardiologist said that if it's allergies,
he still recommends against even an antihistamine unless she is in severe
distress, which she isn't yet.

   Has anyone else been in this situation? I had assumed that if it is a tumor,
they could do chemo or radiation even with a heart kitty, but if they won't risk
sedation even to diagnose, I don't know what to do. So far Pye acts normally, as
she has all along despite severe heart disease, and I am having a hard time
imagining just watching her get worse and doing nothing.

   Should I see another vet? Does anyone know of any other kind of diagnostic
that could be done without sedation? I feel like my vet is giving up on her and
we don't even know what's wrong.

   Thanks--
   Susan

   [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, the vet did recommend that we raise the humidity in the house and take
her in the bathroom with us when we took a shower or bath. I have also put a
vaporizer near where she sleeps. It's been a week since we started doing those
things and I think she may be sneezing less but when she does there is still
yellow or bloody mucus discharge and her eye is still watering profusely.
-Susan

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
>
> yes, this is a great idea --- be careful of the hot water tho -- put Pye in a
carrier, and put the carrier next to the tub with the hot water running.  I did
that for Tigger when he had  bordatella when I first bought him -- it helped a
lot.
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Cathy Mack
>   To: dshale1 ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:37 PM
>   Subject: Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?
>
>
>
>   Hi Susan,
>
>   I'm sorry to hear that sweet little Pye is still having these problems.
Although I can't comment on the cause of the problems, I'd like to suggest
something to help eleviate them and to make her more comfortable. I've had a
score of similar problems with my kitties as I've taken in many ferals. Rather
than using antibiotics, I've found that using steam really helps clear the
discharges and makes them much more comfortable while their little bodies are
fighting it off. I usually lock the affected kitty up in the bathroom and turn
on the hot water in the shower for a minute to fill the room with steam. It
works on humans, too, so I trust it is helping the kitties.
>
>   Best wishes to you and Pye,
>
>   Cathy
>

wel, that runny eye and some of the sneezing could be plain ole herpes.  Most
cats have it to some degree, some are really bad.  Ask your vet about this.  It
can be controlled with a supplement of lysine, 500 mg twice a day -- but check
to make sure it won't interfere with anything else he's getting.  It takes a
while to work, esp if it's a bad case -- it took me 3 months to see a difference
in Tigger.  But don't stop the lysine, just keep it up - unfortunately herpes is
forever, there is no cure, but the lysine does a great job of controlling it.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: dshale1
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:30 PM
   Subject: Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?



   Thanks, the vet did recommend that we raise the humidity in the house and take
her in the bathroom with us when we took a shower or bath. I have also put a
vaporizer near where she sleeps. It's been a week since we started doing those
things and I think she may be sneezing less but when she does there is still
yellow or bloody mucus discharge and her eye is still watering profusely.
   -Susan

   --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
   >
   > yes, this is a great idea --- be careful of the hot water tho -- put Pye in
a carrier, and put the carrier next to the tub with the hot water running. I did
that for Tigger when he had bordatella when I first bought him -- it helped a
lot.
   > ----- Original Message -----
   > From: Cathy Mack
   > To: dshale1 ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   > Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 2:37 PM
   > Subject: Re: [FH] Options for heart kitties when they can't have anesthesia?
   >
   >
   >
   > Hi Susan,
   >
   > I'm sorry to hear that sweet little Pye is still having these problems.
Although I can't comment on the cause of the problems, I'd like to suggest
something to help eleviate them and to make her more comfortable. I've had a
score of similar problems with my kitties as I've taken in many ferals. Rather
than using antibiotics, I've found that using steam really helps clear the
discharges and makes them much more comfortable while their little bodies are
fighting it off. I usually lock the affected kitty up in the bathroom and turn
on the hot water in the shower for a minute to fill the room with steam. It
works on humans, too, so I trust it is helping the kitties.
   >
   > Best wishes to you and Pye,
   >
   > Cathy
   >





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]