Hello Kendra,

I feel for you and Indy.

My TJ had difficulty walking with his hind legs this past Wednesday.  He is a
patient of Purdue's Small Animal Hospital.  I had been told because of his heart
condition, he has the potential to throw blood clots.  I spoke with his
cardiologist and she felt he might have thrown a small blood clot.  He was
prescribed 1/4 of 75 mg clopidogrel (plavix generic) pill 1X day.  In addition
to his current medicine (1/4 of 5mg benazepril 1x day and 1/4 of 12.5 mg lasix
2X day).


TJ's cardiologist has previously told me there are treatments for saddle
thrombus despite what the literature says.  Purdue Small Animal Hospital is a 24
hr 7 day week facility (tele: 765-494-1107).  They will consult with general
veterinary practitioners.

Based on what I have been told, if a kitty has a heart condition it is assumed
to be HCM unless they can determine otherwise.


It sounds like Indy is being a trooper and has a will to live.   When I see this
in my kitties, I continue to get and give them treatment.  I'd continue to feed
and hydrate.  It might be touch and go for an uncomfortable amount of time.


If he begins to have labored breathing then I'd drive directly to an emergency
vet service.  When TJ was in cogestive heart failure, he was given a lasix
intramuscular injection, followed-up with pill doses.  He received his inital
treatment at the Airport Animal Emergency Hospital in Indianapolis.


Please keep us posted on Indy's health.  I am praying for his solid recovery.

Best,

Gina

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: the use of heparin etc.

Just to clarify, heparin does not dissolve the clot. Its use (usually in a
specific form called fractionated or low molecular weight heparin) in clot cats
is meant to keep the clot from getting bigger, and to help prevent other clots
from forming.  Whether it works for this purpose is not definitively known.

The only clot-busting agent used in these cases would be streptokinase. It is
really almost never used in cats because it is expensive (too expensive to keep
in stock) and quite high-risk.  It breaks up clots indiscriminately (we make
'appropriate' clots all the time) and there is a high risk of reperfusion
injury--what Kendra referred to in the below snippet.  Unless one is there to
witness the clot event and immediately transport the cat to the vet, there is a
risk of fatal reperfusion injury if streptokinase is used.  The treatment for
saddle thrombus is mainly supportive -- pain meds, use of LMW heparin to help
stave off further clot formation, treatment of CHF if it occurs at the same
time, and monitoring for reperfusion injury.  The body can break the clot down,
and if it happens soon enough after the clot is formed, the leg(s) can be saved.
However, a cat who throws one clot is extremely likely to have another, so the
reprieve may be short-lived.

Adriann


--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Kendra DeSantolo <kdesantolo@...> wrote:
> But what the vet said was that we found her too late with
> this condition and once it becomes advanced the circulation has to be
> reintroduced gradually rather than suddenly or else you flood the body with
> toxins (gangrene? or dying tissue?) that could be a horrible trauma to the
> cat even worse than now and cause sudden death of heart muscle and
> kidneys.  She felt strongly about this and said the herbs were strong
> medicine, as aggressive as she could offer (I have seen her herbs work
> miracles in the past). Challenge was getting enough of them into a nauseous
> cat.  And now since Plan A did not work, the limbs may be irreversibly
> damaged. I will post later what the other vet tells me.
>
> Thanks again,
> Kendra
>
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 8, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Banu Korgul <banukorgul@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I am very sorry about your kitty.. I have heard Nattokinase (without vit
> > K) has clot dissolving effects..
> > Maybe you want to try..
> >
> > Best wishes..
> > banu
> >
> >
> > >________________________________
> > > From: Lynn <mosaic.artist@...>
> > >To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com; Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>
> >
> > >Sent: Saturday, December 8, 2012 6:36 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Kendra,
> > >
> > >My heart goes out to you. These are such difficult decisions!!!
> > >
> > >This is such a personal decision, but  I have always wondered, did I do
> > this too early or did I wait too long?
> > >
> > >It sounds like you are not sure; that you are going along with what the
> > vets recommend. I've written to you about our success story on one of the
> > other lists. I do think blood thinners could be important as well as seeing
> > a cardiologist.
> > >
> > >But YOU know your cat. You are seeing positive signs. You could get
> > something to inject for pain if you choose not to euthanize.
> > >
> > >Not being a vet, I don't know. My ki had been paralyzed in his back legs
> > for a least a week when he had CHF. His leg pulses were weak. He was
> > miserable. It was difficult. None of the doctors thought he would survive,
> > but I was lucky none of them told me that, because he is here 8 years later.
> > >
> > >I do think if there is doubt, get a back up plan for pain and nutrition
> > and give it more time until you are sure. So many people get the digest, so
> > I worry they won't get your post in time. Do trying searching the archives.
> > Perhaps you can find information there that may help you.
> > >
> > >All my best to you.
> > >
> > >Lynn
> > >
> > >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >From: Laurie Stead <mailto:kittykatwhiskas%40yahoo.com>
> >
> > >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
> > >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 8:08 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Kendra, I am so sorry about Indy.  I don't have experience with treating
> > this but I do know others in the group have been successful.  I am
> > surprised you were not given medications to dissolve the blood clot and to
> > prevent future ones??  From my understanding it can be very painful and
> > cats are known to cry in pain.  It does not sound like that happened with
> > Indy so perhaps she can recover.
> > >
> > >I am changing the subject with more urgency since you need more info
> > right away.
> > >
> > >We will pray for Indy and keep pawsitive thoughts for her.
> > >
> > >Laurie
> > >
> > >--- On Sat, 12/8/12, kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >From: kltds1 <mailto:kdesantolo%40gmail.com>
> > >
> > >Subject: [FH] Saddle Thrombus
> > >
> > >To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
> >
> > >
> > >Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 10:52 AM
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >Hello,
> > >
> > >I am new to the group and writing because my 4 y.o. cat Indy developed a
> > saddle thrombus. This happened some time Thursday and I found her late
> > Thursday night. The emergency vet said my only option was immediate
> > euthanasia. I took her to my regular vet the next day and we tried herbs to
> > soften the clot, but the lower legs remain without measurable blood
> > pressure at the 48 hour mark, so she, too has now recommended euthanasia.
> > >
> > >She said even if the clot now dissolves she fears the necrotic tissues
> > will overwhelm the cat’s system. Parts of the leg muscles are getting
> > "congested" (swelling with fluids) and she had no pain response in the back
> > legs or tail. Yet when I got home an hour later, Indy started wagging her
> > tail in fact thumping it angrily when I gave her subâ€"Q fluids. So some
> > reanimation is happening in the â€Å"dead� limbs though not in the
legs
> > yet.
> > >
> > >The only reason I continue investigating is because of reading success
> > stories despite the stats. Indy still has fight in her. I have been giving
> > fluids (moderate due to the possible heart condition though she is very
> > dehydrated), force feeding (just Nutrical and water) and Buprenex, but
> > today she is very nauseous so the Buprenex and Nutrical will not stay down.
> > I don’t want her to suffer â€" esp now that the pain meds may not
be
> > staying in her long enough to work. But if anyone has any useful advice, I
> > would rather hear it before we make her final decision today in a few hours.
> > >
> > >Thanks so much,
> > >
> > >Kendra
> > >
> > >__.
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Kendra,

Here is an article on Saddle Thrombosis.The prognosis may be better than your
vet said according to this.
My cat didn't have any necrosis and was paralyzed on and off for several weeks.

Best of luck to you. A cardiologist  might be able to help through the ER,
though I never get good care there.
 http://www.marvistavet.com/html/feline_aortic_thromboembolism.html

Lynn

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I reading this jogged my memory. When my cat had CHF, HCM and then saddle
thrombosis, he was on daily aspirin as part of his medication.  I wonder if this
would help? He regained use of his legs and is still here at 19 years old 8
years after this! 

Praying for a miracle for Indy.

Lynn

--- On Sat, 12/8/12, acrocat@... <acrocat@...> wrote:

From: acrocat@... <acrocat@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] Saddle Thrombus - URGENT NEED HELP ASAP!!!!
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 5:10 PM
















 









       Re: the use of heparin etc.



Just to clarify, heparin does not dissolve the clot. Its use (usually in a
specific form called fractionated or low molecular weight heparin) in clot cats
is meant to keep the clot from getting bigger, and to help prevent other clots
from forming.  Whether it works for this purpose is not definitively known.



The only clot-busting agent used in these cases would be streptokinase. It is
really almost never used in cats because it is expensive (too expensive to keep
in stock) and quite high-risk.  It breaks up clots indiscriminately (we make
'appropriate' clots all the time) and there is a high risk of reperfusion
injury--what Kendra referred to in the below snippet.  Unless one is there to
witness the clot event and immediately transport the cat to the vet, there is a
risk of fatal reperfusion injury if streptokinase is used.  The treatment for
saddle thrombus is mainly supportive -- pain meds, use of LMW heparin to help
stave off further clot formation, treatment of CHF if it occurs at the same
time, and monitoring for reperfusion injury.  The body can break the clot down,
and if it happens soon enough after the clot is formed, the leg(s) can be saved.
However, a cat who throws one clot is extremely likely to have another, so the
reprieve may be short-lived.



Adriann






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Interviewed the first vet about extracting 19 yr old Ki's upper canine. Guess
that is better than the lower, but it has a huge root.

Vet recommended proBNP test if I didn't want to have another echo. Wondering if
anyone has opinions on the accuracy of this test. Apparently if the results say
his heart disease is progressing, then other measures would be taken during his
dental surgery.
http://www.idexx.com/view/xhtml/en_us/corporate/news/press-releases/20080725pr.j\
sf

Thanks,

Lynn

I thought this was only for initial diagnosis? If positive, then you have the
full echo done to figure out the rest.  Am I mistaken?

Laurie

--- On Sat, 12/8/12, lynn49805 <mosaic.artist@...> wrote:

From: lynn49805 <mosaic.artist@...>
Subject: [FH] proBNP test to measure heart function, anyone think this is a
helpful test?
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 8:46 PM
















 









       Interviewed the first vet about extracting 19 yr old Ki's upper canine.
Guess that is better than the lower, but it has a huge root.



Vet recommended proBNP test if I didn't want to have another echo. Wondering if
anyone has opinions on the accuracy of this test. Apparently if the results say
his heart disease is progressing, then other measures would be taken during his
dental surgery.

http://www.idexx.com/view/xhtml/en_us/corporate/news/press-releases/20080725pr.j\
sf



Thanks,



Lynn



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is with a very sad heart that I tell you Indy passed away this
afternoon.  She went to see the cardiologist at UC Davis Vet Teaching
Hospital Emergency Room. Dr. Mueller was an excellent doctor and explained
things well. They had an IV line in and blood work completed before I even
set my purse down (within 5 minutes) and said that her potassium was double
what it should be indicating probably serious kidney damage and a poor
prognosis. They began treatment but Indy was in distress and her heart was
failing so I chose instead to hold her and let her pass quietly.

Next time I encounter something that makes a vet say "There is no treatment
for that." and "Euthanize immediately." I will head for this hospital.  It
was pricey, yes, but not much more than the all-night vets. They had the
resources and experience no one else had, and a unique ability to answer
all my questions which the all-night ER vet just sort of huffed at.  I
decided to have a necroscopy done -- first time I could consider that
indignity to my cat's body -- but it seems important with the science in
this area being so much trial and error.

Sincere thanks to everyone who offered advice, kind thoughts and prayers,
and their own cat-of-their-heart stories.  My heart goes out to anyone else
dealing with this.

Kendra and Angel Indiana


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The blood test only shows the possibility of having the disease occur (if for
example, it hasn't yet) but if a vet believes there is heart trouble, then an
echo is needed and not a blood test. Otherwise, the blood work, if it shows a
positive result, will still require an echo to determine type of heart disease
and how far along it is and types of meds to manage it. 

If the vet believes or has heard heart trouble, then have an echo. Skip the cost
of the blood test.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Laurie & Joanne,

I was told the test could indicate worsening heart function. It is about $125 vs
a $350 echo.  It is predictive of heart events in people and the vet thought it
would help with anesthesia protocol.

Ki
  has had 4 or 5 echocardiograms and the last one was normal but many
years ago.  He had heart failure b/c of IV fluids and  then was diagnosed with
HCM. No treatment for 8 years. He has no murmur or arrhythmia. He had no
coughing and normal
breathing. I know there still can be problems without obvious signs. 
When he was ill, his heart rate was elevated, so I have assumed his heart is
fine, but we still have to be careful.

I don't have the
money for the "Cadillac care": a $1000 dental surgery, $700
anesthesiologist, $400 echo/cardio visit/blood pressure, etc.. Am trying to be
  careful with his health, but keep costs within my means. Will see the
cardiologist this week and see what he thinks. He has lowered the bill without
my asking before, in
part because Ki, an orange tabby, is easy to handle (he has a leash and sits in
a chair
  in the waiting room. Or perhaps b/c he knows I am an
  artist. If I told most people how much I will be spending on a 19 year old
cat when my clothes are worn and have holes and my car is 22 years old, they
would think I
  am insane!

So it is helpful to be in this group.

Lynn

--- On Sat, 12/8/12, joanne marbut <jomarbut@...> wrote:

From: joanne marbut <jomarbut@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] proBNP test to measure heart function, anyone think this is a
helpful test?
To: "feline-heart@yahoogroups.com" <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Saturday, December 8, 2012, 7:44 PM
















 









       The blood test only shows the possibility of having the disease occur (if
for example, it hasn't yet) but if a vet believes there is heart trouble, then
an echo is needed and not a blood test. Otherwise, the blood work, if it shows a
positive result, will still require an echo to determine type of heart disease
and how far along it is and types of meds to manage it. 



If the vet believes or has heard heart trouble, then have an echo. Skip the cost
of the blood test.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Please be sure to trim all replies, especially all the junk that Yahoo puts on
the bottom of the emails. When replies are not trimmed reading the digest can be
nearly impossible. It also takes longer for emails to download for those on a
dial-up connection.


Thanks!


Diane
Feline-Heart List Mom

Kendra, so very, very sorry to hear this, but so glad you found that special
place for Indy, and folks who could explain things to you, and offer you the
kind of help a vet should. I know it was a hard decision to have the necroscopy
done, but I think a wonderful one, especially for the rest of us. It would be
such a tribute to Indy to be able to help some other poor struggling cat. I feel
sure that Indy would gladly volunteer her little body. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blessings,
Lynda, Martha, Morelli & Angel C.B.






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am so sorry to hear of the lose of your kitty.   Are heart kitties are special
little creatures.      Please know we will be saying some extra "paw prayers"
for you and your beloved Indy.


Your knowledge and experience is a gift to the rest of us.


Love,
Jordan and Sheba


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi all,

I wanted to introduce myself and my kitty and give her background (before I
might actually need urgent info in the event of an emergency). This is all new
to me, so I am learning as much as I can, as quickly as I can, so I can become
more attuned to what constitutes an emergency.

Kalysta is my little lymphoma miracle kitty. Diagnosed Labor Day 2007 with large
cell lymphoma, she did 18 months of chemo and this upcoming March will have been
off chemo for 4 years. She was 8 years old when diagnosed and she just had her
14th birthday last month. A LOT of prayer and Daddy-care are got her through
that cruddy disease. (I am a long-term member/moderator of the feline lymphoma
group.)

I took her into the vet on 11/20 because I observed a inconsistent but
unusual-for-her cough/hack. Full bloodwork turned up nothing. Xray should
possible fluid around her lungs, which I later learned was possible pleural
effusion and the cause for her cough/hacking. It was recommended that I visit
with an internist/oncologist, to which I readily agreed, especially after my
lymphoma experience.

On the 26th, the specialist examined her and performed took an ultrasound(s).
The fluid was due to pleural effusion and she was diagnosed with HCM. She was
given Lasix and Benazepril. By this time, Kalysta was already becoming
inappetant and I began syringe-feeding.

On 12/04, I took her back for a followup visit for the fluid. It is gone, so I
am currently weaning her off the Lasix, with the last dose tonight. Kalysta was
still not eating and despite my assisted feeding, she lost a couple of more
ounces. I consented to full body ultrasounds to rule out a lymphoma relapse, and
they came back clean.

So, that is where Kalysta and I are today. She is still not stable on her
weight, although I increased her caloric intake. She now gets ~40 cc's AD
syringed 4 times a day, which is just about 1 can; a LOT for a cat who only eats
dry food normally and should weigh around 9lbs, down to 7lbs now.

She walks very wobbily, which I attribute to her weightloss. Much to my
ignorance regarding HCM, I know that there can be other factors to this
weakness, including throwing a clot, etc, all of which I am trying to learn.
According to an IM who is a member of the lymphoma group, the Lasix can also
cause inappetance and feeling crappy because of the hit on potassium in a cat.

Hanging in there and trying to make sure Kalysta is getting enough
nutrition/food until she eats on her own. I know that this disease will need
daily attention, I know. and here I thought Lymphoma was a long and tough road
to hoe, but it seems like HCM might have even be more taxing.

Bob

Hi Bob,

I am sorry for the HCM dx especially after being through so much already.

Did the cardiologist recommend stopping the lasix?  Although the fluid is gone
(wonderful news!), you want to do what you can to prevent it from returning. 
What dose is she getting?  You may want to cut back over time but weaning her
off it altogether may not be a good idea. 

Did you have the potassium level checked?  This may be the cause of the wobbly
walking and inappetance.

Also, have you tried an appetite stimulant?

In the future, you may want to look into adding Plavix to help prevent blood
clots.  Vetmedin has also been a wonder drug for many in this group.

The best to your Kalysta (luv the name!).

Laurie


--- On Sun, 12/9/12, Bob S <rsifuent@...> wrote:

From: Bob S <rsifuent@...>
Subject: [FH] New Member - Kalysta, and Bob
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 9, 2012, 5:49 PM
















 









       Hi all,



I wanted to introduce myself and my kitty and give her background (before I
might actually need urgent info in the event of an emergency). This is all new
to me, so I am learning as much as I can, as quickly as I can, so I can become
more attuned to what constitutes an emergency.



Kalysta is my little lymphoma miracle kitty. Diagnosed Labor Day 2007 with large
cell lymphoma, she did 18 months of chemo and this upcoming March will have been
off chemo for 4 years. She was 8 years old when diagnosed and she just had her
14th birthday last month. A LOT of prayer and Daddy-care are got her through
that cruddy disease. (I am a long-term member/moderator of the feline lymphoma
group.)



I took her into the vet on 11/20 because I observed a inconsistent but
unusual-for-her cough/hack. Full bloodwork turned up nothing. Xray should
possible fluid around her lungs, which I later learned was possible pleural
effusion and the cause for her cough/hacking. It was recommended that I visit
with an internist/oncologist, to which I readily agreed, especially after my
lymphoma experience.



On the 26th, the specialist examined her and performed took an ultrasound(s).
The fluid was due to pleural effusion and she was diagnosed with HCM. She was
given Lasix and Benazepril. By this time, Kalysta was already becoming
inappetant and I began syringe-feeding.



On 12/04, I took her back for a followup visit for the fluid. It is gone, so I
am currently weaning her off the Lasix, with the last dose tonight. Kalysta was
still not eating and despite my assisted feeding, she lost a couple of more
ounces. I consented to full body ultrasounds to rule out a lymphoma relapse, and
they came back clean.



So, that is where Kalysta and I are today. She is still not stable on her
weight, although I increased her caloric intake. She now gets ~40 cc's AD
syringed 4 times a day, which is just about 1 can; a LOT for a cat who only eats
dry food normally and should weigh around 9lbs, down to 7lbs now.



She walks very wobbily, which I attribute to her weightloss. Much to my
ignorance regarding HCM, I know that there can be other factors to this
weakness, including throwing a clot, etc, all of which I am trying to learn.
According to an IM who is a member of the lymphoma group, the Lasix can also
cause inappetance and feeling crappy because of the hit on potassium in a cat.



Hanging in there and trying to make sure Kalysta is getting enough
nutrition/food until she eats on her own. I know that this disease will need
daily attention, I know. and here I thought Lymphoma was a long and tough road
to hoe, but it seems like HCM might have even be more taxing.



Bob
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bob

I am sorry to hear of Kalysta, she is very brave. It's good news the lasix
worked so well and quickly but I would also be wary of reducing it until it
is  certain she is out of heart failure. The potassium and kidney levels
need to  monitored as well, either could cause her appetite to have problems
and  potassium depletion can cause nervous disorders like walking wobbly. It
is easy  to get a potassium supplement, mine came as beef flavour liquid.

CoQ 10 helps all my cat with heart problems at 30mg per day. Most of the
forum cats here are on that so it is something to consider from the health
store  or as Cardiostrength which is made for cats with heart problems. You
can also  consider nattokinase (must have vitamin K removed) to prevent blood
clots if she  is at risk of those.

Count breaths, see what is normal when she is at rest, but not dreaming. It
  should be around 20. Up to 30 is considered normal, over 30 caution and
over 40  an emergency. But the most important is to see what she is like
normally so you  can see changes quickly.

Enjoy her! She can still play if she feels like it and enjoy her toys and
some exercise. She is totally unaware she is sick. I used to be constantly
checking mine and worrying, but that worried them. So enjoy every day with
her.

Lyn:)

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

My cat had been to the vet twice in past 3 weeks for weight loss and lethargy.

First visit.  Bloodwork showed high white blood count and low calcium.  Xray
showed one lung was all cloudy that could signify anything from infection to
cancer and gallstones.  Vet said ultrasound may be needed, but suggested we try
bloodwork to check infdction and treat with antibiotic.  Revisit scheduled two
weeks.  Vet asked if any open moutb breathing.  I had seen none.  He had lost a
lot of weight before i took him.  About 2 lbs, but I tried feeding him mord for
a few weeks before I took him in.

I gave meds and tried to get my baby more food.  He was almost 10. Vet says
senior, but it still seems young.  He had goid days and bad.  Not overly active.
But he always was eating some on his own.

Second visit vet heard murmur and said that is not normal, could be
cardiomyopathy.  But, slight drop in white blood cell count led vet to try
another antibiotic with recheck needed and if no improvement then ultrasound.  I
closely watched him.  No open breathing still.  Over the week he seemed to have
more energy.  Yesterday eating almost 2 cans of cat food along with somd dry
foid.  I was so happy. I thought he was recovering.

This morning we were cuddling on bed. He was even rolling around purring getting
his belly rub.  He took a short nap, looked around and went downstairs. A few
minutes later i followed him to give him his antibiotic. I find him drooling,
hunched over, and gagging.  I run to get dressed.  Grab him and head to er.  It
took only minutes to get ready and hospital is five minutes away.  He looks
horrible.  His breaths get shorter apart.  I arrive, pick him up and he is
almost lifeless.  I run into the vet and hand him over.  The tech said as soon
as he put him on the table he passes.

I am so sad.  He is gone now and all i have is questions.  Since the vet said
possible cardiomyopathy.  I start looking it up today.  If that could have been
the issue, why the antibiotics?  If that was the issue, what do I need to do to
prevent his sister getting sick like him?  I am so sad and angry.  I think I
should switch vets, but how to find a good one?  I put another cat down at 10
last year with vaccine associated fibrosarcoma.  As the vet injected in back
instead of legs, I had no option.  I thought this is just in my head.  But even
if he didnt have open breathing, wasnt weight loss, foggy chest xray and murmur
enough to do something else or am i just overthinking it?  The er did not
mention er, but said heart failure can cause what happened to my baby.  I am so
upset and confused.

Oh my goodness I am so very sorry to hear this heart wrenching story.  You did
everything you could, and your feelings are completely normal. 

HCM is a terrible disease... so many cats die without ever being diagnosed.  It
is normal for your vet to think infection, or asthma, or a number of other
causes for the symptoms over HCM.  Unfortunately without an ultrasound by a
cardiologist it is near impossible to know.  Hearing the heart murmur did open
up the possibility but since kitty seemed better, the vet went with his original
diagnosis. 

I do understand the frustration... my cat was in the middle of heart failure
struggling to breathe and our vet was ready to send her home to be monitored.
Instead I rushed her to the ER.  This is why I am a big advocate of seeing a
cardiologist when it comes to heart issues.  Vets just do not have the same
knowledge.

You mention "sister" kitty... are they from the same litter?  If that is the
case there is possibility of heart disease so I would schedule an ultrasound
with a cardiologist just to rule
  it out.  If it is HCM, don't panic....kitty can do very well on the proper
medications and routine ultrasounds/blood work to manage the disease.  

It is good you found this group just in case.  It really sounds like time was
not on your side with the kitty you lost (so sorry I don't know his name). I
understand the heartache you must feel right now.  Hold the sweet memories close
and hold "sister" tighter today.

<<hugs>>
Laurie


--- On Mon, 12/10/12, techigirl78@... <techigirl78@...> wrote:

From: techigirl78@... <techigirl78@...>
Subject: [FH] I lost my cat this morning
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 10, 2012, 1:56 AM
















 









       My cat had been to the vet twice in past 3 weeks for weight loss and
lethargy.



First visit.  Bloodwork showed high white blood count and low calcium.  Xray
showed one lung was all cloudy that could signify anything from infection to
cancer and gallstones.  Vet said ultrasound may be needed, but suggested we try
bloodwork to check infdction and treat with antibiotic.  Revisit scheduled two
weeks.  Vet asked if any open moutb breathing.  I had seen none.  He had lost a
lot of weight before i took him.  About 2 lbs, but I tried feeding him mord for
a few weeks before I took him in.



I gave meds and tried to get my baby more food.  He was almost 10. Vet says
senior, but it still seems young.  He had goid days and bad.  Not overly active.
But he always was eating some on his own.



Second visit vet heard murmur and said that is not normal, could be
cardiomyopathy.  But, slight drop in white blood cell count led vet to try
another antibiotic with recheck needed and if no improvement then ultrasound.  I
closely watched him.  No open breathing still.  Over the week he seemed to have
more energy.  Yesterday eating almost 2 cans of cat food along with somd dry
foid.  I was so happy. I thought he was recovering.



This morning we were cuddling on bed. He was even rolling around purring getting
his belly rub.  He took a short nap, looked around and went downstairs. A few
minutes later i followed him to give him his antibiotic. I find him drooling,
hunched over, and gagging.  I run to get dressed.  Grab him and head to er.  It
took only minutes to get ready and hospital is five minutes away.  He looks
horrible.  His breaths get shorter apart.  I arrive, pick him up and he is
almost lifeless.  I run into the vet and hand him over.  The tech said as soon
as he put him on the table he passes.



I am so sad.  He is gone now and all i have is questions.  Since the vet said
possible cardiomyopathy.  I start looking it up today.  If that could have been
the issue, why the antibiotics?  If that was the issue, what do I need to do to
prevent his sister getting sick like him?  I am so sad and angry.  I think I
should switch vets, but how to find a good one?  I put another cat down at 10
last year with vaccine associated fibrosarcoma.  As the vet injected in back
instead of legs, I had no option.  I thought this is just in my head.  But even
if he didnt have open breathing, wasnt weight loss, foggy chest xray and murmur
enough to do something else or am i just overthinking it?  The er did not
mention er, but said heart failure can cause what happened to my baby.  I am so
upset and confused.
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Bob,

I have included the group so they will have all the information to offer their
help as well.  I don't have personal experience with appetite stimulants so
maybe others do.

Finding a cardiologist is really important as they have the best knowledge when
it comes to diagnosing and treating HCM. Is there an area Vet Emergency Hospital
that may have a cardiology department?  That is how I found Boo's cardiologist
who saved her life.  Also get full blood work done so you can see the potassium
and kidney levels.  This may explain what is causing the inappetance and wobbly
walking and gives you a benchmark for future blood work.

You mentioned a lot of drinking/urinating which you will see from the lasix...
but again blood work will show if there is a
  kidney issue at all.  Yes, long term use of lasix can cause issues but it is
important to keep the fluid away right now.  I can't stress enough my personal
feeling that lasix is important here.

She is indeed a miracle and I have a feeling with your diligence she will fight
this too.  So keep doing what you're doing but try to find a cardiologist and
continue with the lasix for now (did I say that already?? ;-))

Keep us posted.
Laurie


--- On Sun, 12/9/12, Bob S <rsifuent@...> wrote:

From: Bob S <rsifuent@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] New Member - Kalysta, and Bob
To: "Laurie Stead" <kittykatwhiskas@...>
Date: Sunday, December 9, 2012, 6:41 PM

Thanks for the reply, Laurie.

In the past, neither cyproheptadine or mirtazapine worked for her.

Not sure about if a bonafide cardiologist is available to me. I just moved to
Bartlesville, OK from KCMO. The local family vet here referred me to a
board-certified oncologist in Tulsa, based on
  Kalysta's history.

She did recommend that Lasix wasn't necessarily good for cats on a long-term
basis, and Dr. Jory, an IM with lots of oncology experience, in the lymphoma
group also said to be careful with Lasix... so I was told to wean her off of it.
Also, Kalysta really had an immeasurable amount of fluid. What alarmed me about
any fluid in the chest is the possibility of mediastinal lymphoma, a very
aggressive form of lymphoma... although, I had no knowledge of fluid associated
with any other disease... again my ignorance of and surprise that Kalysta could
have had heart disease.

I haven't had more blood work done, but Kalysta does have another IM/onc visit
at the end of the month for another full body U/S.

If she doesn't perk up in the next couple of days, I might have to take her back
to the local vet for more blood work done. I don't know how long it takes for
the heart meds to kick in, so I am doing my due diligence on the
  homefront for her, making sure she is hydrated and fed. With lymphoma, I would
attribute her losing weight despite being fed enough to malabsorption since
cancer feeds on nutrition, at least small cell does.

I've been here before, but still it does take its toll on you. She's sleeping
too much. I wake her to feed her. She gets mad. Syringe-feeding can get messy.
You try to clean her. She gets mad. She drinks, a lot, thank God. But she
becomes too weak to get to the litter box, so you put her in the box and she
pees. Yet, other times she pees in bed. Vicious cycle. It takes a lot of
patience and tolerance. We do the best we can, don't we? Thankfully, every now
and then we are blessed with a little miracle, our little miracle.

Bob



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Oh my God -

I am so sorry to wake up and read this, my heart breaks for you. 

I am not sure why this happened, I can only say that something similar
happened to my Tino.  The most important thing I think, is that you let
yourself off the hook.

My vet is only mins away too (I live in NYC)
Tino was snuggling on the bed with me, and then bolted out, writhing in pain and
crying - rushed him to the ER. where he passed away from saddle
thrombosis.  He had thrown a blood clot.  The vet told me that they
really don't recover from this.  I was devastated too.
It was heart problem that was recently diagnosed that Tino passed away from.

But the bottom line is this,
no matter what really made her take such a turn for the worse so
quickly...minutes before, she was fine, happy and had a truly loving and gifted
life.  You did everything that you possibly could and you did it quickly. 


It is so easy to try to second guess yourself, but you did everything
possible.  I am so sorry to hear of your loss, I hate the fact that
we've all been there (I miss Tino daily) but you have to remind yourself that
there really was nothing you did to cause this and that you did
all that you could just the second you knew she was suffering. 

I am so, so sorry for your loss. 

Please let yourself off the hook, you gave her a wonderful, wonderful life.
You will be in my thoughts and prayers.Wendy


________________________________
  From: "techigirl78@..." <techigirl78@...>
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:56 AM
Subject: [FH] I lost my cat this morning


 
My cat had been to the vet twice in past 3 weeks for weight loss and lethargy.

First visit.  Bloodwork showed high white blood count and low calcium.  Xray
showed one lung was all cloudy that could signify anything from infection to
cancer and gallstones.  Vet said ultrasound may be needed, but suggested we try
bloodwork to check infdction and treat with antibiotic.  Revisit scheduled two
weeks.  Vet asked if any open moutb breathing.  I had seen none.  He had lost a
lot of weight before i took him.  About 2 lbs, but I tried feeding him mord for
a few weeks before I took him in.

I gave meds and tried to get my baby more food.  He was almost 10. Vet says
senior, but it still seems young.  He had goid days and bad.  Not overly active.
But he always was eating some on his own.

Second visit vet heard murmur and said that is not normal, could be
cardiomyopathy.  But, slight drop in white blood cell count led vet to try
another antibiotic with recheck needed and if no improvement then ultrasound.  I
closely watched him.  No open breathing still.  Over the week he seemed to have
more energy.  Yesterday eating almost 2 cans of cat food along with somd dry
foid.  I was so happy. I thought he was recovering.

This morning we were cuddling on bed. He was even rolling around purring getting
his belly rub.  He took a short nap, looked around and went downstairs. A few
minutes later i followed him to give him his antibiotic. I find him drooling,
hunched over, and gagging.  I run to get dressed.  Grab him and head to er.  It
took only minutes to get ready and hospital is five minutes away.  He looks
horrible.  His breaths get shorter apart.  I arrive, pick him up and he is
almost lifeless.  I run into the vet and hand him over.  The tech said as soon
as he put him on the table he passes.

I am so sad.  He is gone now and all i have is questions.  Since the vet said
possible cardiomyopathy.  I start looking it up today.  If that could have been
the issue, why the antibiotics?  If that was the issue, what do I need to do to
prevent his sister getting sick like him?  I am so sad and angry.  I think I
should switch vets, but how to find a good one?  I put another cat down at 10
last year with vaccine associated fibrosarcoma.  As the vet injected in back
instead of legs, I had no option.  I thought this is just in my head.  But even
if he didnt have open breathing, wasnt weight loss, foggy chest xray and murmur
enough to do something else or am i just overthinking it?  The er did not
mention er, but said heart failure can cause what happened to my baby.  I am so
upset and confused.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I want the group to know that I have made the decision to start
preparing home cooked meals for both Martha and Morelli. I will be going
  through Balance IT with our vet's blessing. Of course he will be
monitoring Martha, and Morelli's vet will monitor him. I believe this
program has the best structure and nutrients of any that I checked out
during my research.

Morelli did great yesterday, no throwing up
at all. But this morning he threw up his whole breakfast. I really feel
this kind of feeding could very well make a difference. Oh I hope
so!!!!! If not, well, I can say I tried.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blessings,Lynda Doty, Ph.D.Martha, Morelli and Angel C.B.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I suspect your kitty threw blood clot(s) to the brain. What you describe is
exactly what happened to my little Turkishvan, Viva. I feel your pain. In
my case she didn't show any signs. Ate breakfast on morning and an hour
tater was in distress.  Stupid vet failed to try a blood thinner.  Yes all
the kits litter mates are at risk if it was a heart issue.
Bill


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

This is primarily for vets, but I thought I'd share the news about this app
& case that turns your iphone into a portable ECG:

http://worldvets.donorshops.com/product/B033563/alivecor0153iphoneecgheartmo
nitor.php

Sue & Boo

Hi -- I am so sorry to hear about your little kitty.  What you describe is
sudden heart failure caused by HCM.  This is what happened to one of my kitties
back in 1995.  She was lethargic and wouldn't eat for a couple days before.  But
she did not have a murmur, and I have to admin that in 1995 I had never even
heard of HCM.  We were going to take her into the vet the next morning because
she just looked so weak and had a bit of open-mouth breathing.  But at 4 AM I
was awoken by a loud scream, and by the time I got into the living room she was
dead in a puddle of fluid on the floor.  I tried holding her upside down to
drain fluid, and I also tried breathing for her, but it was too late, she was
already gone.  We did do a necropsy at the University Of Guelph, an they said
sudden heart failure caused by HCM.  They said that when people wake up in the
morning and find their kitties dead on the floor, this is usually what it is. 
Fortunately it's quick. I read on another list of a kitty who happily ran up the
cat tree while they were playing, and then fell off dead.

If your other cat is related, you need to get an echocardiogram with a
cardiologist immediately.  This is the only way to know if there is heart
disease. Xrays may show fluid, but it's hard to tell, and they cannot diagnose
heart disease.  And if she also has HCM, you can start on the proper meds right
away to increase her chances of a full life.

When you feel up to it, please put up a memorial to your dear kitty on our
memorial site http://www.AngelKitties.com -- we'd love to see his photo and hear
how you met, etc.  All kitties are welcome, no matter how long they've been in
heaven.

take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: techigirl78@...
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:56 AM
   Subject: [FH] I lost my cat this morning



   My cat had been to the vet twice in past 3 weeks for weight loss and lethargy.

   First visit. Bloodwork showed high white blood count and low calcium. Xray
showed one lung was all cloudy that could signify anything from infection to
cancer and gallstones. Vet said ultrasound may be needed, but suggested we try
bloodwork to check infdction and treat with antibiotic. Revisit scheduled two
weeks. Vet asked if any open moutb breathing. I had seen none. He had lost a lot
of weight before i took him. About 2 lbs, but I tried feeding him mord for a few
weeks before I took him in.

   I gave meds and tried to get my baby more food. He was almost 10. Vet says
senior, but it still seems young. He had goid days and bad. Not overly active.
But he always was eating some on his own.

   Second visit vet heard murmur and said that is not normal, could be
cardiomyopathy. But, slight drop in white blood cell count led vet to try
another antibiotic with recheck needed and if no improvement then ultrasound. I
closely watched him. No open breathing still. Over the week he seemed to have
more energy. Yesterday eating almost 2 cans of cat food along with somd dry
foid. I was so happy. I thought he was recovering.

   This morning we were cuddling on bed. He was even rolling around purring
getting his belly rub. He took a short nap, looked around and went downstairs. A
few minutes later i followed him to give him his antibiotic. I find him
drooling, hunched over, and gagging. I run to get dressed. Grab him and head to
er. It took only minutes to get ready and hospital is five minutes away. He
looks horrible. His breaths get shorter apart. I arrive, pick him up and he is
almost lifeless. I run into the vet and hand him over. The tech said as soon as
he put him on the table he passes.

   I am so sad. He is gone now and all i have is questions. Since the vet said
possible cardiomyopathy. I start looking it up today. If that could have been
the issue, why the antibiotics? If that was the issue, what do I need to do to
prevent his sister getting sick like him? I am so sad and angry. I think I
should switch vets, but how to find a good one? I put another cat down at 10
last year with vaccine associated fibrosarcoma. As the vet injected in back
instead of legs, I had no option. I thought this is just in my head. But even if
he didnt have open breathing, wasnt weight loss, foggy chest xray and murmur
enough to do something else or am i just overthinking it? The er did not mention
er, but said heart failure can cause what happened to my baby. I am so upset and
confused.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Everyone,
I'm in need of advise. I have a call into my vet and my kitten, Illyana's
specialist but want as much advise as I can get.
Illyana just turned one year old. I had put off having her spayed as I didn't
want to stress her body out and take any unnecessary chances with surgery. We
got her dx at 6 mos old so hadn't really thought of spaying at that age.
Well she went into heat last night. Scared me to death with her crying and
rubbing her back legs on the floor. We went off to the emergency vet to make
sure she was ok and it's just her heat cycle.
Her last visit to the specialist was very good, they have stopped her lasix and
she has a follow-up in 6 months.They have also "removed" the hypertrophic (sp)
part of the dx.
Does anyone have any experience with this?
Thank you!
Vickie

You have to get her spayed, as the heat cycles create stress on the heart.  my
Tigger was dx at 6 months of age, but I was able to get him successfully
neutered without any problems.  As long as your vet knows her heart's exact
status, and uses all the propler precautions, the surgery can be done safely.
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: vllevan
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:35 PM
   Subject: [FH] Kitty in heat



   Hi Everyone,
   I'm in need of advise. I have a call into my vet and my kitten, Illyana's
specialist but want as much advise as I can get.
   Illyana just turned one year old. I had put off having her spayed as I didn't
want to stress her body out and take any unnecessary chances with surgery. We
got her dx at 6 mos old so hadn't really thought of spaying at that age.
   Well she went into heat last night. Scared me to death with her crying and
rubbing her back legs on the floor. We went off to the emergency vet to make
sure she was ok and it's just her heat cycle.
   Her last visit to the specialist was very good, they have stopped her lasix
and she has a follow-up in 6 months.They have also "removed" the hypertrophic
(sp) part of the dx.
   Does anyone have any experience with this?
   Thank you!
   Vickie





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi ---- your kitty most probably didn't have a clot, so the blood thinners
wouldn't have made any difference.  Total heart failure would have happened
anyway.  The only thing that can help prevent that is to be diagnosed really
early, and put on all the proper meds.  But even that doesn't always help --
some kitties' heart disease progresses SO fast that there is absolutely
nothing that can be done.  The fluid builds up so fast sometimes.  That's
sadly what happened with both of our kitties.
----- Original Message -----
From: <techigirl78@...>
To: "Westgold" <westgold@...>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [FH] I lost my cat this morning


Thank you for sharing your story.  I can take comfort in knowing I was able
to be with him in his last moments.  Even though I was driving, I had one
hand on him and he knew I was there.

I'm still frustrated with my vet, I think part of it is normal anger/guilt
over death.  I left message with the animal hospital who has all the
specialists in town (where I was sent when my tabby had cancer too).
However, I think I will need to go through my normal vet to get a referral.
Part of me wishes in addition to 2nd antibiotic, I was also given blood
thinner since he heart murur.  I keep thinking maybe that would have kept
him with me longer (though not sure how much).  The other part thinks maybe
no vet would do that until ultrasound or echocardiogram done by
cardiologist.  My vet said he would send me if second course didn't work to
a specialist.  Plus, my cat while losing weight was still responsive and
eating a little.  Just confused.  I know everyone here likely understands.

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
>
> Hi -- I am so sorry to hear about your little kitty.  What you describe is
> sudden heart failure caused by HCM.  This is what happened to one of my
> kitties back in 1995.  She was lethargic and wouldn't eat for a couple
> days before.  But she did not have a murmur, and I have to admin that in
> 1995 I had never even heard of HCM.  We were going to take her into the
> vet the next morning because she just looked so weak and had a bit of
> open-mouth breathing.  But at 4 AM I was awoken by a loud scream, and by
> the time I got into the living room she was dead in a puddle of fluid on
> the floor.  I tried holding her upside down to drain fluid, and I also
> tried breathing for her, but it was too late, she was already gone.  We
> did do a necropsy at the University Of Guelph, an they said sudden heart
> failure caused by HCM.  They said that when people wake up in the morning
> and find their kitties dead on the floor, this is usually what it is.
> Fortunately it's quick. I read on another list of a kitty who happily ran
> up the cat tree while they were playing, and then fell off dead.
>
> If your other cat is related, you need to get an echocardiogram with a
> cardiologist immediately.  This is the only way to know if there is heart
> disease. Xrays may show fluid, but it's hard to tell, and they cannot
> diagnose heart disease.  And if she also has HCM, you can start on the
> proper meds right away to increase her chances of a full life.
>
> When you feel up to it, please put up a memorial to your dear kitty on our
> memorial site http://www.AngelKitties.com -- we'd love to see his photo
> and hear how you met, etc.  All kitties are welcome, no matter how long
> they've been in heaven.
>
> take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
>

Hi Vickie

Any surgery with a heart cat has a risk. All of my heart cats were spayed
successfully though as going through heat is also very stressful and a risk.
  It's a balance of risks, also the risk of her getting pregnant, cats do
escape  and boys can climb fences. It's a quick, easy operation to spay and
reduces the  risk of mammary cancer and pyometra. Pyometra is a womb infection
which is  caused by repeated heat cycles without pregnancy  and is from
bacteria  getting into the womb. A pyometra can be life threatening, especially
if the  womb is closed and the bacteria can't drain.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes, please take her to a cardiologist asap, and then you will know.  If she
has HCM, he will give you the proper meds.  With the right meds, most can
live a normal lifespan.  My Tigger was dx at age 6 months, and he celebrated
his happy 8th birthday in Oct. If she doesn't have it, then you won't have
to worry!  You have to also tell their breeder --- I sure hope they have
retired the parents.  But they need to get all their breeding cats echoed,
otherwise they just keep making more kittens with heartbreaking HCM.   I'm
so glad you found our list, we will help you -- give us the sister's results
when you get them.

take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
----- Original Message -----
From: <techigirl78@...>
To: "Westgold" <westgold@...>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: I lost my cat this morning


That is what I'm telling my stepdaughter and what I believe.  Even if we
found out exactly what it was and got him on treatments, he probably had a
lot of damage.  He had been slowly going down a little over the last year.
I thought maybe age since he stilled ate, played, ran around, but not at the
level of a normal bengal (still above my tuxedo though).  Then, the last
month he was acting sick and losing weight.  When he passed, he had gained
1/2 lb in less then week.  So, I wasn't imagining it, he was eating a lot
more.  But, I think the damage was there.  The important thing now is to
make sure his sister gets it detected early if she has the same thing and
for me to learn more going forward.

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@...> wrote:
>
> hi ---- your kitty most probably didn't have a clot, so the blood thinners
> wouldn't have made any difference.  Total heart failure would have
> happened
> anyway.  The only thing that can help prevent that is to be diagnosed
> really
> early, and put on all the proper meds.  But even that doesn't always
> help --
> some kitties' heart disease progresses SO fast that there is absolutely
> nothing that can be done.  The fluid builds up so fast sometimes.  That's
> sadly what happened with both of our kitties.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <techigirl78@...>
> To: "Westgold" <westgold@...>
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [FH] I lost my cat this morning
>
>
> Thank you for sharing your story.  I can take comfort in knowing I was
> able
> to be with him in his last moments.  Even though I was driving, I had one
> hand on him and he knew I was there.
>
> I'm still frustrated with my vet, I think part of it is normal anger/guilt
> over death.  I left message with the animal hospital who has all the
> specialists in town (where I was sent when my tabby had cancer too).
> However, I think I will need to go through my normal vet to get a
> referral.
> Part of me wishes in addition to 2nd antibiotic, I was also given blood
> thinner since he heart murur.  I keep thinking maybe that would have kept
> him with me longer (though not sure how much).  The other part thinks
> maybe
> no vet would do that until ultrasound or echocardiogram done by
> cardiologist.  My vet said he would send me if second course didn't work
> to
> a specialist.  Plus, my cat while losing weight was still responsive and
> eating a little.  Just confused.  I know everyone here likely understands.
>
> --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Westgold" <westgold@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi -- I am so sorry to hear about your little kitty.  What you describe
> > is
> > sudden heart failure caused by HCM.  This is what happened to one of my
> > kitties back in 1995.  She was lethargic and wouldn't eat for a couple
> > days before.  But she did not have a murmur, and I have to admin that in
> > 1995 I had never even heard of HCM.  We were going to take her into the
> > vet the next morning because she just looked so weak and had a bit of
> > open-mouth breathing.  But at 4 AM I was awoken by a loud scream, and by
> > the time I got into the living room she was dead in a puddle of fluid on
> > the floor.  I tried holding her upside down to drain fluid, and I also
> > tried breathing for her, but it was too late, she was already gone.  We
> > did do a necropsy at the University Of Guelph, an they said sudden heart
> > failure caused by HCM.  They said that when people wake up in the
> > morning
> > and find their kitties dead on the floor, this is usually what it is.
> > Fortunately it's quick. I read on another list of a kitty who happily
> > ran
> > up the cat tree while they were playing, and then fell off dead.
> >
> > If your other cat is related, you need to get an echocardiogram with a
> > cardiologist immediately.  This is the only way to know if there is
> > heart
> > disease. Xrays may show fluid, but it's hard to tell, and they cannot
> > diagnose heart disease.  And if she also has HCM, you can start on the
> > proper meds right away to increase her chances of a full life.
> >
> > When you feel up to it, please put up a memorial to your dear kitty on
> > our
> > memorial site http://www.AngelKitties.com -- we'd love to see his photo
> > and hear how you met, etc.  All kitties are welcome, no matter how long
> > they've been in heaven.
> >
> > take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
> >
>

Oh!
      I am so deeply sorry to hear of your loss.
      Can you have a necropsy (kitty autopsy) done?  It will give you closure and
will answer your question regarding changing vets.
      Were you referred to a specialist at any point?  Was such a specialty
workup possible for you financially?
      Usually with heart disease both lungs are cloudy not just one.
      When a cat loses a LOT of weight and barely eats then suddenly eats a large
amount, he can die due to a condition called "refeeding syndrome" which is when
a catastrophic electrolyte imbalance occurs due to the sudden intake of food.  I
am wondering if this is a possibility here.
      I can tell how much you loved your boy.  I am quite sure he felt it.  And,
in the end, having been truly loved in life is much more important than how long
we lived.
Sending hugs.
Jenny

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "techigirl78@..." <techigirl78@...> wrote:
>
> My cat had been to the vet twice in past 3 weeks for weight loss and lethargy.
>
> First visit.  Bloodwork showed high white blood count and low calcium.  Xray
showed one lung was all cloudy that could signify anything from infection to
cancer and gallstones.  Vet said ultrasound may be needed, but suggested we try
bloodwork to check infdction and treat with antibiotic.  Revisit scheduled two
weeks.  Vet asked if any open moutb breathing.  I had seen none.  He had lost a
lot of weight before i took him.  About 2 lbs, but I tried feeding him mord for
a few weeks before I took him in.
>
> I gave meds and tried to get my baby more food.  He was almost 10. Vet says
senior, but it still seems young.  He had goid days and bad.  Not overly active.
But he always was eating some on his own.
>
> Second visit vet heard murmur and said that is not normal, could be
cardiomyopathy.  But, slight drop in white blood cell count led vet to try
another antibiotic with recheck needed and if no improvement then ultrasound.  I
closely watched him.  No open breathing still.  Over the week he seemed to have
more energy.  Yesterday eating almost 2 cans of cat food along with somd dry
foid.  I was so happy. I thought he was recovering.
>
> This morning we were cuddling on bed. He was even rolling around purring
getting his belly rub.  He took a short nap, looked around and went downstairs.
A few minutes later i followed him to give him his antibiotic. I find him
drooling, hunched over, and gagging.  I run to get dressed.  Grab him and head
to er.  It took only minutes to get ready and hospital is five minutes away.  He
looks horrible.  His breaths get shorter apart.  I arrive, pick him up and he is
almost lifeless.  I run into the vet and hand him over.  The tech said as soon
as he put him on the table he passes.
>
> I am so sad.  He is gone now and all i have is questions.  Since the vet said
possible cardiomyopathy.  I start looking it up today.  If that could have been
the issue, why the antibiotics?  If that was the issue, what do I need to do to
prevent his sister getting sick like him?  I am so sad and angry.  I think I
should switch vets, but how to find a good one?  I put another cat down at 10
last year with vaccine associated fibrosarcoma.  As the vet injected in back
instead of legs, I had no option.  I thought this is just in my head.  But even
if he didnt have open breathing, wasnt weight loss, foggy chest xray and murmur
enough to do something else or am i just overthinking it?  The er did not
mention er, but said heart failure can cause what happened to my baby.  I am so
upset and confused.
>

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