Not necessarily...only 50% of cats with hypertension respond to enalapril, and
ACE inhibitors (like Enalapril) are not considered a primary treatment today for
hypertension in cats (it is primarily used in dogs).  About 12 years ago,
Enalapril was used more in cats. However, today, Enalapril can benefit cats with
renal disease, as can Benazepril.  You should also use it cautiously when using
other hypotensive drugs and diurectics.
Karen Plasket, DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: joanne marbut <jomarbut@...>
To: Karen Plasket <slammerfold@...>; jknsk2002 <jknsk2002@...>;
feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 26, 2012 9:24 pm
Subject: Re: [FH] Atenolol question.....



An HCM cat should use both atenolol and enalapril. Atenolol affects heart
muscle, slowing down the beating of the heart.  The bp is lowered; the heart
doesn't have to work as hard to pump; it's much better for the heart.  Enalapril
keeps blood veins opened if there was to be a heart attack; keeps veins from
being constricted and therefore lowers bp; helps heart performance in how it
affects blood veins.  So, both meds lower bp but in different ways.  Both are
necessary for a heart patient.






   From: Karen Plasket <slammerfold@...>
  To: jknsk2002@...; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
  Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2012 11:19 AM
  Subject: Re: [FH] Atenolol question.....








Hi Susan,
A lot of cardiologists (and some progressive regular vets) will put a cat on
Atenolol when they have mild HCM and a slight murmur...a lot of doctors have had
the murmurs disappear once the cat is on Atenolol.  My own HCM cat is on
Atenolol, with great results, and most times his doctor can't hear a murmur at
all (even with his congestive heart failure).  Atenolol lowers the heart rate,
so my cat's doctor judges by the heart rate that Atenolol is doing its job, plus
no clinical symptoms, and his echo remains stable.  Definitely do not take him
off Atenolol abruptly...I learned that the hard way when I missed several doses
4 years ago with my cat.  He ended up collapsing, and I was fortunate I didn't
lose him.
Is Oreo still on Enalapril? Even with the atenolol?
Karen Plasket, DVM

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan <jknsk2002@...>
To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Dec 25, 2012 11:19 pm
Subject: [FH] Atenolol question.....

oreo was put on Atenolol, 3 months ago due to a newely detected arrhythmia .  He
went in for a dental and the ecg showed an arrhythmia & cancelled the dental
because of that (plus elevated bp, he's on enalpril)until I had clearance from
his cardiologist.  He has had mild HCT for 15-16 years, unchanged. Current echo
was good, a low grade / mild HCT. (no prior arrhythmia until this year. He's had
a regular routine of echo's since birth.
My question is this, the cardiologist and his main doctor put him on atenolol,
we successfully completed the dental.  Now, how do I know if the atenolol is
doing it's job ? Is there a test ALONE that will show progress on the
medication, or is this just something he's supposed to be on with this issue ???
How would I ever know if the 1/4 of the pill twice daily is working ?
Thanks
Susan

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I ran to the grocery store and bought the only scent free natural soap they had.
Wish I had thought of this Monday as I was right next door to a health store
that has a whole isle of that stuff! Packed away all candles..... Hmm think I
missed a couple little ones in the bedroom. All the soap is in the back hall and
she won't be there in the winter.

Vet agreed with taking her off the pred and trying this before any further
testing. How long before you saw an improvement in Boo? I'd expect it to take at
least a cople of days if not longer.

Thanks,
Diane

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...> wrote:
>
> Same here... Boo was on OTC allergy meds for horrible sneezing... once all
candles, room fresheners and such were removed she no longer needs the allergy
meds.  It's worth trying as an experiment to see if it helps.
>
>
> --- On Wed, 12/26/12, Lynda Doty <ibdcat@...> wrote:
>
> From: Lynda Doty <ibdcat@...>
> Subject: Re: [FH] OT - Sinus issues
> To: "Diane" <dianed143@...>, "feline-heart@yahoogroups.com"
<feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, December 26, 2012, 9:11 AM
>
>
>       Diane, I can't offer a lot of help but I can tell you that getting rid
of ALL scented candles, including vanilla etc---helped my Martha immensely. She
snorted and sneezed and carried on any time I had scent in the house--and I am a
huge Yankee Candle lover.
>
>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> Blessings,
>
> Lynda Doty, Ph.D.
>
> Martha, Morelli and Angel C.B.
>
>
>
> Also I've discovered that some scents (candles, soaps) can cause issues in
cats. I never knew this and will be re-washing hers and our bedding with scent
free stuff. I've been trying to make more natural cleaning and body products but
I still have been using some scents and I wonder if this can be causing some of
her issues. We both hate things that smell too purfume-y so those are never used
anyway, but I wonder if even the orange, vanillas or almond scents are bothering
her. I also tend to burn a fair amount of candles in the winter.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any input!
>
> Diane
>

Yep, Ash's cardiologist has had him on a whole chewable baby aspirin (81 mg)
every three days for over a year now.  He's been doing fine with it. Even his
regular vet said that was the normal dosing.  His cardiologist also said NOT to
use the coated kind.

Good luck!
Shonna & Ash
Starsky, Ichi, Gizzy, & Toothy
Angels Obi, Ziggy, Coal, & Squeaks

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Karen Plasket <slammerfold@...> wrote:
>
>
> Actually, in the states we use a whole baby aspirin (the chewable kind, 81mg)
every 3 days...not sure what dosages/mg's the baby aspirin is in the UK. 
Anything less is just a waste, and not doing much good to prevent clots.  Plavix
is far better, but my cat wouldn't tolerate Plavix.  The aspirin has been a good
alternative.
> Karen Plasket, DVM
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: elfinmyst <elfinmyst@...>
> To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wed, Dec 26, 2012 7:16 am
> Subject: [FH] Re: Aspirin
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Jean
>
> Half a baby aspirin would be toxic for a cat as far as I know. It's
> usually  a quarter baby aspirin every three days as the maximum dose. I  would
be
> concerned giving a half. But if he has suffered one clot, it is highly
> likely he will suffer another. There is an alternative called plavix which is
> given as a quarter once a day and that is what my HCM cats take. There are no
>  long term studies on taking plavix for a long time, but my girl has been
> on it  over three years with no ill effects and hasn't had another clot.
>
> I would consult with the cardiologist who did your echo about this. And ask
>  about plavix as an alternative or check the dose of the aspirin.
>
> Lyn
>
> _www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Hi Karen,
Thanks for this info.
I'd be very interested to see the article too - I'm wondering whether it's
something you could upload into the "files" section of the group to save you
having to send it out repeatedly?
Very best,
Sarah & Rascasse x

Hi

My cats have had no bad effects from plavix at all. The problem with plavix
  is it is such a bitter pill it's hard to give to cats, but mine gulp it
down in  chicken or paste no problem at all. Lots of cats here take plavix
with no ill  effects

Lyn:)

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks, Robin !  Thanks very much!

When you say, 'take him to the vet,' do you mean I should i) weigh him, or
ii) weigh him and  get the extra bloodwork, or iii) weigh him and get extra
bloodwork and let a vet I don't much trust examine him before moving on to
the echo later today.   I don't much trust the vet I'd have to see at the
regular practice and figure the exam would lead only to an exray, whick I
don't know I need.   If you feel an exam is necessary before the echo, I
could try to get in with a holistic vet I've just heard about.  Yes, I'm
trying to save money.   Have must awakened again to Lahri like-a-rock beside
me . . . hardly responsive . . . but I'm betting in no time he'll be asking
normally again except for not moving as fast (he's always been hyper).

CC'd the rest just in case someone else might want to weigh in.

Thank you so, so much.

mb and lahri.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Robin" <cowgirl64505@...>
To: "mary beth fitzpatrick" <marybethfitzpatrick@...>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 6:15 AM
Subject: Re: [CRF] HELP ! WHAT TO DO?


> Do not stop syringe feeding him until he is eating on his own regularly.
> Basically, try to get him to eat on his own then if he will not then
> syringe feed. Food is life and he simply will not eat without a decent
> amount every day.
>
> Second, I would go ahead and take him to vet. If he is starting to eat,
> drink pee and poop, he is not that bad that he can't go.
>
> Robin Widner
> ------------------------------------
>
> All messages sent to feline-crf-support@yahoogroups.com are Copyright 2012
> by the original author. Do not forward or excerpt to another group or
> nonmember without the author's permission.
>
> Any suggestions regarding medical matters are the opinion of the author.
> It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to verify all treatment descriptions and advice
> received with a qualified veterinarian.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 25, 2012, at 6:49 PM, "mary beth fitzpatrick"
<marybethfitzpatrick@...> wrote:

> Yet one more thing. Had noticed an occasional head twitch in Lahri (NON CRF)
this a.m. and read online that it can happen when a cat is dealing with a virus
as Lahri is: the herpes/clamydia flare up Spirit started. (They've had this a
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi I don't post often but read posts when I can. This post caught my eye. I have
a 12-yr old Bengal named Dante', have been managing his CRF since age 7. I am
also treating him for allergy-induced asthma. I have noticed Dante' with a head
twitch, much like what you've described. Doesn't seem to bother him but I don't
know what it is, either. It was weird and happens off and on. Sorry for my
previous "response" I hit send prematurely. I wonder if anyone else has noticed
this head twitch in their cats?
Julia

Sent from my iPhone


>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

May was put on atenolol in July after fluid in the lungs, she has minor hcm, and
a minor murmur.  It seemed to immediately slow her heart down.  Though more was
prescribed, I give her 1/6 of a 25mg tablet morning and night, so 1/3 tab per
day total.  If her rate goes up I will increase to 1/4 tab twice a day, for a
total of 12.5mg per day.

-Lee and May
==============================
6a Re: Atenolol question..... Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:37 pm (PST) . Posted by: "Rose
Pike" rosepike@... Rufus was placed on atenolol 25  mg 1/2 tablet daily
about 6 years ago for his HCM.  He also takes a compounded dose of verapamil
daily.  Since being on these 2 medications, he has improved significantly.  His
murmur was originally a 4/6 and subsequent echo showed it to be at  least 2/6,
but at his last echo about 2 months ago the cardiologist could barely detect a
murmur.  So, to answer your question as to whether the medication is helping, I
would say it DEFINITELY is helping.  There is no other explanation for the
improvement in Rufus' echo over the years other than the medication he is taking
and the love and care he gets from his humans.  Please do not take Oreo off the
atenolol.

Hello again.

Have heard from a number of you - hugely grateful for everything - and now
realize there are a number of possible explanations for Lahri's current
appearance and behavior.  He does seem quite stable, just has only half (or a
little less) than his normal energy.

I'm plotting our course and have come up with the following question:  After
weighing Lahri, would it make sense to do the echocardiogram and work from
there, minimizing Lahri’s stress and costs, only afterward completing the
bloodwork, doing chest ex-ray or whatever else seems relevant?    Is this
logical, wise thinking?  I will appreciate any information or thoughts you feel
could help me make the decisions I need to.

As someone once shared with me, one might do well to make such judgements based
on whether they can have any effect on treatment.   Makes sense to me.

Thank you all very much.

mb and Lahri


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes.  The echo is the single most important thing right now -- it alone can
tell you if there has been change in his heart's status.  If there's no
change in the heart, then you can look for other explanations --
----- Original Message -----
From: "mary beth fitzpatrick" <marybethfitzpatrick@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 27, 2012 11:55 AM
Subject: [FH] Lahri


Hello again.

Have heard from a number of you - hugely grateful for everything - and now
realize there are a number of possible explanations for Lahri's current
appearance and behavior.  He does seem quite stable, just has only half (or
a little less) than his normal energy.

I'm plotting our course and have come up with the following question:  After
weighing Lahri, would it make sense to do the echocardiogram and work from
there, minimizing Lahri’s stress and costs, only afterward completing the
bloodwork, doing chest ex-ray or whatever else seems relevant?    Is this
logical, wise thinking?  I will appreciate any information or thoughts you
feel could help me make the decisions I need to.

As someone once shared with me, one might do well to make such judgements
based on whether they can have any effect on treatment.   Makes sense to me.

Thank you all very much.

mb and Lahri

Hi, Everybody !   Did not see this happen, but did just discover Lahri has
gotten himself up on his favorite perch, a hammock about 5.5' up a tower.  He
clearly wants to stay there, but I'm asking myself if it might be better to take
him down so as not to put any unnecessary stress on his heart - IF INDEED the
heart is in jeopardy.

It's a HUGE MYSTERY to me how a kitty who seem so lethargic can get himself up
to that hammock - that takes a lot of muscle and energy.

Thanks for any response.

mb and Lahri

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Julia,

I think twitching can be caused by a number of things: certain drugs, potassium
deficiency, ageing and I'm sure heaps of other things. I've not heard of it
associated with viral infections before but I'm no vet.
My crf/hcm boy has a few head twitches (more pronounced when he's on certain
drugs, Bup/Vetergesic for example) - but the neurologist said she sees it quite
a lot in older Siamese anyway. (I wonder if Bengals are prone too?) She thinks
my boy is hyper-aesthetic and twitches a lot (not just his head, he gets large
muscle twitches too) when certain senses are over stimulated, so I think it's
different to what your baby has.
My previous Siamese girl had head twitches for many years in her mid/old age
which we never got to the bottom of despite various tests and second opinions.
They became more regular as she got older.

Has the twitching has just started suddenly or has gradually increased over
time? It's probably worth mentioning to your vet next time you go so you can at
least rule a few things out

Best

Sarah & Rascasse x

He's happy there, let him be.  Have you taken his resp rate while sleeping?

Laurie


--- On Thu, 12/27/12, mary beth fitzpatrick <marybethfitzpatrick@...>
wrote:

From: mary beth fitzpatrick <marybethfitzpatrick@...>
Subject: [FH] Lahri on high perch - leave him or take down???
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 2:59 PM
















 









       Hi, Everybody !   Did not see this happen, but did just discover Lahri has
gotten himself up on his favorite perch, a hammock about 5.5' up a tower.  He
clearly wants to stay there, but I'm asking myself if it might be better to take
him down so as not to put any unnecessary stress on his heart - IF INDEED the
heart is in jeopardy.



It's a HUGE MYSTERY to me how a kitty who seem so lethargic can get himself up
to that hammock - that takes a lot of muscle and energy.



Thanks for any response.



mb and Lahri

















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fuzz had his 6 month recheck yesterday. Most of the #s are improved, except for
the 1st 3, which are RVd, PWd & PWs. The fractional shortening is 38.8, it was
40-42 in Sept & 59 when diagnosed in June. The vet said that the fractional
shortening is a big deal and that he's doing very well and is stable. I won't
post the #s, as I didn't get any responses last time, but does anyone know if
the FS is really a big ticket #? I don't really understand this echo stuff.
 
Thanks,
 
Dana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Not sure about the FS other than it's a measure of ventricular function --
but that's great that Fuzz is stable!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Jean,
 
HCM.
 
Dana

--- On Thu, 12/27/12, Jean Fisher <jeanhfisher@...> wrote:


From: Jean Fisher <jeanhfisher@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] Fuzz Echo Recheck
To: "Dana McCormick" <danamcmk@...>
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 3:37 PM






Dana, what does Fuzz have?  I am new here on this forum.


Jean

--- On Thu, 12/27/12, Dana McCormick <danamcmk@...> wrote:


From: Dana McCormick <danamcmk@...>
Subject: [FH] Fuzz Echo Recheck
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 3:30 PM



 



Fuzz had his 6 month recheck yesterday. Most of the #s are improved, except for
the 1st 3, which are RVd, PWd & PWs. The fractional shortening is 38.8, it was
40-42 in Sept & 59 when diagnosed in June. The vet said that the fractional
shortening is a big deal and that he's doing very well and is stable. I won't
post the #s, as I didn't get any responses last time, but does anyone know if
the FS is really a big ticket #? I don't really understand this echo stuff.
 
Thanks,
 
Dana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello !

Just to let you know "something" happens that brings Lahri back to himself - not
as strong and bouncy as usual, but definitely OK in appearance.  Just don't
understand what's going on.  As some of you know, he got himself up 5.5 feet
into his favorite perch some hours ago and, though not his usual strong,
demanding self, he's shown his personality and 'having a life' since then,
including working hard to tell me he's not interested in the syringe at the
moment.  BUT . . . when he's been sleeping or into whatever mode that is, it
says to me he's not long for this world.  (From several of you, though, I
understand that lethargy can present itself for all sorts of reason.)  Hoping
the echo, time, and whatever further tests necessary will shed some light - but
most of all, help him get back to where he was just so very recently.

We're going for the echocardiogram at 5, and I'm told there'll be a vet there in
the case of some emergency need.  Decided not to stress him out by an earlier
trip to the regular vet practice, so no weighing or ex-ray yet.  The echo
results will take from 24-48 hours.  Ugh . . BUT, if he keeps acting as he is I
(breathing and heart rate fine and walking around) I'm going to practice letting
him be and keeping my worry-mind in check.

Thank you all for listening and weighing in.  It has made the decision-making
much easier.  Still open for any other responses, too.

mb and Lahri

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well, he's still looking pretty good, just generally on the still side.  Just
got a different kind of heart rate: 136.  He's been averaging 160-176 lately,
and that low gets me to wondering.  Going to Google some, but thought maybe some
of you might have some thing to share.

Thanks.

mb and lahril

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Had taken the previous 136 several times.  He's been on his belly for that one. 
The 164 came in loud and clear just now as he's lying on his right side.  I'm
not concerned, but if anyone has anything to share, you're welcome to.

THANKS FOR EVERYTHING !   YOU GUYS HAVE LIFTED ME THROUGH THIS DAY.

mb and lahri

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello !

The echo has been done.

Got TERRIFIC NEWS he has not gained weight since Sunday - allowing me deep hope
there is no effusion.

He has continued to be come more lively this afternoon and evening.  His eyes
are brighter now.  He's preening the area they shaved for the echo, and his
normal voice is coming back.   As too many of you know, I realize all of this
could change in an instant, but for right now, I'm relishing every second of it.

The echo results will take 24-48 hours.

Finally, just want to tell you again how deeply grateful I am for all of you,
all of the comments, information-sharing, and that comforting sense that I can
always post to you.

Wishing you all well,
mb and lahri

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

About 3 weeks ago (which is about 2 months on Atenolol), I noticed Oreo sitting
kinda strange.  At first, it occured while we were trying to transition him back
to Pate' style food mixed with warm water instead of blending it up as we had
been doing the prior 3-4 months because of his painful teeth.  He's since then,
had them pulled.

Right after eating, he would do what I THOUGHT was the meatloaf position,
tucking his front paws under his chest, head down, and rump kinda in the air,
not his norm.  So, then, we started the SEB and went back to blending his food.
Reason we did this , is I watch him eat, and he swallows his food, kinda
bypassing his mouth, almost forgetting how to chew, but now that we went back to
blending, he was fine.  Until yesterday, when I saw him start this again.  But
NOW, he is just doing it randomly and only for a few minutes and when you pet
him or call his name, he pretty much rolls out of it. Only like once or twice
per day, if that, but it's not his norm.  I was wondering if there could be some
kind of strange "fluttering" in his chest, kinda like a panic attack, that he's
needing to do that ? There is NO vomiting, no nausea that I can see and he is
eating well. The next time he does it, I am going to take a picture and post it,
plus email it to my vet and see if anyone can shed some light on it.  He's had
all recent bloodwork, ecg's, echo's and 3 follow ups since the dental to rule
out mouth ulcers.  He's already on Ondansetron, Pepcid, SEB, enalpril &
atenolol, aspirin 81mgs 2x's weekly.
If it's any consideration, I don't see this as bothering him. He's completely
fiune otherwise and he's not "stuck" in that position for more than a few
minutes here and there.  Could it be that he just likes this NEW position ? lol,
but i don't

Any ideas ?

Hi Jean,
 
Fuzz is on Diltiazem, DMG, Cardio Strength, CoQ10 & Plavix.
 
What diagnostics have you had done for Harley? What did the cardiologist say?
 
Dana

--- On Thu, 12/27/12, Jean Fisher <jeanhfisher@...> wrote:


From: Jean Fisher <jeanhfisher@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] Fuzz Echo Recheck
To: "Dana McCormick" <danamcmk@...>
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 4:34 PM







Dana,
 
That's the same thing my Harley has, HCM.  What did you do to improve him?  
I am debating whether to give aspirin to prevent clots.  Did you give Fuzz
any?  So far the cardiologist has not suggested anything for Harley but to come
back in 6 months.
 
Jean


--- On Thu, 12/27/12, Dana McCormick <danamcmk@...> wrote:


From: Dana McCormick <danamcmk@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] Fuzz Echo Recheck
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 4:25 PM



 



Jean,
 
HCM.
 
Dana

--- On Thu, 12/27/12, Jean Fisher <jeanhfisher@...> wrote:

From: Jean Fisher <jeanhfisher@...>
Subject: Re: [FH] Fuzz Echo Recheck
To: "Dana McCormick" <danamcmk@...>
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 3:37 PM

Dana, what does Fuzz have?  I am new here on this forum.

Jean

--- On Thu, 12/27/12, Dana McCormick <danamcmk@...> wrote:

From: Dana McCormick <danamcmk@...>
Subject: [FH] Fuzz Echo Recheck
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, December 27, 2012, 3:30 PM

 

Fuzz had his 6 month recheck yesterday. Most of the #s are improved, except for
the 1st 3, which are RVd, PWd & PWs. The fractional shortening is 38.8, it was
40-42 in Sept & 59 when diagnosed in June. The vet said that the fractional
shortening is a big deal and that he's doing very well and is stable. I won't
post the #s, as I didn't get any responses last time, but does anyone know if
the FS is really a big ticket #? I don't really understand this echo stuff.
 
Thanks,
 
Dana

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I find this post FASCINATING!!     I have an 8 year old special needs (feline
asthma/HCM)  himalayan (cross between a siamese and persian) kitty.   She also
has some eye twitching / head tiliting occassionally, and I have NEVER been able
to determine (nor her vets) what causes it.

Yet you state that it could be prone to Siamese breed?  Or age?     Do you have
any articles and/or documentation on this you could share?

One vet thought it was more pronounced itching that presented itself as a result
of taking her off oral steriods and onto inhaled sterioids instead.

Any info you can provide is greately appreciated!!

Thanks,
Jordan and Sheba




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Since posting my reply yesterday and having someone contact me for further
information, which I don't have, I did at least find some notes I made at the
time when talking to my vet.
While it's not an article or link, it's worth posting here because it corrects
an error in my memory (which is rather disturbing and I'm putting down to
tiredness....)

The large muscle twitching and 'rippling' along Rascasse's back were supposedly
because he is hyperaethetic, as I mentioned, which means he is over sensitive to
touch, irritated by daily sub q's - and THIS is what the neurologist said she
saw a lot in Siamese.
It's very different to the head jerking which I was remembering as the Siamese
trait, so not relevant to this thread, and I apologise for mixing this up.
Anyway since stopping sub q's his constant back rippllng has stopped - by the
way we were not doing the sub q's wrong, or pumping him full of air, the vet
gave him a couple of sub qs and saw the exact same thing - so I feel the
hyperaestic diagnosis may be right. He's happy to have his back stroked, but
gets very twitchy/ripply along his back for a minute when he gets shots. Daily
jabs make him constantly ripply and jerky to the touch.

Here's the relevant bit:
my vet relayed the neuro's comment as "the twitching / head jerking is likely to
be due to 'normal' ageing changes - likely some degeneration of the brain/nerves
which is seen as animals age especially if their health is not 100%."

I had asked if the head twitching/jerking could be associated with high
phosphorous and calcium numbers, which he had at the time, and the neuro said
she thought it unlikely as she would expect to see seizures as a first sign if
these were high and not tremors/jerks/shakes.

Neuro suggested we could try Vivitonin (not licenses in cats in UK) as it
increases blood flow to heart and brain and is used routinely in dogs for brain
changes (and also in some cats she has seen). Since Vivitonin had also been
mentioned for Ras's heart (he had just been diagnosed with HCM too) we did try
Vivitonin for a short time. It did not appear to help his head twitching,
although I'm not sure we tried it long enough to give a fair report, as his HR
was very fast and we decided to switch to Atenolol.

His head jerks do seem fewer now. I feel that they may be more pronounced when
he is not so stable and feeling less well. But I also feel strong meds make him
this way too. Since both possible events are likely to co-incide it's hard to
pin it down more.
But given the fact the head jerking with my previous girl did increase as she
got older and sicker, I feel fairly happy with the explanation above from the
neuro.

Again apologies for my mistake before, hope this helps

Best

Sarah



Thu Dec 27, 2012 12:12 pm (PST) . Posted by:"Sarah Wadey" razzmans_mum


>Hi Julia,

I think twitching can be caused by a number of things: certain drugs, potassium
deficiency, ageing and I'm sure heaps of other things. I've not heard of it
associated with viral infections before but I'm no vet.
My crf/hcm boy has a few head twitches (more pronounced when he's on certain
drugs, Bup/Vetergesic for example) - but the neurologist said she sees it quite
a lot in older Siamese anyway. (I wonder if Bengals are prone too?) She thinks
my boy is hyper-aesthetic and twitches a lot (not just his head, he gets large
muscle twitches too) when certain senses are over stimulated, so I think it's
different to what your baby has.
My previous Siamese girl had head twitches for many years in her mid/old age
which we never got to the bottom of despite various tests and second opinions.
They became more regular as she got older.

Has the twitching has just started suddenly or has gradually increased over
time? It's probably worth mentioning to your vet next time you go so you can at
least rule a few things out

Best

Sarah & Rascasse x

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thanks for this, Sarah !    Really appreciate the follow-through.

Both the ageing as well as health aspects make lots of sense to me, and I'm
feeling pretty sure Lahri's twitching was a function of the herpes flare-up and
all the violent sneezing he was doing.  Fortunately, I suddenly noticed one of
the last mornings that he wasn't doing it any longer - and that did coincide
with a lessening of the sneezing.

The kind of information you are putting out here is very, very useful - I'm sure
to a lot of us.  Thanks for every morsel of it.

mb and lahri
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: Sarah Wadey
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 4:04 PM
   Subject: [FH] Re: [CRF] Lahri Head Twitch???



   Since posting my reply yesterday and having someone contact me for further
information, which I don't have, I did at least find some notes I made at the
time when talking to my vet.
   While it's not an article or link, it's worth posting here because it corrects
an error in my memory (which is rather disturbing and I'm putting down to
tiredness....)

   The large muscle twitching and 'rippling' along Rascasse's back were
supposedly because he is hyperaethetic, as I mentioned, which means he is over
sensitive to touch, irritated by daily sub q's - and THIS is what the
neurologist said she saw a lot in Siamese.
   It's very different to the head jerking which I was remembering as the Siamese
trait, so not relevant to this thread, and I apologise for mixing this up.
   Anyway since stopping sub q's his constant back rippllng has stopped - by the
way we were not doing the sub q's wrong, or pumping him full of air, the vet
gave him a couple of sub qs and saw the exact same thing - so I feel the
hyperaestic diagnosis may be right. He's happy to have his back stroked, but
gets very twitchy/ripply along his back for a minute when he gets shots. Daily
jabs make him constantly ripply and jerky to the touch.

   Here's the relevant bit:
   my vet relayed the neuro's comment as "the twitching / head jerking is likely
to be due to 'normal' ageing changes - likely some degeneration of the
brain/nerves which is seen as animals age especially if their health is not
100%."

   I had asked if the head twitching/jerking could be associated with high
phosphorous and calcium numbers, which he had at the time, and the neuro said
she thought it unlikely as she would expect to see seizures as a first sign if
these were high and not tremors/jerks/shakes.

   Neuro suggested we could try Vivitonin (not licenses in cats in UK) as it
increases blood flow to heart and brain and is used routinely in dogs for brain
changes (and also in some cats she has seen). Since Vivitonin had also been
mentioned for Ras's heart (he had just been diagnosed with HCM too) we did try
Vivitonin for a short time. It did not appear to help his head twitching,
although I'm not sure we tried it long enough to give a fair report, as his HR
was very fast and we decided to switch to Atenolol.

   His head jerks do seem fewer now. I feel that they may be more pronounced when
he is not so stable and feeling less well. But I also feel strong meds make him
this way too. Since both possible events are likely to co-incide it's hard to
pin it down more.
   But given the fact the head jerking with my previous girl did increase as she
got older and sicker, I feel fairly happy with the explanation above from the
neuro.

   Again apologies for my mistake before, hope this helps

   Best

   Sarah

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I want to say how wonderful it has been being a part of this group--the support
I received after my first post 5 months ago about my cat allowed me to put aside
my grief and be there for my cat.  Someone told me that we could learn a lesson
from our cats--they are sick but don't know it and live life with the same joy
and love that the always have.  I watched my cat over that time and found this
to be true. I promised myself and her that knowing the extent of her disease, I
would not let her suffer.  I contacted an at-home euthanasia service two weeks
ago after a scare.  My worst fear was her suffering in pain and breathing
distress while I drove her to a hospital filled with scary people, sounds, and
barking dogs. The doctor I spoke to on the phone was gentle and a wonderful man.
 For the past two days, PB was a little more subdued (everyone that knew her
commented that they could never tell she was sick). I had to call her to
breakfast instead of
  her bounding in, crawling up my leg. She was snuggling under the covers with
me-unusual for her. While I vacuumed, she stayed in the room, watching me--also
very strange.  She loved to escape my apartment and run up the stairs--I usually
followed her and everyday we'd do a building walk.  Her last night, she walked
out to the hall, tore at the carpet as usual, but didn't approach the
stairs.Last night, at 5pm, she jumped on the couch to me and started coughing.
 I listened to her lungs and heard the fluid.  I gave her an extra dose of
lasix.  In a similar episode last week, this had worked. This time it didn't.
 Then I noticed that she had only peed once that day, instead of the usual 5-6.
 I noticed her eyes were dilated.  She let me hold her.  I knew I had a choice
to make and I believe I made the right one and kept my promise to her.  She
never knew debilitation.  She never knew tremendous pain.  She knew I was with
her to the end.  I
  cannot say enough about at home euthanasia.  The vet arrived within 30 minutes.
 She was gentle, kind, caring.  It was heartbreaking but beautiful.  There was
no struggling. Afterward, that vet carried my baby out on her shoulder wrapped
in a towel--her cheek resting against my cat. She even left me with a book on
grieving a pet. Has been helpful during the sleepless night.My heart is breaking
as I write this but I know my baby is happy and at peace.  No more scary
episodes, poking and prodding....I knew how severe she was and I wanted to give
her a good death.  The vet reassured me.  I wish continued love and health to
all of you and your special kitties.  Look and see what lesson you can take from
them.  They are all here for a reason.Peace...Lee

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lee,

I am so sorry to hear about PB.

I really identify with a lot of your posting.   These are similar to the
thoughts I had when I lost Nike last month.

Hugs,

Kevin

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 29, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Lee Grillo <mslee67@...> wrote:

> I want to say how wonderful it has been being a part of this group--the
support I received after my first post 5 months ago about my cat allowed me to
put aside my grief and be there for my cat.  Someone told me that we could learn
a lesson from our cats--they are sick but don't know it and live life with the
same joy and love that the always have.  I watched my cat over that time and
found this to be true. I promised myself and her that knowing the extent of her
disease, I would not let her suffer.  I contacted an at-home euthanasia service
two weeks ago after a scare.  My worst fear was her suffering in pain and
breathing distress while I drove her to a hospital filled with scary people,
sounds, and barking dogs. The doctor I spoke to on the phone was gentle and a
wonderful man.  For the past two days, PB was a little more subdued (everyone
that knew her commented that they could never tell she was sick). I had to call
her to breakfast instead of
> her bounding in, crawling up my leg. She was snuggling under the covers with
me-unusual for her. While I vacuumed, she stayed in the room, watching me--also
very strange.  She loved to escape my apartment and run up the stairs--I usually
followed her and everyday we'd do a building walk.  Her last night, she walked
out to the hall, tore at the carpet as usual, but didn't approach the
stairs.Last night, at 5pm, she jumped on the couch to me and started coughing. 
I listened to her lungs and heard the fluid.  I gave her an extra dose of lasix.
In a similar episode last week, this had worked. This time it didn't.  Then I
noticed that she had only peed once that day, instead of the usual 5-6.  I
noticed her eyes were dilated.  She let me hold her.  I knew I had a choice to
make and I believe I made the right one and kept my promise to her.  She never
knew debilitation.  She never knew tremendous pain.  She knew I was with her to
the end.  I
> cannot say enough about at home euthanasia.  The vet arrived within 30
minutes.  She was gentle, kind, caring.  It was heartbreaking but beautiful. 
There was no struggling. Afterward, that vet carried my baby out on her shoulder
wrapped in a towel--her cheek resting against my cat. She even left me with a
book on grieving a pet. Has been helpful during the sleepless night.My heart is
breaking as I write this but I know my baby is happy and at peace.  No more
scary episodes, poking and prodding....I knew how severe she was and I wanted to
give her a good death.  The vet reassured me.  I wish continued love and health
to all of you and your special kitties.  Look and see what lesson you can take
from them.  They are all here for a reason.Peace...Lee
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lee,
I'm so sorry for the loss of your dear, sweet PB. I'm thankful that you were
able to make that benevolent decision to let her go peacefully. Bless you as you
work your way through your sorrow, and hopefully soon you will be able to smile
and laugh about all the wonderful times you spent with her.
Peace and hugs being sent your way
Joanne
(& Twix, Tigger & Tagg)

Sent from my iPhone
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Sara,
Thanks for your response.  Dante's head twitching seems to have increased
somewhat as he ages but he doesn't do it all the time.  I don't think he's in
pain I just look at him while it's happening and it's kind of weird.  He will be
13 in April.  He has CRF/asthma, the HCM possibility was ruled out by a
specialist who did an echo on him.  I have never heard of the head twitching
being specific to bengals.  I have mentioned it to my vet before and they just
say oh really and I don't get a great explanation.  Your neuro guy's explanation
sounds like the best one I've heard.  Dante' isn't really on alot of meds, just
liquid terbutaline 2x day (can't get any Flovent into him, he won't let me) and
he is on an allergy hyposensitization program (which I don't feel is really
working).  So, that's it.  Thanks for the information though this head twitching
has always puzzled me.
Julia and Dante'

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]