Hi -- this is the problem that can come up if you are unable to see a real
cardiologist. Regular vets who have "taken a class" in echos are not trained or
equipped to take a perfect echo, and their equipment is often old and outdated.
Even if a cardiologist reads the echo, it may not be clear because of the old
equipment or it just being taken by an unskilled person.
If Lahri's heart is being compromised by the thyroid medicine, then you need to
see an endocrinologist about that.
Your own vet is trying to cover her ass by not talking to you about this --- she
does not know the answers, and doesn't want to get into any trouble by trying to
talk about something she doesn't know about. This is why we have to use the
specialists whenever there are serious problems. Where do you live? Some
specialists do consults over the phone or web, etc if you really can't get to
one.
I suggest you post the numbers and your questions on a yahoogroup list called
vettalk, there are some vets on there -- but probably not until after the new
year. very few people online this week.
take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks, Michelle !
You bring up some interesting points that help me think more clearly about facts
and possibilities.
More info I can share:
i) The cardiologist who read the echo is a Diplomate.
ii) The practice told me the tech who took the echo is specially trained to do
so and only comes to the practice twice a week to do so, and the equipment is
new in the last couple years.
iii) The highly acclaimed diagnosing cardiologist, 5 hours away, prescribed the
Methimazole herself, mentioning nothing about needing an endocrinologist, though
there is one (maybe two) in her practice.
iv) Sorry what I wrote did not make this clear. The E-vet was upfront from the
start, saying she did not have the expertise to fully understand what the
Diplomate was saying, expect for the point about "toxic cardiomopathy" vs. HCM
v) I'm in Eureka, CA . . . about 60 miles from the Oregon border and 300 from
San Francisco.
vi) I cannot afford to go to Lahri's cardiologist, especially since I've just
paid $250 for this echo. I AM going to call her practice tomorrow and try to
get help. ALL I want to know is if intervention is necessary at this point and
if so, what I need to do about it.
HUGE THANKS for the vettalk idea! I'll try it.
mb and lahri
----- Original Message -----
From: Westgold
To: mary beth fitzpatrick ; feline-heart
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [FH] Lahri's ECHO DILEMMA . . . Please help if can.
Hi -- this is the problem that can come up if you are unable to see a real
cardiologist. Regular vets who have "taken a class" in echos are not trained or
equipped to take a perfect echo, and their equipment is often old and outdated.
Even if a cardiologist reads the echo, it may not be clear because of the old
equipment or it just being taken by an unskilled person.
If Lahri's heart is being compromised by the thyroid medicine, then you need
to see an endocrinologist about that.
Your own vet is trying to cover her ass by not talking to you about this ---
she does not know the answers, and doesn't want to get into any trouble by
trying to talk about something she doesn't know about. This is why we have to
use the specialists whenever there are serious problems. Where do you live? Some
specialists do consults over the phone or web, etc if you really can't get to
one.
I suggest you post the numbers and your questions on a yahoogroup list called
vettalk, there are some vets on there -- but probably not until after the new
year. very few people online this week.
take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just noticed the specialist who read Lahri's echo is BS, DMV, Diplomate American
Board of Veterinary Practioners (K9 & Feline Practice) CERT. IVUSS. That's not
a cardiologist . . . own heart sinking . . . Don't know what IVUSS is. Have I
gotten caught in a scam? Cannot believe that possible at the moment because
the vet who facilitates these echos if very highly respected and was even
mentioned to me once by the diagnosing vet at distance years ago.
Thanks for anything you can share to help me understand the expertise of this
person.
mb and Lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just found through Google that the specialist who prepared the echo report is a
Diplomate in Small Animal Internal Medicine. Wondering HARD if these
credentials ensure expertise in reading echocardiograms.
HOPE SO. It'll be a bitter pill to swallow if I've gotten caught in a scam.
Thanks, Everybody.
mb and Lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Marybeth
Cardiomyopathy can be secondary to hyperthyroidism. This is what I assume
the diagnosis the cardiologist is making? If the thyroid is treated, then
the CM resolves and gets better. Hyperthyroid is too much production from the
thyroid gland and needs treatment. It is diagnosed by a blood test. There
are several treatment options, tablets, radiation therapy and surgery to
remove excess gland.
Lyn
_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
well he is a specialist, and internal medicine is a good specialty to have ---
he certainly knows more about the inner workings of a cat than any regular vet.
But he is not a cardiologist, with the extra special training they get. Ask on
the vettalk list and see if you can find a cardiologist who will read the echos
for you long-distance. Or you can google to see if there's a site for feline
cardiologists, and perhaps find someone there. I never heard of toxic
cardiomyopathy, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. If the thyroid meds are
doing something to Lahri's heart, somebody must know about this possibility, and
what might be done about it. Do you belong the to thyroid yahoogroup? You can
ask there. Unfortunately not many people online the next couple days ---
----- Original Message -----
From: mary beth fitzpatrick
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 6:12 PM
Subject: [FH] Lahri Echo Dilemma PS PS
Just found through Google that the specialist who prepared the echo report is
a Diplomate in Small Animal Internal Medicine. Wondering HARD if these
credentials ensure expertise in reading echocardiograms.
HOPE SO. It'll be a bitter pill to swallow if I've gotten caught in a scam.
Thanks, Everybody.
mb and Lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have discovered via the CA Veterinary Medical Board that the status of the vet
who prepared the results is DELINQUENT. He was licenced in May 1998 and did not
renew his license on Sept. 30, 1999. THIS explains why there was so much talk
among staff about his being Italian and living all over the world - oohing and
awing about him. NO SUCH OOHING GOING ON WITH ME.
I am just now getting feeling it is highly appropriate to tell all of you the
vet's name and that of his worldwide business so that no one of you gets caught
as I have. WILL WAIT TO HEAR WHAT MODERATORS HAVE TO SAY, THOUGH, BEFORE DOING
SO.
mb and Lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I just found this group and wanted to share a little as well as get some
feedback. My sweet boy, Jack, was diagnosed with HCM at the age of 7 months. At
the time of diagnosis, the cardiologist said that he probably wouldn't live past
3. He did caution me that cats are resilient and are always ready to surprise!
Well, Jack is 9 years old and has had no clinical symptoms until this past
November. He has been such a love and a big one at that! He has been in the
26-28 pound range for several years. I limit him to about half a cup of food
each day, so I guess genetics played a big role in his size. I am always
measuring his breathing rate and started noticing that it was going up. I took
him to the vet and was told that he was in the beginning stages of congestive
heart failure. While I knew that I was lucky to have had a healthy boy for so
long, I was devastated that we were finally going down this path. Since then,
his furosemide dose has been increased to about 19mg daily and his breathing
rate is back to 28-32 bpm. He seems to be back to his normal self but is having
some issues with constipation and isn't eating as much. He still loves his
treats and drinks plenty of water. He doesn't care for pumpkin, so the vet told
me to try some Metamucil on his food. I started that yesterday and also diluted
about 1/2 tsp of Metamucil and gave to him via syringe. I was wondering how
long it might take to work. I think he has been eating a bit more today so I
haven't given him any Metamucil by syringe.
This most recent diagnosis is still so new and I find myself constantly
worrying, checking his breathing rate and just wishing he didn't have to go
through this. I am so sad and he is back to normal! It is my hope to deal with
all of this and enjoy him for as long as I have him...maybe even years.
Does anyone have any experience with the constipation issues and some info on
how long it takes the Metamucil to start working?
Metamucil is a strange and wonderful thing. It does take a few days to start
working, but once you start giving it you need to give it everyday forever. If
you skip a day or two, the problem only gets a lot worse, and takes longer to
resolve the next time. It might be better if you simply changed Jack to all
canned food, nothing dry at all, and add extra water to the canned food. He
will also lose some weight on this diet, and reduce the strain on his heart. It
is the carbs in the dry food that make and keep our kitties fat. He needs a
high-protein low-carb diet to reduce. Stop all treats too, except for cooked
chicken, turkey -- treats are high carb and also contain sugar. Most cases of
constipation can be helped a lot by canned food --
----- Original Message -----
From: lisah2343
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:10 PM
Subject: [FH] My Jack
I just found this group and wanted to share a little as well as get some
feedback. My sweet boy, Jack, was diagnosed with HCM at the age of 7 months. At
the time of diagnosis, the cardiologist said that he probably wouldn't live past
3. He did caution me that cats are resilient and are always ready to surprise!
Well, Jack is 9 years old and has had no clinical symptoms until this past
November. He has been such a love and a big one at that! He has been in the
26-28 pound range for several years. I limit him to about half a cup of food
each day, so I guess genetics played a big role in his size. I am always
measuring his breathing rate and started noticing that it was going up. I took
him to the vet and was told that he was in the beginning stages of congestive
heart failure. While I knew that I was lucky to have had a healthy boy for so
long, I was devastated that we were finally going down this path. Since then,
his furosemide dose has been increased to about 1 9mg daily and his breathing
rate is back to 28-32 bpm. He seems to be back to his normal self but is having
some issues with constipation and isn't eating as much. He still loves his
treats and drinks plenty of water. He doesn't care for pumpkin, so the vet told
me to try some Metamucil on his food. I started that yesterday and also diluted
about 1/2 tsp of Metamucil and gave to him via syringe. I was wondering how long
it might take to work. I think he has been eating a bit more today so I haven't
given him any Metamucil by syringe.
This most recent diagnosis is still so new and I find myself constantly
worrying, checking his breathing rate and just wishing he didn't have to go
through this. I am so sad and he is back to normal! It is my hope to deal with
all of this and enjoy him for as long as I have him...maybe even years.
Does anyone have any experience with the constipation issues and some info on
how long it takes the Metamucil to start working?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello,
Â
There is an excellent website for feline constipation:
http://www.felineconstipation.org
Â
Do have a look at this as it has lots of essential information on treating
constipation in kitties.
Â
Peas and green beans can be used instead of pumpkin:
http://www.felineconstipation.org/prevention.html#FiberorPrebiotics
Â
I'm in the UK and pumpkin is not easily available, so I tried peas and both my
kitties eat these mixed in with their food no problem - 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon mixed
into a couple of their meals a day.
Â
Hope this helps and that Jack is soon feeling better.
Â
Best wishes,
Â
June, Freddie and Daisy
________________________________
 :
From: lisah2343
To: mailto:feline-heart%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2012 10:10 PM
Subject: [FH] My Jack
I just found this group and wanted to share a little as well as get some
feedback. My sweet boy, Jack, was diagnosed with HCM at the age of 7 months. At
the time of diagnosis, the cardiologist said that he probably wouldn't live past
3. He did caution me that cats are resilient and are always ready to surprise!
Well, Jack is 9 years old and has had no clinical symptoms until this past
November. He has been such a love and a big one at that! He has been in the
26-28 pound range for several years. I limit him to about half a cup of food
each day, so I guess genetics played a big role in his size. I am always
measuring his breathing rate and started noticing that it was going up. I took
him to the vet and was told that he was in the beginning stages of congestive
heart failure. While I knew that I was lucky to have had a healthy boy for so
long, I was devastated that we were finally going down this path. Since then,
his furosemide dose has been increased to
about 1 9mg daily and his breathing rate is back to 28-32 bpm. He seems to be
back to his normal self but is having some issues with constipation and isn't
eating as much. He still loves his treats and drinks plenty of water. He doesn't
care for pumpkin, so the vet told me to try some Metamucil on his food. I
started that yesterday and also diluted about 1/2 tsp of Metamucil and gave to
him via syringe. I was wondering how long it might take to work. I think he has
been eating a bit more today so I haven't given him any Metamucil by syringe.
This most recent diagnosis is still so new and I find myself constantly
worrying, checking his breathing rate and just wishing he didn't have to go
through this. I am so sad and he is back to normal! It is my hope to deal with
all of this and enjoy him for as long as I have him...maybe even years.
Does anyone have any experience with the constipation issues and some info on
how long it takes the Metamucil to start working?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi
I am sorry to hear Jack has gone into heart failure. But there is a lot can
be done. Has he had an echo recently to see how his heart is? The
frucimide will help prevent fluid build up but he may need other drugs too to
help
his heart relax and hopefully reduce his frucimide when he is stable. These
might be ace inhibitors or beta blockers. Has he seen a cardiologist
recently? My Trixi was diagnosed at 3 months and went into heart failure and
they gave her a lot of drugs. She is still on those, but only takes a very
small diuretic.
Lyn
_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Does Jack have a cardiologist? Was an ultrasound done on the heart? There are
other medications in addition to the lasix that may help Jack's heart.
As far as constipation, does Jack regularly poop or is he not pooping at all?
If he is not going at all Metamucil probably won't help as he may be blocked.
My kitty was straining with hard poop but would go regularly... we added Miralax
to her diet and she has been doing much better. It takes a few days to kick in
as it only changes newly forming poop, not poop already there.
I am glad Jack is doing better :-)
Laurie and Boo
--- On Sun, 12/30/12, lisah2343 <hobgoodlisa@...> wrote:
From: lisah2343 <hobgoodlisa@...>
Subject: [FH] My Jack
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 10:10 PM
I just found this group and wanted to share a little as well as get some
feedback. My sweet boy, Jack, was diagnosed with HCM at the age of 7 months. At
the time of diagnosis, the cardiologist said that he probably wouldn't live past
3. He did caution me that cats are resilient and are always ready to surprise!
Well, Jack is 9 years old and has had no clinical symptoms until this past
November. He has been such a love and a big one at that! He has been in the
26-28 pound range for several years. I limit him to about half a cup of food
each day, so I guess genetics played a big role in his size. I am always
measuring his breathing rate and started noticing that it was going up. I took
him to the vet and was told that he was in the beginning stages of congestive
heart failure. While I knew that I was lucky to have had a healthy boy for so
long, I was devastated that we were finally going down this path. Since then,
his furosemide dose has
been increased to about 19mg daily and his breathing rate is back to 28-32 bpm.
He seems to be back to his normal self but is having some issues with
constipation and isn't eating as much. He still loves his treats and drinks
plenty of water. He doesn't care for pumpkin, so the vet told me to try some
Metamucil on his food. I started that yesterday and also diluted about 1/2 tsp
of Metamucil and gave to him via syringe. I was wondering how long it might
take to work. I think he has been eating a bit more today so I haven't given
him any Metamucil by syringe.
This most recent diagnosis is still so new and I find myself constantly
worrying, checking his breathing rate and just wishing he didn't have to go
through this. I am so sad and he is back to normal! It is my hope to deal with
all of this and enjoy him for as long as I have him...maybe even years.
Does anyone have any experience with the constipation issues and some info on
how long it takes the Metamucil to start working?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
OHH !!!!!
Found the business of the vet who signed off on the echo and emailed, asking the
very questions I just shared with you about how I can possibly trust , etc.
He wrote back this a.m. from what looks like his personal email account with
this:
We didn't read the case so I really cannot comment. Regards
Lindquist from the I 5
I'm shaking . . . Was just looking at how STONE STILL Lah is when resting.
Even though I keep seeing him coming back and he's just now gotten to an alert
position on his belly and looks alert and OK, I'm scared about how he looks when
he get into that other mode . . .
Thanks for listening.
mb and lah
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorry, forgot to let you know I WROTE BACK TO THE EMAIL ADDRESS letting him know
HIS NAME IS ON THE ECHO REPORT and making clear my own heartbreak and fear over
this.
PLEASE KNOW this is truly happening. YES, I'm filled with grief still over
Buddie and am just getting easy about the condition of her sibblings who're just
coming through the herpes flare-up, and am WORRIED SICK about this
stone-stillness of Lahri's when he's resting. I do NOT believe it myself, but
it is happening If I couldn't feel my fingers on these keys and see the typos,
etc, I would think it as all just an early morning NIGHTMARE.
If I get permission from moderators,, I will scan and send anything in the
report you want to see and share all the other information about this vet I have
found on the internet. As soon as the offices open (it's 6:30 PT here), I am
calling. HOPE they're there today.
ALL of that said, I KNOW it's within the realm of possibility that there is a
legitimate explanation for all of this . . . and I NEED TO BELIEVE that right
now.
Thank you for standing by me in this.
mb and lahri
I
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Phewwww . . . long response from vet just arrived. Feeling relieved some. Vet
apologized for not having recognized Lahri's name, saying they "read a lot of
cases," etc.
This part I'm quoting.
"There are many qualified specialists that read ultrasound from cardiology to
abdominal to cardiac to thyroid. I have been doing this for 18 years now with
hundreds of thousands of echocardiology cases in my history. It is just a part
of the industry but it is not necessary to have a cardiologist to evaluate an
echocardiogram as long as the specialist is qualified just like it isnt
necessary for a nephrologist to examine a kidney sonogram."
OK, I can understand that as radiologists do reports on humans all the time.
What snags me is "as long as the specialist is qualified." WHAT CONSTITUTES
being qualified to evaluate an echocardiogram? Just doing it for 18 years? Or
does a vet need special training in the heart?
VERY GRATEFUL the moderators did NOT give me permission to share this vet's
name. He and his business may be legitimate . . . and the Board of Veterinary
Practitioners might even clear up why his name is not listed as a Diplomate.
THANKS again for hanging with me.
mb and lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Just got response from American Board of Veterinary Practitions. The vet IS a
Diplomate. He is not listed on their site because he had "not complete some
business information."
BTW - did nOT think I'd hear anything from ABVP today as their outgoing message
tells of very short staffing right now. That the woman took time to call me is
thrilling. She heard my distress and called as soon as she could. I don't
think it was even 5 minutes after I'd left the message.
Phewww . . . feeling better.
mb and lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I second the motion about all canned food. When I removed all dry from Martha's
diet, it was almost like a miracle. Weight came off, she became more active, and
her diabetes is now in remission.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Blessings,
Lynda Doty, Ph.D.
Martha, Morelli and Angel C.B.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Westgold <westgold@...
It might be better if you simply changed Jack to all canned food, nothing dry
at all, and add extra water to the canned food. He will also lose some weight on
this diet, and reduce the strain on his heart. It is the carbs in the dry food
that make and keep our kitties fat. He needs a high-protein low-carb diet to
reduce. Stop all treats too, except for cooked chicken, turkey -- treats are
high carb and also contain sugar. Most cases of constipation can be helped a lot
by canned food --
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello !
One of you has just reminded me that Lahri might well need a Free T4 test and
I'm trying to remember what that's all about.
His T4 last week came in at 2.8 and two vets referring to it as a gray zone
figure, said they were uncomfortable raising the methimazole. Lahri was
diagnosed with mild HCM in 09 but it was quickly under control once he was on
Methimazole. He gets 1/4 of a 2.5 table in the a.m. and 1/2 in the p.m Can
any of you weigh in with more information on why he needs a FREE T4?
Lahri is looking better with each day, the herpes flare-up with exhausting
sneezing almost indetectible. I am still concerned about his resting state
making him look so strangely stone-like. Just when I'm starting to panic,
though, he'll change position to the belly or stand up, and he's a normal cat
again. (The echo, if it is indeed credible, says there's nothing to worry
about re the heart.) Can any of you weigh in on this stone-like appearance at
resting?
MANY THANKS !
mb and lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
hi Mary Beth,
A Free T4 is a more accurate test for how the thyroid is doing. We never really
trust the regular T4 that is done on a regular blood panel. Our Misty will have
a normal range T4 and her Free T4 will be elevated or sub normal.
The dose of Methimazole you're giving, 1/4 and 1/2 is a huge dose for a "mid
range" T4. We only give Misty 1/4 and 1/8 a tablet. She weighs only just under
10 lbs though, so your dose may be because Lahri weighs more than Misty.
There is a really great hyperthyroid group you should join.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Thyroid_Support/
Carol
-----Original Message-----
From: mary beth fitzpatrick <marybethfitzpatrick@...>
To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 11:10 am
Subject: [FH] Lahri FREE T4???
Hello !
One of you has just reminded me that Lahri might well need a Free T4 test and
I'm trying to remember what that's all about.
His T4 last week came in at 2.8 and two vets referring to it as a gray zone
figure, said they were uncomfortable raising the methimazole. Lahri was
diagnosed with mild HCM in 09 but it was quickly under control once he was on
Methimazole. He gets 1/4 of a 2.5 table in the a.m. and 1/2 in the p.m Can
any of you weigh in with more information on why he needs a FREE T4?
Lahri is looking better with each day, the herpes flare-up with exhausting
sneezing almost indetectible. I am still concerned about his resting state
making him look so strangely stone-like. Just when I'm starting to panic,
though, he'll change position to the belly or stand up, and he's a normal cat
again. (The echo, if it is indeed credible, says there's nothing to worry
about re the heart.) Can any of you weigh in on this stone-like appearance at
resting?
MANY THANKS !
mb and lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
THANKS, CAROL !
Lahri was an 8 pound + kitty until just losing almost a pound during all the
grief and herpes flare-up. He's at 7 and 5 oz right now.
I ABSOLUTELY TRUST the cardiologist who prescribed it in 09. She very highly
respected.
Once I can get past some things, will join the thyroid group. THANKS for
getting me there !
PS SUPERB NEWS JUST IN. Have been able to leave message for original
cardiologist. Whatever information comes from her regarding the "specialist"
who analyzed the echo will be definitive.
m b and lahri
----- Original Message -----
From: Carol
To: marybethfitzpatrick@... ; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 31, 2012 11:54 AM
Subject: Re: [FH] Lahri FREE T4???
hi Mary Beth,
A Free T4 is a more accurate test for how the thyroid is doing. We never
really trust the regular T4 that is done on a regular blood panel. Our Misty
will have a normal range T4 and her Free T4 will be elevated or sub normal.
The dose of Methimazole you're giving, 1/4 and 1/2 is a huge dose for a "mid
range" T4. We only give Misty 1/4 and 1/8 a tablet. She weighs only just under
10 lbs though, so your dose may be because Lahri weighs more than Misty.
There is a really great hyperthyroid group you should join.
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Feline_Thyroid_Support/
Carol
-----Original Message-----
From: mary beth fitzpatrick <marybethfitzpatrick@...>
To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 31, 2012 11:10 am
Subject: [FH] Lahri FREE T4???
Hello !
One of you has just reminded me that Lahri might well need a Free T4 test and
I'm trying to remember what that's all about.
His T4 last week came in at 2.8 and two vets referring to it as a gray zone
figure, said they were uncomfortable raising the methimazole. Lahri was
diagnosed with mild HCM in 09 but it was quickly under control once he was on
Methimazole. He gets 1/4 of a 2.5 table in the a.m. and 1/2 in the p.m Can any
of you weigh in with more information on why he needs a FREE T4?
Lahri is looking better with each day, the herpes flare-up with exhausting
sneezing almost indetectible. I am still concerned about his resting state
making him look so strangely stone-like. Just when I'm starting to panic,
though, he'll change position to the belly or stand up, and he's a normal cat
again. (The echo, if it is indeed credible, says there's nothing to worry about
re the heart.) Can any of you weigh in on this stone-like appearance at resting?
MANY THANKS !
mb and lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It has not taken long to identify there are at least two very different camps
with regard to who is qualified to evaluate a heart and its function (whether
feline and human). Lahri's own cardiologist has no interest in even looking
at the work of the sonographer who evaluated his echo. I fully understand,
deeply appreciate her reasons and have very little confidence in the validity of
the echo from the sonographer. Having witnessed at least five echos with the
cardiologist, I am familiar with its interactive quality. For example, using
only my own crude language: When she sees X, she looks for Y (maybe Z, Q, V,
F...). When she can't find Y, she looks for something else. When she gets what
she's looking for, she takes precise measurements, comparing those as she goes
along with others that follow. Only then does she move on to what she knows to
be the next location or level of concern, the evaluation of which may well send
her back to an earlier location for reassessment.She interacts with the echo as
if she were moving her hands and eyes inside the heart, the physical and
functional aspects of which she understands in all of their subtleties. How can
such finesse be achieved by a sonographer who receives a completed
echocardiogram which precludes 'interacting with' the heart, considering
different takes on it at various stages of its function, for example, as the
heart itself is no longer available? Many more questions could surely be asked.
That said, I'm beginning to discover there are vets whose opinions differ. At
the least, they site special training which enables echosonographers to know
what to look for. I've had a number of sonograms done in my life and not one by
the specialist herself. However, not a single sonographer has been able to tell
me what she's seen. Protocol is surely a part of that, but I think it's also
because a sonographer doesn't have the training which ensures the kind of
understanding of a gynecologist, orthopaedist, urologist, etc. In my own
uneducated words, sonographers can IDENTIFY parts and functions, but the depth
and breadth of understanding available to a specialist in the area is beyond
them.
I do feel taken in, but much less so now that I know there are vets who feel
sonographers can do an adequate job of assessing feline hearts. Personally,
though, I'm finding it impossible to be comfortable with such adequacy when it
comes to the heart and its complexities. What can I do? All I know at this
point is this. My intuition was strong that Lahri needed an echo and I needed
not to spend the nearly $1K (maybe more) it was going to take with the previous
cardiologist. I assumed that ONLY a cardiologist would be evaluating the echo
and was not alert enough to ask why staff at the clinic never referred to the
evaluater as a cardiologist even as I persisted in doing so. Some very valuable
lessons here. It is my hope this message can help others avoid the situation I
have gotten myself into.
That said, the sonographer did suggest the possibility of hypertension in Lahri.
He got a BP test yesterday, about which all I could find out was that while his
BP began at 150, it rose to 200. Tomorrow, he will be examined by a vet at the
usual practice and I will find out what the latter really means with regard to
hypertension, and perhaps what needs to be done to correct it.
The sonographer may well have done us a great favor through that suggestion.
Nothing written in stone, just reflections that may be useful to some of you.
Thank you very much for your understanding and support.
mb and lahri
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hello Everyone,
Just wanted to send out a little progress report on Chloe. We successfully made
it through Christmas and New Year's without any serious difficulties - thank
goodness. Chloe was brought in for another comprehensive checkup last Friday -
heart sounds good, weight is low but stable, bloodwork has actually improved.
Chloe's bloodwork results:12/28/2012
Urea Nitrogen - 70mg - was 124
Creatinine - 3.5 - was 4.0
Phosphorus - 4.7 - was 5.1
Sodium - 152mmol/L
Potassium - 3.5mmol/L - *very good
Chloride - 123mmol/L
Hct - 35%
Hb - 11g/dL
Chloe was slightly dehydrated, so it was a good time for my first lesson in
administering the Sub-Q fluids. Thanks to the great folks here suggesting I
watch some YouTube videos, I was somewhat familiar with the procedure
beforehand.
I watched the vet tech set up the apparatus, but got Chloe into the proper
position and injected her by myself - it all went quickly and smoothly - Yea!
Chloe was farily calm throughout the ordeal - but afterward when I tried to get
her into her carrier, she went nuts and practically blew the house down yelling.
The vet said this was great :) as it showed Chloe's much improved ability to
breathe - as any cat that can yell that loudly has quite a bit of breathing
space!
All along, Chloe's biggest problem has been her extremely poor appetite.
However, after a little trial and error I discovered the "magic elixir" - the
liquid from "Bumble Bee Very Low Sodium Solid White Albacore Tuna in Water". I
drain the cans, then add a couple of teaspoons to Chloe's Fancy Feast (along
with a few tiny flakes of the tuna itself)- Chloe (for the moment) loves it and
is definitely more interested in eating. Vet approves, so as long as Chloe
continues to enjoy her tuna, we're all happy.
Chloe's still on the enalapril/spiro/lasix combo - with the lasix skipped every
other AM - The vet wants to try to decrease the lasix again after her next visit
to help out Chloe's kidneys - I'm reluctant to change anything at this point, so
we'll see...
Again, thank you all for your advice and support. I'm just taking it moment by
moment and enjoying each day Chloe and I have together...
Prayers and Purrs we all have a Happy, Healthy, Peaceful New Year,
Suzanne and Chloe
Wonderful news! Thanks so much for the update
----- Original Message -----
From: zan200
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2013 12:59 PM
Subject: [FH] Happy New Year - Chloe Update
Hello Everyone,
Just wanted to send out a little progress report on Chloe. We successfully
made it through Christmas and New Year's without any serious difficulties -
thank goodness. Chloe was brought in for another comprehensive checkup last
Friday - heart sounds good, weight is low but stable, bloodwork has actually
improved.
Chloe's bloodwork results:12/28/2012
Urea Nitrogen - 70mg - was 124
Creatinine - 3.5 - was 4.0
Phosphorus - 4.7 - was 5.1
Sodium - 152mmol/L
Potassium - 3.5mmol/L - *very good
Chloride - 123mmol/L
Hct - 35%
Hb - 11g/dL
Chloe was slightly dehydrated, so it was a good time for my first lesson in
administering the Sub-Q fluids. Thanks to the great folks here suggesting I
watch some YouTube videos, I was somewhat familiar with the procedure
beforehand.
I watched the vet tech set up the apparatus, but got Chloe into the proper
position and injected her by myself - it all went quickly and smoothly - Yea!
Chloe was farily calm throughout the ordeal - but afterward when I tried to get
her into her carrier, she went nuts and practically blew the house down yelling.
The vet said this was great :) as it showed Chloe's much improved ability to
breathe - as any cat that can yell that loudly has quite a bit of breathing
space!
All along, Chloe's biggest problem has been her extremely poor appetite.
However, after a little trial and error I discovered the "magic elixir" - the
liquid from "Bumble Bee Very Low Sodium Solid White Albacore Tuna in Water". I
drain the cans, then add a couple of teaspoons to Chloe's Fancy Feast (along
with a few tiny flakes of the tuna itself)- Chloe (for the moment) loves it and
is definitely more interested in eating. Vet approves, so as long as Chloe
continues to enjoy her tuna, we're all happy.
Chloe's still on the enalapril/spiro/lasix combo - with the lasix skipped
every other AM - The vet wants to try to decrease the lasix again after her next
visit to help out Chloe's kidneys - I'm reluctant to change anything at this
point, so we'll see...
Again, thank you all for your advice and support. I'm just taking it moment by
moment and enjoying each day Chloe and I have together...
Prayers and Purrs we all have a Happy, Healthy, Peaceful New Year,
Suzanne and Chloe
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Hi Lisa,
My 18 1/2 year old Burmese, Chloe was diagnosed with severe HCM in early
November after developing serious breathing issues. Ultrasound showed Chloe to
be in complete heart failure with an enlarged heart (3X normal size). Chloe was
immediately put on Lasix (furosimide) - it helped for a week or two, but her
respiration rate continued to increase, as she again filled up with fluid. The
Lasix on its own did not work for Chloe.
The vet immediately added enalapril and spirolactone along with the Lasix as an
emergency last resort effort to save Chloe's life - at this point the vet said
Chloe's condition was grave...
The additional meds began to work almost immediately - Chloe respiration rapidly
decreased and she began to improve - subsequent checkups revealed good breathing
sounds, free lung space, etc. If ever the Lasix on its own doesn't seem to be
working as well for Jack, just know there are other meds that can be added to
the Lasix regimen to keep Jack's respiration rate down.
As far as the constipation issue - Chloe has always been on the constipated side
- I've been able to control it fairly well with daily doses of Laxatone. Chloe
loves it, so I increase/decrease the amounts depending on what's going on with
her "bowel-wise". I give it as a treat after her meds. Don't know if this is of
any help, or if you can try using some Laxatone in addition to your Metamucil
therapy.
Sending you and Jack prayers and postive thoughts,
Suzanne and Chloe
--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "lisah2343" <hobgoodlisa@...> wrote:
>
> I just found this group and wanted to share a little as well as get some
feedback. My sweet boy, Jack, was diagnosed with HCM at the age of 7 months. At
the time of diagnosis, the cardiologist said that he probably wouldn't live past
3. He did caution me that cats are resilient and are always ready to surprise!
Well, Jack is 9 years old and has had no clinical symptoms until this past
November. He has been such a love and a big one at that! He has been in the
26-28 pound range for several years. I limit him to about half a cup of food
each day, so I guess genetics played a big role in his size. I am always
measuring his breathing rate and started noticing that it was going up. I took
him to the vet and was told that he was in the beginning stages of congestive
heart failure. While I knew that I was lucky to have had a healthy boy for so
long, I was devastated that we were finally going down this path. Since then,
his furosemide dose has been increased to about 19mg daily and his breathing
rate is back to 28-32 bpm. He seems to be back to his normal self but is having
some issues with constipation and isn't eating as much. He still loves his
treats and drinks plenty of water. He doesn't care for pumpkin, so the vet told
me to try some Metamucil on his food. I started that yesterday and also diluted
about 1/2 tsp of Metamucil and gave to him via syringe. I was wondering how
long it might take to work. I think he has been eating a bit more today so I
haven't given him any Metamucil by syringe.
>
> This most recent diagnosis is still so new and I find myself constantly
worrying, checking his breathing rate and just wishing he didn't have to go
through this. I am so sad and he is back to normal! It is my hope to deal with
all of this and enjoy him for as long as I have him...maybe even years.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the constipation issues and some info on
how long it takes the Metamucil to start working?
>
That is wonderful news about Chloe :-)
I would want to see her stable longer before changing what is working,
specifically the lasix. You can continue to have blood work done to be sure the
kidneys do not worsen, but the heart should be priority.
Here's to very happy and HEALTHY 2013 !
Laurie and Boo
--- On Tue, 1/1/13, zan200 <zan200@...> wrote:
From: zan200 <zan200@...>
Subject: [FH] Happy New Year - Chloe Update
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, January 1, 2013, 12:59 PM
Hello Everyone,
Just wanted to send out a little progress report on Chloe. We successfully made
it through Christmas and New Year's without any serious difficulties - thank
goodness. Chloe was brought in for another comprehensive checkup last Friday -
heart sounds good, weight is low but stable, bloodwork has actually improved.
Chloe's bloodwork results:12/28/2012
Urea Nitrogen - 70mg - was 124
Creatinine - 3.5 - was 4.0
Phosphorus - 4.7 - was 5.1
Sodium - 152mmol/L
Potassium - 3.5mmol/L - *very good
Chloride - 123mmol/L
Hct - 35%
Hb - 11g/dL
Chloe was slightly dehydrated, so it was a good time for my first lesson in
administering the Sub-Q fluids. Thanks to the great folks here suggesting I
watch some YouTube videos, I was somewhat familiar with the procedure
beforehand.
I watched the vet tech set up the apparatus, but got Chloe into the proper
position and injected her by myself - it all went quickly and smoothly - Yea!
Chloe was farily calm throughout the ordeal - but afterward when I tried to get
her into her carrier, she went nuts and practically blew the house down yelling.
The vet said this was great :) as it showed Chloe's much improved ability to
breathe - as any cat that can yell that loudly has quite a bit of breathing
space!
All along, Chloe's biggest problem has been her extremely poor appetite.
However, after a little trial and error I discovered the "magic elixir" - the
liquid from "Bumble Bee Very Low Sodium Solid White Albacore Tuna in Water". I
drain the cans, then add a couple of teaspoons to Chloe's Fancy Feast (along
with a few tiny flakes of the tuna itself)- Chloe (for the moment) loves it and
is definitely more interested in eating. Vet approves, so as long as Chloe
continues to enjoy her tuna, we're all happy.
Chloe's still on the enalapril/spiro/lasix combo - with the lasix skipped every
other AM - The vet wants to try to decrease the lasix again after her next visit
to help out Chloe's kidneys - I'm reluctant to change anything at this point, so
we'll see...
Again, thank you all for your advice and support. I'm just taking it moment by
moment and enjoying each day Chloe and I have together...
Prayers and Purrs we all have a Happy, Healthy, Peaceful New Year,
Suzanne and Chloe
_
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
A person recently posted on the Fanciers Health list about her cat that is
receiving Chemo. Poor woman receive zero responses. I remember reading on here
a while back about a Yahoo group that was specifically for people with cats
receiving chemo. Do any of you know that name of that group or any other place
where this person could receive information and answers to her questions?
Thanks so much for your help.
Roxann Vass
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorry, replied directly to you instead of group. You might have this person join
the feline lymphoma group where we do have experience with chemo, and can answer
her questions and share our experiences.
Bob
Sent from my iPhone
On Jan 1, 2013, at 2:47 PM, Roxann Vass <creekragdolls@...> wrote:
> A person recently posted on the Fanciers Health list about her cat that is
receiving Chemo. Poor woman receive zero responses. I remember reading on here
a while back about a Yahoo group that was specifically for people with cats
receiving chemo. Do any of you know that name of that group or any other place
where this person could receive information and answers to her questions?
Thanks so much for your help.
> Roxann Vass
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
feline-cancer@yahoogroups.com,
This is the group...I belong to it. The members there are wonderful!
Marianna
-----Original Message-----
From: Roxann Vass <creekragdolls@...>
To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, Jan 1, 2013 3:48 pm
Subject: [FH] Yahoo group for cat receiving chemo
A person recently posted on the Fanciers Health list about her cat that is
receiving Chemo. Poor woman receive zero responses. I remember reading on here
a while back about a Yahoo group that was specifically for people with cats
receiving chemo. Do any of you know that name of that group or any other place
where this person could receive information and answers to her questions?
Thanks so much for your help.
Roxann Vass
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Beth, all or most vets present themselves as all knowing therefore you
must do web search to see where their area of expertise is. More are bad
then good. They are nothing more than rabies shot experts. Sorry but it's
true. Cold facts so check their degrees closely
Bill
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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