Sorry, I forgot to add the Wikipedia links to earlier posts:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atenolol


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_blocker




>________________________________
> From: joanne marbut <jomarbut@...>
>To: mary beth fitzpatrick <marybethfitzpatrick@...>; Joanne
Haeussinger <chmiss01@...>; "feline-heart@yahoogroups.com"
<feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 9:52 PM
>Subject: Re: [FH] Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy
>
>
> 
>Atenolol slows the heart rate thereby lowering blood pressure, easing the work
the heart does, etc. It's good for preventing heart attacks, CHF, etc.  It does
this in a number of ways due to the fact that it's a beta blocker. Read the
Wikipedia page.
>
>>________________________________
>> From: mary beth fitzpatrick marybethfitzpatrick@...>
>>To: Joanne Haeussinger chmiss01@...>; feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
>>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 4:33 PM
>>Subject: Re: [FH] Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy
>>
>>
>> 
>>Very interesting all the sharing.  Thanks, Karen, for getting all of us in
gear.
>>
>>Karen's question about whether her little one does not need Atenolol has me
wondering about the use of Atenolol in general.
>>When is it necessary and when not?  When Lahri was diagnosed in '06 with "Mild
focal concentric hypertrophy of the septum (maybe) secondary to mild early
hylpertrophic cardiomyopathy, systemic hypertension, or hyperthyroidism," the
highly respected cardiologist wrote, "The changes are so mild that treatment
with Atenolol or anticoagulants  is not recommended at this time."  After an
echo months later, she wrote:  "The mild concentric hypertrophy is not secondary
to systemic hypertension or hyperthyroidism, and is due to mild hypertrophic
cardiomyopathy."  She still prescribed no meds.  Two more echos in '07 got him
to "Static mild hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy with no progression over
the past year of monitoring" and even " mild risk of sudden death is present"
but still with no meds.  Toward the end of '08, she said:  "Mild progression in
the HCM to mild-moderate severity with upper mild severity of SAM obstruction"
and did presribe Atenolol.
>At this time, she also found hyperthyroidism and prescribed Methimazole.  When
she saw "Marked reduction in left ventricular hypertrophy on the methimazole and
atenolol, with no appreciable wall hypertrophy . .  and only subtle papillary
hypertrophy, mild diastolic dysfunction, and no SMA at this time on Atenolol
[and] suspect[ed] a ,majority of the improvement is due to the control of the
hyperthyroidism, although it is possible the atenolol could have contributed,"
she found it "not . . . necessary" to continue the Atenolol.   By June 2010, her
conclusion was "Equivocal to mild HCM" and "No specific cardiac medications are
now needed."   He's been doing fine without any heart medication since that
time.  (I say 'fine' here also with the admission that, for financial reasons,
we stopped getting him echoed.   We did just find out through HEMOPET that his
hyperthyroidism now requires more Methimazole,. which he's now getting.)  
Anyway . . . just
>wondering at all the posts implying Atenolol is desirable, if not necessary,
even if a cat is presenting with only mild HCM.
>>
>>Maybe I'm asking too much here.  Sorry, if that's the case.  Just let me know.
The posts just have me wondering if maybe, though Lahri seems to be doing so
well, he still needs Atenolol . . . and maybe, at least for the sake of the
prescription, I need to get him back to the cardiologist somehow.
>>
>>Thanks.
>>mb and lahri
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: Joanne Haeussinger
>>To: Westgold
>>Cc: joanne marbut ; feline-heart
>>Sent: Monday, February 18, 2013 12:42 PM
>>Subject: Re: [FH] Hypertrophic Cardiomyopathy
>>
>>Yes, Karen,
>>Michelle and I have similar experiences in which both our Tiggers were caught
early and mine only takes Atenelol. Lasix is only for when they go into failure
(like my Twix did last year), and so your baby kitten may not need any other
meds for quite some time. I'd follow the instructions of your cardiologist, and
if you're interested in adding other supplements, consult him/her first. But,
please don't worry too much. You're lucky you caught it early. :)
>>Blessings to you and your little one!
>>Joanne, Twix, Tigger and Tagg
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi everybody!
I am new to this group.
My cat Kaiser, 16 and 5 month has been diagnosed with CRD about two years ago.
I gave him subQ fluids which helped a lot but lately he got mild cardiomyopathie
and mild pericardial effusion, due to the treatment with Luis, I guess.

The cardiologist prescribed pimobendan, at about 0.17/kg 2x daily
I was very reluctant to give it to him because of possible side effects and
sudden death I had read about, but after one month of trying homeopathic
medications I decided to give him pimobendan .

He's heart works better, but he is sleeping ALL day!
He eats, purrs, and sleeps.

Has anybody experienced similar behavior?
Does it get better with the time?
I don't know if to continue or stop the medication..

Thanks for your help,
                           Daniela & Kaiser

Hi Daniela

Has your cat had an ultrasound to diagnose the heart condition. if not, I
would ask to see a cardiologist and have one done so that you can find out
what  would help most. You now need to balance the heart and kidneys.

I have two cats on pimobendan. Both are very serious heart cases and one
was given it as a last resort with no chance to live and pulled through.
Milli  and Trixi have had it with a mix of other medications for years with no
side  effects at all. The sleepiness should go away in a few days to a week.
To me it  was a miracle drug.

:) Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dear All,

I had posted over a week from Florence, IT or so ago when my 14 year old
beloved, Kitty, had a seizure of some sort and lost use of her hind legs adn was
soon thereafter diagnosed with a fairly severe case of HCM.

After a traumatic 5 day stay at the clinic, I brought her home a week ago and
have been at her side around the clock. Last Friday, I brought her in to the
clinic again for a 2nd echography of her heart ( at the suggestion of the
leading vet cardioliogist in IT) and her echo was a bit better although I am not
100% sure of what the details were due to language issues.

On Friday this other cardiologist ( a 3rd one who did the 2nd echo) recommended
reduction of her medication and told me to watch her very carefully over the
next few days to see how she does on the new doses of meds. She was sleeping a
lot and eating,drinking on her own and as of today seems a bit cheerier and more
playful and awake.

She is now on the following and her pilling times are 9am 4p and 9p:

9a - Ace Inhibotor Vasotop (1/2 pill) and Diuren ( Lasix) - 1/4 pill

4p - Atenolol (1/10th a pill) and Plaviz ( 1/4 pill)

9p - Vasotop  ( 1/2 pill) and Atenelolo (1/10th pill)

Pill time remains traumatic and there are no pill pockets available here at pet
stores.  She is urinating and defocating although I did find some blood (
mucusy) on her stool yesterday but the vet said it could be normal from
straining. Her breathing is normal and her appetite is increasing although small
meals many times a day.

I am afraid to leave the house ( I live alone). Do you think it's ok given her
improvements to leave for a few hours to do errands? Should I be watching for
any other signs that she could have another attack/seizure again? Do you know if
she will need to keep up with all of these meds forever or will they be tapered
off?

I notice that she is perkier in the morning and in the afternoon and evening
when I give her the atenolol she sleeps a lot more.Side effect of atenelol? I
think she was definitely getting too much at the vet and when she came home as
she was completely out of it.

Currently, I am not working and am now afraid to find a job ( if you can believe
it) for fear of not being here for her. It is possible for kitties to be
maintained and ok after a diagnosis like this? I am so afraid if I leave her
something will happen. Now finally getting some sleep myself but only as of a
few nights ago. I will do whatever I an for my sweet girl no matter what but
just hoping for some further peace of mind understanding that it's a terrible
disease and you don't know what can happen from one day to the next.

Thank you all for your support and any insight you can provide.

With much appreciation,
Kitty and Marina

never had any problem with pimobendan, and my cat  3.5 years old takes it since
being 3 months old. She has VSD, tricospide and pulmonary artery hypertension.

To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
From: epsteindaniela@...
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 08:53:36 +0000
Subject: [FH] Pimobendan


























       Hi everybody!

I am new to this group.

My cat Kaiser, 16 and 5 month has been diagnosed with CRD about two years ago.

I gave him subQ fluids which helped a lot but lately he got mild cardiomyopathie
and mild pericardial effusion, due to the treatment with Luis, I guess.



The cardiologist prescribed pimobendan, at about 0.17/kg 2x daily

I was very reluctant to give it to him because of possible side effects and
sudden death I had read about, but after one month of trying homeopathic
medications I decided to give him pimobendan .



He's heart works better, but he is sleeping ALL day!

He eats, purrs, and sleeps.



Has anybody experienced similar behavior?

Does it get better with the time?

I don't know if to continue or stop the medication..



Thanks for your help,

                           Daniela & Kaiser


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Boo has been taking it 2x/day for a year now... I was never told to limit food
before or after.  It's interesting when things like this come up because you do
wonder when they are on a cocktail of meds what truly is making the difference. 
If the pimobendan is not being absorbed fully... how much is... or is this drug
really not the one helping her?

I do know Boo has done well on her med cocktail and so I do not plan to change
anything, but I will inquire with her cardiologist why I was not told about
this.  I double-checked her prescription and the instructions on the med itself
and there is no mention of limiting food.


Laurie



________________________________
  From: kaisercrd <epsteindaniela@...>
To: Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...>
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 4:00 AM
Subject: [FH] Re: HCM - Grazer Vomiting after Long Gaps Without Food.


Dear Laurie,

Pimobendan has to be given every 12 hours one hour before meal.
Food seriously reduces the absorption of the medication.
I used to leave food all day long for my cat Kaiser, but now I take it away,give
him the medication and feed only 1 hour later.
I just leave water

--- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Laurie Stead <kittykatwhiskas@...> wrote:
>
> Same here... I was never told to "gap" the pimobendan with Boo.  She takes her
pills and usually proceeds to eat right after.  ??
>
> Laurie

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Our old man, 19 year old Gump, didn't look right when we got home yesterday.  He
was hunched on the couch dazed and weak.  He should have been famished by that
time, but didn't eat.  His breathing speed was normal, but somewhat shallow.

I scooped him up and brought him to lay on the bed with us.  I gave him an
additional 1/4 Lasix tablet (he gets 1/2 a day normally) and an additional 1/8
of a benazipril pill (normally a 1/4 a day).  He sat in somewhat of a meatloaf
position for awhile and eventually curled into a ball and slept.  We don't rush
him to the emergency room unless he is in distress, or not visibly improving. 
About an hour later, he was his old self and demanding dinner.

Last night he slept with us, which he only does when he is feeling out of sorts.
He awoke me with his usual tap-dancing for his breakfast.

Don't know if I should worry, or just accept this a part of getting older and
living with CRF, HCM, and hypo-thyroid.

Carol and Gump

Hi Carol,

I am glad Gump is doing better but I would take it as a sign that you may need
to change his meds/doses.  As the disease progresses, changes in meds are
normal. When is the last time an ultrasound was done? 


Laurie



________________________________
  From: keycmv <keycmv@...>
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 12:04 PM
Subject: [FH] Gump episode - not sure of source


 
Our old man, 19 year old Gump, didn't look right when we got home yesterday.  He
was hunched on the couch dazed and weak.  He should have been famished by that
time, but didn't eat.  His breathing speed was normal, but somewhat shallow.

I scooped him up and brought him to lay on the bed with us.  I gave him an
additional 1/4 Lasix tablet (he gets 1/2 a day normally) and an additional 1/8
of a benazipril pill (normally a 1/4 a day).  He sat in somewhat of a meatloaf
position for awhile and eventually curled into a ball and slept.  We don't rush
him to the emergency room unless he is in distress, or not visibly improving. 
About an hour later, he was his old self and demanding dinner.

Last night he slept with us, which he only does when he is feeling out of sorts.
He awoke me with his usual tap-dancing for his breakfast.

Don't know if I should worry, or just accept this a part of getting older and
living with CRF, HCM, and hypo-thyroid.

Carol and Gump




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Carol

If he is back to normal this weekend, I'd say he was feeling sickly or had
a tummy pain last night. Mine have done that and been back to normal the
next  day. I`d only worry if it continued.

:) Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi --- Atenolol does not contain any sedative, but some kitties on this list
have reacted with tiredness when they first started taking it.  It should go
away over time as Kitty adjusts to the med.  It sounds like you're doing
everything you can do, you're taking very good care of her.  You cannot watch
her every second.  You have to sleep, and of course go out to buy cat food, etc.
All you can do is what you can do.  But I would certainly make more shorter
trips rather than 1 long one.

I make very good money working from home on the internet -- I can help you do
that too if you don't want to go out to work for 8-9 hours at a time.  I'd be
afraid to leave my kitties for such a long time.  Working from home is the
perfect solution.  Let me know if you'd like some information about that.

take care -- Michelle & Tigger Too in Toronto

   ----- Original Message -----
   From: marina
   To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2013 6:39 AM
   Subject: [FH] Follow up on Kitty with HCM, home from the vet clinic, Q's re
home care and meds



   Dear All,

   I had posted over a week from Florence, IT or so ago when my 14 year old
beloved, Kitty, had a seizure of some sort and lost use of her hind legs adn was
soon thereafter diagnosed with a fairly severe case of HCM.

   After a traumatic 5 day stay at the clinic, I brought her home a week ago and
have been at her side around the clock. Last Friday, I brought her in to the
clinic again for a 2nd echography of her heart ( at the suggestion of the
leading vet cardioliogist in IT) and her echo was a bit better although I am not
100% sure of what the details were due to language issues.

   On Friday this other cardiologist ( a 3rd one who did the 2nd echo)
recommended reduction of her medication and told me to watch her very carefully
over the next few days to see how she does on the new doses of meds. She was
sleeping a lot and eating,drinking on her own and as of today seems a bit
cheerier and more playful and awake.

   She is now on the following and her pilling times are 9am 4p and 9p:

   9a - Ace Inhibotor Vasotop (1/2 pill) and Diuren ( Lasix) - 1/4 pill

   4p - Atenolol (1/10th a pill) and Plaviz ( 1/4 pill)

   9p - Vasotop ( 1/2 pill) and Atenelolo (1/10th pill)

   Pill time remains traumatic and there are no pill pockets available here at
pet stores. She is urinating and defocating although I did find some blood (
mucusy) on her stool yesterday but the vet said it could be normal from
straining. Her breathing is normal and her appetite is increasing although small
meals many times a day.

   I am afraid to leave the house ( I live alone). Do you think it's ok given her
improvements to leave for a few hours to do errands? Should I be watching for
any other signs that she could have another attack/seizure again? Do you know if
she will need to keep up with all of these meds forever or will they be tapered
off?

   I notice that she is perkier in the morning and in the afternoon and evening
when I give her the atenolol she sleeps a lot more.Side effect of atenelol? I
think she was definitely getting too much at the vet and when she came home as
she was completely out of it.

   Currently, I am not working and am now afraid to find a job ( if you can
believe it) for fear of not being here for her. It is possible for kitties to be
maintained and ok after a diagnosis like this? I am so afraid if I leave her
something will happen. Now finally getting some sleep myself but only as of a
few nights ago. I will do whatever I an for my sweet girl no matter what but
just hoping for some further peace of mind understanding that it's a terrible
disease and you don't know what can happen from one day to the next.

   Thank you all for your support and any insight you can provide.

   With much appreciation,
   Kitty and Marina





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

He definitely looked a bit queasy.  It was the general confusion and the limp
rag state when I picked him up that freaked me out a bit.  He normally throws
his arms over my shoulders and gently tightens his claws on my back.  He just
hung there.

But as I said, back to normal after an hour or so.  Spry and feisty.

Carol

Hello everyone! I wish we were meeting under better circumstances.

My 5 year old bengal was just diagnosed with mild hcm. We are in san francisco.
Unfortunately our regular vet sold their practice last year so we are in between
regular vets. The emergency hospital we went to initially just started up an
internal speciality practice. It's been a bit of a whirlwind and we are just now
trying to get our footing for how to best handle this. The internist we're
seeing now seems ok. We didn't see the cardiologist directly though. I guess
when they did the scans and stuff they were sent over to him for review.

The internists are all new to the area, and of course all the yelp reviews are
full of horror stories. I know that you have to take reviews with a grain of
salt but it's difficult to ignore a lot of them.

Now that I'm transitioning my thinking for a late night emergency to an ongoing
care, I want to make sure we get setup with great vets!

Questions:
1) Anyone have a vet they love in San Francisco or general area?
2) We are thinking of getting a second opinion from a cardiologist, mostly so we
can speak directly with the specialist and also just to make sure we're on the
right track. There are two that have come up in my research - Dr. Lori Siemens
in Sacramento area. She's well known amongst breeders and has done many, many
scans. Dr. Kristin MacDonald in Sonoma/Rohnert Park. She is well credentialed
and has done a lot of research work regarding feline heart conditions.

I've never really dealt with a serious health concern feline or human and this
is pretty overwhelming not only emotionally but also financially.

thanks in advance for any words of wisdom. I did do some searching through old
posts but couldn't find any san francisco vet recommendations.

Hello

I am sorry your Bengal is poorly. Is kitty a boy and girl and what is their
  name? Mild HCM can be treated with atenolol, a beta blocker, but it really
needs  a cardiologist to read the scans. Would it be possible to contact
the  cardiologist and have the scans sent over and your kitty taken into their
care.

Don't read the horror stories, there are many positive ones too. My Maxi,
diagnosed mild HCM aged 12 weeks has not progressed at all in 6 years on
atenolol. Trixi, serious HCM as a kitten, has survived 6 years despite a few
months to live prognosis. Its far easier to treat a kitty in mild HCM than
heart  failure.

Time to learn breath counts. Wait until kitty is asleep, not dreamy. Count
over 15 secs and times by 4. Find what is normal and recognise the pattern.
Then  you can notice quickly if his rate starts to increase or breathing
changes. Over  30 is concern, over 40 emergency. But most important is a
change from what is  normal.

I give Coenzyme Q 30mg to all my heart cats and all are doing very well.
Vetriscience cardiostrength is a good option in the States. But once you
start  CoQ you can't stop suddenly. Mine have taken it 6 years.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

May has mild chf, and fairly advanced crf.  She's on 4.1mg atenolol 2x/dy. 
Monday night had a fainting spell, suddenly sat up from dozing on my chest, eyes
rolled back in her head, she fell over sideways.  Ate alot before and soon
after.

Last night it happened 6-7 times more head wobbling, and some eating.  We went
to emergency where they found nothing, bp 116.

Has anyone had side effects in their cats from atenolol?  May weights 4.5kg
<10lbs.

It's a bit pre mature to ask here, as it could be a thyroid issue, or many other
things.  We'll get blood results tonight and have requested our vet to get the
echo dr. to come to echo her.  SO more info is on it's way.  But I am just
wondering about atenolol.

Thank you.

-Lee and May

Hi Lee,
 
Fuzz did this when he was hospitalized upon his HCM diagnosis. The Dr told me
the techs saw him faint twice, but both times before the Dr was able to get
there, he was out of it. I haven't seen him do it at home since he was put on
meds.
 
Dana & Fuzz

--- On Wed, 2/20/13, r schu <rschu92@...> wrote:


From: r schu <rschu92@...>
Subject: [FH] May - fainting spells
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, February 20, 2013, 9:50 AM



 



May has mild chf, and fairly advanced crf. She's on 4.1mg atenolol 2x/dy. Monday
night had a fainting spell, suddenly sat up from dozing on my chest, eyes rolled
back in her head, she fell over sideways. Ate alot before and soon after.

Last night it happened 6-7 times more head wobbling, and some eating. We went to
emergency where they found nothing, bp 116.

Has anyone had side effects in their cats from atenolol? May weights 4.5kg
<10lbs.

It's a bit pre mature to ask here, as it could be a thyroid issue, or many other
things. We'll get blood results tonight and have requested our vet to get the
echo dr. to come to echo her. SO more info is on it's way. But I am just
wondering about atenolol.

Thank you.

-Lee and May








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Lee

Is it possible she is having mini strokes? When Arnie had his the only sign
  was slow head movements and wide pupils. I have had no issues with
atenolol in 4  cats at all. I`d be concerned if it were strokes and consider
something for  blood clots like plavix or nattokinase. Unfortunatley some are
caused by little  brain bleeds so nattokinase wouldn't be good for that as it
dissolves  clots.

I`d definitely call the cardiologist for advice.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there,

We're also in San Francisco and relatively new to all this heart stuff. Our Lumi
(7 years) threw a clot in November and was found to be in an advanced stage of
heart disease. It's all been, as you point out, emotionally and financially
draining.

I've had mixed feelings about our service at SFVS on Alabama Street. Lumi is
blind and had a wonderful eye doctor there as a kitten. When we needed a
cardiologist, we went back and have been very happy with Dr Justin Williams.
He's knowledgeable, caring, and willing to talk at length with me about all my
questions. Lumi has not tolerated the vet visits well and Dr Williams has been
great about changing his approach so we do more at home. We've also been
impressed with how SFVS communicates with our primary vet (Animal Farm).

We did have an emergency with Lumi, related to his heart condition, and I cannot
say I have the same warm feelings about that department. Financially, it was a
nightmare; their procedures around payment were not appreciated. I had specific
complaints and they were dealt with kindly, but the experience did taint my
opinion of the larger hospital.

We threatened to take our business elsewhere, but decided to stay for Dr
Williams. (If there's another emergency, we'll go to All Animals.) I would
recommend him and his staff without hesitation.

Hope that helps!
Lisa and Lumi

Dr. Kristin MacDonald (at the Animal Care Center in Rohnert Park, California)
gets a big "thumbs up" from me.  She has a PHD on top of a specialty in
cardiology and is well published in her research on HCM in Maine Coons.  The
Animal Care Center has top of the line equipment for x-rays and echos plus a
well rounded staff of other veterinarians in various other specialties. 
Kristin's husband, Dr. Lavely, is also a veterinarian with a specialty in
Neurology and sees our other cat, Hamlet, once a year for an examination related
to his epilepsy.

Dr. MacDonald has a couple of small children and currently works Mondays through
Wednesdays so you will need to call ahead for an appointment.  We have been
working with her for well over a year and go in routinely for echos, x-rays,
blood tests, etc.  My Maine Coon cat, Moe, would not be alive today if we had
not made the move from our regular veterinarian to working with Kristin to try
to stay on top of this progressive disease.  Under her guidance, we were able to
get Moe on a drug protocol that works well for him.  Although his HCM is pretty
severe, he is happy, perky, and has a high quality of life which makes all the
minor ups and downs along the way worthwhile.  Definitely find a good
cardiologist and work with them.  Most normal veterinarians just aren't up on
the latest research and drug protocols necessary to keep on top of HCM.  The
cardiologists see many cats with varying degrees of severity and side
complications come through their doors.  Every cat is different but they know
what works best based on their past cases.  Dr. Kristin is highly flexible and
will give you the straight scoop on your cat's prognosis plus fight like hell to
slow the progression of the disease.

All the Best.  Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions.

Mary and Moe

Hi everyone,

I tried to find this searching the archives but couldn't find a direct path. 
Where and what type of stethoscope should I get to listen to May's heart?

Also, has anyone here had any heart issues with using ondansetron for nausea? 
Tanya's crf site says this:
--------------------------------------------
Ondansetron Interactions and Side Effects

...include constipation, low blood pressure and sleepiness. Humans have reported
bad headaches.

Ondansetron may also cause heart arrhythmias. In September 2011 The US Food &
Drug Administration reported that "Ondansetron may increase the risk of
developing abnormal changes in the electrical activity of the heart, which can
result in a potentially fatal abnormal heart rhythm."
-------------------------------------------

It's looking less and less like we're getting an echo scheduled for today and
I'm scared for what might happen tonight with May.  One fainting spell Monday
night, 7 last night, so what is in store for tonight?  E.R. said get an echo,
continue with all meds.  But said I could stop ondansetron if I wanted, so I
have.  That is the only change tonight, so I'm hoping, desperately hoping she
won't have any episodes tonight, and worse yet, that the trend continues. 
'potentially fatal' really scares me.

Thank you if anyone has info to share.

-Lee and Miss May

Hi

I got a stethoscope from Ebay, a starter medical student one. It wasn't
expensive. It's useful to listening to breathing and the chest.

I`ve never used ondansetron.

Lyn:)

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have been giving my cat, Harley, 5mg. aspirin every 72 hours but I have just
read that long term use of aspirin is not good for cats.  I would like to give
him nattokinase instead but don't know where to get it and also how much to
give.  Harley is hard to give medications to.  How is nattokinase given?

Harley has the beginning stages of HCM and the cardiologist didn't prescribe any
medications for him at this time but I suggested the aspirin because one time he
lost control of his back legs for about 5 minutes.  By the time I got him to the
vet he was all right.  I don't know if the problem was caused by HCM or
pancreatitis.  I do think nattokinase would be safer for him.

Jean

Hello All,


Sheba had another episode of vomiting less than 30 minutes after I gave her, her
Plavix.     I was in the bedroom lion cutting my other persian, and I thought I
heard something in the kitchen where Sheba was having her dinner.    A few
minutes later I saw her in the living room vomiting.


Not as much vomit as last time, but still too much of a coincidence.   Both
episodes occurred 15-30 minutes after giving her, her plavix.


When I went to her food bowl, it looked like there was white foam near the bowl.
(the bowl frame in white too)    I cleaned her face and changed her bib (yes,
bib.    Flat faced MESSY himalayan) and gave her some more food which she
gobbled down.


Someone suggested I give her the Plavix in the morning instead of the evening?
How does this help reduce vomiting?   Also, she WILL eat her plavix crushed into
her wet food?   Should I try that?   Will that reduce the foaming/vomiting?


Sheba also has feline asthma so I cannot pill her or syringe liquids into her,
it can trigger an asthma attack.   Pill pockets or mixed in food is the way to
go with her.


Thank you,
Jordan and Sheba


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Plavix can cause gastro upsets.  The foaming possibly indicates that she finds
it to be bitter. Are you coating it with something before you give it? Also,
check the dose.  My cat receives 1/4 tab of a 75 mg tab once a day. I coat the
cut 1/4 in wet food then dose it.  If you use a pill pocket, it's possible that
the pill still needs to be coated for her.  My cat receives it in the a.m.  I
don't know if it matters when the cat receives it. I would try coating it in wet
food and see if that makes a difference. Good luck!



>________________________________
> From: Jordan <thegapgal@...>
>To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 9:51 PM
>Subject: [FH] 2nd episode of vomiting / immediately after Plavix
>
>
> 
>Hello All,
>
>Sheba had another episode of vomiting less than 30 minutes after I gave her,
her Plavix.     I was in the bedroom lion cutting my other persian, and I
thought I heard something in the kitchen where Sheba was having her dinner.    A
few minutes later I saw her in the living room vomiting.
>
>Not as much vomit as last time, but still too much of a coincidence.   Both
episodes occurred 15-30 minutes after giving her, her plavix.
>
>When I went to her food bowl, it looked like there was white foam near the
bowl.   (the bowl frame in white too)    I cleaned her face and changed her bib
(yes, bib.    Flat faced MESSY himalayan) and gave her some more food which she
gobbled down.
>
>Someone suggested I give her the Plavix in the morning instead of the evening?
How does this help reduce vomiting?   Also, she WILL eat her plavix crushed into
her wet food?   Should I try that?   Will that reduce the foaming/vomiting?
>
>Sheba also has feline asthma so I cannot pill her or syringe liquids into her,
it can trigger an asthma attack.   Pill pockets or mixed in food is the way to
go with her.
>
>Thank you,
>Jordan and Sheba
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

@elfinmyst great to hear about Trixie! Our guy is named Henry and he's a boy
(obviously).

thank you everyone. I can't tell you how much I appreciate both your posts to
the group and emails to me personally. Lots of great insights and good
recommendations.

I've got an appointment with Dr. MacDonald up in Sonoma for Tuesday - feeling
much more confident in that decision and expense.

Hi Jordan

I would try it in the food, some medications upset on an empty stomach. But
  ultimately if it is making her sick you may need to switch to an
alternative  medication like aspirin or nattokinase.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Jean

If you want to swap I would talk to the cardiologist, he may suggest plavix
  which seems a safer long term drug. But if you want nattokinase, I
recommend  Doctor's Best from Ebay or a health store. I give one pill a day, its
a
small  capsule. You must make sure the brand you have has vitamin K removed
like  Doctors Best does.

Lyn

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings to the lovely, hopeful cat-parents in this group, and thanks for the
information so generously shared.  My fur-baby Scruffy is 17 and crashed last
Monday, rushed to the emergency clinic in respiratory distress.  He has been
diagnosed with DCM (dialated cardiomyopathy) complicated by a large (2cm x
1.5cm) clot in his left ventricle.  They stabilized him by draining 150 ml of
fluid from his chest and sent him home on furosemide, benazepril HCL and
clopidrogel bisulfate.  Once he recoverd from the stress of the clinic visit, he
has had a pretty good week -happy, interactive and eating well.  I don't think
that the drugs are working as well as hoped though, as his resting respiration
rate has been gradually creeping up (best day was 24 breaths per minute with 93%
O2 saturation, today he is at 31 bpw with unknown saturation).

Scruffy was likely abused before he decided to adopt us, and being handled by
strangers is stressful for him in the extreme.  I am wrestling with the question
of whether to try another thoracticentises when his breathing gets into the
distressed range again (looking like this will happen about 2 weeks from the
first one at his current rate of deterioration) or to gently let him go while he
is still comfortable and content at home.  I don't want to rob him of any
quality time he may have, but likewise I don't want to drag things out for him
through selfishness or ignorance.  We do have an emergency plan in place should
he throw a clot or suddenly go into distress, with buprenorphine on hand to ease
his pain and stress in a crisis until we can get to help.

I have access to a 4.5 l/m oxygen concentrator and although Mr. Scruff is not
happy in a cage I was thinking of setting up an oxygen tent at for short-term
periods of respite or emergencies.  Does anyone have experience regarding
whether this will help?

I am sorry to be "meeting" you under these circumstances, and to be asking for
help instead of providing it, but any words of advice, wisdom or comfort would
be sincerely appreciated.  Sadly and with thans, "Scruffy's Mom"

Marcid:
I'm glad you have a plan in case of an emergency! But you should know that it
may take some time to work out what meds and what doses are best for Scruffy. I
wouldn't be quick to "gently let him go", especially since it appears he's not
suffering in any way. "Happy, interactive and eating well" is what we all wish
for our furkids!

Is Scruffy under the care of a cardiologist?

Jo

__________________________________________________




-----Original Message-----
From: marcid.weston <marcid.weston@...>
To: feline-heart <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Feb 21, 2013 11:50 am
Subject: [FH] New To Group with a Sweet DCM Boy...




Greetings to the lovely, hopeful cat-parents in this group, and thanks for the
information so generously shared. My fur-baby Scruffy is 17 and crashed last
Monday, rushed to the emergency clinic in respiratory distress. He has been
diagnosed with DCM (dialated cardiomyopathy) complicated by a large (2cm x
1.5cm) clot in his left ventricle. They stabilized him by draining 150 ml of
fluid from his chest and sent him home on furosemide, benazepril HCL and
clopidrogel bisulfate. Once he recoverd from the stress of the clinic visit, he
has had a pretty good week -happy, interactive and eating well. I don't think
that the drugs are working as well as hoped though, as his resting respiration
rate has been gradually creeping up (best day was 24 breaths per minute with 93%
O2 saturation, today he is at 31 bpw with unknown saturation).

Scruffy was likely abused before he decided to adopt us, and being handled by
strangers is stressful for him in the extreme. I am wrestling with the question
of whether to try another thoracticentises when his breathing gets into the
distressed range again (looking like this will happen about 2 weeks from the
first one at his current rate of deterioration) or to gently let him go while he
is still comfortable and content at home. I don't want to rob him of any quality
time he may have, but likewise I don't want to drag things out for him through
selfishness or ignorance. We do have an emergency plan in place should he throw
a clot or suddenly go into distress, with buprenorphine on hand to ease his pain
and stress in a crisis until we can get to help.

I have access to a 4.5 l/m oxygen concentrator and although Mr. Scruff is not
happy in a cage I was thinking of setting up an oxygen tent at for short-term
periods of respite or emergencies. Does anyone have experience regarding whether
this will help?

I am sorry to be "meeting" you under these circumstances, and to be asking for
help instead of providing it, but any words of advice, wisdom or comfort would
be sincerely appreciated. Sadly and with thans, "Scruffy's Mom"







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry to hear about Scruffy's dx but know that he can have a good quality of
life.  He just needs to be stabilized.  What dose of furosemide is he on? 
Usually when the breathing rate is increasing it is indicative of fluid building
up... you want to combat that before it becomes an emergency.  Perhaps the dose
of furosemide is not enough?

My Boo was dx with DCM (very rare in cats... you are the first I have heard of
in awhile in this group!) back in Oct 2011 after also suffering CHF.  After
days in oxygen she survived and stabilized with the right meds.  I think your
priority needs to be getting the correct diuretic dose and I would also inquire
as to starting him on vetmedin. 

Don't give up, your boy is obviously a fighter!!

Laurie





________________________________
  From: marcid.weston <marcid.weston@...>
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2013 11:50 AM
Subject: [FH] New To Group with a Sweet DCM Boy...


 
Greetings to the lovely, hopeful cat-parents in this group, and thanks for the
information so generously shared.  My fur-baby Scruffy is 17 and crashed last
Monday, rushed to the emergency clinic in respiratory distress.  He has been
diagnosed with DCM (dialated cardiomyopathy) complicated by a large (2cm x
1.5cm) clot in his left ventricle.  They stabilized him by draining 150 ml of
fluid from his chest and sent him home on furosemide, benazepril HCL and
clopidrogel bisulfate.  Once he recoverd from the stress of the clinic visit, he
has had a pretty good week -happy, interactive and eating well.  I don't think
that the drugs are working as well as hoped though, as his resting respiration
rate has been gradually creeping up (best day was 24 breaths per minute with 93%
O2 saturation, today he is at 31 bpw with unknown saturation).

Scruffy was likely abused before he decided to adopt us, and being handled by
strangers is stressful for him in the extreme.  I am wrestling with the question
of whether to try another thoracticentises when his breathing gets into the
distressed range again (looking like this will happen about 2 weeks from the
first one at his current rate of deterioration) or to gently let him go while he
is still comfortable and content at home.  I don't want to rob him of any
quality time he may have, but likewise I don't want to drag things out for him
through selfishness or ignorance.  We do have an emergency plan in place should
he throw a clot or suddenly go into distress, with buprenorphine on hand to ease
his pain and stress in a crisis until we can get to help.

I have access to a 4.5 l/m oxygen concentrator and although Mr. Scruff is not
happy in a cage I was thinking of setting up an oxygen tent at for short-term
periods of respite or emergencies.  Does anyone have experience regarding
whether this will help?

I am sorry to be "meeting" you under these circumstances, and to be asking for
help instead of providing it, but any words of advice, wisdom or comfort would
be sincerely appreciated.  Sadly and with thans, "Scruffy's Mom"




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi

I agree with the others, it's a matter of controlling the fluid with
diuretics. He may need a greater dose or a more frequent dose. If his breathing
is creeping up he needs more diuretic. The vet can also add a second
diuretic if  needed called spironolactone.

I would advise vetmedin too. It's been a wonder for my cats.

I`m sure you know but DCM can be caused by taurine deficiency. If he is on
a normal complete catfood this shouldn't be an issue but I would consider
adding  Cardiostrength (taurine, carnitine and CoQ) which is a supplement
suitable for  cats.

Lyn:)

_www.myfurkids.co.uk_ (http://www.myfurkids.co.uk/)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]