Hi Everyone,
I have been trying to find a page on the website that would give
us the normals measurements for the size of a cats heart and
what they would mean when they are not normal.
Well I have found "part" a link to the measurements and thought
I would pass it along.
Normal Feline Echocardiographic Values;
http://www.cvm.tamu.edu/cardiology/normals/feline.html
Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
did you see a cardiologist? i saw an internal meds spec, a gp vet and a
cardio vet when pum was diagnosed...the cardiovet had alot of focus on
making the heart "right" but the inmed doc said that we had to consider the
whole body issue: enalapril can adversely affect kidney functions and like
in humans, blood work on kidney functions comes back looking ok/normal until
the kidneys have degenerated a significant amt and already have
damage....diltiazem and enalapril given together seem too much for my way of
thinking.....pum was diagnossed with high bp at about age 2 and took norvasc
for a long time just to lower the bp and we always hoped that the bp would
always be the only problem and of course that was wishful thinking esp on my
part bec it was always likely that the problem would evolve into hcm...the
cardiovet wjanted to immediately treat it as a heart problem bec he did have
a heart murmur....however, i decided to take the more conservative
approach...my gp vet recommended it and since he was the father of one of my
staff members i decided to trust his hunches...also he was elderly and had
alot of experience....so i went with the internal meds doc
recommendation...i have never regretted it.....once he evolved to hcm about
5-6 yrs later he was put on atenolol by the internal meds vet and we went
back tot he cardiovet who added the enalapril eventaully but it did cause
kidney problems and it had to be discontinued...it's a balancing act....you
have to constantly check the blood work, the ultrasounds, trying to do the
best thing at the right time.....my internal meds vet has taken a very
conservative approach vs. the cardiovet who took more ddrastic action....now
the heart has one year later not deteriorated any further and it's probably
due to the time he took the enalapril and he's now on a special diet and
he's ok so far....but if it were me, i'd get a second opinion and ask alot
of questions to my current vet....esp knowing theat the meds will adversely
impact his kidneys eventually....il'm not too good on the numbers you listed
below but alot of other people here know alot more about the #s......i think
that i have probably upset you but i think it's better to ask these
questions now rather than wait to go thru what i had to experience with
pumpkin when he was on the enalapril and the atenolol.....does this make any
sense? also, i'm sure that many cats have perhaps a better tolerance for the
meds than pum did........i hope what i have said has done more to help than
confuse and cause additional worry....lord knows sthat seems to be what i do
best of all when it comes to pum.....pum was given a very short life
expectancy and now, alm ost 10 he continues to defy all the odds and be the
longest survivor of this website.....i attribute it to 1. allthe advice and
info i got at this website and all the great input i've had from everyone
over the years...everything i've learned...all the suppport we both got when
we both needed it so desperately and i know that time will come again...2.
the very early detection/intervention and equally conservative approach that
the internal meds vet took in treating pum....and his knowledge and
resources...i can't say enough good things about him and his operation....3.
lots of love....we do love pum to pieces and just dote on him
constantly....i hope that what i have said has helped ....
i hope that others will give input here bec i feel pretty ignorant about the
#s you listed.....other thoughts from everyone oout there????
linda
-----Original Message-----
From: gussielou49 [mailto:sschoff@...]
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:24 PM
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
Gus is 3 1/2 and since last year the vet has seen "marked
enlargement" of the left aorta and thickening of L ventricular wall.
His heart murmur is a 2+. Gus doesn't show obvious signs of HCM
[other than what the ultrasounds show]. He sometimes [after chasing
his sister] will stop, lie down and breath deeply in/out once. Why
do the meds. seem drastic? The vet said that this was the best thing
to do for Gus right now. I don't know a lot since this is the first
time w/ HCM for us. I'm just learning. I worry about Gus every
day. I want to do the best thing I can for him. Thanks for any
info. you have. Steph
--- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
> Pum's bp is 130 and the vet says thast good....he's on
atenolol....giving
> both the enalapril and the diltiazem sounds pretty drastic to
me....have
> they given you a reason why he's on both??? and how severe is his
hcm?
>
> linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cynthia Rausch [mailto:crosseye@t...]
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:10 PM
> To: feline-heart@y...
> Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
>
>
> Steph Schoff wrote:
> What is the average resting heart rate for a cat [w/ HCM]? My cat
was
> recently diagnosed w/ HCM and is on Enalapril & Diltiazem 1x day
and 1
> children's aspirin every 3 days. Before starting medication his
rate was
> around 132 bmp and now (2 weeks later) it's around 88-90. Called
> emergency vet yesterday and they said that was OK. I will call my
vet
> tomorrow but just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas. Thanks!
> Steph & Gus the cat.
>
>
> Hi Steph,
>
> I think these are the ranges of normal from resting to an active,
> excited cat.
>
> source: The Merck Manual says 120 -140 bpm for cats
>
> source: The Veterinary Drug Handbook says
>
> Young cats 130-140
> Old cats 100-120
>
> source: The Cornell Book of Cats pg. 206
>
> A cat's heart normally beats from 120 to 240 times per minute.
> Strenuous exercise, stress, excitement, or fever will accelerate the
> number of times the heart contracts to keep up with the body's
demand
> for oxygenated blood. *Resting* heart rates should be much lower
than 240.
>
>
> There was not mention for Cats with heart problems, I assume they
> should be the same.
>
> Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
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Laurel, my thoughts are with you and your family. I know your pain my dear
friend.
MJ & sweet angel Thena & 6
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened"
Anatole France
----- Original Message -----
From: "laurelmmillersherman" <laurelmiller@...>
To: <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 10:02 AM
Subject: [FH] Selavy is my angel now...
> Friends,
> We've just returned from letting our sweet Selavy go.
>
> She's taught and learned so much about living and loving. She'll
> forever be in our hearts.
>
> Thank you to the special people in this group who have been such a
> support to me for the past 3 1/2 months. I have valued your wisdom,
> care and prayers more than I can say.
>
> Best of luck to you and your special kitties. I'll be watching out
> for you.
>
> Love,
> Laurel, Mitch, Zoe, Gwei and angel Selavy
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
I'm sorry if you cannot recieve attachments.
MJ & sweet angel Thena & 6
"Until one has loved an animal, a part of one's soul remains unawakened"
Anatole France
----- Original Message -----
From: Domenic Vavala
To: MJ
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 1:39 PM
Subject: Fw: Just for you
Hi MJ, you're the first person i thought of when i received this email, you
know, the cat thing and all.
Ciao for now Sis,
Love Domenic
----- Original Message -----
From: vrichardson1288@...
To: cassidy@... ; kdowney@... ; roberts.marc@... ;
idowney@... ; janmcnair99@... ; blair_richardson@...
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 7:25 AM
Subject: Fw: Just for you
----- Original Message -----
From: Liz Spooner
To: Vanessa Richardson ; Shari Comerford ; Mellema545@... ; Mary Tracy ;
Janet Retty
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 4:58 PM
Subject: FW: Just for you
-----Original Message-----
From: JulesSimon@... [mailto:JulesSimon@...]
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 3:55 PM
To: cracknl@...
Subject: Just for you
Happy belated Valentine's Day!
Julie
xoxoxo
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Chelsea had bloodwork done Thur. and her vet called to say it was pretty good
except for elevated amylase 2424 (300-2000) and a high band count -13%. This
is after she's taken Clavamox for 6 days (taken for gum inflammation). Since
Chelsea's appetite has been poorer lately, she was concerned she might
possibly have pancreatitis. She told me I should give her Hill's ID for now
and some sub-Q fluids. My vet didn't say anything about fasting her, but
just in case it might help, I've only given her food (mostly assist feedings)
between 9AM and 9PM, to allow the pancreas to rest 12 hrs. She seemed fairly
normal (though her appetite was still poor) Fri and Sat. Sun she slept a
good deal. Today she seems to have gotten worse and I see that she peed on
the pillow she was lying on. So now I'm very worried. I talked w/ my vet
and she's on call tonight for emergencies (an hr away). We just found out
there is a vet cardiologist about 4 hrs from here and I want to take her for
an ultrasound (cardiac & abdominal), but it would be very difficult to do
before next week.
I'd appreciate any information or advice regarding pancreatitis. And I'd
really like to read anyone's personal experience in treating a kitty w/ this
disease. So far I've Merck's Vet Guide, 5 Min Vet Consult and some web sites.
I'd like to know if anyone's kitty has had a hi band number (13%) with hi
amylase and what antibiotics they used.
Thanks so much!
Sandy and Chelsea
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I would start by going to
http://www.acvim.org/Kittleson/search.htm
& searching for ACVIM certified cardiologists. While I can't
comment personally on any of the cardiologists in those states, I
have found ACVIM cetification to be top notch.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steph Schoff [mailto:sschoff@...]
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:22 PM
> To: Feline-Heart
> Subject: [FH] cardiologists in New England?
>
>
> Does anyone know of any excellent cardiologists in ME,
> NH or MA?
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
-----Original Message-----
> From: Sandler, Zellene E.
> [mailto:zellene.sandler@...]
> Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:10 AM
> To: 'feline-heart@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: [FH] Interesting article re heart meds
> I'm curious what you all think of this article.
Thanks for posting this. I finally got around to reading it &
while there was a fair amount that I couldn't understand, it was
still quite helpful.
> Toward the end of this article, the author states that
> beta blockers and
> calcium channel blockers have not been shown to stop
> severe HCM from getting
> worse. (So why are we giving them?)
> http://www.vetmed.ufl.edu/sacs/notes/VEM5301.pdf
I can think of 2 reasons for their use (yes, I'm guessing):
1) While these drugs have not been shown to ftop HCM from
worsening, vets believe that they do help.
2) They improve the quality of life (i.e., the cats feel better).
> z
--
JR
Tabby (RB), Lynx (RB), Licorice, Tigger, Jet
thanks! That's a great start! =^..^=
--- In feline-heart@y..., "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@e...> wrote:
> I would start by going to
>
> http://www.acvim.org/Kittleson/search.htm
>
> & searching for ACVIM certified cardiologists. While I can't
> comment personally on any of the cardiologists in those states, I
> have found ACVIM cetification to be top notch.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steph Schoff [mailto:sschoff@e...]
> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:22 PM
> > To: Feline-Heart
> > Subject: [FH] cardiologists in New England?
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of any excellent cardiologists in ME,
> > NH or MA?
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
Hi Sandy and Chelsea,
I had to deal with pancreatitis with my girl Sabbath about a year and a half
ago. She basically quit eating, vomited, and hid in the closet. She was
on IV's for, I think, 3 days. They did a special blood test (TLI) which
was very high and very positive. She has been on a low dose of prednisone
ever since (5 mg every other day). I tried to take her off of it, but she
went back into the closet! Prednisone is not supposed to work in every case
however. I also try to feed her a lower fat, easily digestible,
natural-type food. It's a balancing act, because she is also borderline
CRF, which calls for the opposite (lower protein diet).
In contrast to dogs, elevated amylase and lipase levels in the cat do not
diagnose pancreatitis (my cat, Velcro, has had very high amylase for years,
and his pancreas is fine). They can be elevated in kitties with no pancreas
problems, but I think are almost always elevated in cats with pancreatitis.
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/pancreatitis__feline_.htmlhttp://www.sniksnak.com/cathealth/pancreatitis.html
Fortunately, Sabbath had no other conditions at the time, and pulled
through. It can be a very serious disease.
I think the usual treatment is antibiotics, Reglan for vomiting, IV fluids,
resting the digestive system, and possibly prednisone. I am trying to find
Sabbath's bloodwork from that time, but haven't located it. If I do, I will
send her values your way.
If Chelsea does indeed have pancreatitis and isn't eating well, she needs to
be at the vets as soon as possible. Is she eating anything?
Please write if you have any more questions.
Gayle
----- Original Message -----
From: <arkrabs@...>
To: <Feline-CRF-Support@yahoogroups.com>; <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 6:01 PM
Subject: [FH] non-crf/heart Pancreatitis
> Chelsea had bloodwork done Thur. and her vet called to say it was pretty
good
> except for elevated amylase 2424 (300-2000) and a high band count -13%.
This
> is after she's taken Clavamox for 6 days (taken for gum inflammation).
Since
> Chelsea's appetite has been poorer lately, she was concerned she might
> possibly have pancreatitis. She told me I should give her Hill's ID for
now
> and some sub-Q fluids. My vet didn't say anything about fasting her, but
> just in case it might help, I've only given her food (mostly assist
feedings)
> between 9AM and 9PM, to allow the pancreas to rest 12 hrs. She seemed
fairly
> normal (though her appetite was still poor) Fri and Sat. Sun she slept a
> good deal. Today she seems to have gotten worse and I see that she peed
on
> the pillow she was lying on. So now I'm very worried. I talked w/ my vet
> and she's on call tonight for emergencies (an hr away). We just found out
> there is a vet cardiologist about 4 hrs from here and I want to take her
for
> an ultrasound (cardiac & abdominal), but it would be very difficult to do
> before next week.
>
> I'd appreciate any information or advice regarding pancreatitis. And I'd
> really like to read anyone's personal experience in treating a kitty w/
this
> disease. So far I've Merck's Vet Guide, 5 Min Vet Consult and some web
sites.
> I'd like to know if anyone's kitty has had a hi band number (13%) with
hi
> amylase and what antibiotics they used.
> Thanks so much!
> Sandy and Chelsea
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
Steph -
I adore my cat's cardiologist. His name is Etienne Cote and he is at Angell
Memorial Hospital in the Jamaica Plain section of Boston (617-541-5038). He's
incredibly kind and sharp and open to all sorts of discussions. (I also use a
great compounding pharmacy, liquids, treats, or gels, if you are looking for
one.)
- Randi (and Elsa)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Steph -
I adore my cat's cardiologist. His name is Etienne Cote and he is at Angell
Memorial Hospital in the Jamaica Plain section of Boston (617-541-5038). He's
incredibly kind and sharp and open to all sorts of discussions. (I also use a
great compounding pharmacy, liquids, treats, or gels, if you are looking for
one.)
- Randi (and Elsa)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
don't forget Cornell....they are excellent and super well staffed...
linda
-----Original Message-----
From: gussielou49 [mailto:sschoff@...]
Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:28 PM
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FH] Re: cardiologists in New England?
thanks! That's a great start! =^..^=
--- In feline-heart@y..., "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jr40@e...> wrote:
> I would start by going to
>
> http://www.acvim.org/Kittleson/search.htm
>
> & searching for ACVIM certified cardiologists. While I can't
> comment personally on any of the cardiologists in those states, I
> have found ACVIM cetification to be top notch.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Steph Schoff [mailto:sschoff@e...]
> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 9:22 PM
> > To: Feline-Heart
> > Subject: [FH] cardiologists in New England?
> >
> >
> > Does anyone know of any excellent cardiologists in ME,
> > NH or MA?
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Just came back from routine, yearly exam & shots. The (new) Vet had
bad news...in BOTH my kitties (M 6yr old & F 12yr old) he detected
possible heart murmurs. He (the Vet) didn't give me much info...
only referred me to a cardiologist....30 miles away & about $400. (per
cat!) for an exam & ultrasound. They've always been pretty healthy, no
mention of heart problems in the past, eat well & show no signs of
illness now. Could this be possible...both of them developing this
condition within the year?? What causes this? Is there other ways
(besides ultrasound) to tell if they really do have this problem?
What is the treatment & prognosis? Can anyone give me some info on
this? I'm frantic, please help!
L
Everything will be OK. Both of my cats have murmurs. They were diagnosed
more than 4 years ago, and are still alive at nearly 18 years old.
Ultrasound (echocardiogram) really is the best way to diagnose whether a
problem exists and if so, how serious the problem is. The price of $400
sounds extremely high, though. Even in the expensive DC area, we pay about
$200-300 each time.
If your kitty does have a disease such as cardiomyopathy, many drugs exist
that can help the cat to live for years. The drugs include Cardizem
(diltiazem) and Atenolol.
The first diagnosis is very scary. I was convinced in early 1998 that both
my cats would die very soon. Now, in February 2002, they're still ticking.
The other night they woke my husband up because they were playing on the
dresser at midnight!
Laura
-----Original Message-----
From: l2merlot <l2merlot@...>
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com <feline-heart@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 1:17 PM
Subject: [FH] Need info on heart murmurs
>Just came back from routine, yearly exam & shots. The (new) Vet had
>bad news...in BOTH my kitties (M 6yr old & F 12yr old) he detected
>possible heart murmurs. He (the Vet) didn't give me much info...
>only referred me to a cardiologist....30 miles away & about $400. (per
>cat!) for an exam & ultrasound. They've always been pretty healthy, no
>mention of heart problems in the past, eat well & show no signs of
>illness now. Could this be possible...both of them developing this
>condition within the year?? What causes this? Is there other ways
>(besides ultrasound) to tell if they really do have this problem?
>What is the treatment & prognosis? Can anyone give me some info on
>this? I'm frantic, please help!
>L
>
>
>
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
A list of links to info on heart disease is in the "files" section of the
yahoo list page for this list. I found good info using that when Freckles
was diagnosed. Visit the sites and go to the cardiologist armed with a list
of questions -- get your money's worth!
Try not to panic - heart murmurs can be anything from nervousness to a
serious disease. Even if it's serious, lots of medication is available and
many members of this list have cats living well with heart disease.
Keep us posted,
Lynnie
most likely the epogen hasn't started working yet or she needs more of
it. Is she getting it 3x weekly? Arthur's epogen stopped working and
I'm still not sure if it's antibodies or a consistent infection. Are
they treating for an infection? High wbc can also be infection. By the
way, I saw the clarification on subq's/iv's and wanted to also say that
I don't think most vets sedate but if the vet doesn't have a mechanical
dripset that beeps when the fluid is not getting in, there is a good
chance not a whole lot is going to get in. I know because my new
wonderful vet let me take ARthur home on iv fluids (yes he is home with
a catheter-we've been doing subq's for almost 3 years) and it doesn't
drip unless his leg is straight out so I syringe it in every 1/2 hour or
so. Tonight I'm going to make a little splint so it does go in but just
be careful of that. I wonder how much fluids cats get in hospitals that
don't have the leg splinted. Anyway, subq's can be very cheap. You can
order a case of 12 for an average of about $2.00 per bag. Many vets
will try to charge you $30 or more a bag (mine used to charge me $43
when Deerface had crf before I learned you could order your own). Check
out the crf list for details. I got mine from Schueler Health Care.
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l2merlot wrote:
Just came back from routine, yearly exam & shots. The (new) Vet had
bad news...in BOTH my kitties (M 6yr old & F 12yr old) he detected
possible heart murmurs. He (the Vet) didn't give me much info...
Hi L,
Here are a few link that give helpfull information;
http://www.VetMedCenter.com/Consumer/display.asp?id=8480&dt=phttp://webmd.lycos.com/content/asset/adam_symptoms_heart_sounds
Murmurs are blowing, whooshing, or rasping sounds.
They are the result of vibrations caused by abnormal
blood flow patterns. This can happen when a valve
does not close tightly (such as with mitral
regurgitation), when there is an irregularity in the shape
of a heart chamber or one of the great vessels (such as
an aortic aneurysm), or when the blood is flowing
through a narrowed opening or a stiff valve (such as
with aortic stenosis).
A murmur does not necessarily indicate a disease or
disorder, and all heart disorders do not cause murmurs.
Murmurs are classified,("graded") depending on their
ability to be heard by the examiner. The grading is on a
scale with grade I being barely detectable. An example
of a murmur description is a grade II/VI murmur (grade 2
on a murmur scale of 1 to 6).
Also used to describe a murmur is the stage of the
heartbeat when the murmur is heard. Whether the
murmur occurs in the resting stage (diastole) or
contracting stage (systole), whether it is early or late
in the stage, or whether it occurs throughout the
heartbeat, are important clues to the cause of the
murmur. For example, a presystolic murmur is heard just
BEFORE systole and is usually caused by narrowing of
the mitral or tricuspid valve (the valves between the
atria and the ventricles).
http://health.yahoo.com/health/Diseases_and_Conditions/Disease_Feed_Data/Heart_s\
ounds/
Common causes Murmurs:
mitral regurgitation; chronic
mitral regurgitation; acute
mitral stenosis
aortic regurgitation
aortic stenosis
tricuspid stenosis
tricuspid regurgitation
pulmonic stenosis
pulmonic regurgitation
Innocent Heart Murmurs
http://www.pediheart.org/parents/tests/murmurs.htmhttp://www.hmc.psu.edu/childrens/healthinfo/h/heartmurmurs.htm
I hope this helps,
Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
Your words of support have meant so much to me and my family these
last few days. We miss our girl, Selavy, so much but your kindness
has helped me make it through these last few tough days.
I hope that noone will need this, but I have found the following
website very helpful. http://petloss.com
My most heartfelt best wishes to you and your beautiful kitties.
Love,
Laurel, Mitch, Zoe, Gwei and angel Selavy
Thank you for your input…I really appreciate it! I'm glad Pum is
doing well. Everything you said makes sense. I have been doing lots
of research on this. I have a binder full of information on HCM and
related stuff. I feel very informed but I want to make sure I am
doing the right things. I am a little confused about the medicines,
Enalapril & Diltiazem, because they seem to do the same thing [relax
the blood vessels]. I'm sure they are different but I want to know
why he needs to be on both. I know one is an ACE and the other is a
CCB but that is a little above my head. I am concerned about side
effects but also know his heart needs some help. It's a tough
situation. Gus has an appointment next weekend for blood work and I
will have many questions to ask. We live a little over an hour from
a very reputable hospital where there are vet. cardiologists, so I am
considering going down there for a second opinion even though our vet
is wonderful. I hesitate to drive w/ Gus that far because he
stresses easily in the car…his heart goes wild. We currently see a
regular vet as well as a vet that does the ultrasounds [a mobile
vet]. I'm not sure if she specializes in cardiology but she seems to
know a lot about it. I need to clarify that. Thanks again…I'm glad
I found this message board. I'll keep you posted.
Steph & Gus
--- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
> did you see a cardiologist? i saw an internal meds spec, a gp vet
and a
> cardio vet when pum was diagnosed...the cardiovet had alot of focus
on
> making the heart "right" but the inmed doc said that we had to
consider the
> whole body issue: enalapril can adversely affect kidney functions
and like
> in humans, blood work on kidney functions comes back looking
ok/normal until
> the kidneys have degenerated a significant amt and already have
> damage....diltiazem and enalapril given together seem too much for
my way of
> thinking.....pum was diagnossed with high bp at about age 2 and
took norvasc
> for a long time just to lower the bp and we always hoped that the
bp would
> always be the only problem and of course that was wishful thinking
esp on my
> part bec it was always likely that the problem would evolve into
hcm...the
> cardiovet wjanted to immediately treat it as a heart problem bec he
did have
> a heart murmur....however, i decided to take the more conservative
> approach...my gp vet recommended it and since he was the father of
one of my
> staff members i decided to trust his hunches...also he was elderly
and had
> alot of experience....so i went with the internal meds doc
> recommendation...i have never regretted it.....once he evolved to
hcm about
> 5-6 yrs later he was put on atenolol by the internal meds vet and
we went
> back tot he cardiovet who added the enalapril eventaully but it did
cause
> kidney problems and it had to be discontinued...it's a balancing
act....you
> have to constantly check the blood work, the ultrasounds, trying to
do the
> best thing at the right time.....my internal meds vet has taken a
very
> conservative approach vs. the cardiovet who took more ddrastic
action....now
> the heart has one year later not deteriorated any further and it's
probably
> due to the time he took the enalapril and he's now on a special
diet and
> he's ok so far....but if it were me, i'd get a second opinion and
ask alot
> of questions to my current vet....esp knowing theat the meds will
adversely
> impact his kidneys eventually....il'm not too good on the numbers
you listed
> below but alot of other people here know alot more about the
#s......i think
> that i have probably upset you but i think it's better to ask these
> questions now rather than wait to go thru what i had to experience
with
> pumpkin when he was on the enalapril and the atenolol.....does this
make any
> sense? also, i'm sure that many cats have perhaps a better
tolerance for the
> meds than pum did........i hope what i have said has done more to
help than
> confuse and cause additional worry....lord knows sthat seems to be
what i do
> best of all when it comes to pum.....pum was given a very short life
> expectancy and now, alm ost 10 he continues to defy all the odds
and be the
> longest survivor of this website.....i attribute it to 1. allthe
advice and
> info i got at this website and all the great input i've had from
everyone
> over the years...everything i've learned...all the suppport we both
got when
> we both needed it so desperately and i know that time will come
again...2.
> the very early detection/intervention and equally conservative
approach that
> the internal meds vet took in treating pum....and his knowledge and
> resources...i can't say enough good things about him and his
operation....3.
> lots of love....we do love pum to pieces and just dote on him
> constantly....i hope that what i have said has helped ....
>
>
> i hope that others will give input here bec i feel pretty ignorant
about the
> #s you listed.....other thoughts from everyone oout there????
>
>
> linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gussielou49 [mailto:sschoff@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:24 PM
> To: feline-heart@y...
> Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
>
>
> Gus is 3 1/2 and since last year the vet has seen "marked
> enlargement" of the left aorta and thickening of L ventricular wall.
> His heart murmur is a 2+. Gus doesn't show obvious signs of HCM
> [other than what the ultrasounds show]. He sometimes [after chasing
> his sister] will stop, lie down and breath deeply in/out once. Why
> do the meds. seem drastic? The vet said that this was the best
thing
> to do for Gus right now. I don't know a lot since this is the first
> time w/ HCM for us. I'm just learning. I worry about Gus every
> day. I want to do the best thing I can for him. Thanks for any
> info. you have. Steph
> --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...>
wrote:
> > Pum's bp is 130 and the vet says thast good....he's on
> atenolol....giving
> > both the enalapril and the diltiazem sounds pretty drastic to
> me....have
> > they given you a reason why he's on both??? and how severe is his
> hcm?
> >
> > linda
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cynthia Rausch [mailto:crosseye@t...]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:10 PM
> > To: feline-heart@y...
> > Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
> >
> >
> > Steph Schoff wrote:
> > What is the average resting heart rate for a cat [w/ HCM]? My cat
> was
> > recently diagnosed w/ HCM and is on Enalapril & Diltiazem 1x day
> and 1
> > children's aspirin every 3 days. Before starting medication his
> rate was
> > around 132 bmp and now (2 weeks later) it's around 88-90. Called
> > emergency vet yesterday and they said that was OK. I will call my
> vet
> > tomorrow but just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas. Thanks!
> > Steph & Gus the cat.
> >
> >
> > Hi Steph,
> >
> > I think these are the ranges of normal from resting to an active,
> > excited cat.
> >
> > source: The Merck Manual says 120 -140 bpm for cats
> >
> > source: The Veterinary Drug Handbook says
> >
> > Young cats 130-140
> > Old cats 100-120
> >
> > source: The Cornell Book of Cats pg. 206
> >
> > A cat's heart normally beats from 120 to 240 times per minute.
> > Strenuous exercise, stress, excitement, or fever will accelerate
the
> > number of times the heart contracts to keep up with the body's
> demand
> > for oxygenated blood. *Resting* heart rates should be much lower
> than 240.
> >
> >
> > There was not mention for Cats with heart problems, I assume they
> > should be the same.
> >
> > Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Don't forget about the Tufts vet school. They are in Mass. I believe
they have a whole department of cardiology.
There is also a place in Springfield Mass, Rowley Animal Hospital,
which has a couple of cardiologist on staff.
I can't personally vouch for either place.
z
when pum was put on the enalapril it was explained to me sorta like this:
the enalapril will relax the musscle...hopefully it will relax it enough
that it will 'atrophy' somewhat and thereby reducing teh thickening or
buildup of the heart wall/muscle....at the time i had been in a kneee brace
for about 3 years to hellp with some knee injury and the muscles had
'rebuilt' too stronly on one side pulling the knee cap outa joint somehwat
and thereby causing me pain....i couldl've had laproscopic surgery but
didn't want to so this brace was the alternative....when the vet told me
about the enalapril and the theory he'd be working on, it made me think of
my knee problem and i told him...he said ''yes it's basiscsally the same
theory' : atrophy the muscle in one area and build it up in the right place
whil e holding the joint with the brace in the right place....' the
enalapril in pum's case was the brace; relaxing the muscle enough to
'atrophy' but not allowing any other buildup and that way the heart cavity
can hopefully increase again as the wall muscle
diminishes/atrophies......it's a pretty common sense approach...the problem
is that it's not a simple process to modify the body chemistry to allow that
to happen....more and more evidence and eresearch is showing that all these
problems are at the root immunological issues....it was discovered
'incidentally' that taking ciproflaxocin lowers cholesterol which got folks
to thinking along those lines....interesting....and if you read a few days
ago about the "worms" that you ingest to maintain a healthy colon....well,
there's more evidence....alsos, it's been susggested that some animals
develop hcm after administration of antibiotics...so there's more food for
thought.....my grandson's pediatrician recently told his parents that they
needed to let him get "dirtier" because otherwise he'd grow up with a weak
immune system.....so there it is and we just keep trying to do the best we
can for our little guys....good luck and keep us possted....
linda and the boys
-----Original Message-----
From: gussielou49 [mailto:sschoff@...]
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 6:09 PM
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
Thank you for your input…I really appreciate it! I'm glad Pum is
doing well. Everything you said makes sense. I have been doing lots
of research on this. I have a binder full of information on HCM and
related stuff. I feel very informed but I want to make sure I am
doing the right things. I am a little confused about the medicines,
Enalapril & Diltiazem, because they seem to do the same thing [relax
the blood vessels]. I'm sure they are different but I want to know
why he needs to be on both. I know one is an ACE and the other is a
CCB but that is a little above my head. I am concerned about side
effects but also know his heart needs some help. It's a tough
situation. Gus has an appointment next weekend for blood work and I
will have many questions to ask. We live a little over an hour from
a very reputable hospital where there are vet. cardiologists, so I am
considering going down there for a second opinion even though our vet
is wonderful. I hesitate to drive w/ Gus that far because he
stresses easily in the car…his heart goes wild. We currently see a
regular vet as well as a vet that does the ultrasounds [a mobile
vet]. I'm not sure if she specializes in cardiology but she seems to
know a lot about it. I need to clarify that. Thanks again…I'm glad
I found this message board. I'll keep you posted.
Steph & Gus
--- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...> wrote:
> did you see a cardiologist? i saw an internal meds spec, a gp vet
and a
> cardio vet when pum was diagnosed...the cardiovet had alot of focus
on
> making the heart "right" but the inmed doc said that we had to
consider the
> whole body issue: enalapril can adversely affect kidney functions
and like
> in humans, blood work on kidney functions comes back looking
ok/normal until
> the kidneys have degenerated a significant amt and already have
> damage....diltiazem and enalapril given together seem too much for
my way of
> thinking.....pum was diagnossed with high bp at about age 2 and
took norvasc
> for a long time just to lower the bp and we always hoped that the
bp would
> always be the only problem and of course that was wishful thinking
esp on my
> part bec it was always likely that the problem would evolve into
hcm...the
> cardiovet wjanted to immediately treat it as a heart problem bec he
did have
> a heart murmur....however, i decided to take the more conservative
> approach...my gp vet recommended it and since he was the father of
one of my
> staff members i decided to trust his hunches...also he was elderly
and had
> alot of experience....so i went with the internal meds doc
> recommendation...i have never regretted it.....once he evolved to
hcm about
> 5-6 yrs later he was put on atenolol by the internal meds vet and
we went
> back tot he cardiovet who added the enalapril eventaully but it did
cause
> kidney problems and it had to be discontinued...it's a balancing
act....you
> have to constantly check the blood work, the ultrasounds, trying to
do the
> best thing at the right time.....my internal meds vet has taken a
very
> conservative approach vs. the cardiovet who took more ddrastic
action....now
> the heart has one year later not deteriorated any further and it's
probably
> due to the time he took the enalapril and he's now on a special
diet and
> he's ok so far....but if it were me, i'd get a second opinion and
ask alot
> of questions to my current vet....esp knowing theat the meds will
adversely
> impact his kidneys eventually....il'm not too good on the numbers
you listed
> below but alot of other people here know alot more about the
#s......i think
> that i have probably upset you but i think it's better to ask these
> questions now rather than wait to go thru what i had to experience
with
> pumpkin when he was on the enalapril and the atenolol.....does this
make any
> sense? also, i'm sure that many cats have perhaps a better
tolerance for the
> meds than pum did........i hope what i have said has done more to
help than
> confuse and cause additional worry....lord knows sthat seems to be
what i do
> best of all when it comes to pum.....pum was given a very short life
> expectancy and now, alm ost 10 he continues to defy all the odds
and be the
> longest survivor of this website.....i attribute it to 1. allthe
advice and
> info i got at this website and all the great input i've had from
everyone
> over the years...everything i've learned...all the suppport we both
got when
> we both needed it so desperately and i know that time will come
again...2.
> the very early detection/intervention and equally conservative
approach that
> the internal meds vet took in treating pum....and his knowledge and
> resources...i can't say enough good things about him and his
operation....3.
> lots of love....we do love pum to pieces and just dote on him
> constantly....i hope that what i have said has helped ....
>
>
> i hope that others will give input here bec i feel pretty ignorant
about the
> #s you listed.....other thoughts from everyone oout there????
>
>
> linda
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: gussielou49 [mailto:sschoff@e...]
> Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 5:24 PM
> To: feline-heart@y...
> Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
>
>
> Gus is 3 1/2 and since last year the vet has seen "marked
> enlargement" of the left aorta and thickening of L ventricular wall.
> His heart murmur is a 2+. Gus doesn't show obvious signs of HCM
> [other than what the ultrasounds show]. He sometimes [after chasing
> his sister] will stop, lie down and breath deeply in/out once. Why
> do the meds. seem drastic? The vet said that this was the best
thing
> to do for Gus right now. I don't know a lot since this is the first
> time w/ HCM for us. I'm just learning. I worry about Gus every
> day. I want to do the best thing I can for him. Thanks for any
> info. you have. Steph
> --- In feline-heart@y..., "Mike & Linda Irrgang" <irrgang@a...>
wrote:
> > Pum's bp is 130 and the vet says thast good....he's on
> atenolol....giving
> > both the enalapril and the diltiazem sounds pretty drastic to
> me....have
> > they given you a reason why he's on both??? and how severe is his
> hcm?
> >
> > linda
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Cynthia Rausch [mailto:crosseye@t...]
> > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2002 2:10 PM
> > To: feline-heart@y...
> > Subject: Re: [FH] heart rate
> >
> >
> > Steph Schoff wrote:
> > What is the average resting heart rate for a cat [w/ HCM]? My cat
> was
> > recently diagnosed w/ HCM and is on Enalapril & Diltiazem 1x day
> and 1
> > children's aspirin every 3 days. Before starting medication his
> rate was
> > around 132 bmp and now (2 weeks later) it's around 88-90. Called
> > emergency vet yesterday and they said that was OK. I will call my
> vet
> > tomorrow but just wanted to see if anyone had any ideas. Thanks!
> > Steph & Gus the cat.
> >
> >
> > Hi Steph,
> >
> > I think these are the ranges of normal from resting to an active,
> > excited cat.
> >
> > source: The Merck Manual says 120 -140 bpm for cats
> >
> > source: The Veterinary Drug Handbook says
> >
> > Young cats 130-140
> > Old cats 100-120
> >
> > source: The Cornell Book of Cats pg. 206
> >
> > A cat's heart normally beats from 120 to 240 times per minute.
> > Strenuous exercise, stress, excitement, or fever will accelerate
the
> > number of times the heart contracts to keep up with the body's
> demand
> > for oxygenated blood. *Resting* heart rates should be much lower
> than 240.
> >
> >
> > There was not mention for Cats with heart problems, I assume they
> > should be the same.
> >
> > Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
> >
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> feline-heart-unsubscribe@y...
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
We're taking Rex to the vet today to find out what he has to say
about Rexs' murmur... I'm sure tests will be in order, since he's
never had any.
This doctor was suggested to me by one of the local cat rescue
people. She told me that the doctor believed in holistic medicine...
I hope that isn't ALL the medicine he believes in. However, a
healthy heart diet can only help, I suppose.
Anyway, please keep Rex in your prayers.
And I have a strange question; Rex seems fascinated by noses. He
loves to lick our noses...literally until they are raw and in a few
cases bleeding. Any idea why???? The funny thing is it's only noses.
I suggested to my wife he may have been dropped a lot as a
kitten... :)
Skid
We got some AWESOME news that we can only conclude is an answer to
our prayers.
Rex's heart no longer has any trace of a murmur.
The vet says that what most likely happened was that when he was
young and diagnosed, the halves of his heart didn't fully form. The
wall between the right and left side was open quite a bit.
In many cases (as in Rex's) the heart heals naturally and forms to
become a normal functioning heart. It's always possible that the
condition will return...but for now, our loving guy is just fine.
Thank you for your suggestions regarding financial assistance.
Although it wasn't needed, your support made me feel...well, not so
alone in this.
Skid
Sandy <arkrabs@...> Wrote:
Chelsea had bloodwork done Thur. and her vet called to say it was
pretty good except for elevated amylase 2424 (300-2000) and a high
band count -13%.
Hi Sandy and Chelsea,
Here is a link that explains the tests for pancreatitis, from
what I have read off other lists the TLI is the confirming test
to have done.
http://www.petdiabetes.org/pancreatitis.htm
Lipase and amylase are two digestive enzymes produced
by the pancreas that can be measured in the blood.
Elevations in these enzymes can suggest pancreatitis,
but are not definitive tests. This is because both
lipase and amylase are produced by other body tissues,
and because elevated levels may be due to other diseases
such as kidney dysfunction. The lipase test may be more
reliable than the amylase test, but it is not always
available and it must be requested as a special blood
test. Many dogs and cats (15-20%) with pancreatitis do
not have elevations in lipase and amylase, so when these
blood values are normal, it does not rule out pancreatitis.
Trypsin-like immunoreactivity (TLI) test. The TLI test may
help diagnosing acute pancreatitis in both cats and dogs.
This test measures serum concentration of two enzymes,
trypsinogen and trypsin. Trypsinogen is produced only by
the pancreas. With pancreatitis, TLI is elevated more
reliably than lipase. However, reduced kidney function
may cause an increase in serum TLI. Because TLI is not
always elevated, a normal TLI test does not rule out
pancreatitis. Unfortunately, only a few labs perform
this test and it may take about two weeks to get the
test results back.
I hope this helps,
Cynthia, Taffy, Samuel
Hi my name is Debbie and my 1 year old cat Chief was diagnosed with
hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy yesterday. They found it
actually by accident went doing an exam on him. He was at the
Columbus MedVet for an ultrasound on his bladder for occuring urine
infections. As the vet was listening to his heart she said she heard
a murmur and it was quite loud 4/6 grade. She sent him to a
cardiologist(sp?) and the ultrasound found that. He is on Atenolol
once a day to slow his heart rate down. They want it less than 150
beats per min. and if it isn't then we have to go to 2 times a day.
He will be checked again in 2 weeks, then in 3 months for another
ultrasound to see how fast it's progressing or if it is or not.
Debbie and Chief
is it strictly a high bp issue?
-----Original Message-----
From: debgram_2000 [mailto:debgram_2000@...]
Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 1:36 PM
To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FH] Hi I'm new
Hi my name is Debbie and my 1 year old cat Chief was diagnosed with
hypertrophic obstructive cardiomyopathy yesterday. They found it
actually by accident went doing an exam on him. He was at the
Columbus MedVet for an ultrasound on his bladder for occuring urine
infections. As the vet was listening to his heart she said she heard
a murmur and it was quite loud 4/6 grade. She sent him to a
cardiologist(sp?) and the ultrasound found that. He is on Atenolol
once a day to slow his heart rate down. They want it less than 150
beats per min. and if it isn't then we have to go to 2 times a day.
He will be checked again in 2 weeks, then in 3 months for another
ultrasound to see how fast it's progressing or if it is or not.
Debbie and Chief
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Hi Skid. That is a real funny characteristic your Rex has. I'm not sure why Rex
would be partial to noses, but I think that's cute. My spoo loves the smell of
soap. When my husband gets out of the shower she tries to eat his feet. My
other baby named Blossom refuses to drink water from a bowl. Instead, whenever
someone is walking past the bathroom door she makes a mad dash for the bath-tub
insisting that someone turn the water on. She laps up the water as it comes out
of the faucet. What would we do without our comical cats to make us laugh and
smile every day?? My pet's (other than my children of course) make my day.
Here is a cute saying: People who don't like cats were probably mice in a
earlier life. (HA! HA!)
Signed Spoo and Blossoms mom.
skid130 <skid130@...> wrote: We're taking Rex to the vet today to find
out what he has to say
about Rexs' murmur... I'm sure tests will be in order, since he's
never had any.
This doctor was suggested to me by one of the local cat rescue
people. She told me that the doctor believed in holistic medicine...
I hope that isn't ALL the medicine he believes in. However, a
healthy heart diet can only help, I suppose.
Anyway, please keep Rex in your prayers.
And I have a strange question; Rex seems fascinated by noses. He
loves to lick our noses...literally until they are raw and in a few
cases bleeding. Any idea why???? The funny thing is it's only noses.
I suggested to my wife he may have been dropped a lot as a
kitten... :)
Skid
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Ever since Gus has started his meds. (Enalapril & Diltiazem) about 2 1/2 weeks
ago, it seems like he has yellow mucous eye crusties more often than ever. Has
anyone noticed this w/ their cats on these meds?
Thanks, Steph & Gus
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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