I wondered if the toxicity depends on dose? Working out on the basis
of a 56 pound dog versus a 2 pound ferret in the Snopes case:
Assuming that the half a container the dog ate was one half of a pound
of a one pound container of raisins, and that hence the dog ate 1/112
of its body wt in raisins, a ferret would have to eat about 9g of
raisins to get the same outcome.

My ferrets weigh about a kilo (2.2pounds) so 1/112 of 1K
(1000grams)would be roughly 9 grams of golden raisins (sorry I only
have a metric balance so have to convert). I weighed my golden raisins
(don't laugh but I did get worried - a couple of the ferrets get an
occasional golden raisin).I found there are about 25 golden raisins
(Sunmaid brand in a cardboard packet - and rather dessicated) to 9g.
The packet is always kept in a cupboard inaccessible to ferrets.
However, I wondered if there are other treats, given in a large
quantity (in this case 20 X the usual amount)that might be just as
toxic if the dose is increased. What about raisin juice in the treats?

Has anyone on the list had a ferret that has had kidney problems after
consuming large amounts of any kinds of treats? A veterinarian I know
said one time she had 2 ferrets and she was horrified that they broke
into a packet of chocolate m and m's and ate the lot. She said they
had diarrhea but no other side effects.Chocolate is supposed to be a
no-no for many animals. Do different species have different
tolerances? Wouldn't the ancestral mustelid occasionally eat grapes or
dried fruit if available and it was hungry?

[Moderator's Note:  if memory serves -- check me against
the veterinarians' article in Ferrets magazine -- of the ferrets
discussed who suffered acute renal failure after raisins the
number of raisins at least on ate was no higher than 9 raisins,
which is not an unusual amount for stashers to put away.  I
doubt that nuances are known, though hopefully I am wrong on
that score.

Nor is it known if some individuals may have a
vulnerability contributing, and so far all the hypothesized
causes I have read have not panned out on testing (yet).

Yes, species can vary in what is toxic and in tolerances.

The problem does not seem to generalize to other fruits.

Sorry about replying this way; our network is unstable today
so it may be my only chance.  --SDC]

In a message dated 01/07/08 5:26:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com writes:

they said something to the effect that it may help to inject pred or
dexamethasone (forget which) into the open abdomen before closing.
Just anectdotal info, but has always made me wonder if it worked, why
don't vets routinely practice it? Being a steroid, I can see it
reducing inflamation, and possibly helping


**And being a steroid, I can see it reducing the body's natural defenses
against infection and delay healing.  This would never be a treatment choice of
mine post-op, unless very, very strange circumstances occurred.

The best way to avoid adhesions is gentle tissue handling during surgery,
thorough rinsing of the abdomen with appropriate sterile fluids (usually saline)
before closing, and prevention of excessive activity post-op.  Even when all
is done properly, though, some adhesions will still form.  The severity of the
adhesions depends on the individual.**

Dr. Ruth

*****************************************
Save lives - spay or neuter your pet.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Has anybody constructed a "safe snack list" for our little guys? I know for
one I would appreciate it if anyone does have one....

another newbie
Linda

-There might be a list somewhere Tressie. Some ferrets react
differently to different odors. I know who you are refering to and
she did have it confermed with her doctor that the chance her ferret
was reacting to her that way WAS extreamy high because of her
medications. What she was taking was causing her odor to become
different wich offended her ferret, hence the attacks.
We've seen this reaction to certain types of hand creams, deoterants
and perfumes in some of our ferrets.

Debi

-- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "Tressie" <tressiedu@...> wrote:
>
>
> Hi,
>
> This may be a strange question.  A couple of people have shared that
> their ferrets displayed aggressive behaviour toward them when they
were
> on certain medications.  Unfortunately, I don't have the details of
what
> they were taking except one did say it was an antibiotic.

--- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, Vicki Montgomery
<ferretfrenzy@...> wrote:
>
> Are you saying that less then 70%, by almost half, of your ferrets
DO NOT get adrenal disease? My experience in over a decade is that
over 90% (Almost all) of our ferrets DO get adrenal disease.
>
>   How many others on this group have experienced less than half of
their ferrets getting adrenal. This I assume are ferrets that live to
at least 6 year of age.
>
>
>   Vicki
>
Hi Vicki,

I currently have 6 ferrets and at this point ranging from 3 years of
age to 5 years of age and currently, I have only had one diagnosed
with Adrenal Disease, but I must also add that you are right. Most
ferrets do get Adrenal Disease and its usually just a matter of time.
2 of my females were a year old before they were fixed, so I am not
certain if that is why both have seemed to avoid this issue. I
currently deal with an Animal Hospital, rather then a vet, and they
are continuously duing studies on ferrets in reference to the Adrenal
Disease and he has made it quite clear that its a high percentage
that do get the disease. I hope that helps.
Irene

Hi Everyone,
I was just wondering if ferrets can eat fish?
Someone I know wants to de-clutter their freezer
and she has offered to give me the fish.
If the ferrets cant have it I know the cats will love it.

Virginia

Laugh a little,
Cry a little,
Live by the code of the west,
and don't forget to look out for the unexpected.

Ferrets can have fish in moderation.

Having too much of some marine fish or of squid can cause nutritional steatus
(yellow fat
disease), a nutritional disorder.

On the other hand, omega 3 fatty acids as are found in fish oil ( not cod liver
oil which is very
different) or in flax seed oil (but people need to remember to refrigerate that,
too, to avoid
spoilage) are good for kidney health.

Our vet was concerned about introducing different bacterias into the
ferrets system from them eating raw fish. However, cooking it would take
care of that. Several of mine enjoy tuna when I open a can.
Jane

Virginia McGee wrote:

Well as of this morning Koda is kinda playing with his litle ball  and sort of
cleaning himself - he is still sleeping roughly 23 hours a day and at the vet
yesterday we found out he gained 10 kgs over the last 2 days. He still has mucus
and diahrea. Also his eye still gets stuck together wih mucus but he is eating
more at a time.

We are optimistic nd so is our vet but as she said we ae still a long way from
"out of the woods"
Just keeping everyone updated...oh and as it stands he mayh just walk funny for
life... due to being so sick so young it may have done something to his brain :(


-Jess, Em, Ash (Cat), Goffer (Cat), Boo (Ferret), Koda (Ferret), and Roger-Teddy
(Teddy Bear Hamster)

Hi. I'm a small breeder so I have a small statistical sample, but if it helps...
I had three Marshall farm babies, all of them succumbed to adrenal disease - two
at 5 years old, one at over 6.

   Of my privately bred babies, which now are well over 30 ferrets ranging in age
from 8 months to 6 years (with the older generation who started my ferretry
living past 6), none have adrenal.  Other diseases, yes, I've had them succumb
to mostly lymphoma (cancers), but no adrenal.

   ann

It's pretty easy - meat and meat-based treats.  :-)  Fresh meats, cooked meats,
dried meats (but without all the salt used in jerky for humans), baby food
(meat), whole prey (if they go for it), anything like that.  Sometimes they want
some of my ham and cheese hoagies, but the salt in processed lunch meats isn't
good either so they only get a small bite.  The occasional lick or two of ice
cream or milk/whole cream won't hurt, and yeah, I've given them the option of
the occasional tiny piece of vegetable or fruit.  Anything that is not meat I
give only in very moderated amounts and mostly just because they won't leave me
eat my meal in peace.  They love licking the bowl clean when I eat cereal or
have strawberries with cream.  :-)

   The best treat, IMHO, is your time and attention.  :-)

   ann

GrannyInOregon <PeaceinOregon@...> wrote:
           Has anybody constructed a "safe snack list" for our little guys? I
know for
one I would appreciate it if anyone does have one....

another newbie
Linda

What are the markings for the breeders?
What are the breeders besides Marshall's?

Virginia

Stewart; you are doing such an awesome job and my heart goes out to you. I
know my day is coming with one of my guys and I sure dread it! Thank
goodness for this knowledgable group. Lots of heart and prayers.

Linda



On Jan 8, 2008 4:28 AM, Stewart <boomers_papi@...> wrote:

>   Well as of this morning Koda is kinda playing with his litle ball and
> sort of cleaning himself - he is still sleeping roughly 23 hours a day and
> at the vet yesterday we found out he gained 10 kgs over the last 2 days. He
> still has mucus and diahrea. Also his eye still gets stuck together wih
> mucus but he is eating more at a time.
>

These will help you.  Remember to use the FHL and FML archives and to look
through old
F-G postings as you narrow down your questions.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Ferret-Genetics/

http://www.ferret.org/

http://listserv.ferretmailinglist.org/archives/ferret-search.html

http://ferrethealth.org/archive/

My favorite on the topic in the FHL Archives is from a genetics professor, Dr.
Brett
Middleton:

http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YG3069

BEGIN QUOTE of post in full:

Date: Mon Apr 30, 2001 1:31pm
Subject: Re: Bob C: Albinism, Depigmentation, and Domestication

IANBC (I Am Not Bob C), but this is too much fun for me to resist.
Bob's answer will be even longer than mine, since I only have a single
weak copy of the lecture gene, but it's still probably as long as you
can stand. B-)

Regina J. Hart" <ferret@u...> wrote:
> In light of your discussion regarding depigmentation, is it possible
> for a ferret to express a depigmented pattern (e.g. blaze, mitt,
> panda, bib, etc.) without the presence of the Star Gene and/or
> Waardenburg's Syndrome?

Sure. But that doesn't mean that the resulting depigmentation isn't
associated with problems. There are lots of genes involved in the
development, structure and functioning of pigment cells, and any one of
them could have one or more alleles that result in some degree of
depigmentation. Since many (maybe even most) genes affect more than
one trait, an allele that causes depigmentation is likely to have other
effects.

White patterns associated with deafness are NOT always caused by the
genes associated with Waardenburg's Syndrome (WS). There are five
genes that are implicated in the different types of WS. These genes
are called PAX3, MITF, EDNRB, EDN3 and SOX10. However, most white
markings in domestic animals appear to be related to the KIT gene,
which is often referred to as the "S" ("spotting") locus in discussions
of coat-color genetics. White markings caused by alleles of this gene
are also associated with deafness, and can range from forehead markings
to extreme piebald patterns. For example, this is the gene that is
responsible for the coat pattern of Dalmatian dogs, as well as the high
incidence of deafness in that breed. (Question: has anyone actually
SHOWN that deaf ferrets with white markings are usually suffering from
WS, or have we just been going along with an assumption somebody once
made? My guess is that we've been using the term far too casually, and
that the KIT gene is largely responsible for blazes, pandas, etc.)

More about problems related to white markings below. But, first it's
interesting to ask if there exist any genetic mechanisms that can cause
depigmentation with NO associated problems. My guess on this would be
yes. There are a number of species that appear to exhibit some type of
depigmentation, but certainly aren't domesticated (no Star gene):
skunks have stripes, badgers have blazes, zebras are striped, and panda
bears are ... well ... panda. It seems unlikely that these patterns
would persist in the wild if they were associated with some detrimental
condition such as deafness, which means that the underlying genetic
causes are probably different than the common causes of depigmentation
in domestic animals. (OTOH, it is possible that these species derive
so much survival benefit from their coloration that it more than makes
up for a certain percentage of defective offspring. Somehow I find
this hard to believe, though.)

So, why aren't these "safe" depigmentation genes working in our
domestic animals? Darned if I know. They aren't all that common in
the wild, so maybe we just need to wait a couple million years for the
right mutation to show up. Or, maybe they *are* here, but we just
can't tell. For example, if I have two panda ferrets that aren't deaf,
how would I know if one was a mild case of WS while the other has some
"safe" genotype? Someday maybe there will be a Ferret Genome Project
and we will then have genetic tests that can tell the difference.

(I should also note that there is a difference between "depigmented"
and "white". If the hair is white but the skin can produce pigment,
then the animal is not depigmented. For example, Samoyed dogs are
depigmented, but polar bears are not, having black skin.)

> In addition to auditory and visual problems, what -if any- other
> problems are documented in Star Gene and/or Waardenburg's Syndrome
> individuals?

There are a zillion problems (scientifically speaking B-) associated
with various types of depigmentation. Failure of the neural tube to
close, cleft palate, enlarged colon, anemia, infertility, behavioral
disorders, reduced intelligence, limb malformations, problems with
balance, etc. It all depends on which gene or genes are causing the
depigmentation.

There are some interesting aspects to hearing problems associated with
white markings, especially where the KIT gene is involved. For
example, I mentioned that this gene is involved with both spotting and
deafness in Dalmatians. However, the incidence of hearing loss in
Dalmatians with black patches on the ears is much lower. The KIT gene
is also responsible for the white head, belly, feet and tail switch of
Hereford cattle, yet I've never heard that deafness is a particular
problem for this breed. Note that Herefords have pigmented ears.
While I don't know what genes are responsible for the markings of panda
bears, I do note that they, also, have pigmented ears. This seems to
indicate that genotypes exist that allow pigment cells to migrate to
the ear during embryonic development -- resulting in normal hearing --
while restricting migration to the skin and coat sufficiently to
produce the white markings that many find desirable. Unfortunately, we
don't yet know how this works, though it probably involves some
modifier gene(s) that interact with the KIT gene. We also don't know
if ferrets are one of the species in which this could be accomplished.
(We also don't know how far we could go in eliminating deafness in
Dalmatians. Patches are considered a disqualification in the Dalmatian
breed standard! Talk about shooting yourself in the foot ...)

Behavioral problems associated with depigmentation are another
interesting phenomenon, and are related to all types of depigmentation
(such as albinism), not just those types caused by a lack of pigment
cells. For example, albino mice are known to be much more "emotional"
or "reactive" than pigmented mice. Viennese white rabbits are subject
to seizures. Pointer dogs suffering from the "nervous behavior" defect
tend to be highly depigmented. Holstein cows with large amounts of
white are more nervous and less productive. White pigs are more likely
to suffer from Porcine Stress Syndrome, which kills them when they are
subjected to stress or exertion. (It would be interesting to know just
how many of these phenomena are directly related to reduced auditory
and/or visual acuity. For example, I don't think anyone ever bothered
to check those nervous white Holstein cows to see if they were hard of
hearing or had bad eyesight. We certainly know that deaf ferrets
require special handling to avoid provoking fear and aggression.)

> OK, make that three - What is your personal opinion with regard to
> the breeding of these individuals?

I, myself, would not. As I see it, there are only two other choices:
breed them without regard for health (not very ethical), or embark on a
full-scale program to develop healthy strains of marked ferrets (which
would involve large amounts of inbreeding and ruthless culling, with
all the attendant heartbreak). All for the sake of a characteristic
that is of no particular benefit to the animals or the species. Look
at all the horrible things that have been done to so many breeds of
dog, cat and livestock -- all resulting from breeding programs that
treat animals as some kind of artwork to be molded according to some
abstract esthetic standard divorced from any concept of biological
reality.

The responsibility of breeders to consider the well-being of the animal
in their selection programs is an aspect of animal welfare that is too
often neglected. Too many people who would never consider beating or
starving their animals suddenly seem to lose all sense of ethical
limits when it comes to breeding them. Temple Grandin at Colorado
State University has written quite a bit on this subject, and her
articles are well worth the time to read. I recommend the following
two for starters:

http://www.grandin.com/welfare/genetics.animal.welfare.html
http://www.grandin.com/references/horse.genetics.html

> While I'm directing these questions specifically at Bob, I'd be
> really interested in hearing from anyone who can provide insight!

I'd like to hear what Bob thinks of the idea that H. Sapiens actually
qualifies as a domestic animal! We may very well have domesticated
ourselves before we started on the others. B-)


END QUOTE




--- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, Virginia McGee <vkmcgee2@...> wrote:
>
> What are the markings for the breeders?
> What are the breeders besides Marshall's?
>
> Virginia
>

Did you mean ear tattoos?
Did you mean large scale ( wholesale) breeders?
- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, Virginia McGee <vkmcgee2@...> wrote:
>
> What are the markings for the breeders?
> What are the breeders besides Marshall's?

I make gravy according to the original recipe including the NutriCal,
but what about all the molasses and other sugars in it when I give it to
the insulinoma ferrets? If I leave it out can I use water-soluble
vitamins instead?  How much is used?

Carol

In a message dated 01/09/08 5:29:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com writes:

What are the markings for the breeders?
What are the breeders besides Marshall's?


**If you're referring to the tattoos that MF puts in the ears, they have two
tattooed dots.  Occasionally a dot on one of the feet.  I don't think Path
Valley (another farm breeder) tattoos at all.  Pretty sure Triple F and Carolina
Ferrets don't either.

Personally, I consider them farms.  They are doing large-scale production and
are selling to pet stores and (sometimes) individuals without screening
purchasers.  The small-scale breeders that I have been fortunate enough to work
with as I established my own breeding program are a totally different
proposition, as they are incredibly careful about who gets one of their babies,
the
babies are handled from birth and are not sold until a minimum of eight to ten
weeks old (most keep them until ten or later, unless placing a kit with another
breeder who has kits of the same age for their baby to socialize with).  None of
them that I am aware of tattoo or otherwise mark their kits, although some do
microchip them.

If you are looking for breeders, try the AFA site (_www.ferret.org_
(http://www.ferret.org) ) for a listing.

On rates of adrenal disease, personally, the vast majority (probably about
thirty or so) of the ferrets that I have had that came from a pet store have had
adrenal disease.  Some of them have had it later in life, but more than one
developed it before three years old, and one had had two surgeries for adrenal
disease by the time she hit a year of age.  None of the privately bred ferrets
that I have had (about forty, ranging in age currently from 4 months to six
years) have developed adrenal disease.  Same lifestyle, same light exposure - I
have to put it down to genetics and the effects of early altering/stress of
shipping on the pet store babies.

As a veterinarian, I'd say that 60% of the early altered ferrets that I see
will develop adrenal disease in their lifetime, some younger than others.  But
that's my impression, not from actually pulling charts and doing the math.
Not sure anyone has actually done the math.

Dr. Ruth

*****************************************
Save lives - spay or neuter your pet.



**************Start the year off right.  Easy ways to stay in shape.
http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To veterinarians and knowledgeable FHL members,

I have an adrenal ferret.  He has been diagnosed but was not given any meds
is this normal or should I go to another vet?  I want to help him as much as
I can.




Forget the risk Take the fall If it's meant to be It's worth it all!!!!


Shannon


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "shannon itrich" <happymotherof5@...>
wrote:
>
> To veterinarians and knowledgeable FHL members,
>
> I have an adrenal ferret.  He has been diagnosed but was not given any meds
> is this normal or should I go to another vet?  I want to help him as much as
> I can.
>

Adrenal disease MUST be treated.

Here is a past post from the archives on WHY:

http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG5054

BEGIN QUOTE

Subject: RE: Not Treating Adrenal Disease


Dear Katharine:

Actually tonight I am working on a promised article to Ferrets Mag about adrenal
disease.
But I think that Melissa and Sukie have covered the dire possibilities very well
(and they are
very real.)

However, even under the best conditions, when there is no malignancy, there is
no bone
marrow toxicosis, there is no prostatic cystic disease - even the most mild
prediction is a
sad
one. Ferrets with adrenal disease have a diminished quality of life - they have
progressive
muscle loss, low grade anemia, they tend to redistribute weight to the abdomen,
further
making
it difficult to walk, they have an increased incidence of gastric ulcers as a
result of the
stress of
chronic illness, decreased bone density - none life-threatening, but all life-
compromising. Even
medical treatment, which is not my preferred way of treating adrenal disease,
gives slight
relief
to symptoms. Doing nothing is not kind and not in a ferret's best interest.

With kindest regards,

Bruce Williams, DVM

END QUOTE

If surgery is not possible:

http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/adrenal.htm

Finding a Ferret Vet:

Ferret Veterinarian Lists:
http://ferrethealth.org/vets/
Shelters and the vets they use:
http://www.supportourshelters.org

http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/vets.htm
http://www.ferret.org/links/vets.shtm
http://www.ferretuniverse.com/index.html
http://www.quincyweb.net/quincy/vet.html
http://www.ferretcentral.org/for-others/db-vets.html
UK vets:
http://www.geocities.com/houseferrets13uk/Vets.html
British Columbia vets:
http://www.ferrets.org/Veterinarian_Listings.htm
California vets:
http://www.ferretnews.org/clinic.html
California vets:
http://www.ferretsanonymous.com/medical.html
Specialists anywhere:
http://www.vetcontact.com/en/vet.php?k=91

Notice that the Files section of the FHL also contains a list
of compounding pharmacies and the Archives and Links contain
info on where to get some meds.

WHEN MEDS MUST BE USED INSTEAD OF SURGERY:
Notice in past posts from
AFERRETVET
that is is best to combine the use of Lupron DEPOT (not 24 hour
Lupron) and Melatonin implant.  Later when it is available in the
U.S. deslorelin will probably be better in that combination than
Lupron.  Another related med is also under study as are some
other approaches and prevention work.

There are prevention posts also in the SEPARATE FHL Archives.  (See
my  signature lines for URL.

Also there:  less effective but helpful things when money is very
pinched and there is not an alternative.

Very important in the archives:  medical and surgical approaches
for some of the complications of untreated adrenal disease, or
adrenal disease for which the meds are not sufficient, or complete
excision was not possible and then meds were not sufficient.

For those who are new:  It always is good practice (and required
by the rules) to NOT target a post to one individual or one group
of individuals (example vets) because as this topic and info
received illustrates, often the best chance of getting useful replies
happens when seeking info from a range of individuals.  Besides,
sometimes many professionals are too busy to be on-line or are
away at conferences in large numbers.  That is a tip in the FHL Rules
(in the Files section) which is based on almost 7 years of FHL
experience and most of the rules are even based upon earlier experiences
of vets and were originally vet decreed.

Sukie (not a vet)

Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html

>Hello and welcome to the group. I am also new to the groups, but
have had ferrets for 2 years now. I have never seen or heard a case
like yours. Its terrible to think what this poor baby has gone thru
over the course of his life, but it sounds like your heading in the
right direction by changing the diet and getting him looked over by a
vet. There are a few diseases that seem to affect ferrets, but based
on what I know of them, it does not exactly sound like your ferret is
dealing with any of that. Adrenal Disease is a big one and it usually
starts with balding of the tail or even patches of fur missing from
the skin, which does not seem to be the problem with your Pete. The
other disease, which is a possibility is Lymphoma. I do not know if
your vet checked for this, but it is a cancer they can get that over
time can spread and be fatal. My one ferret is currently dealing with
this and the first sign I had was that she was not using her hind
legs at all. You woul have almost thought she broke her back the way
she dragged herself around. Yet, when she had to go to the bathroom,
she was up on all four and going and eventually would drop after she
was done. She was lethargic and just very quite and unactive. She had
to go to the vet and under go many tests before they were able to pin
point the problem and she has been getting chemo since. Ferrets
should be very playful and wild, as I would call them. When they are
up, they are curious little creatures that will go into and get into
everything. Do you feel this new one is moving around and acting like
your Leela? How is she eating? How is her stool? Let me know and I
will try to help as much as I can.
Irene

I am new to the group, so please bare with me if I am repeating any
conversations that may have occured. I know I did try to go back and
see if it had been brought up, but nothing I picked up on.
I currently have 6 ferrets and I find their coats are getting dry and
they are itching a lot more. They get a little ferretone in their food
and I also mix 2/3 oil and 1/3 ferretone, which I give as a when they
are getting their nails trimmed or as an extra treat, but I am worried
that I should be giving something else to them to get that coat soft
and shiny again. I also need to relieve that ichiness for them so they
are not scratching so much. Is there any advice or products you might
recommend for this. Pls let me know, and thank you in advance.
Irene

When all get too dry when the furnace or A/C are running a lot use a humidifier
BUT be sure
to clean it properly often because humidifiers are often sources of mold
otherwise.  You
may also want to increase their fat intake during those months, for example with
fish oil
(NOT cod liver oil) mixed with a little very plain virgin olive oil.

Shannon:

     Here is an excellent past post from Dr. Jerry Murray, an extremely
knowledgeable ferret vet.  I'd suggest that you read this and share it with your
current vet.  Also, if your current vet does not know much about ferrets, then
you may want to consider looking for a more ferret-knowledgeable vet in your
area.  Here are links to do that:

Finding a veterinarian
http://www.smartgroups.com/vault/ferrethealth/ReferenceShelf/FerretVets.htm
http://fhl.sonic-weasel.org/vets/ Search by zip code, read FAQ first.
http://www.quincyweb.net/quincy/vet.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/vets.htm
http://www.ferretcentral.org/for-others/db-vets.html


Dr. Murray'as post:

http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YPG79

BEGIN QUOTE

Hi everybody,
Seems there has been some interesting comments about
adrenal gland disease and how to treat adrenal gland disease.
So lets clear up some of the terminology and confusion.
Ferrets develop hyperadrenocorticism (ie adrenal gland disease),
and their adrenal glands overproduce the sex hormones and
the adrenal androgens (DHEA, ANDRO, PROGESTERONE,
AND ESTROGEN). Dogs and people develop hyperadrenocorticism
(Cushing's disease), and their adrenal glands overproduce cortisol.
Cushings is the correct term for cortisol overproduction, and
it is a good term for dogs and people.
Because ferrets rarely overproduce cortisol, Cushings is not an
accurate term for ferrets.
Likewise since ferrets do not overproduce cortisol, some of the
drugs used for dogs do not work well for ferrets.

Vetoryl (trilostane) is a good drug to use for dogs, but it may not
be a good drug for ferrets. Vetoryl will increase the amount of
progesterone produced. Progesterone is one of the hormones
that ferrets with adrenal gland disease can over produce (see
above). Thus Vetoryl is not the best option for ferrets.

Lupron depot (also called Lueprorelin in Europe) (Leuprolide acetate)
is a VERY SAFE product. I have been using it for more than 8.5
years now. It does not cause any liver damage or have any side
effects on the liver in ferrets! It works by stopping the stimulation
(LH) to the adrenal glands. Then the adrenal glands stop over
producing the sex hormones and adrenal androgens. If Lupron
is used with cases of hyperplasia and adenomas, it may
shrink the size of the adrenal glands. It may also help keep
carcinomas from getting bigger.

Suprelorin implants (deslorelin acetate) is another product that
stops the stimulation (LH) to the adrenal glands and then the
adrenal glands stop over producing the sex hormones and
adrenal androgens. It is not yet available here in the US, but
it is available in Australia, New Zealand and a few other countries.
The 4.7 mg implant is the recommend dose

Melatonin (implants or orally) is another option. Melatonin should also
lower the LH level and the sex hormone and androgen levels. The
big question with melatonin is whether the ferret will become
refractory to it when used over a long time. Melatonin should also
help prevent the adrenal gland from becoming larger as was shown
in the U of Wisconsin oral melatonin study.

Yes, Lupron and melatonin can be used together! In my opinion
using melatonin and Lupron together gives you the best of both
worlds and is the best option for medical management of adrenal
gland disease in ferrets.
Hope that helps,
Jerry Murray, DVM

END QUOTE

Best of luck,

Jeff
In Memory of Neo
Caring for Trinny, Morphy, Baby Girl, and Luna

*************



   ----- Original Message -----
   From: shannon itrich
   To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
   Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2008 1:11 PM
   Subject: Re: Re Breeder Markings? and Adrenal rates Re: [ferrethealth] Digest
Number 1020



    To veterinarians and knowledgeable FHL members,

   I have an adrenal ferret. He has been diagnosed but was not given any meds
   is this normal or should I go to another vet? I want to help him as much as
   I can.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Okay thanks.  I have an appt tuesday with a ferret knowledgeable vet. I will
let you know how it goes.

Irene, just a thought - do you bath them often? That will dry their coats out.
   Lynne and the brats

J Vet Med Sci. 2007 Dec;69(12):1321-4.

Isolation and Chemiluminescent Properties of Ferret (Mustela putorius
furo) Polymorphonuclear Cells.

Nakata M, Itou T, Sakai T.
Nihon University Veterinary Research Center.
Ferret polymorphonuclear cells (PMNs) and peripheral blood mononuclear
cells (PBMCs) were separated from whole blood by density gradient
centrifugation. Using a 50% Percoll solution (density=1.066), PMNs and
PBMCs were successfully isolated after centrifugation; the purities of
the PMNs and PBMCs were 94.2% and 95.6%, respectively. To evaluate the
function of isolated ferret PMNs, we measured the superoxide
generation with a MCLA-dependent chemiluminescence assay. The isolated
ferret PMNs responded to phorbol 12-myristate 13-acetate (PMA) with
kinetics similar to that of human PMNs. The ferret PMNs did not
respond to N-formyl-Met-Leu-Phe (fMLF), unlike human PMNs, which
rapidly responded. Thus, authors established a method for the rapid
separation of highly purified populations of functional PMNs from the
whole blood of ferrets.
PMID: 18176035 [PubMed - in process]

END QUOTE

Article:  http://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/jvms/69/12/1321/_pdf

Potential relevance:

BEGIN QUOTED SEGMENTS:

... few
reports have investigated the fundamental inflammation
response of ferrets, in which neutrophils play an important
role.
Polymorphonuclear cells (PMNs) adhere to endothelial
cells in the blood vessels at sites of infection and inflamma-
tion, then, the PMNs infiltrate into tissues showing active
chemotaxis.
...
   Moreover,
PMNs are also activated with chemotactic factors, immuno-
complexes, and cytokines and have strong relevance to the
first line of defense against infections

END QUOTED SEGMENTS

BEGIN QUOTE

Thalamus Relat Syst. 2005 Jun;3(2):133-139.
Temporal properties of feedforward and feedback pathways between the
thalamus and visual cortex in the ferret.

Briggs F, Usrey WM.
Center for Neuroscience, University of California, Davis, CA 95618, USA.
This study examines the temporal properties of geniculocortical and
corticogeniculate (CG) pathways that link the lateral geniculate
nucleus (LGN) and primary visual cortex in the ferret. Using
electrical stimulation in the LGN to evoke action potentials in
geniculocortical and CG axons, results show that conduction latencies
are significantly faster in geniculocortical neurons than in CG
neurons. Within each pathway, axonal latency and visual physiology
support the view of sub-classes of neurons. By examining the timing of
visual responses and the latency of CG feedback, estimates indicate
that visual information can reach the cortex and return to the LGN as
early as 60 msec following the onset of a visual stimulus. These
findings place constraints on the functional role of corticogeniculate
feedback for visual processing.
PMID: 18176624 [PubMed - author manuscript in PMC]

END QUOTE

Full article: 
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?tool=pubmed&pubmedid=1817662\
4

--- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, Lynne Fink <ferretladylynne@...>
wrote:
>
> Irene, just a thought - do you bath them often? That will dry their
coats out.
>   Lynne and the brats
>
No, we actually are probably more guilty of not bathing them enough. I
try not to bath them more then twice a year because of possible
dryness. We did just give them their bath though and that is when
things got a little worse. I also have been using Tide and washed their
bedding in it, which makes me wonder if the Tide might be irritating
their skin. I was going to re-rinse everything to see if I notice a
difference. Do you recommend any specific detergent for their items?
Irene

We find that they are best with a "Free and Clear" detergent of any brand used
for the
bedding and NO fabric softener.

There are some animal product conditioners or creme rinses that can be used
after
shampooing which can help reduce irritation.  I know that we have gotten some
from J&R
and I think also from The Ferret Store when that existed and from Ferret Depot 
so current
places for ferret products should have some.

Yes, there are such products still:
http://www.ferretdepot.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?
Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=2Shampoos

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/pet_supplies.cfm?c=17342+17352

In Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/
search using
  ferret creme
and
ferret conditioner

but I don't see any in
http://www.ferret.com/Grooming.aspx?CatID=174&category=Grooming&subcategory=
though you should check anyway because I might have missed it

There will be other, more general animal needs merchants, and of course local
retail
stores.

I do not know if any of the spray on ones for ferrets are ones that can put
later on a dry
coat and then dried to help reduce itchiness.

If you had said that only one was itching we would have all wondered about
adrenal
disease, but it is all.

BTW, have they been checked for fleas just to be thorough, though the recent
shampooing
and the dryness in Winter are probably enough of an explanation.

Hi Irene,  I've used Dreft (meant for human babies), it doesnt have any dyes or
any perfumes in it.  Also the dryer sheets that I use are perfume and dye free. 
I've been using this for years and feel that its the safest for my guys... they
dont need that added gunk!  Also, I think bathing them twice a year is fine.
   Andrea

Sorry late reply on this... but I dont think I saw it mentioned.  I know you can
add in "Diazoxide" if you find the Pred is not working so great.  But, I dont
believe you can stop the Pred... I've never heard of that.
   Andrea

zodanga1 <zodanga1@...> wrote:
           Question about 2 of my ferrets meds:

"Maggie" has insulinoma and has been taking prednisilone for many
months now (she is too old to be a surgical candidate @ around 7
<SNIP>