----------
> From: Clark, Trey <clat1@...>
> well I would like to be able to have about 20 fancy Goldfish in each
pond.
> This would give me a total of about 40 Fancy Goldfish outdoors.

$$$ You don't have predators where you live?  ALL my fancy GF were eaten by
pond pests so now (the new ones) are kept in protected kiddie pools.

I only
> really need at this time space for about 20 So I figure 40 will give me
some
> room to grow.

$$$ Are you buying them or breeding them yourself?
>
> If i plan on putting 20 fish in each above ground pond.  How many gallons
> will I need for each Outdoor pond to be?  why is the rule of thumb for
fancy
> out door goldfish?

$$$ They can get very large outside.  Just my opinion but 1 adult GF per 20
gallons would be about right.  And they breed like crazy so you need space
for that eventuality.

Carol........
"Follow your dream!  Unless it's the one where you're at work in
your underwear during a firedrill."
---<---<---{@   ---<---<---{@   ---<---<---{@   ---<---<---{@
---<---<---{@

well I would like to be able to have about 20 fancy Goldfish in each pond.
This would give me a total of about 40 Fancy Goldfish outdoors.  I only
really need at this time space for about 20 So I figure 40 will give me some
room to grow.

If i plan on putting 20 fish in each above ground pond.  How many gallons
will I need for each Outdoor pond to be?  why is the rule of thumb for fancy
out door goldfish?


Trey

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meister [SMTP:meister@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 1999 9:42 AM
> To: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [goldfishloverspond] Pond building advise
>
> From: "Meister" <meister@...>
>
> So, you work with what you have then :)
> Just outta curiosity, how many gallons are you thinking about per
> tank/raceway, how many fish in each, how many raceways/tanks ?
>
> >>Sorry the foot has been placed down........ I am only allowed to
> place the
> breeding ponds in the side yards. I have no say so on the issue.
> they will be located where all the pool equipment is.  I  should
> have enough
> room for two rectangular breeding raceways if they are laid out
> correctly.>>
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> cheers,
> Mary
> meister@...
>
> > Community email addresses:
>   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

So, you work with what you have then :)
Just outta curiosity, how many gallons are you thinking about per
tank/raceway, how many fish in each, how many raceways/tanks ?

>>Sorry the foot has been placed down........ I am only allowed to
place the
breeding ponds in the side yards. I have no say so on the issue.
they will be located where all the pool equipment is.  I  should
have enough
room for two rectangular breeding raceways if they are laid out
correctly.>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
cheers,
Mary
meister@...

Sorry the foot has been placed down........ I am only allowed to place the
breeding ponds in the side yards. I have no say so on the issue.

they will be located where all the pool equipment is.  I  should have enough
room for two rectangular breeding raceways if they are laid out correctly.

Trey



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Windsong [SMTP:fishhead@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 11:31 PM
> To: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
> Subject: Re: [goldfishloverspond] Pond building advise
>
> From: "Windsong" <fishhead@...>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: The GoldFish Store <goldfish@...>
>
> > Actually I have to build them out of eye site.  The other half has put
> the
> > foot down.  IF they can be seen from the pool or from any window in the
> > house I can not build them.
>
> ## What about putting up a nice privacy fence so the other half can't see
> them?  Or grow a shrubrow?   There's ways to work around things like
> that,... although my hubby has threatened to leave home if I dig out
> another
> pond.  So I keep adding whiskey barrels, kiddie pools...    ;O)
>
>  They are all going to be built on the side yard
> > that is not viewable to others.
>
> ##  I ran out of sideyard already,... been putting some pools behind the
> house....
>
> Carol...
> View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
> http://www.heartoftn.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
> }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>
>
> > Community email addresses:
>   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

Sorry for my bad English. I attend bulding Pond in April or May. Here in
Yugoslavia in January temp is very negativ 0C to -17C (32F to 0F)!!!

>From: "The GoldFish Store" <goldfish@...>
>
>Zeljko,
>
>Why do you think may or April?  where in live in Florida the weather is
>really nice in January.
>
>Trey
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Zeljko Ciric [mailto:cira@...]
>
>
>
>From: "Zeljko Ciric" <cira@...>
>
>I have same idea, but I think to do that in April or May. Sorry I can't
help
>you with concrete blocks but here is some good links to ponding pages:
>
>http://members.home.net/crush11/welcome.htm    Pond Rushes
>http://reality.sgi.com/peteo/index.html                      Peteo Pond
Page
>http://users.erols.com/kutzlo/tkweb.htm                    Ponding 101
>....
>
>>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

----- Original Message -----
From: The GoldFish Store <goldfish@...>

> Actually I have to build them out of eye site.  The other half has put the
> foot down.  IF they can be seen from the pool or from any window in the
> house I can not build them.

## What about putting up a nice privacy fence so the other half can't see
them?  Or grow a shrubrow?   There's ways to work around things like
that,... although my hubby has threatened to leave home if I dig out another
pond.  So I keep adding whiskey barrels, kiddie pools...    ;O)

  They are all going to be built on the side yard
> that is not viewable to others.

##  I ran out of sideyard already,... been putting some pools behind the
house....

Carol...
View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
}<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>

----- Original Message -----
From: The GoldFish Store <goldfish@...>
> I guess I should have also explained that these ponds are going to be
ponds
> used for my breeding program.  they will not be seen or have an aesthetic
> purpose.  They are strictly for breading and raise fancy goldfish.

====================
Trey, I would still use a thin, cheap rubber liner in them no matter what.
One leak and you can lose the whole mass of fish inside.  Also if the stuff
you seal it with should leach out into the water....  Roofers sell cheap
liners of all sizes that are safe to use despite the stories of fungicides
etc.

Carol...
View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
}<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>

Actually I have to build them out of eye site.  The other half has put the
foot down.  IF they can be seen from the pool or from any window in the
house I can not build them.  They are all going to be built on the side yard
that is not viewable to others.

Trey

-----Original Message-----
From: Meister [mailto:meister@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 11:03 PM
To: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [goldfishloverspond] Pond building advise


From: "Meister" <meister@...>


Trey,

Spend a few extra dollars and have some esthetic beauty in the
backyard.....are the fishies going to be near the BBQ area at all?
If you do it right the first time you can still use the ponds area
in your entertaining concept.
As Carol said, most ponders make the pond too small the first time
and have to rip it our and expand or add on to the original pond.
In your case, you might find that you have to add to get it from
an eye sore to something you can tolerate while haveing a few
friends in for wine and cheese.

>>I guess I should have also explained that these ponds are going
to be ponds
used for my breeding program.  they will not be seen or have an
aesthetic
purpose.  They are strictly for breading and raise fancy
goldfish.>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
cheers,
Mary
meister@...

Community email addresses:
   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
   Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
   Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
   List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

Trey,

Spend a few extra dollars and have some esthetic beauty in the
backyard.....are the fishies going to be near the BBQ area at all?
If you do it right the first time you can still use the ponds area
in your entertaining concept.
As Carol said, most ponders make the pond too small the first time
and have to rip it our and expand or add on to the original pond.
In your case, you might find that you have to add to get it from
an eye sore to something you can tolerate while haveing a few
friends in for wine and cheese.

>>I guess I should have also explained that these ponds are going
to be ponds
used for my breeding program.  they will not be seen or have an
aesthetic
purpose.  They are strictly for breading and raise fancy
goldfish.>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
cheers,
Mary
meister@...

But, it is the water pressure from the center of the pond pushing
out towards the walls of blocks that is the problem.  You will
have to burm the walls of clocks from the outside to hold the
water in.
If you do not burm the walls of blocks the water will knock the
walls down and all the water will rush out and you will have
fishies all over your backyard.    :(
Some people burm the walls up with rail road ties and then fill
the space between the ties and the blocks with earth 0 tamped down
well.   On the earth mound you can grow grass.  You must also
secure the ties together with re-bar going down thru the ties,
especially at all tie corners.


>>Well if they will hold up a roof to a house, in ground and above
ground
swimming pools I would think they would work out great!  :+)>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
cheers,
Mary
meister@...

I guess I should have also explained that these ponds are going to be ponds
used for my breeding program.  they will not be seen or have an aesthetic
purpose.  They are strictly for breading and raise fancy goldfish.

Trey

-----Original Message-----
From: Clark, Trey [mailto:clat1@...]

In January I will hopefully be building two above ground ponds.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should make sure I do and what
I should not do.  I was planning on using concrete blocks and not use a
liner.  What suggestions does anyone have on the building and what materials
to use?


Trey

----- Original Message -----
From: The GoldFish Store <goldfish@...>

> Does anyone have experience with raceways

=============
On rec.ponds is a man named Brett Rowley who raises koi professionally.  I'm
sure he can help or point you in the right direction.

Carol...
View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
}<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>

Well if they will hold up a roof to a house, in ground and above ground
swimming pools I would think they would work out great!  :+)


Trey

-----Original Message-----
From: Windsong [mailto:fishhead@...]

From: "Windsong" <fishhead@...>



And you may  want to check out rec.ponds on Usenet for a lot of great
information.  Also lots of experienced ponders there to answer just about
any question you can come up with.

I'm just wondering if the blocks would hold up under all that water
pressure.

Carol...
View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
}<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>

The ponds will be built like raceways above ground.  the concrete should not
be a problem as it will be sealed. and not actually exposed to the water.

Does anyone have experience with raceways?



Trey

-----Original Message-----
From: Windsong [mailto:fishhead@...]



From: "Windsong" <fishhead@...>


----- Original Message -----
From: Clark, Trey <clat1@...>
>
> In January I will hopefully be building two above ground ponds.

How do you mean aboveground?  What are you using to hold the water in?
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should make sure I do and
what
> I should not do.

Make it as LARGE as possible from the start.  Most ponders make their first
ponds too small.

I was planning on using concrete blocks and not use a
> liner.  What suggestions does anyone have on the building and what
materials
> to use?

Use a liner as mortar is so alkaline it'll KILL all your fish!   And a liner
is 100% waterproof.

Carol....the Frugal Ponder in zone 6 TN....
}<(((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{o>
>
>
> Trey

Community email addresses:
   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
   Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
   Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
   List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com

Shortcut URL to this page:
   http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

----- Original Message -----
From: Zeljko Ciric <cira@...>
> I have same idea, but I think to do that in April or May. Sorry I can't
help
> you with concrete blocks but here is some good links to ponding pages:

===========\
And you may  want to check out rec.ponds on Usenet for a lot of great
information.  Also lots of experienced ponders there to answer just about
any question you can come up with.

I'm just wondering if the blocks would hold up under all that water
pressure.

Carol...
View my webpage about my fish and ponds at:
http://www.heartoftn.net/users/fishhead/welcome.html
}<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o. ~~~ }<(((o> ~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~ }<(((o>

----- Original Message -----
From: Clark, Trey <clat1@...>
>
> In January I will hopefully be building two above ground ponds.

How do you mean aboveground?  What are you using to hold the water in?
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should make sure I do and
what
> I should not do.

Make it as LARGE as possible from the start.  Most ponders make their first
ponds too small.

I was planning on using concrete blocks and not use a
> liner.  What suggestions does anyone have on the building and what
materials
> to use?

Use a liner as mortar is so alkaline it'll KILL all your fish!   And a liner
is 100% waterproof.

Carol....the Frugal Ponder in zone 6 TN....
}<(((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{o> ~~~~ }<((((o> ~~~~ }<{{{{o>
>
>
> Trey

Trey Sorry no. All mine are with liner. I have4-1000gal. ponds.

Zeljko,

Why do you think may or April?  where in live in Florida the weather is
really nice in January.

Trey

-----Original Message-----
From: Zeljko Ciric [mailto:cira@...]



From: "Zeljko Ciric" <cira@...>

I have same idea, but I think to do that in April or May. Sorry I can't help
you with concrete blocks but here is some good links to ponding pages:

http://members.home.net/crush11/welcome.htm    Pond Rushes
http://reality.sgi.com/peteo/index.html                      Peteo Pond Page
http://users.erols.com/kutzlo/tkweb.htm                    Ponding 101
....

Bob,

I really want to more go with a raceway kinda set up without a liner.  I was
hoping to go with concrete blocks that have been sealed.  Have you ever set
up a pond with out a liner?

Thanks for your help  :+)

Trey

-----Original Message-----
From: NetCaught@... [mailto:NetCaught@...]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 1999 6:38 PM
To: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
Subject: Re: [goldfishloverspond] Pond building advise


From: NetCaught@...

Hi Trey,I use 4"X4"X8'-40 pcs plus liner.This will make a raise flower
bed,but with water.8'X8'X34"= about a 1000 gal.                     Bob

Hi Trey,I use 4"X4"X8'-40 pcs plus liner.This will make a raise flower
bed,but with water.8'X8'X34"= about a 1000 gal.                     Bob

I have same idea, but I think to do that in April or May. Sorry I can't help
you with concrete blocks but here is some good links to ponding pages:

http://members.home.net/crush11/welcome.htm    Pond Rushes
http://reality.sgi.com/peteo/index.html                      Peteo Pond Page
http://users.erols.com/kutzlo/tkweb.htm                    Ponding 101
....


>From: "Clark, Trey" <clat1@...>
>
>In January I will hopefully be building two above ground ponds.
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should make sure I do and
what
>I should not do.  I was planning on using concrete blocks and not use a
>liner.  What suggestions does anyone have on the building and what
materials
>to use?
>
>
>Trey
>
>>Community email addresses:
>  Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
>  Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
>  Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>  List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com
>
>Shortcut URL to this page:
>  http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

In January I will hopefully be building two above ground ponds.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I should make sure I do and what
I should not do.  I was planning on using concrete blocks and not use a
liner.  What suggestions does anyone have on the building and what materials
to use?


Trey

I just wanted to jump in and also add my hearty welcome to the already large
and growing larger group of people we have here.  This list is a sister list
to the original GoldFish lovers list which has become known as one of the
nicest and friendliest lists on the subject of indoor GoldFish.  We hope
that goldfishloverspond will become know for the same exact reasons and will
grow just as fast.

I know I can't wait to learn a great deal from everyone.  I know very little
about outdoor ponds and am really excited to learn for everyone.   I will
start building my two above ground breeding ponds in January so I can't wait
to see what everyone suggests.

If anyone has any questions or has any problems please feel free to talk to
Marry or myself.   As moderators we are here to help make sure that
goldfishloverspond is the best source for friendly and  helpful information
on the internet.

Happy Holidays!

Trey
Owner/Moderator
goldfishloverspond  &  GoldFishLovers

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Meister [SMTP:meister@...]
>
>
> From: "Meister" <meister@...>
>
> Hi All,
>
> One could argue that it is an absolutely crazy idea to start up a
> pond list just before most of us enter the deepest, darkest and
> coldest part of the year.  Heck no.  This is the time of the year
> that most of us are planning and putting our ponds to "bed" for
> the winter and planning for the re-dig, re-novation, re-opening
> for next spring.  From my experience most of the reading and
> asking goes on now at this time of the year and most of the hands
> on work goes on in the spring and summer.
>
> It's a perfect time of the year to start a pond list.  It will let
> everyone get to know each other and some new points of pond-view
> over the winter.  And then, for those spoiled people who live in a
> warmer climate, who might just be planning to dig their ponds
> within the next couple of weeks - it will be a great partner to
> have along.  Hand holding at GoldFishLoversPond.
>
> I think that Trey and I hope to have lots of points of view, lots
> of different experienced people, ponders and those that dream
> about being ponders.
>
> Speak out if you have experience with pumps, chemistry, digging,
> liners, cement, marginal plants, submerged plants, tropicals,
> hardies, fuzzy algae - the kind that grows on the side of the
> pond - string algae, green water, gin clear water, waterfalls,
> bogs, veggie filters, pond green houses, pond envy, fish envy,
> tadpoles, froggies, predators and raccoons, herons, egrets, shop
> vacs, leaks, overflows, and last but not least pond enjoyment.
>
> Who has ponds?  Who is thinking about a pond?   Do you want a pond
> to enjoy the goldfish outdoors or for the whole water picture and
> some plants.
>
> Welcome to ponding.
>
> Mary
>
> cheers,
> Mary
> meister@...
>
> > Community email addresses:
>   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

Hi All,

One could argue that it is an absolutely crazy idea to start up a
pond list just before most of us enter the deepest, darkest and
coldest part of the year.  Heck no.  This is the time of the year
that most of us are planning and putting our ponds to "bed" for
the winter and planning for the re-dig, re-novation, re-opening
for next spring.  From my experience most of the reading and
asking goes on now at this time of the year and most of the hands
on work goes on in the spring and summer.

It's a perfect time of the year to start a pond list.  It will let
everyone get to know each other and some new points of pond-view
over the winter.  And then, for those spoiled people who live in a
warmer climate, who might just be planning to dig their ponds
within the next couple of weeks - it will be a great partner to
have along.  Hand holding at GoldFishLoversPond.

I think that Trey and I hope to have lots of points of view, lots
of different experienced people, ponders and those that dream
about being ponders.

Speak out if you have experience with pumps, chemistry, digging,
liners, cement, marginal plants, submerged plants, tropicals,
hardies, fuzzy algae - the kind that grows on the side of the
pond - string algae, green water, gin clear water, waterfalls,
bogs, veggie filters, pond green houses, pond envy, fish envy,
tadpoles, froggies, predators and raccoons, herons, egrets, shop
vacs, leaks, overflows, and last but not least pond enjoyment.

Who has ponds?  Who is thinking about a pond?   Do you want a pond
to enjoy the goldfish outdoors or for the whole water picture and
some plants.

Welcome to ponding.

Mary

cheers,
Mary
meister@...

http://food.epicurious.com/c_play/c02_polite/polite.html

Hugs!

Trey

Well looks like things have been going so well with GFlovers that we have
decided to have a baby!  So after tireless hours of us trying to conceive a
child we are happy to announce the birth of a happy baby email list (huge
proud father grin)  (on a side note: Mary is the proud Mommy)

The new list is for the friendly discussion of ponds and outdoor GoldFish
raising.  The Doctor described the new child as:
  "A place for the Friendly and helpful discussion of outdoor/pond GoldFish.
We like to exchange Information on backyard ponds, goldfish, Koi, pond
construction, pond care, and how to avoid "gotcha's" in pond keeping. This
is a place to find and offer friendly and helpful advice on the care and
raising of our pets."
The difference between GFlovers and the New baby is that GFlovers was
created just for the discussion of indoor Goldfish.  Alot of people here
also have outdoor/pond goldfish and as such we needed a place for the topic
of the outdoor ponds and all the stuff that goes along with it.  So if you
would like to discuss anything dealing with outdoor goldfish ponds please
join us over at the new Email list.
If anyone would like to subscribe to this friendly helpful list please
follow this URL:
http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond
or you can send an email to the following address:
goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
Hope everyone enjoys our new bouncing baby list!
Trey Clark
owner/moderator

The GoldFish Store
http://www.thegoldfishstore.com
Email address: Goldfish@...

Goldfish Email lists:
Goldfish Lovers
http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishlovers
PureGold & GF list
http://lists.aquaria.net/fish/goldfish/

TEST!!!

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clark, Trey [SMTP:clat1@...]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 12:04 PM
> To: 'goldfishloverspond@onelist.com'
> Subject: [goldfishloverspond]
>
> From: "Clark, Trey" <clat1@...>
>
> Mary is among us!!!!!
>
> Hugs
>
> Trey
>
> > Community email addresses:
>   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
>   Subscribe:    goldfishloverspond-subscribe@onelist.com
>   Unsubscribe:  goldfishloverspond-unsubscribe@onelist.com
>   List owner:   goldfishloverspond-owner@onelist.com
>
> Shortcut URL to this page:
>   http://www.onelist.com/community/goldfishloverspond

Mary is among us!!!!!

Hugs

Trey

another test

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Clark, Trey [SMTP:clat1@...]
> Sent: Monday, November 29, 1999 4:11 PM
> To: 'Goldfishloverspond@onelist.com'
> Subject: [goldfishloverspond] Test
>
> From: "Clark, Trey" <clat1@...>
>
> test
>
> > Community email addresses:
>   Post message: goldfishloverspond@onelist.com
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