I too show my stock mainly from the field, there are so few shows here that
it would be more than unkind to keep the ponies in constantly. My D stallion
has been Supreme twice from the field, not even a bath just the minimal trim
up. I was once asked what I used to make his coat so shiney, I said grass,
and thats the truth. They live out all year round and are fat and happy
always. Of course when you are doing performance thats a whole different
matter.

Susan   Gallod & Carennydd Welsh
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carey Buttfield" <judaroo@...>
To: <ponies@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [WMP] Section A manes


> We have a Welsh Mountain Section A stallion who last year was running with
> his mares on our hills 48 hours before our WA All Welsh Show.  He was
> Champion Stallion with very little more than a quick trim, well since our
> seminar with John James from the Sianwood Stud we use a candle all the
time
> now.  Looks far more natural.
>
> Carey Buttfield
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Jalmond970@...>
> To: <ponies@egroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 12:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [WMP] Section A manes
>
>
> > Many of the welsh ponies in the world get shown right out of the field.
> A
> > little facial hair trimed and you are set.   We love them in the many
> > disaplins.   However,  we get lazy,  don't show in performance,   and
just
> > show breed some times.   Our ponies live out all year round.   They are
> what
> > they are.   Just adjust the feed or calories accordingly.   Isn't that
> part
> > of loving ponies.   They are much easier than horses and most times you
> can
> > grab them out of the field for an afternoon show, that morning.   And
> WE
> > Compete against the BEST.    We hold our own.   I appreciate everyone's
> > ponies.   Then I make my own decision.   It might well be some one
else's
> > pony.   Often it is.   The welsh group is a blast to show with.  We
route
> for
> > everyone involved.    JOHN
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Get a FREE "YourName.Com" Web Address,
> > E-Mail, and Home Page...TODAY! CLICK HERE!
> > http://click.egroups.com/1/5460/2/_/8775/_/960871178/
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> @Backup- Protect and Access your data any time, any where on the net.
> Try @Backup FREE and recieve 300 points from mypoints.com Install now:
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5467/2/_/8775/_/960871875/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Would someone please explain this candling process? I would like to give it
a try but don't want my pony to go up in smoke.
-----Original Message-----
From: Carey Buttfield <judaroo@...>
To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
Date: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [WMP] Section A manes


>We have a Welsh Mountain Section A stallion who last year was running with
>his mares on our hills 48 hours before our WA All Welsh Show.  He was
>Champion Stallion with very little more than a quick trim, well since our
>seminar with John James from the Sianwood Stud we use a candle all the time
>now.  Looks far more natural.
>
>Carey Buttfield

Mike

I'm NOT getting duplicate messages! Not that I want them either!!!

Regards
Kerry Geyer

I seem to remember that PacTel had a line problem over the weekend that caused
a lot of mail servers to hiccup.  This may have something to do with it.  I
have not had any dupes, so can't say for sure.

Jay E. Hubert
Coffing Oaks Welsh Ponies
Galt, CA

I drive waay too fast to worry about cholesterol!
"Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly."

Hmmm...  I'm not getting any duplicates (or triplicates either).  I think
there was some kind of trouble with the list server a while ago, but haven't
heard of any new troubles until these messages.  I'll look around, but this
does seem really strange.  Especially if Amy is getting all of her messages
duplicated.  Anybody else have any ideas?

Mike S.
Solstice Welsh Cobs
Newberry, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Jaeger [mailto:jaegerhof@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 12:40 AM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: RE: Let's Remember the Photo vaults - was: RE: [WMP] Old import
bloodlines - Vol I-II and later


I thought it was just my computer... I'm getting all my messages a few times
each, not just the ones from this list...  Weird...

Amy

-----Original Message-----
From: arthur & gail thomson [mailto:agthomson@...]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 10:41 PM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Let's Remember the Photo vaults - was: RE: [WMP] Old import
bloodlines - Vol I-II and later


Is anyone else getting every message at least twice and sometimes three
times???  What's up, Mike? (Our resident expert on strange sitings via the
internet!)




------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Submit your resume to jobs@.... Visit us at
http://click.egroups.com/1/4355/2/_/8775/_/960868091/
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We have a Welsh Mountain Section A stallion who last year was running with
his mares on our hills 48 hours before our WA All Welsh Show.  He was
Champion Stallion with very little more than a quick trim, well since our
seminar with John James from the Sianwood Stud we use a candle all the time
now.  Looks far more natural.

Carey Buttfield
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jalmond970@...>
To: <ponies@egroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2000 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [WMP] Section A manes


> Many of the welsh ponies in the world get shown right out of the field.
A
> little facial hair trimed and you are set.   We love them in the many
> disaplins.   However,  we get lazy,  don't show in performance,   and just
> show breed some times.   Our ponies live out all year round.   They are
what
> they are.   Just adjust the feed or calories accordingly.   Isn't that
part
> of loving ponies.   They are much easier than horses and most times you
can
> grab them out of the field for an afternoon show, that morning.   And
WE
> Compete against the BEST.    We hold our own.   I appreciate everyone's
> ponies.   Then I make my own decision.   It might well be some one else's
> pony.   Often it is.   The welsh group is a blast to show with.  We route
for
> everyone involved.    JOHN
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get a FREE "YourName.Com" Web Address,
> E-Mail, and Home Page...TODAY! CLICK HERE!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/5460/2/_/8775/_/960871178/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>

I thought it was just my computer... I'm getting all my messages a few times
each, not just the ones from this list...  Weird...

Amy

-----Original Message-----
From: arthur & gail thomson [mailto:agthomson@...]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 10:41 PM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: Re: Let's Remember the Photo vaults - was: RE: [WMP] Old import
bloodlines - Vol I-II and later


Is anyone else getting every message at least twice and sometimes three
times???  What's up, Mike? (Our resident expert on strange sitings via the
internet!)




------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stand out.  In B2B. In Austin. Work with clients like Dell and pcOrder.
Submit your resume to jobs@.... Visit us at
http://click.egroups.com/1/4355/2/_/8775/_/960868091/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Maybe if the registry turned to the real color genetics experts (UC at
Davis, D Philip Sponenberg, Bonnie C. Beaver, etc.) for color definitions,
backed up by scientific/genetic fact, then they might find labeling color a
little more consistent and reliable.  No one would be caught off guard with
a "wrong colored" foal from any breedings and everyone would know exactly
what everyone else means when a color is mentioned.  I think this would be
the wisest and simplest thing to do.

Amy

-----Original Message-----
From: arthur & gail thomson [mailto:agthomson@...]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 10:21 PM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins


Hey, Marsha...I didn't make the color-name rules for the WPCSA!!! Part of
the problem is that some color names mean different things to different
people and even sometimes they mean one thing for a while and then another.
The WPCSA seems to have tried to keep it simple, which is no bad thing.  For
instance, to some people "cream" means any yellow non-dun (or buckskin)
animal that isn't dark enough to be a palomino.  To others it is the color
that the palomino association thinks is palomino and to these same people
palomino is the lighter colored yellow with light m & t color.  I put a
question about this to the open forum at the AGM to see if we could sort of
standardize what we mean and everyone there had a different idea....and
these were the enthusiasts that bothered to come to an AGM to discuss
issues!  I agree you can't be grey without a grey parent (I think everyone
does) and can't imagine which registrar thought grulla was grey.  Personally
I have never seen a true Welsh that color.  I have had one or two that
SEEMED that color at birth but eventually turned black and in one case black
and then grey (real grey).  I would love seeing pictures of an ADULT Welsh
with that color.  Another problem we have is that people think the "foaling
color" means whatever they thought it was the day the foal was born.  Now
most people recognize that foals have "baby fuzz" that can be very
mis-leading.  I believe the "foaling color" is the real color that the pony
is before it greys (or else it is the color the pony will always be, if it
doesn't grey)....but I see people registering things "bay (foaled chestnut)"
which I don't believe is anything more than the baby fuzz on the legs
mis-leading them...often the black points are hard to see on a new-born.
Anyway, although I am interested in color genetics I am not an expert and
like simple rules and names.  I also have never seen but one silver dapple
in Welshdom, but I have seen lots that people wanted to call silver dapple.
So whatta we gonna' do?  Gail




------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many of the welsh ponies in the world get shown right out of the field.    A
little facial hair trimed and you are set.   We love them in the many
disaplins.   However,  we get lazy,  don't show in performance,   and just
show breed some times.   Our ponies live out all year round.   They are what
they are.   Just adjust the feed or calories accordingly.   Isn't that part
of loving ponies.   They are much easier than horses and most times you can
grab them out of the field for an afternoon show, that morning.   And    WE
Compete against the BEST.    We hold our own.   I appreciate everyone's
ponies.   Then I make my own decision.   It might well be some one else's
pony.   Often it is.   The welsh group is a blast to show with.  We route for
everyone involved.    JOHN

I'm having the same kind of problem with PtHA.  They don't recognise silver
dapple as an individual color... you have to registere the horse/pony as
either grey or chestnut.  They won't  however, let you register it as black,
which it more closely genetically resembles, which I find really
disconcerting.  Here's where a breeder could get into a bit of trouble if
the registry wanted to get technical all of a sudden.  My stallion is a true
chestnut pinto, and when bred to other chestnuts should give chestnuts...
right?  Well, my silver dapple pinto mare is regestered as "chestnut".  Of
course, their first foal turned out Bay pinto, which would be impossible if
the mare were actually chestnut.  If the PtHA registrars were sticklers for
color genetics rules, I would have had a real hassle come registration time.
I even called and asked about reclassifying my mare as black, which at least
would have been genetically closer, but they wouldn't let me.

Amy

-----Original Message-----
From: stonecroft [mailto:stonecroft@...]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:04 AM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins


To Leslie Spears: If you ever have another grulla,
please have it registered as a black dun, not grey.
You cannot have a grey pony without at least one grey
parent. There seem to be a lot of colors the WPCSA
don't think exist. Sorry Gail, but since we are so
interested in color and have to list color at foaling,
the least we could do is put the correct adult color
down on the papers. Which has always been my reason
for trying to get Talybont Shawn and his son, S. Storm
Signal registered as buckskins instead of duns. Dun
and buckskin are genetically different; dun has a line
back marking plus zebra stripes on the legs and may
also have other "primitive" markings. Also, to call a
buckskin "dun" can be misleading as there are several
diffent colors of dun, ie. red dun, black dun, etc. I
also object to calling palomino "cream". JMNSHO.

--- leslie spears <lester@...> wrote:
> Patchwork Peter Wabbit (GlanNant Adonis x Little
> Miss Charm ex GlanNant
> Tango) is a grulla.  I tried to register him as such
> but was tol there was
> no such color and was told to choose black, bay,
> grey, or chestnut.  As he
> was gelded, I didn't argue the point and put grey on
> the form.  He is still
> a "mouse" color.  His dam has produced two duns
> (buckskins) and two
> palominos besides the usual blacks, chestnuts and
> greys.  Wabbit is 22 years
> old this year and living in Illinois.  He is close
> to 14.1 hands.  Doris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Bainbridge <bainbridge@...>
> To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
> Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 6:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
>
>
> >When I say "dun" I mean it as the more techincal
> term.  The description
> >would be -- dorsal stripe (all duns must have a
> dorsal stripe, all horses
> >with dorsal stripes are not neccesarily dun!), leg
> barring, shoulder
> >patches, cobwebbing -- all to various degrees and
> many may have a dorsal
> but
> >no other characteristics.
> >
> >I would say that grulla would be a "grey/smoke dun"
> ... having that mouse
> >coloring throughout the body, along with the dun
> characteristics mentioned
> >above.  just think of a black horse thats body
> color has been diluted.
> some
> >grullas have various umbers, browns, cremes, etc.
> in the body coloring and
> >panagre but still give the impression of a mouse
> color.  many have
> >significantly darker heads, especially on the
> bridge of their nose (which
> >often makes the head look more unattractive then
> what it is).
> >
> >The Sorria breed would certainly be perfect
> examples of this coloring.
> >
> >Thomas Bainbridge
> >Shilstone Stud
> >Manistee, MI
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: susan <cc571@...>
> >To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
> >Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 6:52 PM
> >Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> >
> >
> >>Thomas
> >>
> >>Do you mean Dun as in the Welsh form of the word,
> if you do I do have a
> dun
> >>stallion and so does Anne Corden in Ontario, so
> there are two to start you
> >>off.  Can you give a detail explanation of grulla
> please.
> >>
> >>Susan Stepney
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Thomas Bainbridge"
> <bainbridge@...>
> >>To: <ponies@egroups.com>
> >>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 3:10 PM
> >>Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> >>
> >>
> >>> Greetings Again!  I just wanted to mention that
> I did speak to a color
> >>> genetic specialist and they did correct me and
> said that the dun gene
> >>> (lineback) is present in the Welsh and the
> lineback is even noted in the
> >>US
> >>> Stud books.  She did admit that it was very,
> very, uncommon.
> >>>
> >>> Now, with it established that the dun gene
> (lineback) does happen ...
> >does
> >>> anyone have any grulla Welsh?  I have never seen
> this, which reinforced
> >my
> >>> belief that dun Welsh are truly only buckskin.
> >>>
> >>> You may remember my introduction to the list
> several weeks ago and my
> >>quest
> >>> for some foundation breeding stock.  I am,
> openly, a color fancier ---
> if
> >>> all else is equal, I will pick the exotic color
> everytime.  With that in
> >>> mind, you'll see where I get my inquisitive
> nature about what colors do
> >>> exist in this breed.
> >>>
> >>> Interestingly enough, my expert sources states
> that she in unaware of
> any
> >>> dun Welsh Cobs (Section D). Any input on this?
> >>>
> >>> Again, I do want to stand corrected on my
> statements (which is why I
> >>> originally stated "I could be wrong").  I have
> enjoyed this discussion
> >and
> >>> being part of a fairly active egroup!
> >>>
> >>> Thomas Bainbridge
> >>> Shilstone Stud
> >>> Manistee, MI
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Becky Curran <welshponies_1999@...>
> >>> To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
> >>> Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:02 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> >Hello All,
> >>> > Just finally got a chance to read my email and
> found
> >>> >the buckskin/dun discussion really interesting,
> our
> >>> >stallion Kenfel Sunbird is a dun, and throws
> >>> >predominately dun offspring about 98% so
> far,out of
> >>> >all different colors including grays, he's been
> bred
> >>> >to three different grays now and all have had
> dun
> >>> >foals and not one has turned gray yet, I find
> this
> >>> >really suprising since I thought a dilute color
> would
> >>> >gray very easily.The only color we haven't
> tried yet
> >>> >is chesnut, from what all the genetics people
> tell me
> >>> >we think Sunny has what they call a creme
> dilution
> >>> >which means he could throw palomino's as well
> this
> >>> >years foal's were all dun again out of two
> grays, and
> >>> >two bays if you'd like to see them they should
> be up
> >>> >on our website shortly, but Sunnys pictures are
> up and
> >>> >running
> http://www.geocities.com/tidecreekwelsh/
> >>> >aren't colors fun!!!
> >>> >                           Cheers
> >>> >                             Becky
> >>> >--- Fox Hill Farm <foxhill@...> wrote:
> >>> >> Hi everybody,
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I have been following the dun vs. buckskin
> >>> >> conversation with great interest; I have a
> buckskin
> >>> >> yearling filly who has the "two-tone" mane
> and tail
> >>> >> that you've been describing! I thought she
> was a
> >>> >> one-of-a-kind creature; her mane and tail are
> black,
> >>> >> but have numerous white hairs in them. The
> entire
> >>> >> outer edge of her mane is white. But I had to
> laugh
> >>> >> when Susan mentioned that they call her filly
> >>> >> Cruella-- we do the same thing!
> >>> >>
> >>> >> A question, then: is there any chance that
> she will
> >>> >> outgrow this two-colored mane? I've been
> hoping that
> >>> >> somehow the white will disappear
> eventually...
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Also, does anyone know if there is a genetic
> reason
> >>> >> for this occurance? I'm interested to learn
> about
> >>> >> this-- and I'm really glad to know that this
> has
> >>> >> occured in other ponies as well-- I've been
>
=== message truncated ===


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Thomas,   I am afraid you have seen the most of Notorious thus far.   He is
at
http://www.rosmel.com
Lovely ponies and great family of people too.   I loved a great deal of these
ponies.   They trend twards the hunter market.   I bought 5.   I stand up
tall for the pure Mountain Sec A. and love the Hunter world part too.    This
is also a part  of the other A's and Sec B's.   I have used many different
Sec A Stallions over the years and studied their pedigree.  I have retained
fillies by some of the stallions to breed back.  Now,   I wonder what should
I breed this typey little mare for.    Some one to buy the welsh foal or for
me to keep the foal or for some one to purchase and really show off a pony
out of this mare.   The hunter world calls the price.   The welsh  world
call's the personal satisfaction and pride and the type of pony every body
else wants is a roll of the dice.   Just like the legnth of mane and the gift
of feathers on the ankles.
They are all a gift from above.   I unfortunately love every one of them.
That is why we  have a heard of over 50.       Love to all JOHN

Hello There,

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Thank You for your time.

Yes,  I am getting my email 3X!  Just came hime from a 3 day Welsh show and
had over 900 messages........The relized they were all repeats.

Suzan Stevens
Cuesta Ponies
----- Original Message -----
From: arthur & gail thomson <agthomson@...>
To: <ponies@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 8:40 PM
Subject: Re: Let's Remember the Photo vaults - was: RE: [WMP] Old import
bloodlines - Vol I-II and later


> Is anyone else getting every message at least twice and sometimes three
> times???  What's up, Mike? (Our resident expert on strange sitings via the
> internet!)
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Stand out.  In B2B. In Austin. Work with clients like Dell and pcOrder.
> Submit your resume to jobs@.... Visit us at
> http://click.egroups.com/1/4355/2/_/8775/_/960868091/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>

Is anyone else getting every message at least twice and sometimes three
times???  What's up, Mike? (Our resident expert on strange sitings via the
internet!)

Hey, Marsha...I didn't make the color-name rules for the WPCSA!!! Part of
the problem is that some color names mean different things to different
people and even sometimes they mean one thing for a while and then another.
The WPCSA seems to have tried to keep it simple, which is no bad thing.  For
instance, to some people "cream" means any yellow non-dun (or buckskin)
animal that isn't dark enough to be a palomino.  To others it is the color
that the palomino association thinks is palomino and to these same people
palomino is the lighter colored yellow with light m & t color.  I put a
question about this to the open forum at the AGM to see if we could sort of
standardize what we mean and everyone there had a different idea....and
these were the enthusiasts that bothered to come to an AGM to discuss
issues!  I agree you can't be grey without a grey parent (I think everyone
does) and can't imagine which registrar thought grulla was grey.  Personally
I have never seen a true Welsh that color.  I have had one or two that
SEEMED that color at birth but eventually turned black and in one case black
and then grey (real grey).  I would love seeing pictures of an ADULT Welsh
with that color.  Another problem we have is that people think the "foaling
color" means whatever they thought it was the day the foal was born.  Now
most people recognize that foals have "baby fuzz" that can be very
mis-leading.  I believe the "foaling color" is the real color that the pony
is before it greys (or else it is the color the pony will always be, if it
doesn't grey)....but I see people registering things "bay (foaled chestnut)"
which I don't believe is anything more than the baby fuzz on the legs
mis-leading them...often the black points are hard to see on a new-born.
Anyway, although I am interested in color genetics I am not an expert and
like simple rules and names.  I also have never seen but one silver dapple
in Welshdom, but I have seen lots that people wanted to call silver dapple.
So whatta we gonna' do?  Gail

Thanks for the compliment.  I love the way he moves...you can see him at
www.fortunecity.com/business/sale/958/   or the welsh web ring at meteor hill
welsh...but these are old pictures when I had first bought him and he was
about 250 lbs. underweight.  I'm still working on the weight gain program,
but he is super athletic, and i hope to add new pictures after school is out
next week..
catherine

Grooming To Win Author Susan E. Harris
   ISBN # 0684148595  to order
   jane
   Sandy Spot Acres

I  would maybe recommend to you the "kit Show Grooming The Look of a Winner
by Charlene Strickland. the ISBN# is0914327377.  I'm the manager of a book
store and Welsh ponies or books are my side lines can't have too much of
either one!
   This kit is great to put up in the barn it has 12 full color instruction
cards on trimming, braiding, what to pack for the show etc. esp nice if you
have a stable and board or children or just new to it all.
   You should be able to order it by the ISBN # if not e- mail me and I'll get
you one.
   A little pricey as it was $29.95 a few years ago.
  jane
Sandy Spot Acres

Hey Marsha, I couldn't agree MORE on this subject of calling colors. I have
a BUCKSKIN yearling. Not a dun(as he is registered)! Had a filly here that
was classed liver cream(lovely dark chocolate palomino). Society apparantly
says palomino is the color of a newly minted penny. Anyone ever had that
color? The official palomino description is that of a newly minted gold
coin.
Dreams do come true with a pony from The Oakdale Pony Stud
Now serving Central California for all your Real Estate needs.
Colleen Wing
Oakdale, CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "stonecroft" <stonecroft@...>
To: <ponies@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins


> To Leslie Spears: If you ever have another grulla,
> please have it registered as a black dun, not grey.
> You cannot have a grey pony without at least one grey
> parent. There seem to be a lot of colors the WPCSA
> don't think exist. Sorry Gail, but since we are so
> interested in color and have to list color at foaling,
> the least we could do is put the correct adult color
> down on the papers. Which has always been my reason
> for trying to get Talybont Shawn and his son, S. Storm
> Signal registered as buckskins instead of duns. Dun
> and buckskin are genetically different; dun has a line
> back marking plus zebra stripes on the legs and may
> also have other "primitive" markings. Also, to call a
> buckskin "dun" can be misleading as there are several
> diffent colors of dun, ie. red dun, black dun, etc. I
> also object to calling palomino "cream". JMNSHO.
>
> --- leslie spears <lester@...> wrote:
> > Patchwork Peter Wabbit (GlanNant Adonis x Little
> > Miss Charm ex GlanNant
> > Tango) is a grulla.  I tried to register him as such
> > but was tol there was
> > no such color and was told to choose black, bay,
> > grey, or chestnut.  As he
> > was gelded, I didn't argue the point and put grey on
> > the form.  He is still
> > a "mouse" color.  His dam has produced two duns
> > (buckskins) and two
> > palominos besides the usual blacks, chestnuts and
> > greys.  Wabbit is 22 years
> > old this year and living in Illinois.  He is close
> > to 14.1 hands.  Doris
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Bainbridge <bainbridge@...>
> > To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
> > Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 6:11 PM
> > Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> >
> >
> > >When I say "dun" I mean it as the more techincal
> > term.  The description
> > >would be -- dorsal stripe (all duns must have a
> > dorsal stripe, all horses
> > >with dorsal stripes are not neccesarily dun!), leg
> > barring, shoulder
> > >patches, cobwebbing -- all to various degrees and
> > many may have a dorsal
> > but
> > >no other characteristics.
> > >
> > >I would say that grulla would be a "grey/smoke dun"
> > ... having that mouse
> > >coloring throughout the body, along with the dun
> > characteristics mentioned
> > >above.  just think of a black horse thats body
> > color has been diluted.
> > some
> > >grullas have various umbers, browns, cremes, etc.
> > in the body coloring and
> > >panagre but still give the impression of a mouse
> > color.  many have
> > >significantly darker heads, especially on the
> > bridge of their nose (which
> > >often makes the head look more unattractive then
> > what it is).
> > >
> > >The Sorria breed would certainly be perfect
> > examples of this coloring.
> > >
> > >Thomas Bainbridge
> > >Shilstone Stud
> > >Manistee, MI
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: susan <cc571@...>
> > >To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
> > >Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 6:52 PM
> > >Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> > >
> > >
> > >>Thomas
> > >>
> > >>Do you mean Dun as in the Welsh form of the word,
> > if you do I do have a
> > dun
> > >>stallion and so does Anne Corden in Ontario, so
> > there are two to start you
> > >>off.  Can you give a detail explanation of grulla
> > please.
> > >>
> > >>Susan Stepney
> > >>----- Original Message -----
> > >>From: "Thomas Bainbridge"
> > <bainbridge@...>
> > >>To: <ponies@egroups.com>
> > >>Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 3:10 PM
> > >>Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>> Greetings Again!  I just wanted to mention that
> > I did speak to a color
> > >>> genetic specialist and they did correct me and
> > said that the dun gene
> > >>> (lineback) is present in the Welsh and the
> > lineback is even noted in the
> > >>US
> > >>> Stud books.  She did admit that it was very,
> > very, uncommon.
> > >>>
> > >>> Now, with it established that the dun gene
> > (lineback) does happen ...
> > >does
> > >>> anyone have any grulla Welsh?  I have never seen
> > this, which reinforced
> > >my
> > >>> belief that dun Welsh are truly only buckskin.
> > >>>
> > >>> You may remember my introduction to the list
> > several weeks ago and my
> > >>quest
> > >>> for some foundation breeding stock.  I am,
> > openly, a color fancier ---
> > if
> > >>> all else is equal, I will pick the exotic color
> > everytime.  With that in
> > >>> mind, you'll see where I get my inquisitive
> > nature about what colors do
> > >>> exist in this breed.
> > >>>
> > >>> Interestingly enough, my expert sources states
> > that she in unaware of
> > any
> > >>> dun Welsh Cobs (Section D). Any input on this?
> > >>>
> > >>> Again, I do want to stand corrected on my
> > statements (which is why I
> > >>> originally stated "I could be wrong").  I have
> > enjoyed this discussion
> > >and
> > >>> being part of a fairly active egroup!
> > >>>
> > >>> Thomas Bainbridge
> > >>> Shilstone Stud
> > >>> Manistee, MI
> > >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>> From: Becky Curran <welshponies_1999@...>
> > >>> To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
> > >>> Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 4:02 PM
> > >>> Subject: Re: [WMP] Duns & Buckskins
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> >Hello All,
> > >>> > Just finally got a chance to read my email and
> > found
> > >>> >the buckskin/dun discussion really interesting,
> > our
> > >>> >stallion Kenfel Sunbird is a dun, and throws
> > >>> >predominately dun offspring about 98% so
> > far,out of
> > >>> >all different colors including grays, he's been
> > bred
> > >>> >to three different grays now and all have had
> > dun
> > >>> >foals and not one has turned gray yet, I find
> > this
> > >>> >really suprising since I thought a dilute color
> > would
> > >>> >gray very easily.The only color we haven't
> > tried yet
> > >>> >is chesnut, from what all the genetics people
> > tell me
> > >>> >we think Sunny has what they call a creme
> > dilution
> > >>> >which means he could throw palomino's as well
> > this
> > >>> >years foal's were all dun again out of two
> > grays, and
> > >>> >two bays if you'd like to see them they should
> > be up
> > >>> >on our website shortly, but Sunnys pictures are
> > up and
> > >>> >running
> > http://www.geocities.com/tidecreekwelsh/
> > >>> >aren't colors fun!!!
> > >>> >                           Cheers
> > >>> >                             Becky
> > >>> >--- Fox Hill Farm <foxhill@...> wrote:
> > >>> >> Hi everybody,
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> I have been following the dun vs. buckskin
> > >>> >> conversation with great interest; I have a
> > buckskin
> > >>> >> yearling filly who has the "two-tone" mane
> > and tail
> > >>> >> that you've been describing! I thought she
> > was a
> > >>> >> one-of-a-kind creature; her mane and tail are
> > black,
> > >>> >> but have numerous white hairs in them. The
> > entire
> > >>> >> outer edge of her mane is white. But I had to
> > laugh
> > >>> >> when Susan mentioned that they call her filly
> > >>> >> Cruella-- we do the same thing!
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> A question, then: is there any chance that
> > she will
> > >>> >> outgrow this two-colored mane? I've been
> > hoping that
> > >>> >> somehow the white will disappear
> > eventually...
> > >>> >>
> > >>> >> Also, does anyone know if there is a genetic
> > reason
> > >>> >> for this occurance? I'm interested to learn
> > about
> > >>> >> this-- and I'm really glad to know that this
> > has
> > >>> >> occured in other ponies as well-- I've been
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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A quick note from a lurker...I'm enjoying all the compliments for
Notorious as one of my mares is bred to him for 2001! Makes me eager to
see the foal.

Lynn Fitzgerald
www.ExcelFarm.com

Hi Jay:

Yes the vault feature is easy to use.  I'm going to try it for some of our
new pictures so it won't take so LOONNNGGGG to download over and over and
over and over again for all the members.

Mike S.
Solstice Welsh Cobs
Newberry, FL

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay E. Hubert [mailto:jhubert@...]
Sent: Friday, June 02, 2000 1:47 AM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [WMP] Old import bloodlines - Vol I-II and later


We all seem to have forgotten the Vault feature of egroups, so I just
uploaded
the pedigree file to see what it would do, and it works just fine.  You can
see
it by going to "http://www.egroups.com/files/ponies/" and scrolling down to
find the entry BREEZE.XLS.  Click on it to open it if you have a spreadsheet
program that will recognize the ".XLS" format.

The vault feature is easy to use and is much faster than downloading a big
photo file.  Look into it!

Jay E. Hubert
Coffing Oaks Welsh Ponies
Galt, CA

I drive waay too fast to worry about cholesterol!
"Don't drive faster than your guardian angel can fly."


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Dear Laura,
  Will be great to see you and Jess, Amanda will be
thrilled, its supposed  to be in the 70's tomorrow but
I'll beleive it when I see it, right now it looks like
november YUCH!!!Amanda's riding her 4 yr old Sec C
gelding now Lascaux Tabasco and he's doing wonderfully
under saddle, we took him to the spring fling in
Spokane, Washington and he was so good he really
enjoys it.Look forward to some california sunshine
make sure you bring some with you:)
                             Becky
--- Laura San Diego <buttonwood@...> wrote:
> Hi Becky!!!
> Please tell the weather to shape up as us
> Californians that are coming to
> show at McMinniville are used to sunshine!!! Are we
> going to see you there?
> Laura San Diego
> Buttonwood Farm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Becky Curran <welshponies_1999@...>
> To: <ponies@egroups.com>
> Cc: <lascauxwelsh@...>
> Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 12:59 PM
> Subject: [WMP] Foals from Tide Creek
>
>
> Hello All,
>  Loved the discussion on manes, is very interesting
> I
> like to keep ours shaped but not hunter short, looks
> neat and tidy I think anyway heres some foal pic's a
> dun filly by Kenfel Sunbird and a bay colt by
> *Rosedale Fairy Prince hope you enjoy them, I love
> the
> babies!!!Hope everyone is having a nice summer, were
> still wet and dreary here in Oregon.
>                            Cheers
>                               Becky
>   http://www.geocities.com/tidecreekwelsh/
>
>
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Thanks for the info.  We sure like the disposition of ponies descended from
the Bowdell Buccaneer line.  Just a coincidence we named our first foal by
4-R Corsair  Windridge Cherry Blossom,  but her dam was LLoydor Cherry Red.
So we have had several with "Cherry  names over the years.
                                         Jan
                                         Windridge Welsh Ponies

----- Original Message -----

From: emurray

To: ponies@egroups.com

Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 8:51 AM

Subject: [WMP] hay nets

As haynets are still sold in almost every tack store or catalogue that I do business with and assuming that I'm not the last horse lover to find out about the dangers of haynets then perhaps you would like to go further and reccommend the safest method of feeding hay in a trailering situation. Is there a problem with the bags or is there another method out there that is even safer and can still be used effectively in a stock trailer?

 

Thanks,

 

Eve

-----Original Message-----
From: Nora Lukas <lukas@...>
To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
Date: Saturday, June 10, 2000 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: [WMP] Trailering questions

Thank you for explaining why hay nets are no longer used by most horse lovers.  As a tack dealer I won't even sell them to people.   Way too dangerous an item!!!

Nora Lukas

 have a stock trailer with a divider gate in the middle. I always use the forward compartment when I am trailering a single pony. When I took my yearling to Spring Fling, I heavily bedded with shavings and the colt rode loose. When I take my grade gelding or my little cob they are both tied but they are still free to move around and choose what position they want to assume to maintain balance.

I learned a very valuable lesson at Spring Fling. As we were leaving the show grounds, the trailer started to rock and jump horribly. I went back to see what the problem was and found that the colt had gotten one foreleg caught in the hay net. I always tie those things as high as I can but Jasper is so small that he has to rear to see out and I'm assuming that is how he got it in there. Anyhow just as I got the ramp down he freed himself and no damage done but that is the last time I use one of those things. For the ride home I emptied the hay onto the shavings and that is what I will do for Jasper from now on. I guess I'll do haybags for the bigger ponies unless someone else has a better suggestion.

Eve

-----Original Message-----
From: Fox Hill Farm <foxhill@...>
To: ponies@egroups.com <ponies@egroups.com>
Date: Friday, June 09, 2000 10:16 PM
Subject: [WMP] Trailering questions

Hello,

I am looking for some advice on trailering as we are new at it... I'm wondering whether it's best to tie your ponies or leave them untied while transporting?

Also, is it all right to place a stallion next to a mare in a trailer, or does that pose potential problems?

Any advice would be gratefully received!

Thanks so much,

Samantha Johnson
Miracle Welsh
foxhill@...

---

---

---

---

---

---

Hi Becky!!!
Please tell the weather to shape up as us Californians that are coming to
show at McMinniville are used to sunshine!!! Are we going to see you there?
Laura San Diego
Buttonwood Farm

----- Original Message -----
From: Becky Curran <welshponies_1999@...>
To: <ponies@egroups.com>
Cc: <lascauxwelsh@...>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 12:59 PM
Subject: [WMP] Foals from Tide Creek


Hello All,
  Loved the discussion on manes, is very interesting I
like to keep ours shaped but not hunter short, looks
neat and tidy I think anyway heres some foal pic's a
dun filly by Kenfel Sunbird and a bay colt by
*Rosedale Fairy Prince hope you enjoy them, I love the
babies!!!Hope everyone is having a nice summer, were
still wet and dreary here in Oregon.
                            Cheers
                               Becky
   http://www.geocities.com/tidecreekwelsh/


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Dear Jan,
  Lanes Cherry Blossom is by Bucaneer, I have a full
sibling to Debbies Stallion, her name is Lanes Brown
Sugar and I'm very fond of Cherry Blossoms offspring
allmost all my broodmares are centered around her,
she's really something to see, glad to hear of other
fans of *Bowdell Bucaneer lines I saw your stallion at
the AGM he was the chesnut roan that Jessica San Diego
was riding, he was very nice.
                        Becky
--- windridgewelsh@... wrote:
> Debbie,
>     Is Lane's Cherry Blossom by Bowdell Buccaneer ?
> I just wondered , I
> don't have a set of stud books to look it up in.  My
> senior herd stallion is
> double bred  Bowdell Buccaner and has a similar look
> to your guy.
>                                     Jan
>                                     Windridge Welsh
> Ponies
>


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Hello All,
  Loved the discussion on manes, is very interesting I
like to keep ours shaped but not hunter short, looks
neat and tidy I think anyway heres some foal pic's a
dun filly by Kenfel Sunbird and a bay colt by
*Rosedale Fairy Prince hope you enjoy them, I love the
babies!!!Hope everyone is having a nice summer, were
still wet and dreary here in Oregon.
                            Cheers
                               Becky
   http://www.geocities.com/tidecreekwelsh/


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Debbie,
     Is Lane's Cherry Blossom by Bowdell Buccaneer ?  I just wondered , I
don't have a set of stud books to look it up in.  My senior herd stallion is
double bred  Bowdell Buccaner and has a similar look to your guy.
                                     Jan
                                     Windridge Welsh Ponies

Susan Harris wrote Grooming to win . She also does Centered riding clinics
and is a superb artist.
----- Original Message -----
From: <kblacklea@...>
To: <ponies@egroups.com>
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [WMP] Re:Tina Turner


> Oops - just remembered that Susan Conant is the dog show mystery writer:)
> Can't remember the grooming book author
>
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What a GREAT story Amy!  Thanks for the laugh.

  -----Original Message-----
From:  Amy Corson [mailto:kelviden@...]
Sent: Monday, June 12, 2000 12:11 PM
To: ponies@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [WMP] Manes, Coed Coch Siwan, Coed Coch Sucr and Wyn
Jones - Reply

OK....the whole story.  The New York State Horse
Breeders show decided to add a pair class at the last
minute.  I believe it was 1983.  Claudia rode her pony
Bristol Salome with my sister Catherine on GlanNant
Serenade.  My friend Liz Merman rode Riarm Cricket
with me on Aquila Sacharine.  "Sugar"  as Claudia
called her was barely broken to saddle and was mainly
used as a driving pony.  She did carry young Gretchen
Novak around in the leadline.
My mother and I were just discussing last night, that
it was probably not the wisest thing she ever let me
do, but nonetheless I was fearless.
"Sugar" was ok in the warm up ring, but we soon
discovered that driving and leadline ponies do not
readily pick up the canter!
In to the big scary coliseum we went.  Once in the
ring, "Sugar"  got so nervous that I lost all control.
  She frantically chased her stable mate "Sally" around
the ring.  When "Sally"  walked, "Sugar walked....when
"Sally" trotted "Sugar" trotted, and yes when "Sally
cantered, "Sugar" did something resembling a canter
but it really felt more like a fast frantic hop.  I
had no control whatsoever!  Liz who was riding my
pair, just had to keep up.  I had no hope of trying to
stay with her.
I'm sure we were quite the sight.  Two little ten year
olds in pigtails frantically zooming around the ring
weaving in and out of all the sadllebreds!
Well the judge either took pity on us or thought we
were too cute to resist....we won.
So proud were we...we walked up to get our blue
ribbons and our HUGE silver trophies!  Well Sugar
handled the cantering...but there was no way she was
going near that big shiny thing.  I reached out to get
the trophy just as the coliseum lights hit the
surface.  "Sugar" bolted.  And yes I am proud to say
as ever good horseman should I dropped that pony, and
hung on to my precious silver platter!
Well what followed was the longest few minutes of my
life.  Sitting there on the arena floor, clinging to
my trophy.  All those snazzy saddle bred people
staring down at me, the pesky little kid that had just
beaten them after cutting them off everytime around
the ring.
My sister finally climbed off of "Serenade" and came
over to see if I was OK.  I have a feeling I said yes
I was fine and so was my trophy!

Somewher I have a abeautiful picture of us doing our
victory lap.  I'll enclose it soon.  Please note that
I am a little dirty and am no longer carrying that
trophy.
Amy Corson
Kelviden Farm

ps...Thanks Claudia for the memories!
--- Sarah Lang <sarahlang@...> wrote:
>
> Amy,
> I was going to answer the question, but I thought
> I'd wait and see if you
> volunteered any information.  I remember those two
> following Calcar and
> Fantasy(?) all over the warm up ring.  Too funny!!
>
> From: Amy Corson <kelviden@...>
> Reply-To: ponies@egroups.com
> To: ponies@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [WMP] Manes, Coed Coch Siwan, Coed Coch
> Sucr and Wyn Jones -
> Reply
> Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 02:11:08 -0400
>
> Claudia,
>      The pony who went in the pairs class with Sugar
>  was Riarm Cricket and
> if you're
> going to tell the whole story you might as well just
> tell everyone that I
> fell off as
> we were presented with our large silver trophy.  I
> was only about ten and
> I'm still
> in therapy over the embarassment!
> Amy Corson
> Kelviden Farm
>
> Claudia Novak wrote:
>
>  > Hi Joost,
>  >         <<3) To people on this side of the ocean,
> where did Sucr go? I
> haven't
>  > heard
>  > much of her.>>
>  >         Coed Coch Sucr went to Aquila Farm,
> Diedre Pirie, Hamilton, MA.
> Jean
>  > Shemilt had her in her last years on lease from
> Diedre.  For years, I had
>  > her daughter, Aquila Saccharin who was by Clan
> Dash (Clan Tony x Clan
> Dot).
>  > I think "Sugar" as we called her was Dash's last
> daughter.  She is
> currently
>  > owned by the Herger family and had several lovely
> daughters by Lithgow
>  > Houdini (Sylvia's Comet x Magic by CC Madog).
> She stamps all her get
> with
>  > her lovely head with her huge eye and somewhat
> mischievous ways.  The
> grass
>  > is always greener on the other side of the fence
> that can be climbed
> under
>  > or jumped over. She is a VERY tall (in her mind)
> 11.2 hands.  She is
>  > currently on lease to Marsha Himler.
>  >         "Sugar" has been both a great producer
> and a great child's pony.
> She was
>  > my daughter Gretchen's leading rein pony for
> years plus being a very good
>  > driving pony.  She spent a couple of years at the
> Kentucky Horse Park as
> the
>  > Welsh Sec. A pony where she put on daily driving
> demonstrations.
>  > Altogether, I would have to say she is one of the
> best Welsh we have
> owned.
>  > She taught my daughter and the Herger's daughter,
> Rachel, many meaningful
>  > lesson about what Welsh are all about.
>  >         She made her 'riding debut' with Amy
> Corson on her at New York
> State
>  > Breeders in the coliseum many years ago. Amy
> decided that she wanted to
> ride
>  > pairs with another lovely Sec. A mare of Mollie
> Butler's who names
> escapes
>  > me (Amy help me here).  "Sugar" had never been
> ridden off the leading
> rein
>  > up until that day. "Sugar" went out with the
> other mare and won the
> 'pairs
>  > class' against all comers.  I still have that
> picture!  Memories.  Yours,
>  > Claudia Novak, Fletcher Hill Farm, Dunstable, MA
>  >
>  >
>
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