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article of interest   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #235371 of 252599 |
RE: [weimaraner] article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

Sylvia - Thanks for taking the time to tell me about it. I guess I have heard it all before though. The sad thing is that there are no statistics about cross bred dogs because no one cares enough about them. The close breedings - if done experimentally - can tell us a lot more about the evils lurking behind our dogs - much more than the small amount of information which is available about cross breds. One of the books I read did do some experiments by breeding several generations of Cocker Spaniels to Basenjis (maybe the "Breeding Better Dogs" book by Onstott). They came up with many really wierd characteristics in mixing those breeds together and then breeding them to each other.  The PeTA people here have been talking against line breeding for a long time - but how else can you get pointing dogs? or Seeing Eye dogs? without breeding the outstanding talented dogs to each other? We haven't been doing close breeding with people but still come up with many problems, so I just don't think that argument against pure breds has much validity. I took a course in genetics in college many years ago. The example I remember best was in inbreeding mice (sisters to brothers). At about the 4th or 5th generations they mice were quite weak and subject to many health problems but the experimenters kept doing it. By the 7th generation all of the best qualities returned and they were producing super mice. The secret was in breeding the best to the best, and I think MAYBE that is what should be done with dogs. We are just taking a long time to get there by linebreeding instead.
 
Now you have my humble opinion.
 
Thanks again for telling me what I missed out on -
 
Karen
 

 

Please visit the Kasamar web site at http://vip.hyperusa.com/~sandvold/ 

Trinity Valley Weimaraner Club web site 

http://www.trinityvalleyweimcluboftexas.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sylvia Voorn
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 4:31 PM
To: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [weimaraner] article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

Hi Karen,

They talk about the many genetic problems in dogs.

And about (taking the most extreme) cosmetic changes of dog breeds over the years.

And what kind of effect that has on the health of dogs.

And how ignorant people are with genetic diseases.

For example the Cavalier King Charles Spaniels who’s scull is too small for the brain, (don’t know how the diseases is named)

Wherefore dogs who suffer from it have a lot of pain. You must imagine then a full day of a real bad headache.

Even people who know who’s dogs is diagnosed with the same disease they still let the stud be used for breeding.

And that dog also wins Best in Show’s. In fact the dog diagnosed with the diseases has had 26 litters after diagnosed with the disease. Even all breeders know that and still use him.

And that the Kennel Club has to do more about that kind of things. That dogs with inherited diseases cannot be shown.

Also of course the German Shepherd about the back and that it is not health. The short nosed dogs.

But also dog breeds who suffer from other inherited diseases like epilepsy and more.

Very confronting with how it is in real life!! Because I know it is in every breed that people put the showprices priority to health!!!

Sylvia (Holland)

http://www.mysticalshadows.nl (Update 11 August 2008)
Weimaraner Pedigree Database http://www.weimaranerpedigrees.com (Currently over 110.000 Weimaraners online. New database online! More info and more options)

Van: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com] Namens karen sandvold
Verzonden: zondag 24 augustus 2008 20:27
Aan: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: RE: [weimaraner] article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

I can't see you tube stuff as I am o slow dial up. Can you please tell me what it says?

Karen

Please visit the Kasamar web site at http://vip.hyperusa.com/~sandvold/ 

Trinity Valley Weimaraner Club web site 

http://www.trinityvalleyweimcluboftexas.com

-----Original Message-----
From: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sylvia Voorn
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2008 1:03 PM
To: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [weimaraner] article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

In total it is an hour the docu.

So take the time if you want to look at it.

And sound is be necessary too.

Sylvia (Holland)

http://www.mysticalshadows.nl (Update 11 August 2008)
Weimaraner Pedigree Database http://www.weimaranerpedigrees.com (Currently over 110.000 Weimaraners online. New database online! More info and more options)

Van: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com] Namens Sylvia Voorn
Verzonden: zondag 24 augustus 2008 20:00
Aan: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: RE: [weimaraner] article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

Did anybody see the docu of pedigreed dogs exposed??

I want to warn for very shocking parts in it!!

For me not new to see / hear this. For many people in the showworld success goes above health!

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1LyjlX4Mp8

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcUbCvS0ZEM&feature=related

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpR5su-PQ0g&feature=related

Part 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDKwbWA5Tdg&feature=related

Part 5: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szl30xomLXo&feature=related

Part 6: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFJffepQY3Y&feature=related

Though the Weimaraner has not have (yet?) so many cosmetic problems, I know there are many other diseases which has to be taken care of more than is done now.!

Sylvia (Holland)

http://www.mysticalshadows.nl (Update 11 August 2008)
Weimaraner Pedigree Database http://www.weimaranerpedigrees.com (Currently over 110.000 Weimaraners online. New database online! More info and more options)

Van: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com] Namens j.beaven
Verzonden: vrijdag 22 augustus 2008 1:54
Aan: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Onderwerp: [weimaraner] article of interest

For those who bemoan the attacks on pedigree dog breeding this article makes interesting reading

Go to:-

terrierman.com.blogspot....08/bbc-pedigree-dogs-exposed.html

Hit    Home page for this blog.

           Cec.



Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:50 pm

sandvold2001
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Message #235371 of 252599 |
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Hi Karen, They talk about the many genetic problems in dogs. And about (taking the most extreme) cosmetic changes of dog breeds over the years. And what kind...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
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Aug 24, 2008
9:30 pm

Sylvia - Thanks for taking the time to tell me about it. I guess I have heard it all before though. The sad thing is that there are no statistics about cross...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 24, 2008
10:50 pm

Thanks for your answer Karen and Billie, I must say I am quiet disappointed in how less people react and give their opinion. It say me more than enough. Of...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
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Aug 25, 2008
8:52 pm

My newest Ch. is the daughter of a mother to son breeding. Her hips are OFA Excellent, she has no allergies, and she is very healthy. I have done half sister...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 26, 2008
12:46 am

How do you know how healthy she is inside? What kind of genetic defects does she cary? My dogs are also good in the hips and excellent in the showring but are...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
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Aug 26, 2008
10:25 am

And where do these flaws come from? They had to be there in the first place even though they are hidden. We don't make children with our sons because it is...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 26, 2008
4:54 pm

Yes they are there, there are many defect genes carried by people and by dogs. And sure we can have bad luck we combine them in human as well But where we want...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
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Aug 26, 2008
7:35 pm

This article I already sended earlier to the list, but here again. With thanks to Anne who helped me translating it to English Rise of Dog Breeds People and...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
Online Now Send Email
Aug 26, 2008
9:21 pm

This article I already sended earlier to the list, but here again. With thanks to Anne who helped me translating it to English Rise of Dog Breeds People and...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
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Aug 26, 2008
9:59 pm

Thought provoking article, Sylvia! Right on the money IMO. Thanks for re-sending. I hadn't seen it before. Michelle Sylvia Voorn <sylvia_voorn@...>...
Michelle Nowacki
zephanja1
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Aug 27, 2008
1:32 am

Sylvia, please cite the origin of the article - publication, author, date, etc. Thanks, Liz ... ************** It's only a deal if it's where you want to go....
ERaiman2@...
eraiman
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Aug 27, 2008
5:01 am

I've only watched part of it and there are certainly many, many health problems to address. But this to me sounds very much like AR driven, bias info to blame...
Billie Thompson
degen45102
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Aug 24, 2008
10:36 pm

No, this isn't AR bias at all. I have watched the film from start to finish and I know the producer of the film and have spoken to her at great length (And...
Mike Ede
bigmikeatsra
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Aug 26, 2008
9:11 am

And just because some says it's detrimental to line breed doesn't mean it is any more detrimental than breeding one breed to another where you may have hidden...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 26, 2008
3:55 pm

Karen, Does that mean you cull all the unhealthy pups? I have less of a problem with linebreeding if the breeder is completely honest with themselves and...
Mike Ede
bigmikeatsra
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Aug 26, 2008
9:57 am

You don't know till later which pups may be flawed in most cases. That's where the limited (no breeding) registrations come in. You don't have to cull babies -...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 26, 2008
4:14 pm

I agree with you Sylvia! Yes, the report was biased toward the anti-pedigree dog people but they did bring up some important points that every breeder would do...
Lynn Stacey
lstace4
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Aug 26, 2008
1:04 pm

One thing that people may find interesting about the producer (especially those who dismiss her as an AR nut) is the she owns and works flat coated retrievers,...
Mike Ede
bigmikeatsra
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Aug 26, 2008
2:09 pm

One thing that people may find interesting about the producer (especially those who dismiss her as an AR nut) is the she owns and works flat coated retrievers,...
Lynn Stacey
lstace4
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Aug 26, 2008
2:50 pm

Karen, The fall out from close line breeding isn't only bringing out "hidden" genetic defects, inbreeding depression caused by a lack of genetic variety is...
Mike Ede
bigmikeatsra
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Aug 27, 2008
7:57 am

Having watched this program when it aired I think the main point of it was that we have as show breeders gone from breeding dogs for function first and form...
Tasha
tashaphillips
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Aug 27, 2008
6:48 pm

The KC webcast reply... http://www.webchats.tv/chats/Petcare/wwwthekennelcluborguk/ ... what ... originally ... used ... cripples ... them. ... the ... ...
Tasha
tashaphillips
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Aug 28, 2008
6:15 pm

As a non-breeder, I will admit to not being aware of allergies and intolerance's to food or vax in dogs 25 years ago.  Were there less allergies and...
WEIMARSNLAB
woofs3in18103
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Aug 27, 2008
12:33 pm

"Honesty about health, the overall lack of working ability, popular sire syndrome, etc. is what we need to be discussing." AMEN! ... From:...
Mike Ede
bigmikeatsra
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Aug 28, 2008
7:55 am

And we are back where I started, where on not many responding came......... So if ever things will change..... Sylvia (Holland) http://www.mysticalshadows.nl...
Sylvia Voorn
laramischa
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Aug 28, 2008
8:15 am

Anne the blue really was just a point to be made its an american problem which fair enough you have to accept as its firmly fixed within your own breeding but...
Tasha
tashaphillips
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Aug 28, 2008
3:17 pm

Tasha, I am sympathetic to the issues you raise from the international perspective. I only urge that you look to what played out in the US with the Blues....
anne_taguchi
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Aug 28, 2008
4:42 pm

Right on. Barbara A. ... From: "anne_taguchi" <anne@...> To: <weimaraner@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 12:42 PM ...
Barbara
bay_boyus
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Aug 28, 2008
5:19 pm

Ditto..  Cam ... From: Barbara <rback@...> Subject: Re: [weimaraner] Re: article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed To: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com ...
camille rice
timberdoodle05
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Aug 28, 2008
10:34 pm

“We would rather you classified the dogs as a different breed so that it stands a chance of being looked after and so that the Weimaraner breed as it stands...
Reneé Viehmann
litlone873
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Aug 28, 2008
5:26 pm
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