And we are back where I started, where on not many responding
came.........
So if ever things will change.....

Sylvia (Holland)
http://www.mysticalshadows.nl (Update 11 August 2008)
Weimaraner Pedigree Database http://www.weimaranerpedigrees.com
(Currently over 110.000 Weimaraners online. New database online! More
info and more options)

--- In weimaraner@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Ede" <mikeede@...> wrote:
>
> "Honesty about health, the overall lack of working ability, popular
> sire syndrome, etc. is what we need to be discussing."
>
> AMEN!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com] On
> Behalf Of anne@...
> Sent: 28 August 2008 08:01
> To: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [weimaraner] Re: article of interest / pedigreed dogs
exposed
>
> > Can the same be said of the Weimaraner??? We have a Blue that
doesn't
> > exist other than from American stock outside the odd incident
which is
>
> > said to have been a cross breed anyway, this is OUR easy to point
at
> > error. Health aside, the breeding of that dog into the gene pool
was
> > not for the benefit longterm of the breed but the consequence can
be
> > seen far and wide with exported studs.
>
> Tasha,
>
> When I first read this I didn't quite understand what you were
getting
> at, but I think I realize that your concern is over the recent Blue
> exports into your country. I understand that concern, although I am
not
> sure what it has to do with the topic, except perhaps your point is
that
> people in your country are now breeding for color alone. However, I
do
> have to clarify that the issue did not arise from the first Blue dog
> (regardless of whether he was crossbred or not, we will never know).
> That first Blue dog was arguably quality dog, especially since he
was
> used to correct the hunting problems in the breed. Before the DQ
many
> old timers remember when there were quality Blues around. Some of
those
> dogs ended up being foundation dogs for some very well regarded
kennels.
> It was the DQ that caused the unintended consequence which we all
> struggle with today. In my opinion, this is no longer a matter of
cross
> bred or not; that is inconsequential, and I would even argue it may
have
> been a good thing.
>
> In answer to your question of whether the same can be said of the
> Weimaraner, I would answer YES. I know many people who bought Weims
for
> their pretty blue coat color but also those that bought them for
their
> pretty GRAY coat color as well, not for their unique working
ability. I
> know many Weims who are sought after soley for their show ring
winning
> records as well. I did not see the program, but I'd say that if
people
> are serious about being caretakers of the breed, which, like it or
not,
> now includes the Blues, then positive steps must be taken to
encourage
> responsible breeding and the understanding and protection of the
breed
> as a hunting dog. I hope that in the UK and other countries who are
now
> seeing Blues coming into their country and are rightfully concerned
will
> look at what played out in the US with the DQ'ing of the Blues. They
> were left in the hands of those that cared nothing for stewardship.
It
> didn't make the Blues go away.
>
> I agree with your point about poor breeding choices made based on
show
> ring wins, and I agree that a fundamental aspect of protecting a
breed
> is by being aware of and honoring that breed's function. To me, this
> point you are making is an issue that transcends the whole Blue
> argument, which has a 70 year history in our breed. A Weimaraner is
> defined by it's unique working abilities and character. Color, hair
> length, in this age of DNA testing and understanding of simple
Mendelian
> genetics makes the whole argument moot. Honesty about health, the
> overall lack of working ability, popular sire syndrome, etc. is
what we
> need to be discussing.
>
> Anne
>
> > Posted by: "Tasha" [LINK: mailto:tashaphillips@...
> > <mailto:tashaphillips%40hotmail.com> ?Subject=
> > Re%3A%20article%20of%20interest%20%2F%20pedigreed%20dogs%
20exposed]
> > tashaphillips@... <mailto:tashaphillips%40hotmail.com> [LINK:
> > http://profiles.yahoo.com/tashaphillips
> > <http://profiles.yahoo.com/tashaphillips> ] tashaphillips
> >
> > Wed Aug 27, 2008 11:48 am (PDT)
> > Having watched this program when it aired I think the main point
of it
>
> > was that we have as show breeders gone from breeding dogs for
function
>
> > first and form second to form first in the eye of the beholder. A
> > beholder that at times has absolutely no idea about what is
needed for
>
> > the dog to be able to do the job that it was originally bred for.
> >
> > The alsations were a prime example, here is a strong working dog
used
> > by police forces around the globe and yet look at the mess the
show
> > breeders have done to the breed... dogs which are basically
cripples
> > in the back end and yet in the ring this is what is sought after,
> > prized and awarded, new people coming into the breed don't know
any
> > difference and so are making the problem worse. It was a good
example
> > because when you look at the remaining working dogs, which are
> > reducing so drastically that our police force have had to look
> > elsewhere for new stock, they do not resemble the dogs in the
ring,
> > the dogs in the ring could not do the job that is required of
them.
> > In that area as breeders and enthusiasts WE have failed, we have
> > failed to protect a breed, we have breed but not for the good of
the
> > breed.
> >
> > Can the same be said of the Weimaraner??? We have a Blue that
doesn't
> > exist other than from American stock outside the odd incident
which is
>
> > said to have been a cross breed anyway, this is OUR easy to point
at
> > error. Health aside, the breeding of that dog into the gene pool
was
> > not for the benefit longterm of the breed but the consequence can
be
> > seen far and wide with exported studs.
> >
> > Health well our breed is no angel and neither are all of our
breeders
> > we over breed on popular studs, finding out information on health
can
> > be like pulling teeth or blood from a stone and the majority of
our
> > dogs are derived from show wins rather than field work so the
> > possibility of failing our breed from breeding for purpose and
> > function to breeding to the eye of the beholder.
> >
> > When is winning more important than the future of the breed????
And at
>
> > what cost??
> >
> > The program has given us an opportunity to take a very close look
at
> > our breeds, to reassess our breeding best practises and to
question
> > our own ethics with regard to our own lines. A chance to be
honest
> > about the problems we have and how to correct them.
> >
> > No one likes to admit they have a problem and you can't stop
people
> > from breeding from your stock once they leave your home,
certainly not
>
> > in the UK but maybe its a good thing this program was aired. It
was
> > one sided and made the KC look a twit but it wont be the only
> > governing body that has that title.
>