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article of interest   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #235475 of 252599 |
RE: [weimaraner] Re: article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

I guess that would depend on what genes always accompany certain colors. There's more than one genetic white - there's albino white which we know is not healthy, then there is the white gene of the Great Pyrenees (and other white breeds) which is fine and healthy. Actually, the white German Shepherd  (or American White Shepherd) is a fine healthy dog but morons who spread the rumors that white is always unhealthy (thinking albino) spoiled it for the GSD. Blue merle (if doubled up on) has caused a lot of vets to consider blue an unhealthy color, but color is certainly not  one of a vet's subjects of expertise, so many of them have jumped to the conclusion that anything called blue is unhealthy. If the fanciers of chocolate Labs have let their penchant for that color get out of hand and bred for color while ignoring temperament, then I find it hard to believe that the color itself has anything to do with the problem since all three colors can show up in one litter. Please don't tell me that when that happens, the yellows and blacks are fine gentle dogs but the choclates have bad temperaments. Same for the cockers. Offhand, I can only think of a couple of colors that are actually related to anything detrimental - blue merles when doubled up on, albino, harlequin, and possibly brindle. Three of these are not actually color related but pattern related, and then only when doubled up on. I don't understand albino but I believe it to be an absence of color rather than the presence of one. Maybe Jackie Isabell's book on genetics should be required reading for anyone who wants to breed dogs. I think the world of dogs would be much better off if some education in canine genetics were studied by the people who wanted to participate.
Karen
 

 

Please visit the Kasamar web site at http://vip.hyperusa.com/~sandvold/ 

Trinity Valley Weimaraner Club web site 

http://www.trinityvalleyweimcluboftexas.com

 

-----Original Message-----
From: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Michelle Nowacki
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:35 PM
To: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [weimaraner] Re: article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

Hi Karen,
 
What about those breeds that have non-accepted color choices in which those colors are not healthy or have an increased risk of health issues - such as the white dobe, the fawn(?) great dane, the liver spotted dalmation OR for those breeds that do have accepted color choices, I have heard (unsubstantiated) that the chocolate lab has increased "temperament" issues as compared to the black and yellow.  Also supposedly seen in the black cocker spaniel.
 
Seems these, sometimes rare, color choices catch top dollar.......
 
I'm not saying the Blue Weim has these issues, just saying that color, when looked at just for it's color, can sometimes be a detriment to the breed as a whole.
 
Michelle

karen sandvold <sandvold@hpnc.com> wrote:
Question: Has allowing more than one color actually hurt any breed? English Setters? Labs? Pointers? Springers? It's the show conformation that has separated the show dogs from the field dogs - color had nothing to do with it.
Karen
 
 
Please visit the Kasamar web site at http://vip.hyperusa.com/~sandvold/ 
Trinity Valley Weimaraner Club web site 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com [mailto:weimaraner@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Steve Graham
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 5:30 PM
To: weimaraner@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [weimaraner] Re: article of interest / pedigreed dogs exposed

If conformation competition is so bad for the breed's hunting ability,
why isn't the short-haired dog kept out as well?

--- In weimaraner@yahoogroups.com, "Barbara" <rback@...> wrote:
>
> I think that we should really, really be grateful to the WCA and the
AKC that the blue and the LH are disqualified from competing in
conformation. Can you just imagine what would happen--the blue would
lose any natural hunting ability it has and the LH would go the way of
the Irish Setter. Devil's advocatress ;>))
>
> Barbara A.
>




Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:12 am

sandvold2001
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Message #235475 of 252599 |
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Hi Karen, What about those breeds that have non-accepted color choices in which those colors are not healthy or have an increased risk of health issues - such...
Michelle Nowacki
zephanja1
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Aug 28, 2008
11:35 pm

I guess that would depend on what genes always accompany certain colors. There's more than one genetic white - there's albino white which we know is not...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 29, 2008
12:12 am

Karen, Good points. I most definitely don't know all of the genetics behind some of these issues accompanying color - maybe some that exhibit unhealthy traits...
Michelle Nowacki
zephanja1
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Aug 29, 2008
12:21 am

I thought this site was a good explanation of doubling up on Blue Merle in the case of Aussies anyway, and shows why it should be left up to experienced...
Chip Taylor
chipper98404
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Aug 29, 2008
1:45 am

Yes - merle to merle can be disastrous (red or blue). Blind, deaf, even no eyes at all. It's not the color though. It is the merle pattern it is linked to. As...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 29, 2008
6:31 am

Karen, A friend of mine who is a Guide Dogs for the Blind puppy raiser told me that they do not use the Chocolates in the program. They have had a low success ...
Chip Taylor
chipper98404
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Aug 29, 2008
1:50 am

... English ... has ... with ... Good point, Karen Note the growing popularity of some European hunting breeds in the U.S. that are not AKC breeds and thus...
Steve Graham
sdgrahamap
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Aug 28, 2008
11:51 pm

I just got home from a trip to PetSmart to get my dog food and already on the shelves are brand new books titled Labradoodles, Goldendoodles, etc. - about 10...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 28, 2008
10:48 pm

In some respects this was the response that I was expecting and it proves a point, here is a fault that can be seen and easily resolve, bred out if you want...
Lynn Stacey
lstace4
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Aug 28, 2008
8:56 pm

Good post, Lynn. In addition, hip dysplasia, allergies, etc. are not DQs but the color or hair length is. Have we no common sense? Karen Please visit the...
karen sandvold
sandvold2001
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Aug 28, 2008
10:48 pm

Steve (aka Devil's Advocate) said <<The glorious taste of that forbidden fruit finds favor among many. We might condemn such practices, but market forces are...
Mara Wildfeuer
marajwildfeuer
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Aug 28, 2008
10:03 pm

I'm not saying the Blue Weim has these issues, just saying that color, when looked at just for it's color, can sometimes be a detriment to the breed as a...
Lynn Stacey
lstace4
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Sep 2, 2008
2:24 pm

Michelle is not wrong, but the comment is somewhat misleading. The color we call "blue" in the Weimaraner really a dilute black) is dominant. Most breeding...
Steve Graham
sdgrahamap
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Sep 2, 2008
3:17 pm

Good points, Steve, and very true. Bring on the longhairs! Michelle Steve Graham <sdgraham@...> wrote: Michelle is not wrong, but the comment is...
Michelle Nowacki
zephanja1
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Sep 2, 2008
4:27 pm

Hi Lynn, So you've read Temple's book, too! I'm still in the process of reading it. Very interesting reading! I keep switching between books and...
Michelle Nowacki
zephanja1
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Sep 2, 2008
3:22 pm

I have read her book twice now and although she does list white as a trouble color, she doesn't mention that there are different genetic whites. For example -...
Karen Sandvold
sandvold2001
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Sep 2, 2008
6:36 pm

Me too  and I found it very interesting for sure.  Lot's of common sense there.  Cam ... From: Michelle Nowacki <zephanja1@...> Subject: RE:...
camille rice
timberdoodle05
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Sep 2, 2008
10:10 pm

Check out lethalwhites.com for a pretty good discussion of white in dogs. In dogs there's really not a "true" lethal white as there is in horses. Lethal White...
jeristep@...
jeristep
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Sep 2, 2008
6:54 pm

Having a dear friend in Shelties, I have to disagree a little. If you breed a merle to a merle, you can get white blind and deaf puppies - even puppies with no...
Karen Sandvold
sandvold2001
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Sep 3, 2008
1:07 am

This is also true in Australian Shepherds. Merle to merle can become lethal white. Anne ... This is also true in Australian Shepherds. Merle to merle can...
Anne McCulloch
slvrcrst
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Sep 3, 2008
11:21 am

I didn't know there was lethal white in dogs. A friend of mine has a beautiful paint stallion that carries the lethal white gene. She only breeds him to non...
Mary Beth Hall
fcdreams
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Sep 3, 2008
12:22 pm

From everything I've read, the term lethal white in dogs is a misnomer (even if it's not, it really gets Aussie people worked up), because, even with all the...
jeristep@...
jeristep
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Sep 3, 2008
1:16 pm

The studies Jeri referred to are very interesting. TA&M is doing some significant research into color. Among other things they've found pigmentation follows...
Judy Mitchell
erbenhof
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Sep 3, 2008
2:22 pm

That was a topic and link I brought up on a closed list a while back. It also has to do with spots on the chest, belly, toes and pasterns, as that is the last...
Bethany
weims4bethany
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Sep 4, 2008
12:07 pm

Correction, last phrase should have read, "NOT just heridity". Bethany Manderson Forester Weimaraners Canada ... back. ... pasterns, as ... there ... just ... ...
Bethany
weims4bethany
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Sep 4, 2008
5:08 pm

Red pencil time - H E R E D I T Y. Not heridity. (tee hee) Karen Trinity Valley Weimaraner Club web site http://www.trinityvalleyweimcluboftexas.com ... From:...
Karen Sandvold
sandvold2001
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Sep 4, 2008
6:25 pm

Haaaa! I kill me! Thanks Karen. (honestly, I did spell check and it zoomed right by it). heredity heredity heredity ;<) B....
Bethany
weims4bethany
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Sep 4, 2008
11:52 pm

Thanks for posting that link to Dr. Schmutz's work. It's great stuff! Did you know her husband is the Breed Warden for the Large Munsterlander Club of North...
jeristep@...
jeristep
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Sep 4, 2008
6:48 pm

I wasn't aware, thanks for the info. She was kind enough to answer some of my questions. I know I appreciate her work! Bethany Manderson Forester Weimaraners ...
Bethany
weims4bethany
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Sep 5, 2008
12:15 am

Hi Lynn, So you've read Temple's book, too! I'm still in the process of reading it. Very interesting reading! I keep switching between books and...
Lynn Stacey
lstace4
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Sep 2, 2008
6:58 pm
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